Backroom Tier List Released- Looks Like We're Being Dededestroyed

[SalsaSavant]

Not the worst, far from the best.

As an H tier, we're at the top of the bottom, basically tied with Lucina, and beating out the Miis, Charizard, Palutena, Samus, Ganondorf, Jiggs, and Zelda.

Bottom
H:
I:
J:


What do you think of this placement? Is he underrated? Is there more of a meta for the Penguin King yet to be discovered?
Or are we destined for continued Dededestruction?

I for one, am waiting for the Corrin patch, which has balance changes, before I see anything as set in stone.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised they placed us above Charizard of all characters. Then again, we have a wider playerbase and better results than he does even if he's the better built character.

 

[williamsga555]

I think he's just a tiny tiny bit underrated. I'd have bumped him up to G, maaaaaybe F.

Don't think it really matters sorting through those levels of tiers, but that's my current thought. If I had to send someone to H to replace Dedede's spot I'd pick Shulk, but I'm a heavy skeptic on Shulk and have been for months, so.

List looks passable for the most part. Samus being in the bottom-most tier is just wrong, really not sure why she's still seen as being that bad. Also think Ike should be around where Falcon and Yoshi are.

Any other gripe is really nit-picky over ordering, otherwise I think it's fairly solid for this point in the meta. We're going to look back at this years from now and laugh over a few of these, as is the case with all tier lists. Looking forward to seeing where we were terribly wrong.

 

[SalsaSavant]

I'm surprised they placed us above Charizard of all characters. Then again, we have a wider playerbase and better results than he does even if he's the better built character.

Yeah, Charizard's meta hasn't exactly been developed much, and the patches that made it good are too recent to have to great of an effect on it's meta/tourney results.

That's why I don't think releasing a tier list when the game is still being patched is that great of an idea.

 

[Putuk]

Man, Ike, Bowser and DK managed to become mid-tier characters because of a few patch fixes.
And we're stuck at the bottom.
It's not fair!!

We SHOULD be worshipped as the true king of smash!

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

This tier list has a lot of stupid placements imo. I don't agree with most of it.

 

[Ti-Phil]

I would think Dedede would be higher than H..seriously, I have no trouble defeating opponents using characters up to the B rank as well as some As.

 

[dean.]

Dedede's actually a bit higher than I was expecting,
but hey I've always been a pessimist ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Dar4]

It's about right IMO, maybe a bit high to be honest. I'd put Samus and maybe Brawler/Lucina above Dedede personally. Especially Samus, she's even getting some solid results in big tourneys from JWest I am clueless as to how people can rank her that low. And I think Lucina/Brawler do significantly better against the top tiers. Atleast they have speed and frame data.

Unfortunately unless Dedede gets some frame data buffs and better kill options he's not going to get much higher. I don't think his meta game has anywhere to go because of those two walls that are holding him back. It's sad, I wish Dedede was better. I wish they'd give him the Ike treatment.

 

[MioTinto]

I have a lot of issues with this tier list. Dedede has been doing a lot better in Japan and Europe, so Dedede's placement in american tier lists is just caused by bias, in my opinion. Dr. Mario and Little Mac above us, seriously? I'm not saying Dedede is top tier, he's far from, but I think the american playerbase is exaggerating is flaws a bit too much.
And why are there DLC characters, especially newly released ones such as Cloud, on the list? Wasn't the point of not making tier lists the first few days after the release of the game that the meta is too underdeveloped to support an unbiased tier list? Why does that not apply to DLC characters? I'm not saying the rest of the roster should be getting tier lists ahead of the DLC characters forever, just that it'd be smart to wait until at least a few months after the last DLC characters have been released until we make an official tier list.
I also noticed how high MK is on the list. For a character that's supposedly so good, he has a really small playerbase. I can count the MKs I've seen on tournaments on one hand. Tournament representation is a lot of a character's meta, so why is he above high tier characters with far bigger playerbases such as Yoshi and Cpt. Falcon? He's no SSBM Kirby, but I really don't understand ho a character with such little tournament representation can rank so high.

 

[williamsga555]

MK's tourney representation has been surging lately. Honestly I would have had him higher on this list than he currently is, for what it's worth.

But then again I was saying Meta Knight was still good since the game launched, before I knew about his crazy kill confirms, so I might be a wee bit biased in his favor.

 

[WaddleKing]

I really gotta disagree on Doc's tier placement on there. ,, and especially all deserve to be higher on there than him. I can't really explain why, but atm Doc just isn't looking very good and i haven't seen that many be used. Also that he is quite outclassed by Mario, but they do have enough differences to make them pretty different, atm a lot of the one's for Doc really don't work too well for 1 v 1.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

While I'm no expert on tier lists, I agree with this one for the most part, including Dedede's placement. However, I think that Charizard should be out of bottom tier. I think he is low tier, but not bottom. I also think that Bowser Jr. and Lucas are Mid tiers, not low tiers. I don't have very strong feelings about the placements of any of the other characters.

It is also worth noting that every single one of the people who voted placed Shiek as the best character in the game without fail. If that isn't enough reason to nerf her at least a little bit, I don't know what is.

 

[Soul Train]

Dedede's actually a bit higher than I was expecting,
but hey I've always been a pessimist ¯_(ツ)_/¯

While I'm no expert on tier lists, I agree with this one for the most part, including Dedede's placement. However, I think that Charizard should be out of bottom tier. I think he is low tier, but not bottom.

After reading through the list of voters, I see a pretty clear knowledge gap there, especially with the lesser used characters. Zard's placement is a great example of this, as is D3's - but for opposite reasons. Honestly, I think the only reason D3 is even that high on the list is due to unfamiliarity (which is understandable). But the fact is, with such small and risky effective threat ranges, D3 starts and plays through every match with an imbalance in risk/reward in a way that no other character can quite match. Maybe Jigglypuff, but that's a different topic lol

It's thoughts like this that make me want to go through the entire cast and diagram everyone's effective threat ranges - all just to contrast it to D3 and show just how much of the screen is risky for us and safe for them. To be clear, I love the character, I just have to be piercingly clear on his weaknesses to improve and play him better.

 

[randomguy1235]

They placed Charizard lower than D3? Even though he has:

- Better frame data
- Combo throws
- A killthrow
- AND more damaging moves?

What are they smoking man

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

They placed Charizard lower than D3? Even though he has:

- Better frame data
- Combo throws
- A killthrow
- AND more damaging moves?

What are they smoking man

***********?

 

[Dar4]

And why are there DLC characters, especially newly released ones such as Cloud, on the list? Wasn't the point of not making tier lists the first few days after the release of the game that the meta is too underdeveloped to support an unbiased tier list? Why does that not apply to DLC characters? I'm not saying the rest of the roster should be getting tier lists ahead of the DLC characters forever, just that it'd be smart to wait until at least a few months after the last DLC characters have been released until we make an official tier list.

I think Cloud's placement is fair. In the short time he's been out he's had amazing results. Tweek's Cloud double eliminated Nairo to take a tournament. Two Cloud's won doubles at Genesis. Mew2King took 2 games off of ZeRo's sheik and 2 games off a ESAM's pikachu at Pax. He's doing lots of work in Japan. That's enough to justify his placement right now, it's pretty obvious that Cloud is top 15 right now. I think they're actually being conservative with his placement, I think he definitely makes top 10 on the next update of that tier list. Maybe top 5 at some point.

I think the other DLC characters have been out plenty long enough for a placement. And there will be updates of this tier list. I'm glad they put one out, it's good to get the discussion started and give people an idea of where their character is at in the meta currently.

 

[Basseidon]

If you don't know that Dedede "sucks" then you aren't a dedede main.

 

[Putuk]

If you don't know that Dedede "sucks" then you aren't a dedede main.

Well, YEAH, obviously.
It's not like it's his neutral B or anything.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Well, YEAH, obviously.
It's not like it's his neutral B or anything.

That's Inhale, not Suck. Duuhhhhhhhh


.

.

 

[Mighty Moose]

Seeing people mention Dedede's success in Europe, as an Englishman are there any particular Europeans I should be looking out for?

 

[williamsga555]

Most notable name is El Bardo from Spain. He's been near the top of their PR for awhile, if I remember correctly.

Other than that I'm not sure.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Seeing people mention Dedede's success in Europe, as an Englishman are there any particular Europeans I should be looking out for?

Most notable name is El Bardo from Spain. He's been near the top of their PR for awhile, if I remember correctly.

Other than that I'm not sure.

El_Bardo is the only one I've heard of as well yeah.

 

[El_Bardo]

I am attending BEAST 6 on 19th February ( Biggest EU Sm4sh tourney with +250 entrants including ESAM, MVD, Mr.R ...) , hopefully i'll be able to show the world what DDD is capable of

 

[williamsga555]

Best of luck!

 

[MioTinto]

I am attending BEAST 6 on 19th February ( Biggest EU Sm4sh tourney with +250 entrants including ESAM, MVD, Mr.R ...) , hopefully i'll be able to show the world what DDD is capable of

Aww, I wish I were that brave! I'm also going to Beast 6, but I'll primarily be using . I might pick up as a counterpick, though.

 

[El_Bardo]

Dont worry about that. My goal is to face aprox 70-80% of the MU's, there are certain MU's where i'll avoid going DDD and... speed things a little up

 

[MioTinto]

Dont worry about that. My goal is to face aprox 70-80% of the MU's, there are certain MU's where i'll avoid going DDD and... speed things a little up

Oh, cool! I don't get a lot of chances to enter local tournaments, so I'm a little antsy over entering a tournament this big without a lot of tournament history. And on top of that, I suck at wavebouncing, so that might **** up my performance as Yoshi. I hope I'll do okay at least, anyway.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

We may have a bad position on the 4BR tier list, but just look at the community voted tier list! They put us like mid tier! They put us higher than the Pits, Ike, DK, Luigi, and more! Take a look for yourselves!
http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-16th-feb.379736/
I think this tier list sucks though. Even this list used to be good, but I dont know what they are doing anymore.

 

[SalsaSavant]

We may have a bad position on the 4BR tier list, but just look at the community voted tier list! They put us like mid tier! They put us higher than the Pits, Ike, DK, Luigi, and more! Take a look for yourselves!
http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-16th-feb.379736/
I think this tier list sucks though. Even this list used to be good, but I dont know what they are doing anymore.

I don't think it's HORRIBLY wrong.

I think it just reflects a lower level of play than the normal one. Like, if the official one reflects "best players in the world" this one would be "very good players." Very good players can still be baited into mistakes, at least more than super high level players, and that's what we excel at.

Also, those are REALLY LARGE tiers. They could probably break up the mid tier more, and if they did...we'd probably be in one of the lower ones.

 

[El_Bardo]

Talking about the BEAST6, not sure if you guys saw me on stream , i placed 25th of 267 entrants in singles and 7th of 83 entrants in Teams. I was able to play full DDD the whole tournament losing to Cyve ( Diddy Kong) and Izaw ( Link) . The lost against izaw really hurted as i was able to 3stock him in the second game of the set

 

[Ridel]

Not a bad placement at all unfortunately it looks like iStudying stole the show so most people are probably not going to bat an eyelash at it.

Also I feel some of you really underrate Doc when you say DDD should be higher then him. I feel that Doc handles rushdown and zoning far better then DDD not to mention he has a very comparable punish game. Doc also has very safe shield pressure with b-air and his up-b is a super deadly kill option with a few hit confirms and works as a good oos option. DDD's core issue is his inability to punish reliable and some of his punish moves being extremely high risk low reward. Imo I feel DDD is where he needs to be on the tier list atm.

 

[williamsga555]

Good stuff! Wasn't able to catch the stream, but saw you made it far when I checked the brackets.

Doc is definitely above Dedede, imo. Whether or not it's by much I can't say, though.

 

[P.Kay]

To be honest, I thought Charizard would be higher than Dedede...