Balanced Melee Project 2.0 -All your dreams are here!-

Itaru

MasterGanon
Premium
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
277
Location
日本 千葉県
#1

What you need
BM2.0 files
GCRebuilder
Dolphin
ISO, I can't link to the ISO.(I recommend 20XX hack pack)



How to made Balanced?


I know SDRemix and Scrumpy's viable series. But, I made Balanced Melee because I think...

1. We should respect Sakurai's character concepts.

2. We should apply "Balanced" to not only characters but also attacks.

3. There are many f**kin' attacks.(Luigi's Dash-A, Kirby's Side-B-Air and N-Air, Bowser's Down-Air, DK's Dash-A, Samus's Up-Smash, etc.)


So,

I didn't change character's mobility except Kirby, Pichu, YLink. (1, the above)
I changed damages with mathematics.(2, the above)
I replaced some animations. (3, the above)


And, I strengthen throw like SSB64

Weight 117 -> 120
Model scaling 0.69 -> 0.75
Jump start up lag 8->6
Jab1 5% -> 7%
Jab2 6% -> 10%
Dash Attack 11% -> 20%
Forward Tilt(High) 15% -> 20% Base Knock Back 29-> 20
Forward Tilt(Middle) 14% -> 19% Base Knock Back 25-> 20
Forward Tilt(Low) 13% -> 18% Base Knock Back 31-> 20
UpTilt 7frame -> 6frame 13% -> 16% BKB 40 ->30 IASA frames(interruptible as soon as frames) 50->30
DownTilt Step1 13%->10% BKB 15->20 KBG(Knock Back Growth) 100->10
DownTilt Step2 10%->12% KBG 100->80
Forward Smash 24%->32% BKB 30->45 KBG 100->90
UpSmash Step1 20%->24% BKB 40->45 KBG 86->90
UpSmash Step2 12%->18%
DownSmash 2x6+10%->2x6+18% KBG 140->100
NAir 13%->16% KBG 80->100
FAir 14%->19%
BAir 13%->18%
UpAir 17%->24% BKB 50->45 KBG 100->90
DAir Animation changed, 23% BKB 50 KBG 100
FThrow 10%->20% BKB 60->45 KBG 50->80
BThrow 10%->20% BKB 60->45 KBG 50->80
UpThrow 10%->20% BKB 0->46 KBG 100->145
DThrow 12%->20% BKB 75->46 KBG 30->145
NB 2%->3%
SideB Grab 11%->24% BKB 60->45 KBG 100->80
SideB Hit 12%->20% BKB 80->20 KBG 90->120
UpB Ground 13%->14%
UpB Air 10+3x5+2x5%->2x6+12% BKB 46 KBG 112
DownB 21%->26% BKB 45->50 KBG 72->100 Angle 76->45
Weight 109 -> 114
Short hop V initial velocity 2->1.7
Air Jump multiplier 0.95->0.964
Jab1 7% -> 9%
Dash Attack 14% -> 17%
Forward Tilt(High) 14% -> 18%
Forward Tilt(Middle) 13% -> 17%
Forward Tilt(Low) 12% -> 16%
UpTilt 81frames->76frames 27% -> 44% BKB 110->30
DownTilt 12%->19%
Forward Smash 22%->24% BKB 40->45 KBG 83->90
UpSmash Step1 22%->11% BKB 50->0 KBG 80->0
UpSmash Step2 19%->24% BKB 40->45 KBG 80->90
DownSmash Step1 8%->9%
DownSmash Step2 14%->21% BKB 60->45 KBG 100->90 Angle 120->90
NAir Step1 12%->10% BKB 30->0 KBG 100->0
NAir Step2 12%->14% BKB 50->30 Angle 45->70
FAir 17%->20%
BAir 16%->19%
UpAir 13%->16% BKB 35->30
DAir No change
FThrow 9%->15% BKB 45->44KBG 105->113
BThrow 9%->15% BKB 30->44KBG 130->113
UpThrow 7%->15%
DThrow 7%->15% BKB 75->76KBG 35->19 Angle 100->95
NB 34%->48% BKB 30->0KBG 100->80
SideB Ground 17%->20% BKB 60->58KBG 69->60
SideB Air 16%->20% KBG 65->100 Angle 70->291
UpB 17%->23% BKB40->47 KBG 82->91
DownB Ground 15%->18% BKB 60->40KBG 85->100
DownB Air 14%->22% KBG 80->100




What you need
Balanced and Turbo pack
GCRebuilder
Dolphin
(Pl**Aj Pack) You need this if you want to play Pl**Victory pose
ISO, I can't link to the ISO.


How to made Balanced?

I know SDRemix and Scrumpy's viable series. But, I made Balanced Melee because I think...

1. We should respect Sakurai's character concepts.

2. We should apply "Balanced" to not only characters but also attacks.

3. There are many f**kin' attacks.(Luigi's Dash-A, Kirby's Side-B-Air and N-Air, Bowser's Down-Air, DK's Dash-A, Samus's Up-Smash, etc.)


So,

I didn't change character's mobility except Kirby, Pichu, YLink. (1, the above)
I changed damages with mathematics.(2, the above)
I replaced some animations. (3, the above)


How to change Damage?

First, I made this.
AverageGrand.png

Attacks on Ground(A button attacks only and, except 2< hits attacks)
AverageAir.png

Attacks in air(A button attacks only and, except 2< hits attacks)

Blue is Average. Red is x1.2. Because, good attacks(not too strong, not too weak like knee or Falco's Side-Smash) are on red line.

This is base damage.



Second, I calculated damage in this way.(I separated Ground attacks and air attacks.)

Damage = base damage * multiplier * reach(Very long reach(-10%) or long reach(-5%) or middle or short(+5%) or very short(+10%))

multiplier = (Frame deviation value + IASA deviation value + Aerial max speed deviation value + jump start up lag deviation value)/4

Frame deviation value is deviation value of sum of frames of character's attacks.(A button attacks only)

IASA deviation value is the same as Frame deviation value.

Here is excel spread sheet.


Examples.
Kirby's SideB 23%
Bowser SideSmash 32%
DK SideB 23%
Ganon's F-Air 20%
Mario's meteor 18%

Others.

You can meteor cancel from end of hitlag 8 -> 6
Max number of frames of hitlag 20 -> 30
reflected projectiles damage multiplier 0.5 -> 2
tech dead window (cannot tech for 40 frames after performing a tech) 40 -> 20
 
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Dr. D

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
10
Location
Charlotte, NC
#2
Wow I am so happy that you've made turbo! Is there a way to make just vanilla melee turbo as well? I will definitely be downloading this and playing it tonight.

Also, is it balanced, or balanced + turbo, or is there a way to toggle in game?
 

PikaSwag

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
16
#3
I have a problem installing turbo mode.
i downloaded it, extractet the ISO root with GCrebuilder, inserted the turbo and balanced files into it and then i rebuilt it.
i loaded the iso but it doesn't seem to work, did i do something wrong?
 
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Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
141
#6
Should I be using the SD Remix rebuild from source guide as the basis for remaking this iso? Or is there a different method?

Edit: SD Remix method worked.
 
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Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,630
#7
balanced melee?!

looks more like melee minus to me :rotfl:

looks fun either way
 

Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
141
#9
any toturial on how to build the iso?
If you check the SD remix website, they have a guide for rebuilding an iso from source files, basically follow that, but with these new source files instead of SD remix.
 

TheDylantula

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
5
Location
Missouri
NNID
TheDylantula
#10
If you check the SD remix website, they have a guide for rebuilding an iso from source files, basically follow that, but with these new source files instead of SD remix.
Do we need to rename the files that have things like "(You need to rebuild)" in the file name?
 

Blueberry Kong

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
200
Location
Toronto, Ontario
NNID
DKbill
#13
It is SO easy for modders to get carried away with buffs. It can be a lot of fun designing and making them, that's what gives you the joy to make them but in my personal opinion (and I believe many others would agree) that I would LOVE to have a "balanced Melee" where lower tier characters are changed MINIMALLY. Remember the guy who "cheated" by using as modded memory card that buffed Pichu? The players didn't even REALIZE at the time that Pichu was buffed. That's how LITTLE he was changed but it was still SOO effective at balancing it. Changing all the movesets and giving everyone crazy kills throws and kill moves is overdoing it imo. Very well done project though, I would like to see one that involves only the slightest of changes solely to refine the game we already love so dearly
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,630
#14
It is SO easy for modders to get carried away with buffs. It can be a lot of fun designing and making them, that's what gives you the joy to make them but in my personal opinion (and I believe many others would agree) that I would LOVE to have a "balanced Melee" where lower tier characters are changed MINIMALLY. Remember the guy who "cheated" by using as modded memory card that buffed Pichu? The players didn't even REALIZE at the time that Pichu was buffed. That's how LITTLE he was changed but it was still SOO effective at balancing it. Changing all the movesets and giving everyone crazy kills throws and kill moves is overdoing it imo. Very well done project though, I would like to see one that involves only the slightest of changes solely to refine the game we already love so dearly
minimal changes are not ever going to make the bottom tier characters balanced in any meaningful way. Scrumpy clearly didn't buff bowser enough to the point of viability, and I don't think SDR did so either. Sure SDR minimized some of his weaknesses but its very clear that bowser is still not very viable. if you want minimal changes plus a balanced cast, you are never going to be happy because you cannot have both for the bottom of bottom tier.

and that pichu guy was playing players that were obviously not very experienced with the game. pichu's nair outright beating sheik's BAIR is not subtle nor effective either
 

KeeblerPie

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
1
#15
What the duck? Why aren't there any Ness changes?!

Itaru pls. I gave you my trust

But you failed me
 
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xed122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
62
#17
If you check the SD remix website, they have a guide for rebuilding an iso from source files, basically follow that, but with these new source files instead of SD remix.
I will check it out thanks!
 
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Spurdo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
134
#20
this looks like yet another mod where everyone is balanced around the like, the top 5 and made absurdly powerful, you didn't even try to hide it. Not every single character needs like 200 different death moves and combos guy

It is SO easy for modders to get carried away with buffs. It can be a lot of fun designing and making them, that's what gives you the joy to make them but in my personal opinion (and I believe many others would agree) that I would LOVE to have a "balanced Melee" where lower tier characters are changed MINIMALLY. Remember the guy who "cheated" by using as modded memory card that buffed Pichu? The players didn't even REALIZE at the time that Pichu was buffed. That's how LITTLE he was changed but it was still SOO effective at balancing it. Changing all the movesets and giving everyone crazy kills throws and kill moves is overdoing it imo. Very well done project though, I would like to see one that involves only the slightest of changes solely to refine the game we already love so dearly
you see this dude has the right idea
 
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ThatsBullocks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
148
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You Ess Eh
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BullockDS
#22
this looks like yet another mod where everyone is balanced around the like, the top 5 and made absurdly powerful, you didn't even try to hide it. Not every single character needs like 200 different death moves and combos guy
Maybe it's to avoid the same unholy temper tantrums that people threw when Fox got his nerfs in PM 3.6 Beta. :p
 
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Goodly

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
4
#23
This is very frustrating. Can someone make an actual tutorial to install this? I've tried using SD remix's tutorial for creating an iso from source, but it leads me to a dead dropbox link for a tool that is supposedly necessary.
 

Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
141
#24
Are you talking about GCR? Because it's not very difficult to google "Gamecube Rebuilder". Come on, if you want to try and do something you have to take initiative. After all,

If you're still too lazy there's a version of gcr rebuilder on the romhacking website.

Edit: If you were wondering, yes the utilities on the dropbox actually was basically gcr rebuilder.
 
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Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
141
#25
Since I don't want people to ask how to use the newer version of GCR (That SD remix guide is slightly dated) Here is how to do it with the new version I just linked.

1. First get your version of melee NTSC 1.02 which you totally have legally, and open it under image at the top of GCR.
2. Export the root into any folder by going to the right side and scrolling to the top and right clicking the little disk that says "root" and clicking export.
3. Put the files from the source files Itaru linked into the now exported root folder.
4. Go back to GCR rebuilder, and this time select the top right tab, "root" and open the root files you just made.
5. Go back to root and select save, and choose where you want the iso saved to.
6. Select rebuild and it will create the file you just saved.

You're done!
 

Spurdo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
134
#26
Maybe it's to avoid the same unholy temper tantrums that people threw when Fox got his nerfs in PM 3.6 Beta. :p
that's not even the worst of it. Melee fans went insane over Magicscrumpy's nerfed version of Fox for his take on a balanced Melee, it seems nobody can agree on how Fox could be nerfed, or if he should. I know that Melee has been out for like 15 years and Fox is famous for his monstrosity of a skill ceiling but the typical reaction to putting the words "nerf" and "Fox" in the same sentence is completely absurd.

the fact of the matter is that Fox, and the the other top tiers, when played well, is significantly better than a majority of the cast even when they are being played well, (and additionally have several ridiculous quirks like the shine) and that in order for the rest to shine like he does he needs to be a weaker character. and unfortunately the solution isn't making the entire game a Brawl Minus Project M SD Remix Balanced Melee Marvel vs Capcom mess
 

Goodly

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
4
#27
edit: Posts showed up while I made this one. Thanks for the help. :D
 
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Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
141
#28
They're basically the same thing, and the istructions I gave are also basically the same thing. Just follow them, in order to extract the iso, just right click the root and select extract.
 

Goodly

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
4
#29
Yes, your instructions were extremely helpful. I did already have the rebuilder but I was not aware that it was just a newer version.

Edit: unfortunately the iso is not running. Do I need to leave out any files from the balanced melee download, like the (You need to rebuild) ones?
 
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Itaru

MasterGanon
Premium
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
277
Location
日本 千葉県
#34
Does this work with Console emulators? (I.E. Nintendon't)
I gave up installing DIOS MIOS. So Idk. sorry. But, probably you can.


I really like that Ganon F smash. How did you code his sword for that?
Home run bat animation(I used animation swapping with CrazyHand for this) + model mod command(melee syntax)

CrazyHand: https://smashboards.com/threads/crazy-hand-v1-31-character-editing-program.389500/

melee syntax: https://smashboards.com/threads/new-melee-syntax-school-you-can-write-character-commands-now.402587/
 

The Cape

Smash Master
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
4,478
Location
Carlisle, PA
#35
I gave up installing DIOS MIOS. So Idk. sorry. But, probably you can.



Home run bat animation(I used animation swapping with CrazyHand for this) + model mod command(melee syntax)

CrazyHand: https://smashboards.com/threads/crazy-hand-v1-31-character-editing-program.389500/

melee syntax: https://smashboards.com/threads/new-melee-syntax-school-you-can-write-character-commands-now.402587/
I actually figured much of that out already after I asked. What is the ID for the sword?
 

easyaspi314

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
16
#37
Hey Itaru, could you possibly make a plain and simple change list like SDR did?

This looks really interesting! I am sure this did a better job at balancing Kirby, unlike Scrumpy, which while I liked his approach, basically gave Kirby Jigglypuff's air game, which he didn't need, while also improving his already decent ground game.

And don't get me started on SD Remix. I love how much effort they put in to it, but whenever I play as Kirby, or against Kirby, this is basically what I think. I'd rather play as PAL Kirby, similarly to how I prefer playing Jigglypuff in 64 over Kirby.
 

The Cape

Smash Master
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
4,478
Location
Carlisle, PA
#38
Hey Itaru, could you possibly make a plain and simple change list like SDR did?

This looks really interesting! I am sure this did a better job at balancing Kirby, unlike Scrumpy, which while I liked his approach, basically gave Kirby Jigglypuff's air game, which he didn't need, while also improving his already decent ground game.

And don't get me started on SD Remix. I love how much effort they put in to it, but whenever I play as Kirby, or against Kirby, this is basically what I think. I'd rather play as PAL Kirby, similarly to how I prefer playing Jigglypuff in 64 over Kirby.
Out of curiosity, what would make Kirby good, but fair?
 

easyaspi314

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
16
#39
Out of curiosity, what would make Kirby good, but fair?
Well a lot of Kirby's issues arise from his speed, but he also suffers from bad hitbox placement, high risk, low reward moves, and an overall lack of reliable KO power. Again, some of those are his traits, so I will keep some.

I am going to start with his PAL buffs as a base.
Obviously, I am not using math for this, just general thought.
  • Give him some decent air mobility. I will match it to Ness (same voice actress, same creator, same air speed). This greatly improves his recovery and aerial approach without making him too fast. (In Scrumpy's version, Kirby could backwards Final Cutter from the revival platforms in FD and kill himself).
  • Kirby's largest change is that I will change his fall speed and gravity to be a scaled-for-Melee version of Brawl's. Kirby's above average fast fall speed, average fall speed, and low gravity is the reason why Brawl Kirby is the combo king. (same applies for 64) This will make him easier to combo, but it will make him more capable of chasing opponents vertically and dealing with juggle campers. (Because are you REALLY going to use Down+B?)
  • Give him an actual short hop. Doesn't have to be phenomenal, just a tad shorter. This, in addition to his new fall speed, will give him a decent SHFFL.
  • Remove his L-cancel hitbox on his dair. There is a chance that it might be a bit…useful?
  • Readjust the hitbox on his forward smash to completely cover his toe, even when late. I am tempted to make it stronger, but I will not. Instead, it will be an edgeguarding/clanking tool that isn't super vulnerable to getting "hitbox poked". Seriously. This hitbox is BAD. Additionally, let's cover his toes on his bair as well.
  • Give his fair the SDR hitbox placement/timing and 2 less frames of end lag.
  • The largest change aside from his mobility is that I will make his up air have a juggling hitbox at the start where his feet are in front of him (he has no hitbox until his feet are above him in vanilla).The juggling hitbox will do 7% and will have knockback kind of like Pichu's. But there is a catch. I will make the animation faster (Brawl speed), but in trade, the kill hitbox will be timed like his semispike in PM and deal 12% instead of 15%. This will make it a reliable juggle move, and in specific scenarios, can land a KO. The main reason I did this is because Kirby has an awful blind spot at about 2 o' clock, forcing him to waste a jump and fair.
  • Just like Scrumpy did, I will have his throws slightly harder to break out of.
  • Give Final Cutter a hitbox for the entire duration of the move. One of the reasons that Kirby is so easy to hit out of FC is because he has no hitbox for most of the rising part and halfway on the falling part. The move will still suck like is neutral B (get it?), but at least he has something.
  • IDK if it is possible, but I would make up throw land on platforms like it should have (I honestly believe this was an unintentional glitch).
  • D-throw deals damage each stomp like SDR.
Kirby's lack of reliable kill power will still be a thing, but his weaknesses will be toned down.

I am aiming for Scrumpy's Mario viability.

If we are looking for Marth viability, I would:
  • Make Final Cutter a weak spike and make the hits link better.
  • Make his f-smash like SSB4 in terms of speed and power.
  • Down+B is more like 64 and breaks shields.
  • Make the sourspots on up smash and grounded Hammer harder to hit and not suck.
  • Make Copy abilities impossible to lose.
  • Brawl aerial Hammer.
  • Make d-smash always semi-spike.
  • Down throw has KB more like SDR.
  • Kirby doesn't lose his jumps after Final Cutter and his throws.
  • Scrumpy's "Making Kirby Overpowered" nair.
  • 4 frame bair instead of 5.

Idk. I always prefered the idea of everyone being mid tier instead of high tier. There is a lot of brokenness in the top 7, and while, yes, Marth is one of the more balanced top tiers (lack of KO setups at high percents is a BRILLIANT weakness), his stupid range, dair, chain grabs (don't get me started on Sheik), are all pretty overpowering. Granted, a lot of the balancing helped in PAL.

At least Marth doesn't have blue hexagons of death and those irritating lasers.

--------------

Update: Finally got GCRebuilder to work (very picky in Wine). Here are my first impressions.
  • Kirby is too fast in the air.
  • He still is super slow on the ground.
Kirby has always been a ground character. Kirby uses his deceptively hard to punish roll, good spotdodge, low crouch and low wavedash to evade and punish with a down tilt or a grab, both of which are high tier. Once he disrupts his opponent, he starts his combo. Watch some of Triple R's matches and you will see what I mean.
"One does not simply wavedash into a crouching Kirby."
—Me, to a Luigi that kept stupidly wavedashing into my down tilts.​
  • Kirby's nair…while it is nice to have an f-tilt in the air, his nair has been a balancing thing. One of the reasons that Kirby is #2 in SSB64 is because of his up air (what becomes his nair in later games). He can't deal with pressure from above in midair because he doesn't have a reliable up air to hit them with. Pikachu doesn't have this weakness, so it is #1. Plus, that move is an amazing taunt. Additionally, his fair does pretty much the same job.
  • While the new aerial Hammer is awesome (MAX STYLE), Kirby is already very proficient at edgeguarding and doesn't need a third meteor. Brawl Hammer would've been better, assuming his up air was nerfed (so Kirby doesn't have too many kill options in the air). Also, what is this hitbox? I can only come up with a few hitboxes in vanilla that are larger than that, that aren't from ones with a huge sword, and are disjointed from their animation.
  • You fixed Final Cutter's hitbox placement (THANK YOU!) but 26% and a ridiculous meteor is too much. The 64 days are over.
  • Up air hitboxes were fixed, but forward smash and bair still don't cover his toes.
  • 2% and about as much knockback as Mario's third jab for a late dash attack?!
  • Stone also shouldn't do more than 20% and shouldn't kill under 80%. If it did, it shouldn't be cancelable and shouldn't have super armor. But then you remove Stone's purpose.
  • Grounded Hammer: So far I like it in terms of the sweetspot, but the sourspot should still be a thing.
MOAR UPDATE: A few other notes for other characters:
  • Ganondorf does waaaaaaaay too much damage IMO. I know it is math, but reads like that are not as hard as they seem. Especially because his stomp is fast and kills shields.
    • 44% from a Punch?
    • 34% OHKO near the edge from a taunt?
    • I think Ganondorf breaks his ankle when he runs. :p
  • The only one who should have a damaging taunt is Luigi. You just took away his unique trait.
  • If Ganondorf and Samus and whoever else get attack taunts, Young Link should at least heal in his taunt.
  • LOL, Fox's up smash is cute. "Ha!"
  • Ness' Yo-Yo Glitch.
  • Is it just me, or is Pichu slower
    • 25% from forward smash is silly.
    • I accept the increased damage from Skull Bash. If someone legitimately falls for that, I want to see it.
  • In the air, you can do 13% from a Hookshot, 14% from Grapple and 16% from a Clawshot (which reaches 1/4 the length of FD). Which they can do from an air dodge. Invincibility frames + any directional movement + 16% damage > helpless fall and 30 frames of landing lag. Low risk, high reward. Link suddenly became Indiana Jones.
  • Link does 17% from his up tilt. Kirby's infamous up tilt from 64 did 14%.
That's all for now. I will keep updating this the more I test this out.
 
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