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sneakytako

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
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Prelude: I wrote this article after watching ocean's videos over and over to analyze what the difference between our Top ROBs against ocean's. While it's easy to see that Ocean's ROB is very fast and uses many buffer timings that we are not accustomed to, after carefully re-watching segments in videos over and over I realize that his application of ATs is near flawless and he makes the correct decision (or incorrect in some cases) quickly/early. Now I considered, 'OK how can I get so familiar with these ATs to apply them in high pressure situations?' The conclusion I came up with is that I need to learn to walk before I learn to run, before I practice my ATs I need to be able to consider every basic option instantly and commit to my best option.

We are all pretty familiar with what ROB is capable of, but we lack the confidence to make a decision early and live with any consequences. While I pondered why this is so, I reviewed many US ROBs videos as reference to see if there were any hints. Long story short we make elementary mistakes that destroy our confidence, the first thing we need to do is to brush up on the basics before we try to expand the potential of our character.

Here are the area's I'm talking about:


1.) PUNISHMENT -
A major issue I see many of us do is to allow opponents to get away with moves that are punishable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRBaV-jwLM Watch this video from 7:33 on and count how times marth's landing is unpunished. (I'm sorry Kira, I still <3 your ROB). At the very beginning of the match ROB lets the marth get away with a whiffed u-air by rolling away. I'm 100% sure this could have been pivotgrabbed, 90% sure this could have been punished with up-tilt, 70% sure this could have been punished with stutter-step away Fsmash, about 40% sure punish with OoS dsmash. Although this would have been a cross-up if marth were to land behind ROB, we cannot let marth to get away with whiffing moves. Brawl is a game where guaranteed hits are few and far inbetween, shield is just too good of an option to let opportunities slip away. I count 5 times where ROB was within Ftilt range where Marth lands safetly with landing lag unpunished on marth's first stock alone. Imagine how differently the game would have been if even three of those landings were punished. I've noticed playing against the better players in each region that they 'don't let you get away with BS'. I realize now that what I meant is that they miss guaranteed punishes less frequently. I truly believe that this is a critical element that we do not practice enough, I now play under the resolution that I will identify and capitalize on these kinds of mistakes as quickly and accurately as possible.

This also works the other way around. If he doesn't react to a situation that was a guaranteed punish, he is still looking to hit you with something as a consolation prize. Take 9:05 from the video for example. While ROB's ftilt is probably not punishable at that distance, by not committing marth has the advantage. We have few option that could have beaten sh nair, if any. If you make a mistake, don't try to force the attack in. Retreat and regroup. If ROB would have surrendered the space and retreated backwards/jump away, he would not have been hit with the SH nair. While he would still be disadvantaged being to find a way to land, like the great isai says 'don't get hit'. Any opportunity to rob your opponent from landing a hit is good (lol puns).

2- Training your reaction : Read the ****. Added 3/19

Too many times I see people not respecting the strengths of their oponenets. I see ROBs getting pummeled/CG/tether grabbed at low percent. I see people getting hit by multi hit moves. I see people not DIng simple followups/tech chases. While it is necessary to have knowledge of MUs, the real reason why people can't mash out of IC grab or DI away from tipper Fsmash from Marth Dthrow is because they are not in the proper mindset to react.

Too much focus is on the potential of our character versus too little attention on the potential of our opponents. Lex Luthor once made an amazing piece of advice; 'Turn your weakness into your strength'. By understanding where you are most vulnerable, it becomes apparent on the intentions to expliot those weakneses, which can lead to being better prepared for these actions.

Let me give you an example. Your playing an IC's. Theoritically one grab should equal a lost stock, so you should space in a way that shouldn't get grabbed. Here's the truth: No matter how gay/awesome you play, 9/10 games you will get grabbed at least once, maybe more. Rather than focusing most of your attention to avoiding grab while the rest into trying to land hits, sometimes it's better to concede and prepare for the grab rather than consider every remaining option to avoid grab. Think of what I said before. Imagine yourself camping and giving IC's a really hard time to approach. You finally see that you have no more options and he prepares to dash in and grab. Instead of trying to attack/dodge his grab, you acknowledge that he will grab you. In the moment that he grabs you, if you gave him a hard time to earn that grab there will be a 'YES!' moment that will cause him to first double check the situation to make sure he can captialize in this rare opportunity. If you are ready for the grab, you mash EVEN BEFOFE YOU SEE THE GRAB ANIMATION (that's important). If you suceed in mashing out, not only did you escape from a lost stock, you destroy his confidence in the MU by nullifing his most powerful aspect. Hence, you turn your weakness into your strength, and vice versa.

Let me give you another example. Lets say you face an Olimar. What is olimar's strength/gameplan? He wants to either grab you or Upsmash you at low percent, and follow up with his Upsamsh (x2) > Upair/Fair/regrab game. Now shield beats upsmash pretty convincingly, its really hard to shield poke with upsmash when your not on a platform. If you stay on the stage and space away from his upsmash. Now he's going to throw pikmin, but this is all to either stalemate you and win the attrition game or make you jump/approach and mis-space, which leads to the prior situation of upsmash or grab. By approaching with shield, you have narrowed his good options to one thing, which is grab/pivot grab. When you approach on the ground with shield, be ready to mash out. His grab, especially his pivot grab, is very easy to mash out since it takes so long to actually get pulled into this throwing range. By understading the three good options olimar has and elimnating two, you can limit his last option and minimize the effectiveness of the move with a simple read.

Let me take it a step further. Let's say your playing the olimar on BF. You take the first stock lead, and are at high percent. Now, what are his kill moves? Smashes, grab/ Red Fair, maybe up-b. Once he gets off his floating invinceble platrom and lands on the stage, how does he kill you if you camp the air? By limiting yourself to only land on the ledge and the top platform, you effectively take out his prime kill moves of upsmash/fmash/grab. His options are now severly limited by simply staying directly above him at all times. Wait till he whiffs a move, fast fall a nair, run away to the ledge and repeat. If he doesn't whiff a move in range, camp the top platform. Force him to try to kill you with an upair or some kind of crazy up-b. If he lands on the side platform, fight him for the space and push him back on the stage. By playing out of his element you will make him waste lots of time and patience, and hopefully tack on some damage.

TLDR: The main point of this section was 4 fold.

1.) Train your reaction to limit their strength. Concede that they play good characters that generally have at least one trait overwhelming better than ROB.

2.) Train your reaction to not be vulnerable to kill moves.

3.) Limiting their strength causes them to think outside the box, which leads to mistakes.

4.) Patience is a limited reasource. By playing gay you deplete theirs at a much faster rate.

Coming soon: Stalemates - The art of doing nothing
 

Mister Eric

Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
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Couldn't disagree more with you, sneaky. This is nothing but elementary stuff that any scrub has already mastered. Get *****. Get better. Just kidding. Good read<3

:phone:
 

8Bitman

Smash Master
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I like this just because it was what I have been trying to say. It's just that you put it in Layman's Terms. IMO it is just trying to get the ideology of playing calm, rather than scared, across.

We just need to find more people interested in playing R.O.B and get them to come here and want to get better.

Nice read Sneaky. :3
 

Zwarm

Smash Hero
Premium
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Nov 9, 2008
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Mount Prospect, IL
Whenever I play a very basic ROB, I always seem to do better.

I only have a basic ROB when I play other characters to practice for tournaments, so I think from now on, I'm gonna practice other characters hard for tournament use, and save ROB for tournament. Whenever I seem to care about playing and doing well with ROB, I do horrible. I think this might be my solution.

Great read, sneaky.

:phone:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Messages
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I should also comment something here. It's a great post. Are you gonna do more of these?
 

sneakytako

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
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Cincinnati OH
I plan to make this a 5 part series, but I'm having trouble not overlapping each other / I don't have a lot of free time (johns). Feel free to discuss things that you agree/disagree with, just know that I reserve to right to troll any comment I feel is illegitimate.
 

8Bitman

Smash Master
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Awww, damn..... Well sorry if it seems like that Sneakytaco.. =(
 

Mister Eric

Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
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I really think ROBs should be collaborating here more. Even myself.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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The new part was amazing. Something I haven't really thought of much, I usually just think of what Rob does and not what they could do. I could learn a lot if I were to apply this into my game.
 

8Bitman

Smash Master
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I like it, good read Sneaky. :3

I appreciate the third paragraph the most.
 

8Bitman

Smash Master
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Well yeah, but then again you are just throwing these on here as you think of them, get all of them down first, and revise all of them later. You could make a book of everything after you're done, lol.

In other words, write all, and summarize slightly with main key points and examples later. Don't waste the time to revise when you could be writing what you're thinking of right now.
 

Sudai

Stuff here
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Rather than focusing most of your attention to avoiding grab while the rest into trying to land hits, sometimes it's better to concede and prepare for the grab rather than consider every remaining option to avoid grab. Think of what I said before. Imagine yourself camping and giving IC's a really hard time to approach. You finally see that you have no more options and he prepares to dash in and grab. Instead of trying to attack/dodge his grab, you acknowledge that he will grab you. In the moment that he grabs you, if you gave him a hard time to earn that grab there will be a 'YES!' moment that will cause him to first double check the situation to make sure he can captialize in this rare opportunity. If you are ready for the grab, you mash EVEN BEFOFE YOU SEE THE GRAB ANIMATION (that's important). If you suceed in mashing out, not only did you escape from a lost stock, you destroy his confidence in the MU by nullifing his most powerful aspect. Hence, you turn your weakness into your strength, and vice versa.[/COLOR]
I would like to expand on this point as I feel too many do not understand how to mash out of grabs properly.

First and foremost, if you are going to mash, always start by hitting the CStick down*. If you're mashing before actually being hit, starting with CStick down throws out a DSmash so I feel it's just a good habit to get used to mashing starting with CStick down.
*Ignore this if you're panning to time it for smash DI as you can not smash DI down when your character is on the ground.

After that, the actual mashing pattern is rather important. That half second 'YES!' that sneaky mentioned is enough to break out of grabs to higher percents than you would think if you mash properly and quickly enough.

The best mashing method is to rotate the joystick (either direction) in full circles. Tap the L button as fast as you can. Move your right hand in a position to 'roll over' ABXY; Move your hand back and fourth across it so your fingers repeatedly hit the buttons and tap the CStick with the side of your finders in the same motion.
Pros will rock on the R button with their leg for extra frame reduction.

Button press : Frames taken off the grab
Joystick octagon: 8 frames per notch hit (8 total making an octagon). 8 frames per full rotation around all 8 notches without returning to center.
CStick: 16 frames for going in any direction but must return to center before you can input a new direction.
ABXYLRZ: 8 frames per button push.


This info was mostly taken from UTD Zac and it's been a while so it may be a bit off. Would be happy if someone checked that for me.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Use the KPrimes awesome method that involves setting your Dpad to attack, jump or shield. Then you will hold the control stick up and start mashing the Cstick in a direction that the control stick isn't facing. This causes every Cstick input count as inputs for both sticks removing the 16+8 from the control stick every time you do it. At the same time you rotate the Dpad with your thumb and the rest of the fingers mash whatever is available. It requires a lot of practice since your hands must be repositioned, but it's damn worth it especially against ICies. I know you all are aware of this, but still decided to post about it.
 
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