Bad Ledge Options?

[flyboy__]

Why do Armada/Kzhu always do that crappy drop -> double jump backwards -> regrab ledge? Why don't they just drop -> up-b to refresh invincibility?

 

[GhostM]

I feel like the reason why they do that is to add options when going out of ledge, but would have safer options rather than just doing the drop to up-b refresh since they can get ledge hogged.

 

[flyboy__]

I feel like the reason why they do that is to add options when going out of ledge, but would have safer options rather than just doing the drop to up-b refresh since they can get ledge hogged.

Maybe but it's not like they gain height, invincibility or really any options. I guess you can fair, but you'd drop so far from the lag of the move that you wouldn't even be able to regrab with up b. It really seems like dated technology unless you have float. I've also learned today that Up B has a pretty mediocre sweetspot, but then again it does put out a decent hitbox.

 

[CAUP]

There is reason for stalling without the up b. That's usually how I do it.

Basically it comes down to remaining ambiguous and keeping your options open. If you are eventually going to come up from ledge, peach can either do some standard ledge option, which are all not super good, especially over 100%, or she can double jump from ledge to try to get to stage. Or she can air dodge but that's not super common. If you want to mix up your opponent, you don't want to telegraph what option you are going to choose. If you do the stall with the up b, and they see you suddenly interrupt the stall with a double jump, they know you are likely to be about to come on stage with a double jump. If your stall consists of low double jumps which allow you to barely make it on stage if you want to, every on of your double jumps in your stall is a potential mixup to land on stage. So the double jump stall is more ambiguous.

It also keeps your options open more. If you commit to the up b stall, and your opponent quickly wave dashed to ledge, you are just dead. Instead, I think it is better to do the double jump stall. If your opponent wave dashes to ledge, you can either react and up b before they reach it, or up b to land on stage while they are grabbing ledge. So the up b is reserved for the moment your opponent challenges ledge, if they even do.

Also as a final point, as you mention, peach's vertical sweet spot with up b isn't very good. Her horizontal sweetspot is good though. So in the double jump stall, you can drift back away from the ledge to sweet spot horizontally and avoid many poking moves.

 

[flyboy__]

There is reason for stalling without the up b. That's usually how I do it.

Basically it comes down to remaining ambiguous and keeping your options open. If you are eventually going to come up from ledge, peach can either do some standard ledge option, which are all not super good, especially over 100%, or she can double jump from ledge to try to get to stage. Or she can air dodge but that's not super common. If you want to mix up your opponent, you don't want to telegraph what option you are going to choose. If you do the stall with the up b, and they see you suddenly interrupt the stall with a double jump, they know you are likely to be about to come on stage with a double jump. If your stall consists of low double jumps which allow you to barely make it on stage if you want to, every on of your double jumps in your stall is a potential mixup to land on stage. So the double jump stall is more ambiguous.

It also keeps your options open more. If you commit to the up b stall, and your opponent quickly wave dashed to ledge, you are just dead. Instead, I think it is better to do the double jump stall. If your opponent wave dashes to ledge, you can either react and up b before they reach it, or up b to land on stage while they are grabbing ledge. So the up b is reserved for the moment your opponent challenges ledge, if they even do.

Also as a final point, as you mention, peach's vertical sweet spot with up b isn't very good. Her horizontal sweetspot is good though. So in the double jump stall, you can drift back away from the ledge to sweet spot horizontally and avoid many poking moves.

I really like this answer. It's a shame we don't know better ways to keep her options ambiguous. Thanks for such a good answer. I've been using up-b a decent amount but its definitely punishable at a mid or higher level.