Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #1 - Falco

[Sails]

Matchup Ratio: EVEN​

Summary:​

When fighting Falco on the ground, expect him to use short hop lasers to space and camp. Another option he has is to run off the stage and jump back on while shooting extremely low lasers. When he cancels a laser in to the ground, he has the capability to instantly react out of it letting him get easy follow-ups from grounded laser hits. When you approach Falco, he will often SideB through you, so be aware that this is punishable by shielding it and throwing a banana at him afterwards. Falco has a DThrow chain-grab that he will use on you from 0% that ends at 43%, and he will be aiming for this at the beginning, so try to stay in the air. If you do get in to the grab, the general follow-up is to be spiked off the stage by his DAir, which you can SDI in to the stage to attempt staying on the stage. If you are pushed off the stage, recovery becomes much harder and you'll have to rely on mixups to recover. Remember that Falco has his DownB, his Reflector, which will send your Bananas back at you as well as hit you if you are close enough. His Reflector on its way back does no damage and can be crouched under leaving you capable to SideB through it or dash in, so make use of that if he fails a read Banana throw. Falco's Jab hits out on frame 2 making it an incredible interrupting move, and will also be used often.

Approaching Falco is dangerous from a far distance, but when you need to do it you'll have to play around reading him and dodging lasers. Try to bait the Reflector, attempt to throw Bananas where you think he's moving to, or bait his SideB and shield punish it. There's not a whole lot you can do especially without platforms, but it's not unbeatable. Try not to get frustrated and get the opening when it comes to you.

Be sure to keep Falco off-stage whenever possible, and be prepared for his SideB recovery which can be punished as said before. If Falco decides to or is forced to use his UpB for recovery, you can interrupt it during the initial charge-up animation with an attack, and even stage-spike him out of it if you hit him near the stage.

Falco will try and kill you with moves such as USmash/DACUS, UTilt, BAir, DAir for the spike, and even FSmash. Be on the look-out for these common kills, and the setups that follow them such as the short hop laser cancel to USmash/DACUS. Beyond the afformentioned setup, Falco has a hard time securing a kill, so be sure to play it safe when you are at higher perecentages and are ready to be killed.

This Matchup is Even, as both sides have the capability of shutting the other down equally. While Falco has a great camping and damage-wracking game, his approach is lackluster when shielded and he is highly readable when recovering. Diddy Kong can work his way around the camping with a solid approaching via Bananas, and has the tools to punish Falco when read, especially off-stage. The biggest disadvantage that Diddy Kong has is that securing the victory is very reliant on reads, and this means that learning the Matchup to its fullest is what keeps it out of Falco's advantage and in to the Even territory.

Stages to Utilize Against Falco:

Neutrals - Smashville, Battlefield
Counterpicks - Pokémon Stadium 1, Rainbow Cruise, Castle Siege
Bans - Final Destination, Halberd, Delfino

For more intricate help with this Matchup, please be sure to read the thread, and feel free to ask any questions not answered in it.​

[Collapse="Original Post for Posterity"]

We're starting the first week a little early, which should give everyone plenty of time to recognize the new Matchup Thread efforts, and rev up their debating gears. For the first week, we're discussing Falco. We've all had to deal with him, and many believe we've overcome what used to be one of our worst Matchups!​

It is important that you read this! Every first post by a user in a Matchup Thread is encouraged to have at least a couple of sentences of information, alongside a ratio. Posts may not be considered for ratio and summary solidifying without these from the poster at some point in the thread, and keeping them towards the beginning helps keep discussion tidy. You have one week (Until April 2nd in this specific case) to share information that you feel is helpful in the Matchup, as well as debate with others. Compelling arguments are a must people, I expect any joking and trolls to be at a minimum.

Ideas for discussion...

-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-Diddy's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-​

Note: This Matchup has been discussed in the past. If you wish to pull content from previous discussions that are still relevant in the current Metagame, then feel free to do so. This includes posts that are both yours and not yours.[/Collapse]

 

[Luigi player]

I'd say it's about even. Could be a small Diddy adv. maybe, not sure right now.


Against Falco on the ground:
Falco will most of the time just laser at you and sideB away, jab/ftilt, or grab you if you come near, or he might use his reflector if you have a banana in your hand.
If he uses his shdl you can duck the 2nd/falling laser if he isn't doing it properly. Or you can just powershield/shield the laser if it would hit you.
If you come near him always be aware that he can sideB through you instead of doing a shl again. So powershielding everything could make your movement predictable. That is really frustrating, but a bananathrow should be able to stop him, you just have to watch out for his reflector. If he doesn't use it just throw a banana to him and try to get something out of the techchase (maybe a grab to throw him offstage/up) etc.
At low % (0-40) you mostly have to watch out that you don't get grabbed, because Falco will get like 50% from the chaingrab which is really bad. He might also put you offstage unless you SDI really good back to the stage. Being offstage could lead to you getting gimped, so don't let him put you in that position. If he does pull it off and you're dair'd you can mash up on your controlstick IF YOU HAVE TAP JUMP ON, because then you'll be able to use your doublejump as soon as possible (if you do it with any other button and you press jump too early then there will be some time in which you can't jump again).
You should always have a banana behind you (or in front of you) so he can't get the full chaingrab/followups on you.

After you are above the chaingrab % a different phase begins.
His grabs won't be as rewarding as before which means you don't have to be as careful and can play a little more "risky".
Falco will jab most of the time and laser and sideB away from you.
(SDI his jabs (up/in) and if he doesn't shield/go away you will be able to hit him with an uair; be careful though, because he can predict that if you always do it and shield at the right time and punish your uair with a grab/something else)

Always be aware of his reflector (mostly if you have a banana) and punish it by either shielding the hit and then sideB him, or duck below the reflector (won't hit you) and dtilt him (hold diagonally down on controlstick (crawl up to him) and then press A to dtilt).
If you throw a banana at him and he reflects it you should be able to shield the banana most of the time if you don't try to dash at him...


Against Falco in the air:
Falco in the air is really annoying, because of his fast and long lasting, disjointed hitboxes (and because he moves really fast vertically). That doesn't mean he will always beat your aerials though... uair and bair/fair are like always pretty good, but most of the time you should just wait for him to land and then punish that. (or throw up bananas to him and then punish with aerials)
If you want to approach you can go on platforms or do it from the air too. But you should have a banana in your hand to protect you...

If you're in the air and fall down to Falco I wouldn't suggest airdodging to the ground, because he'll just wait for that most of the time and his fsmash is really evil with really big range is it's pretty strong. If you're falling down to him use fair/bair/whatever. Just don't leave yourself open to get fsmashed (or something else like a grab, depending on your %s).


General MU stuff:
What you want to do in the MU is get Falco in the air/offstage while you are on the ground. If the Falco is too far away from the edge and offstage he will most likely sideB to get back. This is a big part of the MU and you should always be careful and punish him for it. Most of the time that should be done by bananathrow(OOS)/glidetoss to follow-up. That isn't as easy as it sounds though, because if you aren't near enough to the edge he will just aim for the ledge instead. So you have to "mindgame" or predict him to be able to punish him.
If Falco is at the ledge he will jump back-sideB back to the stage nearly all the time, so be ready to punish that. (sometimes jabbing/grabbing at the edge can work, but be careful)

Maybe you can stand near the edge and at the right time sideB to the center of the stage and use the kick to hit Falco out of his sideB? Just something that came to my mind right now, but I can't really test it. If it works you can even hold a banana and after you kicked his sideB you should land and be able to punish him.
Falco has RCL (recovery carryover lag)/BSL (bull**** lag) if you hit him out of his sideB. That means if he lands the next time he will have more landinglag than usual so you have a very little bit more time to punish him.


If you're at KO-%s Falco will go for Usmash most of the time (sometimes bair if you're in the air). Which means you should have bananas around to protect you. And always watch out for the Bdacus.


As for stages I have no idea where to take Falco... SV always seemed good to me when I played them. Everyone bans FD against me so idk how it would be there.
So mostly I CP BF which I'm not too sure about how good it is... I camped on the top platform of BF before (while holding a banana) and avoided lasers/aerials and tried to punish some with the 'nana and stuff. Not sure how good this really is though lol.

I thought about CPs for this MU like Halberd:
-his laser won't hit if you're at the center
-he doesn't have as much space for his sideB
-recovering is maybe more difficult?

But I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because you're on the flat part for a long time where you can't duck his lasers and he has more space for his sideB.
You also can't approach from the air because of the long platform... and his usmash kills earlier...

I also thought about Frigate Orpheon, because you can probably always punish his sideB if he's hit offstage on the side with no ledge, but I think it's too risky, because if he get's a CG off if could mean death and he can also punish Diddys recovery if you're hit to right side... I also thought about the 2nd part of the stage. The center of it would be really strong (protection from lasers and stuff), but if Falco has it you have to watch out too. Everything goes both ways, so I'm really not sure. Idk about other stages either =/ delfino I thought would be risky too, because of his CG to spike and then the water.. ugh...

 

[Player-1]

I usually ban halberd against falcon because he kills sooner and and his CG to spike isn't as easy to SDI as usual since you'd have to SDI all the way to the stage to live instead of etching the ledge, frigate would be my 2nd ban for similar reasons plus he us absolutely ridiculously good on the second transformation. CP RC, ps1 and siege. He isn't that great on RC and PS1 and siege mess with his lasers. 2nd transformation of siege has high ceilings


Idk what youre talking about when you say falcon is annoying in the air... All of his approaching aerials get wrecked by ours. The only thing that can get annoying is his fair when trying to juggle him since it comes out so fast. Falcos that spam side b to get away either are stupid since it's so easy to punish with bananas or realize you're stupid because you're not doing it.

I'd say the MU is even

 

[Luigi player]

I usually ban halberd against falcon because he kills sooner and and his CG to spike isn't as easy to SDI as usual since you'd have to SDI all the way to the stage to live instead of etching the ledge, frigate would be my 2nd ban for similar reasons plus he us absolutely ridiculously good on the second transformation. CP RC, ps1 and siege. He isn't that great on RC and PS1 and siege mess with his lasers. 2nd transformation of siege has high ceilings


Idk what youre talking about when you say falcon is annoying in the air... All of his approaching aerials get wrecked by ours. The only thing that can get annoying is his fair when trying to juggle him since it comes out so fast. Falcos that spam side b to get away either are stupid since it's so easy to punish with bananas or realize you're stupid because you're not doing it.

I'd say the MU is even

u always say falcoN y?

And thanks I might try out PS1. I don't really like CS... RC, maybe... I don't really like any stages where bs can happen :\

You can punish his sideB easily? :\ Maybe I'm always going too near to him and should just wait for the sideB? I still don't think the banana would go far/fast enough to hit him...

 

[DFEAR]

-Both Characters Ground-
We obviously have the upper hand in control here the only thing that limits our movement would be falco's lasers but that can be easily avoided by either shielding or jumping around them. lasers are stupid dmg, you should not get hit by them. falco's approach game is quite solid in the fact that his jab is ridiculous, with sdi you can avoid jab links such as jab > grab. if you happen to get cg'd make sure to sdi towards the stage, if you get spiked off stage your stock can be at risk due to falco's bair/fair knocking us out of barrels. just sideb or jump away instead of vertically and recover like a pro. Reflector is easy, just sideb when you read it, heck you can even react to it, crawl underneath it, etc.
-Air Game Against Each Other-
fair him everytime he tries to sh laser, a falco has to dedicate when he sh/fh. when high above ground dont airdodge through him unless you are positive you will eat a move, by airdodging incorrectly you will eat an aerial. to prevent this just fair downwards, he is either 1. gonna get hit or 2. airdodge 3. avoid it 4. punish you. its about mixup when you're tryin to come back to the ground
-Moves To Avoid -
jab
nair
bair
lasers
tilts
-Diddy's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
tilts
sideb
fair
dash attack
bananas
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
Try to keep falco offstage and on the ledge as much as possible, its free dmg plus you can react to the sideb so you can either hit him out of his sideb or predict where he will land. upthrow and dthrow are my personal fav throws in this matchup due to falco's ff properties, he's forced to make a quick decision in order to land safely
-Stages-
ban your personal bad stage or halberd maybe delfino
counterpick your best stage or smashville, ps1, siege, lylat


matchup +0 really

 

[Sails]

I agree with most of the information already posted, but I will restate that punishing SideB is key to winning this matchup! Shield those Phantasms! This matchup is definitely even or very slightly in one or the others favor, which I haven't completely decided my opinion upon yet, because there is a catch.

This matchup requires a lot of skill and experience with the matchup, you need to be wary of everything Falco can do, because he is unconventional. Falco has an answer for everything at any time and at any range, options out of jab, out of grab, out of laser...The list goes on.

His UpB gimpability leaves him able to be shutdown, as well as proper avoidance and spacing with bananas leaving his multiple options cut down considerably. I still feel this is one of a Diddy players hardest matchups only because it takes possibly the longest out of all of Diddy's matchups to learn it efficiently and to make the matchup even.

 

[Player-1]

u always say falcoN y?

And thanks I might try out PS1. I don't really like CS... RC, maybe... I don't really like any stages where bs can happen :\

You can punish his sideB easily? :\ Maybe I'm always going too near to him and should just wait for the sideB? I still don't think the banana would go far/fast enough to hit him...

Typed it on myiphone and it autocorrects falco to falcon


Yeah just shield phantasm and ois glidetoss

 

[DFEAR]

you guys know how diddy has a choice of a selected few options to recover in certain areas off stage amirite?

well now imagine falco...he has to recover with sideb on the ledge or on the stage depending on where he is sent to with or without jumps, etc.

learn a pattern. force the upb. see the loss of midair jump. pretty much stock.

 

[Schwa]

I've got some pretty random stuff to say about this MU, but I'll still throw it out here.

For CP stages i prefer Lylat because of the fact that the stage moves, which can lead to Falco gettin gimped if they go under the stage with their sideB. The other one is Frigate in which you can punish Falco's ****ty recovery options on the right side of the stage during the first transformation, just throw them to the right and let them recover and punish their sideB with a naner. I’m not that sure about the second transformation though, it might be stronger for Falco.

Falco's reflector is easy to counter: use sideB to jump over it and grab, or dodge it by crawling under it and use D-tilt.

Peanuts can gimp Falco if you shoot one when they are recovering with sideB, they'll usually just panic and press sideB once more, which will lead to them missing the ledge.

 

[Sails]

Do we have anything that beats out Falco's DAir approach if they ever stupidly do it?

 

[VonDarkmoon]

Most likely a well space Fair, Bair or maybe even a Utilt/Ftilt could beat out the Dair approach, i do have to test it though, i just threw the ideas out there.

This is possibly one of my personal worst MUs. I usually have to go in and out because trying to stay in against falco doesn't really work. his Jab in general beats ours (unless i'm doing it wrong) and it really is just annoying to deal with. We'll lose close up jab/grab/sidestep fight since his options in those areas are just better than ours.

dont forget that standing/silent lazer will still hit us if we do duck the standard SHL/SHDL from falco. Along with the fact that a peanut or banana to his head while he phantasm's will knock him out of it.

 

[-Googs]

forward glide toss>DA>up tilt Bait airdodge>pivot grab>throw off stage is wonders at low % in this MU. I don't even think you need to bait the airdodge, if I time it right i don't think i've ever missed with this. When Falco is offstage, he's eating insane damage, you can punish Ghost Lag really well in this MU. If you throw falco off stage and he di's poorly, if you just charge a peanut they might jump into it, it's luzly. It's even better if they accidentally buffer their side b and SD under the stage. If falco side b's to the stage, WATCH him for ghost lag, it is punishable, jab>Grab becomes a true combo with landing lag, so is jab>dmash. Either way if he lands on stage you can punish with GT OoS and if he grabs the ledge you just have to wait for him to land and A LOT of falco's won't anticipate the carry over lag. seriously, Try jab>dsmash when they land, it's crazy good.

I find falco a really in and out MU, but if you have momentum don't stop. Once you finish at string, gtfo cause his jab is a *****. If you're playing a campy falco learn to power sheild and just walk towards him, most will side B and try to camp more, that's easily punished if you can powershield.... lol


If their spamming their reflector obviously just side b them, but that's old news.

This is one of my favourite MU's, and I think once diddy gains momentum it's really hard for falco to come back. It's all about stage control, and gimps really. If he up+b's a lot just dair him out of it, punish side b etc

 

[Tmacc]

I'll contribute what I know from my couple weeks of Diddy so far, and things about Falco in general. Sorry if it isn't helpful at all, I still have a ton ton ton to learn about Diddy:

Random thoughts
-When he is offstage, grabbing the ledge can do wonders. not only does this limit his options to side bing ONTO the stage. With Diddy's moveset, it is incredibly easy to punish him in this way. Think about it: we have been talking about punishing his phantasm onto stage with GT banana OOS etc...but in forcing him to go onto the stage by taking the ledge, if we are holding a banana, we can fall off ledge->jump back on->banana, quick enough to punish. This is great because it wasn't that he CHOSE to phantasm onto the stage in thie situation...we FORCED him to do it by taking the ledge and getting back on as soon as he commits to the stage. Just some general Falco MU knowledge that has worked well for me.

-As has been said, keeping a banana behind you early is critical. If he gets us offstage, we are in an awfully limited position. Falco's fair (yes, his FAIR!) is amazing here. Once we commit to an up b, his fair will go through it as we go up and he comes down, gimping us and hitting us down and out from the stage. It's something to be VERY wary of, and something to keep in mind when you decide where to begin your up b.

-Falco is a fast faller. Keep that in mind, and us Diddy's combo potential to followup on his fast fall speed.

-SDI jabs up and in, try to uair.

-Utilize Diddy's roll in this MU at low percents. It can help you reposition yourself around a banana to be in a safer position. It's all about avoiding the grab at that point (duh).

-As has been said, we can gimp his recovery with peanuts and a banana in hand. And remember, we can shield out of peanut popgun. A gimping option is shoot peanuts, watch for the phantasm onto the stage (he will think he can punish you), shield, banana GT.

-If Falco gets a banana, wait it out until he gets rid of it. Falco has some leathal combos with a banana, and can use it to position himself for a grab out of GT.

-Make him scared to reflector your bananas by punishing it with over b (as has been said, but it's very importnat to condition him not to reflector....like, really really important).

-We can kill him...Falco is light. Keep that in mind when deciding when to begin using your kill moves.

-Uthrow can be good. It puts Falco in an awful position, and with his fall speed, we can get some nice follow ups at low percents.

Stages don't know much here, don't have any experience in tournament with Diddy yet. But I'd assume RC, Delfino, Frigate, or even a neutral you are comfortable with are good, safe picks. I'd ban FD or SV, honestly. Don't waste a ban on Halberd imo, I doubt many will take you there, he has better stages, and he can gimp himself there is he messes up.

I think the MU is very even, from what I've seen and experienced.

 

[Player-1]

I'll contribute what I know from my couple weeks of Diddy so far, and things about Falco in general. Sorry if it isn't helpful at all, I still have a ton ton ton to learn about Diddy:

Random thoughts
-When he is offstage, grabbing the ledge can do wonders. not only does this limit his options to side bing ONTO the stage. With Diddy's moveset, it is incredibly easy to punish him in this way. Think about it: we have been talking about punishing his phantasm onto stage with GT banana OOS etc...but in forcing him to go onto the stage by taking the ledge, if we are holding a banana, we can fall off ledge->jump back on->banana, quick enough to punish. This is great because it wasn't that he CHOSE to phantasm onto the stage in thie situation...we FORCED him to do it by taking the ledge and getting back on as soon as he commits to the stage. Just some general Falco MU knowledge that has worked well for me.

i'll say 80% of the time if you're right next to the ledge while the falco is offstage they will go for the stage instead of the ledge, ESPECIALLY if it's the first time you put them in that poistion meaning you can punish with better things. When you punish them from the ledge them the best thing you'll be able to punish them is with a fair and that's only if they land close enough to you. If you're onstage and do it then you can fsmash/dsmash/grab.

 

[-Googs]

Landing lag

 

[Sails]

I would like to point out that today is the final day for finalizing this matchup thread! Around midnight tonight, all important information will be compiled and added to the first post and the next character will start promptly afterwards. If you have anything else you feel is important to note about this matchup that you would like to see possibly added to the first post, please do so before the day ends. This also counts for if you want your ratio opinion to be considered in the finalization.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

great post bro

 

[Sails]

Ding! First post has been updated, as has the main index! A new Matchup thread will be started shortly!

 

[Yikarur]

LP to your gigantic first post (which was a good read<3) one correction.
Falco does not have ANY disjointed aerial.

 

[Player-1]

orrly? I thought his dair was slightly disjointed, but I guess not. Hell I still don't get what disjointed means.

 

[Yikarur]

disjointed is a hitbox thats not part of the hurtbox like a sword. of course not only moves with a weapong are disjointed, Yoshis upair is disjointed as example o:

 

[Player-1]

Falco's lasers are used in the air and they are disjointed.


ban falco.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

uh oh that means that diddys peanuts are disjointed too

he better not get banned

 

[Luigi player]

LP to your gigantic first post (which was a good read<3) one correction.
Falco does not have ANY disjointed aerial.

Why do his aerials always have such good "priority" then? (talking about bair/dair)

Falcos dair/bair seem like they're really disjointed when the hitbox first comes out... (they beat so much ~_~)

 

[RoanYagyu]

Why do his aerials always have such good "priority" then? (talking about bair/dair)

Falcos dair/bair seem like they're really disjointed when the hitbox first comes out... (they beat so much ~_~)

I know D-air has a slight horizontal disjoint to it

 

[chimpact]

Bait him into using his reflector, shield it, and either grab him via side b or throw your banana up and grab him. Reflect only has a hitbox going out, but it still reflects stuff coming back.

 

[FelixTrix]

Diddy-Falco is in diddy's favor. 55-45. not by much, but we still have the advantage in this matchup. it definitely isn't 50-50 though.

 

[Vega4]

These are Felix's advises in Diddy vs Falco match-up:

For falco, pick a stage like battlefield for the first map. falco players generally love battlefield, so you can get away with it for your first map. stay on the platforms for the first 40% and keep your shield up a lot. try and get some bananas on the ground and use your side b after dropping through platforms.

If you get grabbed, then hold your control stick towards the opposite chaingrab falco is chaingrabbing you. when he does the spike, make a quarter circle on your control stick facing the stage, hit your c stick towards the stage, and press shield. This will cause you to SDI towards the stage and you will tech/roll away from falco. You can pretty much never die from a chaingrab unless the falco player spaces it perfectly, but even falcos like Larry can only do it sometimes.

from 50-100%, stay on the ground as much as possible. pull out bananas and don't be afraid to use dash-attack. it's amazing for comboing even if you only get two uptilts and an upair afterwards. bad falcos will try and down b you if you have a banana, so just shield and side b or down tilt. (learn how to dtilt with banana in hand). this is your main percent range to rack up as much damage as possible.

after 100% you're in kill range from upsmash, and unless you're back air'd in the air or already cg-spiked to your death, you won't get killed by anything else (unless by fsmash if you roll too much). run and shield as much as possible. only throw bananas to punish falco unless you have another nearby. You have an amazing advantage if you get the first kill because you can pretty much sit in shield and they can't do much because falco has the worst running grab range ever. you can also roll away because diddy has a good roll. shield - banana throw - dash attack combos. then repeat the steps from earlier.

Lastly, diddy has the best tools for punishing falco's recovery. peanuts when you get him off stage, bananas for if he is horizontal to you, and edgehog if he tries to side b to the ledge. or sometimes if you catch him out of side b he will try and side b again and you can get the edgehog. your side b kick, downtilt (if you're a ninja), and jab (if you're more of a ninja) will also go through side b, but bananas are the best option usually.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

If the Falco likes to Reflector a lot, dash towards him, sidestep and then do the F-smash while holding banana. Press and hold the attack button during the sidestep animation.

 

[Vega4]

If the Falco likes to Reflector a lot, dash towards him, sidestep and then do the F-smash while holding banana. Press and hold the attack button during the sidestep animation.

I'm sorry, what is sidestep in brawl?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

A spotdodge