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Midwest [Aug 22, 2015] EXPosure 22 (Oak Park, IL)

Maniac83

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
1
My cousin and I just found out we could participate this morning, and we were wondering if we could still register, and if we could how we could do it. This is for Super Smash Bros Brawl singles and doubles, by the way.
 

StarFruit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
64
Friend told me i had to register by the 27th for brawl and here it is but i couldn't register. Was hoping I could be signed up for this as i had a blast last time. StarbasedFruit.
 

Knubs.

ナブ Paquito.
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
8,809
Location
Chicago, IL
My cousin and I just found out we could participate this morning, and we were wondering if we could still register, and if we could how we could do it. This is for Super Smash Bros Brawl singles and doubles, by the way.
Friend told me i had to register by the 27th for brawl and here it is but i couldn't register. Was hoping I could be signed up for this as i had a blast last time. StarbasedFruit.
If it's for Brawl, just show up and try to see if you guys can sign up.
The difference between PM/Melee and Brawl is significant. I can see EXP being more lenient towards you guys since about only 15 people RSVP'd for Brawl singles (show up earliest as possible too just in case). Also, Sunday will be more of a relevantly relaxed day in comparison to Saturday.
 

SwagTrain

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
15
Location
Chicago, IL
3DS FC
2964-9085-1107
HARRY I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR MANAGER HOLY **** HOW CAN THEY CALL YOU AWAY FROM THIS.

MY HYPE, HARRY. MY ****ING HYPE.
 

Bieber

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
164
Location
Up in the air
any way we can get doubles at this?

st. louis (darkatma, me, hart, shinobi) is thinking of coming if there's teams
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
Location
Chicago / San Diego
The whole "Rising Star" thing is a bit dubious. As a game theory/econ guy, it just seems full of holes to me.

I've seen tournaments in the past run an amateur bracket early in the day, with a small entry fee (which would go into the pro prize pool, or to the venue, no actual payouts) and top 1-3 in the amateur bracket get free entry into the pro bracket. Alternatively, pool results could split people into pro and amateur brackets. As it is, judging a player as a pro or "rising star" is horrifically subjective.
 

HRR2b23

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
134
Location
Lost in the Water Temple
3DS FC
2535-4498-3108
How many slots will there be for the Melee/PM rising stars for EXP7? Thinking about registering and am curious how many are left.
 

EXPGaming

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
266
Location
6549 W. North Ave. Oak Park, IL 60302
The whole "Rising Star" thing is a bit dubious. As a game theory/econ guy, it just seems full of holes to me.

I've seen tournaments in the past run an amateur bracket early in the day, with a small entry fee (which would go into the pro prize pool, or to the venue, no actual payouts) and top 1-3 in the amateur bracket get free entry into the pro bracket. Alternatively, pool results could split people into pro and amateur brackets. As it is, judging a player as a pro or "rising star" is horrifically subjective.
Now you can see a tournament where an amateur bracket is run in a different way and the amateurs actually win money. If I decide to change things before the tournament then I will but for now this is what we will try out. Also you rsvp'd twice, since you're a pro your rising stars rsvp was deleted.


How many slots will there be for the Melee/PM rising stars for EXP7? Thinking about registering and am curious how many are left.
At the moment there is no cap on the number of participants so feel free to rsvp.
 

azzucips

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
62
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
Azzucips
3DS FC
1461-6305-7845
I support the idea for:
top 2 make it to pro bracket,
middle 2 make it to rising star, and
bottom X are out
 

SwagTrain

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
15
Location
Chicago, IL
3DS FC
2964-9085-1107
If you guys are worried about rising stars winning more $$$, the really simple solution is to have rising stars worth less than pro bracket. Alternatively, Bobby can just put in a pot bonus for pro.

I was actually talking to Faceroll about this on Saturday, and I'm probably one of the only people here that's all for it, so I'm gonna talk a little about it. It's a good chance for newer players to enter a tournament and not go 0-X and play more. As long as Bobby uses pools for seeding rather than to knock people out in the rising stars bracket, new players can come, play, and not feel discouraged, which I'm all for because the skill gap between new and medium-level players is high, the gap between them and pro players even wider. It's hard to level up fast when you're new and the only thing that's happening is you're being 4-stocked. "Just get better" isn't an option when there's so much depth to Smash that they can't possibly "just get better" unless they're incredible, especially when some of them only have time to make it to a monthly and not to WDW. Rising stars bracket lets them play with players around their level and those a little above so that they get a taste of what it's like to be thrashed. If a new player really wants to play with pros and it works out for them, more power, but I'm under the opinion that their growth is better if they play with their level and those a little better than them.

Also, a player's skill has objective components. When Power Rankings are created, they're more objective than subjective (I would hope). You can use placement at locals, placement at regionals, placement at nationals, and notable wins against other players who have notable placements in those same three categories. If there were absolutely no objective components to say who is better then Power Rankings would never really exist, since you would never be able to say who is better.

All you have to do for "Rising Stars" and "Pro" is set a player or a placing that cuts a line between the two (there's more, I'm just naming the simplest ones that popped in my head). Obviously, that can be done wrong, but I trust Bobby to make solid decisions and maintain this properly.

P.S. Splitting pools reasults into pro and rising stars is a good idea, too, but I wanna see how Bobby's idea pans out because I think it's a good idea. LOL.
 
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Oro?!

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
9,674
Location
Geneva/Chicago, Illinois
This is how I have seen the best amateur brackets run.

Pools happen. Same entry fee for everyone. Top X make it to pro bracket, and EVERYONE else makes it to amateur bracket. A % of the pot is taken from the total prize pool for amateur bracket.

If I was new, or an amateur player, I personally wouldn't like to be labeled as pro vs amateur without pools dictating that for me. Pools allow you an entire spectrum of competition, and everyone being placed into bracket alleviates a lot of the stress of pools. The only problem with this format would be people intentionally sandbagging pools if they believe they can win amateur but not pro bracket. You can kind of mediate that with collusion clauses and rules, since it is usually pretty apparent if sandbagging was going on. The reason I believe that this is the best system, is due to how inconsistent placings are, especially in PM. People might drown in pools, or make it all the way to top 8 solely based on their pools and bracket opponents.

If this is solely a money issue, then yeah, go with the rising stars format. I can help with the best of my ability to seed people if you would like Bobby. If this is about a quality of tournament experience, then at least I personally believe in the alternate amateur bracket system that I explained above. If you do decide to go through with rising stars, then I would say give those rising star players the choice to do one or both brackets, and disallow obvious better players from entering rising stars. Some people legitimately want to play good competition and feel that is the best method to improve for them personally. I wouldn't want to take that away from people just because of an arbitrary skill value we put on people.
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
Location
Chicago / San Diego
Hold on a second! I'm a "Pro" player? I've only ever been to one EXP tournament, and I barely made it out of pools in both events and got knocked out of bracket almost immediately. I know I beat Rat in P:M pools, but frankly that was a fluke. I've never been to a WDW, never broken top 8 at a CoD tournament. You're calling me a "Pro"?!?!?!? At any out-of-Chicago tournament, I'm a total zero, a no-name scrub.

I should have not gone to that event so I could show up as a no-name at this tournament to make money! I am going to encourage my no-name UChi friends to attend so they can win the "Rising Stars" bracket. It should be easy for them if you're going to count me as a "Pro".

I'm not actually upset, but I'm being hyperbolic to make a point.




I should clarify that I think any amateur bracket system with zero (or very small) prize pool is 100% valid, and a great experience for amateur players. My problem is not with amateur players making money; my problem is with the weird incentives that an amateur payout creates, and with the total lack of transparency as to who qualifies as a "Rising Star". As soon as you stick that incentive there, all sorts of weird distortions come into play; collusion, sandbagging, false identities, etc. It's much more elegant to have the system provide zero incentives for cheating (which an extremely small prize pool achieves). Moreover, amateur players don't need that monetary incentive to attend tournaments. A lower entry fee is probably preferable than the minuscule chance of a payout to an amateur player. Plus, if you design it correctly, it'll make EXP more money.
 
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Tehbankzor

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
9
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I actually like the idea of "Rising Stars" since I have been playing a little over 2 months, and would love more tournament matches. You guys should do the same thing with Melee. I was kind of let down you guys took out melee doubles on Saturday. Was there just not enough time?
 

Arty

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
1,859
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Yo, if OnionChowder finagles his way into the Rising Stars bracket, I want in as well!!

For real though, I just don't like the idea of the Rising Stars bracket having the same entry fee. Just by judging off of the last EXP tournament, there were about 60 entrants and probably ~30 of those could be considered Rising Stars, which is gonna make for a pretty sizable pot. And I'm almost certainly not gonna win any money in the Pro Bracket, so this is not coming from any sort of greedy perspective, I just don't think it's fair for someone that would normally not make it out of pools, to win $200-$300.

tldr; How is Kels supposed to pay his bills, if half of the pot is gonna go away?!
 

EXPGaming

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
266
Location
6549 W. North Ave. Oak Park, IL 60302
Everyone needs to chill out.

This is how I have seen the best amateur brackets run.

Pools happen. Same entry fee for everyone. Top X make it to pro bracket, and EVERYONE else makes it to amateur bracket. A % of the pot is taken from the total prize pool for amateur bracket.
I will change the format to this.


Hold on a second! I'm a "Pro" player? I've only ever been to one EXP tournament, and I barely made it out of pools in both events and got knocked out of bracket almost immediately. I know I beat Rat in P:M pools, but frankly that was a fluke. I've never been to a WDW, never broken top 8 at a CoD tournament. You're calling me a "Pro"?!?!?!? At any out-of-Chicago tournament, I'm a total zero, a no-name scrub.
This isn't an out-of-Chicago tournament. When Zwarm comes over to me telling me his pool is stacked cuz OnionChild is in it and is really good at PM then you take first seed over Rat. It's obvious you're a top player. But as I just stated the format is gonna change.


How is Kels supposed to pay his bills, if half of the pot is gonna go away?!
This is the most valid point.


I actually like the idea of "Rising Stars" since I have been playing a little over 2 months, and would love more tournament matches. You guys should do the same thing with Melee. I was kind of let down you guys took out melee doubles on Saturday. Was there just not enough time?
I just chose not to schedule doubles on Saturday. We'll be doing doubles at the next WDW and we can do it again at the one after or the Friday before EXP7 or I can even replace Sunday's csp with doubles.
 
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