AT: SHAD'ing and it's Evolution!

[jwj442]

So does using the grab button to airdodge actually make a difference?

 

[SheerMadness]

Doesn't make any difference from what I tested.

 

[Koscu]

Yeah i just got back from my friends place. There isn't much difference between using shield or grab. But its definitely usefull. I finally started using it in gameplay and it actually works pretty good, i just gotta get a lot faster with it. Right now i can't SHFFAAD only SHAAD. But its definitely fun to use. Today i completed it twice finishing with a smash attack, and my friends haven't found a way to punish me yet, though i'm sure some one on these boards will.

Personally, I use grab because it allows me to attack out of landing with having to press any other button than pulling the trigger again after landing. But its all personal preference.

I'll take AT out of the name if you guys want.

 

[Kiederen]

If one of you guys who can do it saves it as a replay (no sd card required as far as I know; just save to the wii, it'll be less than three minutes easily) you should then be able to send it to someone (via brawl wi-fi) who can make a online vid of it. Anyone here meet the latter requirements?

 

[SuPeRCuSsIoN]

you can roll straight from the ground without the bubble showing up.

 

[Nebaku]

sounds like he is just SHFFL(air dodge), so you are getting the noise of the air dodge, with a fast fall animation.

LOL then I look at the topic ohhhhhhhh.

This is a nice tech. It will eventually lead you to the tether damage techniques, using zair.

I think, check my video at 2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojrxh8zn4UU
I could be absolutely wrong though.

 

[Shukudai]

sounds exactly like the same technique used in.....

"Air-Dodge into Glide Toss


Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko
n order to do this, you must air dodge with your momentum headed downwards and as soon as you hit the ground press shield and do the glide toss in either direction...

Air Dodge into Glide Toss is Confirmed for the Following (based off character projectiles)

Toon Links Bombs
Warios Bike Parts
Zamus Armor
Diddy's Bananas
Peaches Turnips

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk "

... seen in the Compilation Thread. Except this guy's trying to throw in a couple extra things (short hop, fast fall, aerial etc) before airdodging into the ground.

 

[Dx-pyrohunter64]

lawllz!?

Alright, so i guess because i had ingested some alcohol when i found this it can't be useful WHAT so ever. It was smash party on a friday night. I highly doubt the mechanics of the game are not dependent on the BAC of the players, idiot.

that made me lmao, I'm puttin that in my sig of you don't mind XD
and yeah I wouldn't mind testin this out, get on it tommorow =]

 

[drag0nfeather]

Dude, the basics of this is SHAD. Short-hop air-dodge. You don't need to get so complicated. SHFFAD doesn't roll off the tongue and I don't care for fast-falling in Brawl except as a mind-game because I'd be using SHAD as an evasion technique, never something I'd use regularly as an awkward offensive technique.

All this stuff about rolling and doing tilts afterward is everyone else's choice, all you had to say was, "And you can roll if you hold the shield button afterwards and then drop your shield to unleash any attack you want if you happened to be SHAD'ing to dodge your opponent's attack replacing rolling for some WEIRD REASON."

Off-shoot of this is multi-jumping (Pit, MK, etc.) and air-dodging every time you do so to get back on stage.

If you respond to this message with, "Dude, we already discussed this. I was just too dumb to put it in the Original Post in an easy place to read. So, now I'm scolding you for not hunting through tens of posts for one small tidbit of information that could've been handled easily by simply making an edit to the original post." I'll rip your face off.

 

[Koscu]

I'll put it in the OP that we have come to the conclusion that this is SHAD'ing. The only reason i posted this was because i never personally got great or saw th capabilities of SHADing on an offensive play style. So when i found this i though that no one had seen it before because i hadn't seen anyone say they had use shield out of an airdodge or to cause the airdodge even.

Personally, i will continue to use Grab to dodge instead of shield because it equals in pressing less buttons for me personally which i think is a definite plus.

I'll edit the OP and base it on a SHAD'ing guide and all the offensive and defensive capabilities it has in play, and simplify it accordingly to lessen confusion and allow for this move to grow within the community. Thanks all for your input

If you have anything else to add this please feel free to post anytime you figure something else minor or major that could help another player understand, or even add to the growth of this technique.

Thanks

 

[Marie_54]

I had done that already by mistake too, i started out playing with the Wii-Mote and Nunchuck and over time decided to switch because smash attacks weren't responding well and i picked up a GC controller and set it to jump with L, and grab X for a new feel and then i started playing and said: "Hey look no wave dash! Agony!" while hitting the wrong buttons and noticed that by accident.

I thought probably someone else had noticed that before since i'm not exactly a Pro so i decided not to talk about it...

 

[Ojanya]

dumb *** drunk...i didnt even bother reading the rest

This post loses the whole thread.

 

[Esca]

What it sounds like is that you just decided to push alot of buttons at once and hope it did something.

 

[Marie_54]

(about what Flame said)

I bet the person who 1st found out about wave dashing was drunk in the first place...

 

[Koscu]

hahah basically.

A detailed explanation of EVERYTHING that i've read about SHAD'ing and what other and myself have contributed to its developement will be editted in the original post. Luckily now that i don't feel like i'm the only person on the boards that thinks i'm sane it should be extremely more ledgable. It should be up in about a half hour on the easiest ways of doing a SHAD and its large amount of variations that are combined with it

 

[Koscu]

All Editted to hopefully be more comprehensive for readers. I've included as much as i could lol, took me like two hours with all the colours and ****

 

[TheManaLord]

What? ?

 

[Koscu]

What's up lol?

What are you confused about, i'll try an help >.<

I realize its hard to understand or see considering the lack of videos, but its a simplistic move in nature that can be complicated when you try to manipulate it. I personally don't even consider it an advanced technique, but more of a basic technique that every player should be able to use considering its capabilities.

There is a single video on youtube.com that shows a defensive SHAD without any of the more complicated variations and just shoes the basic jump to air dodge to bubble shield. I'll post it in the OP asap.

 

[Shukudai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk

shows SHAD to instant glide toss.

 

[Surgo]

The point I was making earlier and seems to have suddenly gone missing from the OP is that you can buffer your attacks (tilts, smashes) and rolls in the air dodge before you land, provided your air dodge lands on (or possibly very near) the ground. I have no idea why the original post changed that drastically...I thought that's what this thread was about.

 

[mugwhump]

Okay I'm gonna try and interpret

Point of thread:
1) Air dodging has the same amount of landing lag as just landing regularly
2) Thus, air dodging before landing gives you a larger window of time to buffer actions to be executed upon landing. For example, if you press A 5 frames before mario lands, he'll start his neutral air. Even if you press A again immediately, he won't do his jab because the second A came too soon to be buffered (the nair's landing lag moved the buffer window back). If you air dodge then press A 5 frames before landing, he'll do his jab right when he lands.

You don't actually need to air dodge for any of this... it just makes buffering easier.

I think.

 

[tect]

i just realized that i was doing this as an approach with fox using his dsmash

 

[NoVaLombardia]

correct me if i'm wrong, but are you aiming to use this as an approach to projectile spammers?

by the explanation im getting it as your attacks are performed instantly after you land from the air dodge, thus causing no lag in between (or at least the regular start up lag before the move actually hits).

so if you actually approached through a projectile and an F-smash was waiting for you, you would have those few invincibility frames there for you with a quick unpunishable AAA, or something of the matter?

 

[tect]

i don't think you carry any invincibility frames after you hit the ground
that would be broken

 

[BluMilk]

Shad'ing recks house when used with peach

 

[nightSN]

wouldnt this just cancel out that landing lag?

 

[Koscu]

Like the others said, and i'll edit OP when i can, its basically just abusing the buffering system. What ever you do after the SHAD doesn't really eliminate any lag, it feels like it, but its never been completely proven. (aka when ever i do it if feels like i'm connecting the moves faster, but when i look at it in 1/4 time it doesn't -look- like it.)

the SHAD is the actual Short Hop - Fast Fall - Air Dodge tactic. What ever you do before/during/after the SHAD just add to its potential. I don't have a Wii so i can do so much research into the SHAD, i'm just the poster/lobbyist hahaha. I really really wish someone who is able to make videos could make a video showing a true SHAD including the fast fall and/or aerial.

This is brand new, and all info on it hasn't been bunked/debunked yet.

 

[Jewdo]

Oh, I *think* I get it now (having watched the Peach video).

(1) SHAD'ing abuses the buffering system to allow instantaneous attacks upon landing. Therefore...

(2) it doesn't cancel aerial landing lag like an L-cancel, but HUMAN lag.

(3) The increase in speed comes from the buffer executing the stored move on the exact frame that the move becomes possible. This cuts out the time between when a character lands and when the user would normally input a new command.

BEAUTIFUL. I don't know how often a move's success will come down to a few frames' difference (such a situation sounds like poor planning to me), but you can be sure that SHAD'ing will speed-up matches if everyone uses it.

**edit**
I've tried this for myself now. There is definitely a noticeable difference in the speed of move deployment after my characters land. Seems more like an approach technique than a speed boost for evasive situations, so I retract my "poor planning" comment.

I don't think I'm the first to notice this, but you can queue moves into the buffer with the C-Stick too. This allows for easy SHADing with smashes (default C-stick) or B-moves (if you've switched to a B-stick). Wolf's D-smash and F-smash, for example, are brutally fast when SHAD'd, and a SHAD'd Falcon "Dive" is just plain unexpected.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

Oh, I *think* I get it now (having watched the Peach video).

(1) SHAD'ing abuses the buffering system to allow instantaneous attacks upon landing. Therefore...

(2) it doesn't cancel aerial landing lag like an L-cancel, but HUMAN lag.

(3) The increase in speed comes from the buffer executing the stored move on the exact frame that the move becomes possible. This cuts out the time between when a character lands and when the user would normally input a new command.

BEAUTIFUL. I don't know how often a move's success will come down to a few frames' difference (such a situation sounds like poor planning to me), but you can be sure that SHAD'ing will speed-up matches if everyone uses it.

**edit**
I've tried this for myself now. There is definitely a noticeable difference in the speed of move deployment after my characters land. Seems more like an approach technique than a speed boost for evasive situations, so I retract my "poor planning" comment.

I don't think I'm the first to notice this, but you can queue moves into the buffer with the C-Stick too. This allows for easy SHADing with smashes (default C-stick) or B-moves (if you've switched to a B-stick). Wolf's D-smash and F-smash, for example, are brutally fast when SHAD'd, and a SHAD'd Falcon "Dive" is just plain unexpected.

If this is true, I think we have ourselves a genuine AT.

 

[tect]

what i noticed is that you sort of.... appear when you initiate and air dodge near the ground ...? i don't mean that you teleport or anything, but it just seems like that. anyone else know what i'm talking about?

 

[mugwhump]

Oh, I *think* I get it now (having watched the Peach video).

(1) SHAD'ing abuses the buffering system to allow instantaneous attacks upon landing. Therefore...

(2) it doesn't cancel aerial landing lag like an L-cancel, but HUMAN lag.

(3) The increase in speed comes from the buffer executing the stored move on the exact frame that the move becomes possible. This cuts out the time between when a character lands and when the user would normally input a new command.

BEAUTIFUL. I don't know how often a move's success will come down to a few frames' difference (such a situation sounds like poor planning to me), but you can be sure that SHAD'ing will speed-up matches if everyone uses it.

**edit**
I've tried this for myself now. There is definitely a noticeable difference in the speed of move deployment after my characters land. Seems more like an approach technique than a speed boost for evasive situations, so I retract my "poor planning" comment.

I don't think I'm the first to notice this, but you can queue moves into the buffer with the C-Stick too. This allows for easy SHADing with smashes (default C-stick) or B-moves (if you've switched to a B-stick). Wolf's D-smash and F-smash, for example, are brutally fast when SHAD'd, and a SHAD'd Falcon "Dive" is just plain unexpected.

Yeah you can buffer anything you want, a dash, shield, dodge, attack, jump, anything.

And you don't need to air dodge in order to attack instantly upon landing, it works if you just land normally. You just need to be slightly more precise with your timing. Then again, there's no real disadvantage to air dodging before you land, so you might as well take the handful of invincibility frames.

 

[h1roshi]

cool stuffz.

-hiro

 

[NoVaLombardia]

i don't think you carry any invincibility frames after you hit the ground
that would be broken

what i meant to say was heres for example:

you jump

start airdodge toward the ground

Frames of invincibility 1-5 maybe.

Frame 6 You hit the ground, invincibility wears off.

Frame 6 you immediately initiate the attack with its supposed increased speed.

So Frame 5 Invinicible, Frame 6, you are attacking

Would be a nice way to punish a forward smash, imo

 

[Crossjeremiah]

this seems very bad. it sounds like someone who is too lazy to practice short hopping with aerial dodges. and just found the easy way out.... and can't do any of other adv techs because he has this configurations

 

[tect]

what i meant to say was heres for example:

you jump

start airdodge toward the ground

Frames of invincibility 1-5 maybe.

Frame 6 You hit the ground, invincibility wears off.

Frame 6 you immediately initiate the attack with its supposed increased speed.

So Frame 5 Invinicible, Frame 6, you are attacking

yes/no

true you are "attacking", at the very least, you are starting your attack. but you aren't invincible until you "attacK' because of start-up lag. but, yes, i do understand what you are trying to say.

 

[eyestrain92]

Looks to me like a new form of Wavedashing used for more or less aerial approaches instead of ground game. Augh.

 

[Koscu]

what i noticed is that you sort of.... appear when you initiate and air dodge near the ground ...? i don't mean that you teleport or anything, but it just seems like that. anyone else know what i'm talking about?

As if you instantly switch from the airdodge position to standing/whatever you do after you land? Cause that's how i see it when i SHAD. I just wanna get faster at doing this and see who's better with it. The spacies DESTROY as from what i've seen. And any floaters with multiple jumps can spam SHADing a few times with out landing. Its actually pretty sick with Jigglypuff cause you move faster than runnning with her.

 

[Koscu]

Please could anyone get a video up?
If and when i get a wii i'll try and make a video of me doing it with each and every character.
Keep this alive, its definitely useful!

 

[Shukudai]

are you sure you're not just trying to make a big deal out of a straightforward mindgame option? i fail to see how it's an AT at all, compared to things like jab cancelling, B-reversals, RAR.

 

[Koscu]

I personally never wanted to call an AT from the beginning, i just used it as an attactor. You're complete right and i agree, its just a basic movement and straightforward mindgame. But due to my lacking of a wii i can't test it as much as i would like to.

Its just abusing the buffering mechanics of brawl, nothing huge, you don't even have to AD to complete it. But i just think that its lacking in research to let it down. People all over the character only boards all talk about it, but its mentioned low key and half the people never even think to come near the Technical Forums to discuss it.

Sure i'm over advertising it, but taht's because its useful. Its not as advanced or hightech as RARing or B-reversals obviously, i'd never argue that, but this is definitely not something, in my opinion, that should be shrugged off as just another inferior move that won't help anything, cause it does.

It speeds up the game, if you do i properly, something lacking in brawl.

Maybe i'm just rambling, maybe i'm crazy, who knows.