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Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

gmBottles

Fun Haver
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
6,002
Location
Fairhope, AL
NNID
komfyking
I haven't played Jigglypuff in months and I randomly played her a few days ago and I went in. I think I'm back to maining Puff, or at least experimenting for a while.

And the Puff boards are dead. Sup guys :drflip:
 

Puphmaster

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
11
Location
Midwest
Can anyone help me with the Puff Vs Marth MU I don't know how to approach without getting completely wrecked and only getting in like 3 hits. I understand that some people think that puff wins this but in my experience it is slightly in marths favor. So any tips on the approach?
 

Stitch4

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
58
Location
Utah
Can anyone help me with the Puff Vs Marth MU I don't know how to approach without getting completely wrecked and only getting in like 3 hits. I understand that some people think that puff wins this but in my experience it is slightly in marths favor. So any tips on the approach?
It really is just a spacing battle. Get good at spacing SHFFL bairs. You can use a full hop nairs as a mix up if the marth gets used to shielding your bairs, and then you can do other stuff once you are in on his shield. Just make sure you land behind him with the nair. Any time he smashes your shield, you jump out and just rest him. It's a free rest every time. It even works against his up tilt as well. Get good at crouching as well. if he tries to fair you, you can crouch cancel into a punish (grab or fsmash, or rest if he misses the l cancel), and if he tries to grab you while you are crouching thats a free rest as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80QHoWe2xQY is a good set to study for this matchup.
 

TAG$

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
113
Location
Sierra Vista
It is actually very tough for Marth, I think Marth is very limited to what he can do and puff can easily take the space away from him. This matchup is mostly about good spacing and staying patient. You need good di against Marth and reaction or knowledge of Marths grab game since Marth can get grab Fsmash combos on puff which is very pivotal in who retains a lead and who wins the matchup staying grounded in a crouch is very good like the above comment mentioned is a very good thing to do because of the crouch cancel rest option you have against Marth. Combos I think are awesome and fun to do in this matchup are neutral to Fsmash because it can lead to an easy gimp on Marth if your able to get him off stage with it. Utilizing pound is also a great tool because it has a lot of combo potential just throw it out there and see what you can get out of it. Also be very wary of Marths uptilt being above Marth is never a good thing.
 

ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
Has anyone had to deal with people not playing you/not playing serious in friendlies since you play puff? I play only puff because its my favorite and never gets old to me. also I've never practiced any other character so I am laughably bad with others. When playing friendlies at my first tourney people would switch characters like every other game and I'd stay puff. They would only play a few times and then quit and go look for someone else to play even when all other setups were full. Also my friends who have played longer and are much better complain that puff makes games slow and boring and constantly pester me to switch to falco. They hate puff so much that when we watch tourneys whenever hbox comes up they all groan and go do something else. I'm almost about to cave in and switch to falco even though I think dair>shine ad nauseum is so boring to play. What is the solution to this?
 

ThatOneGuyLucas

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
9
Location
Bennett, Colorado
ZipZopZoop this is a problem every puff faces. People yell at us for "camping," slowing down the game, etc. Hbox was even one of the most hated players just because he played a patient puff. It all depends on if you're serious about playing the character. Caving in, and switching mains due to the hate is not what puff players are all about. There really isn't a way to stop the hate, just play the best you can and work your hardest to beat your opponent, (Or go the Mang0 route and play an insanely aggresive puff.) Honestly, i don't quite understand the hatred that puff gets, but that should by no means cause you to switch characters. People I play with have actually grown to respect my puff as I adapted to their playstyles, and now can beat them consistently. Just work hard and prove them wrong :D
 

gmBottles

Fun Haver
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
6,002
Location
Fairhope, AL
NNID
komfyking
Has anyone had to deal with people not playing you/not playing serious in friendlies since you play puff? I play only puff because its my favorite and never gets old to me. also I've never practiced any other character so I am laughably bad with others. When playing friendlies at my first tourney people would switch characters like every other game and I'd stay puff. They would only play a few times and then quit and go look for someone else to play even when all other setups were full. Also my friends who have played longer and are much better complain that puff makes games slow and boring and constantly pester me to switch to falco. They hate puff so much that when we watch tourneys whenever hbox comes up they all groan and go do something else. I'm almost about to cave in and switch to falco even though I think dair>shine ad nauseum is so boring to play. What is the solution to this?
Play whoever you want, especially if they are your best and favorite character. If people are gettin salty over your character, that's their problem. Don't worry about what others think you should do, what matters is what you want to do.
 
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ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
Yeah I knew of the hbox hate but people say its from his ledgegrabbing and they say he stalls. Because of this I make sure I'm not on the ledge much but people still complain anyways. People call puff campy but really from what I've seen puff is forced to camp or rush by lasers/needles. When I play my friends they always beat me but I'm the one who always has to approach and play aggressive or they spam range attacks for 8 minutes. Its stupid and this attitude and double standard really makes me mad.

Also I would agree that it is all who I like and am best with but my friends are my main practice partners and they are the main whiners as well so if I want practice I kinda have to get them to play with me. I really enjoy puff and have practiced rest setups for hours and made real improvements for the short time I've played but over time my friends complain about it more and more and actually quit playing their best against me and pick their secondaries/tertiary characters and random low tiers. They are good enough they beat me anyways but really how will fighting pichu or g&w help me improve much and learn mu's I'm bad at?

In the tourney I played a few friendlies with some of the top players in my area and they were all super nice and when they'd switch and I'd say sorry puff is all I play they were totally cool with it. It was all the mid/low level players who would quit and complain regardless of if they won or lost. Just something I find interesting.
 

gmBottles

Fun Haver
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
6,002
Location
Fairhope, AL
NNID
komfyking
Sounds like your friends are just assholes

Mine are too so I feel your situation. Back when I mained Puff I dealt with the same thing. Just power through it, when you get better and you can start being real competition to them, they'll probably stop complaining. If they don't just call Johns lmao

Also if you don't want them playing off-characters and to focus on their mains, tell them!
 

ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
I have told them. I told them from when they first got me into smash and I wasnt sure what I wanted to main. They play basically every character and so I asked them to always play their hardest and only use their best characters because I thought that would help me improve fastest and they main some of my worst mu's so it is great for my practice. They agreed but lately they just say then don't play puff when I say to play for real when they select a joke character.

But thanks for the advice guys. I think maybe I will try to pick up a nonpuff on the side so that I can make them happy and maybe they will play for real when I use puff the other half of the time.
 
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ThatOneGuyLucas

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
9
Location
Bennett, Colorado
Seems like you just have some bad friends :/ My friends are trying to get better at the game, so I'll play my best and during the match tell them what they're doing wrong, so as to improve their play. You might just want to play with other local players in your region and get advice from them instead.
 

ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
Well they are cool guys most of the time. I guess puff hate in melee just brings out the worst in people. I'm sure them being rabid supporters of "mangonation" doesn't help either.
 

ThatOneGuyLucas

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
9
Location
Bennett, Colorado
It's funny to me because I'm a Mang0 fan, but I play puff haha. What Mang0 fans need to realize is that he used to main puff and really only hates Hbox because he's so campy.
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
Also I would agree that it is all who I like and am best with but my friends are my main practice partners and they are the main whiners as well so if I want practice I kinda have to get them to play with me. I really enjoy puff and have practiced rest setups for hours and made real improvements for the short time I've played but over time my friends complain about it more and more and actually quit playing their best against me and pick their secondaries/tertiary characters and random low tiers. They are good enough they beat me anyways but really how will fighting pichu or g&w help me improve much and learn mu's I'm bad at?
It sounds a little like they're using low tiers because they're better than you, and not necessarily because you're playing puff. Did they actually say that the reason they're sandbagging is puff? I have a feeling that switching mains won't necessarily help your situation. Try framing it to them in terms of helping them learn the puff MU, maybe they'll change their minds.

Also I'd be willing to bet that not all of them hate puff and some are just bandwagoning. If you can find one or two of them who are willing to play seriously with you, approach them individually and just play them apart from the group. The others don't even have to know.
 

ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
It sounds a little like they're using low tiers because they're better than you, and not necessarily because you're playing puff. Did they actually say that the reason they're sandbagging is puff? I have a feeling that switching mains won't necessarily help your situation. Try framing it to them in terms of helping them learn the puff MU, maybe they'll change their minds.

Also I'd be willing to bet that not all of them hate puff and some are just bandwagoning. If you can find one or two of them who are willing to play seriously with you, approach them individually and just play them apart from the group. The others don't even have to know.
Yeah well they weren't happy when I chose puff as a main but didn't really express it until they ran out of patience for it I think. I've been playing puff 100% of the time because everyone else I talked to said to focus only on one character and maybe just get a max of one side character after I played a while and got decent. Thing is that some of my friends don't really have mains. A couple just play like 3-5 characters almost equally and even then have some low tiers they use a lot for fun. So I feel like it is the hate of puff combined with frustration that I never change characters unless we do like a drinking game where you are required to random it. The ones with actual mains they use a lot don't seem to really mind it as much.

Like I said when I asked them to use real characters they only said you don't have to be puff and they half joking half serious talk about how annoying/boring etc. puff is. Thing is that I can't play any other character at a decent level and even if I did it wouldn't improve my puff game so its not enjoyable or worthwhile for me to switch and never really learn a character just because they don't like puff.

Its like they are comfortable with their level of skill and don't care that I am trying to improve and that switching to random characters won't help me get there. They never give the other guys that use their mains a lot any crap. So maybe wasting some of my practice time learning a secondary will make it less boring for them.
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
Yeah well they weren't happy when I chose puff as a main but didn't really express it until they ran out of patience for it I think. I've been playing puff 100% of the time because everyone else I talked to said to focus only on one character and maybe just get a max of one side character after I played a while and got decent. Thing is that some of my friends don't really have mains. A couple just play like 3-5 characters almost equally and even then have some low tiers they use a lot for fun. So I feel like it is the hate of puff combined with frustration that I never change characters unless we do like a drinking game where you are required to random it. The ones with actual mains they use a lot don't seem to really mind it as much.

Like I said when I asked them to use real characters they only said you don't have to be puff and they half joking half serious talk about how annoying/boring etc. puff is. Thing is that I can't play any other character at a decent level and even if I did it wouldn't improve my puff game so its not enjoyable or worthwhile for me to switch and never really learn a character just because they don't like puff.

Its like they are comfortable with their level of skill and don't care that I am trying to improve and that switching to random characters won't help me get there. They never give the other guys that use their mains a lot any crap. So maybe wasting some of my practice time learning a secondary will make it less boring for them.
Its a pretty sucky situation, but at least you have practice partners. Try to learn the mid tier MUs and develop strategies for beating them- you'll probably need to this eventually anyway. Yeah you'll be less experienced in common MUs, but you can definitely apply the things that you learn from fighting a mid tier to fighting a top tier. Once you get to the point where you consistently beat their secondaries, they're bound to start using their mains again. In the meantime, try to make the most of tournaments and don't play them in friendlies if there is someone else there willing to take you seriously.

A large amount of puff skill comes from neutral game, so this can be a good testing ground for spacing just outside of their ranges, and its easier to keep track of their available options (Since they have less). Basically, just try to make the best of it.
 

DD_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
371
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hey Crew is there a Skype or Discord chat for Puff? The facebook group is pre good just lookin for more places to discuss Jiggs
 

gmBottles

Fun Haver
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
6,002
Location
Fairhope, AL
NNID
komfyking
Hey Crew is there a Skype or Discord chat for Puff? The facebook group is pre good just lookin for more places to discuss Jiggs
There is a Skype group, but unfortunately I can't really add you to it at this moment because all I have is my phone, and I don't have room for Skype. If you post your name in the thread hopefully someone in there can add you, or I will get to it as soon as I can.
 

52_Gunthan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
5
Somebody on netplay just told me "ccing is the worst thing a puff can do." He didnt tell me why, he just disconnected. Is this true, and if so, why?
 

ZipZopZoop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
22
Does anyone have any tips on how to do platform techchase rest? Usually if I upthrow under a platform I can't get anything out of it because I feel like I can't get there fast enough when I'm trying to react to their techroll. I'm only able to get them on the bounce if they don't tech. Or does it just require a hard read of which way they will tech? So far all I'm able to do in time is hit them with a quick aerial and I can barely get there in time for that.
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
Does anyone have any tips on how to do platform techchase rest? Usually if I upthrow under a platform I can't get anything out of it because I feel like I can't get there fast enough when I'm trying to react to their techroll. I'm only able to get them on the bounce if they don't tech. Or does it just require a hard read of which way they will tech? So far all I'm able to do in time is hit them with a quick aerial and I can barely get there in time for that.
On larger platforms like DL it does kinda have to be a read (A soft read though, since you can cover like half of their options), but on smaller plats you can totally react.

You can even set up tech traps so that they can't tech at all.
 

Villainy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
66
I've seen hbox double jump after an up throw in to rest. is this the best way to do it? I usually single jump, but I'm not as consistent as I would like to be.
 

Low5_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
93
Location
Bothell, WA
It is completely dependent on percent. At higher percent, you throw higher and in some cases, you can only hit the rest before they are out of hitstun if you double jump. In most cases though, you only need to single hop.

Personally, in cases where I want to rest a certain direction (wall or tech-able structure on one side) I use the second jump to position myself between myself and the structure, resting them away from it. You can still position yourself with a single hop, I just find it a little easier to be consistent with.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
I can do it consistently, and no I do not do it. The opponent can literally beat that strategy by getting hit.
oh i should have clarified. i meant from the stage. there's a certain range where you can go straight to ledge. yes, it's beaten quite easily as a recovery.
 
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