DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Talked about this in another thread, just decided to make a separate thread for it. This will list some examples of frame advantages/disadvantages on assorted characters at various percentages for when they successfully SDI/ASDI out of DSmash, something that I feel will be key to anti-ROB meta in the near future. I have no doubt some players already employ this, but my region doesn't appear to have any of them. The here point is to assess whether or not dsmash really does its job as ROB's primary defensive tool.
Just a quick briefing, ROB's dsmash has four multi hits that lead into the final launching hit. Each consecutive hit is two frames closer to the end of the move, so depending on when the opponent escapes affects frame advantage. The hits also increase damage which increases knockback and hitstun, also affecting the frame advantage.
Under each character will be listed percent values. Under each percent value will be list frame advantages for ROB (negative means advantage for other character). They will be sorted as such:
Character-
XX%
Frame advantage with only ASDI up all hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on first hit + ASDI up all hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on second hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on third hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on fourth hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
I may not go as far as including all of these, I expect a pattern to emerge where frame advantage for ROB just increases by 2-3 for every hit the opponent doesn't escape. I also won't be including various spacings, I'll just assume the opponent was grounded as they got hit, which is the case most of the time, as the usually get dsmash while in landing lag from a bad aerial approach that got CC'd. Horizontal distance from ROB doesn't really matter either so long as they got hit, since iirc all hitboxes on each part of his arm have the same properties. Lastly, some floaties may be able to act before they touch the ground, in which i'll make a note for that advantage instead of grounded advantage.
Also, technically you can SDI dsmash's hits twice, but idk if that's humanly possible to do consistently.
Anyways:
Fox- Note: due his high gravity, he can often fall back into hits after SDIing out. ROB has a blindspot of hitboxes along his spine, so if fox falls back in there as the last hit occurs, he might miss a second hit that would otherwise allow him to ASDI away from the luancher hit simply by holding up. Because of this, Fox is probably the only character who is heavily affected by spacing on this move. I hadn't realized this until i started tesing at 100% for him. The blind spot shouldn't affect others because their gravity *probably* won't be enough to pull them back down to either the blind spot or another multi hit. Fox's gravity also gives really weird results because of how he can fall back into additional hits at certain times, allowing ASDI up to save him from the launcher, and other times gravity causes him to fall back down just in time for the launcher to hit. Fox should not be seen as a baseline to assess the move. I just included him first because he's a common matchup in my area.
0%
Can't escape
Can't escape
-7
Can't escape
-9
50%
Can't escape
0
Can't escape
-1
+1
100%
Can't escape
Close spacing +7, far spacing can't escape
After this point depends heavily on horizontal spacing
Marth
0%
-2
Sometimes -7, sometimes can't escape, dunno why
-5
-3
-1
50%
-4, sometimes 0
I'll do more some other time
For now, marth is more representative of how most of the cast will respond than is fox, who has absurd gravity, higher than any other character by a lot.
Just a quick briefing, ROB's dsmash has four multi hits that lead into the final launching hit. Each consecutive hit is two frames closer to the end of the move, so depending on when the opponent escapes affects frame advantage. The hits also increase damage which increases knockback and hitstun, also affecting the frame advantage.
Under each character will be listed percent values. Under each percent value will be list frame advantages for ROB (negative means advantage for other character). They will be sorted as such:
Character-
XX%
Frame advantage with only ASDI up all hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on first hit + ASDI up all hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on second hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on third hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
Frame advantage with 1 SDI input up on fourth hit + ASDI up all remaining hits
I may not go as far as including all of these, I expect a pattern to emerge where frame advantage for ROB just increases by 2-3 for every hit the opponent doesn't escape. I also won't be including various spacings, I'll just assume the opponent was grounded as they got hit, which is the case most of the time, as the usually get dsmash while in landing lag from a bad aerial approach that got CC'd. Horizontal distance from ROB doesn't really matter either so long as they got hit, since iirc all hitboxes on each part of his arm have the same properties. Lastly, some floaties may be able to act before they touch the ground, in which i'll make a note for that advantage instead of grounded advantage.
Also, technically you can SDI dsmash's hits twice, but idk if that's humanly possible to do consistently.
Anyways:
Fox- Note: due his high gravity, he can often fall back into hits after SDIing out. ROB has a blindspot of hitboxes along his spine, so if fox falls back in there as the last hit occurs, he might miss a second hit that would otherwise allow him to ASDI away from the luancher hit simply by holding up. Because of this, Fox is probably the only character who is heavily affected by spacing on this move. I hadn't realized this until i started tesing at 100% for him. The blind spot shouldn't affect others because their gravity *probably* won't be enough to pull them back down to either the blind spot or another multi hit. Fox's gravity also gives really weird results because of how he can fall back into additional hits at certain times, allowing ASDI up to save him from the launcher, and other times gravity causes him to fall back down just in time for the launcher to hit. Fox should not be seen as a baseline to assess the move. I just included him first because he's a common matchup in my area.
0%
Can't escape
Can't escape
-7
Can't escape
-9
50%
Can't escape
0
Can't escape
-1
+1
100%
Can't escape
Close spacing +7, far spacing can't escape
After this point depends heavily on horizontal spacing
Marth
0%
-2
Sometimes -7, sometimes can't escape, dunno why
-5
-3
-1
50%
-4, sometimes 0
I'll do more some other time
For now, marth is more representative of how most of the cast will respond than is fox, who has absurd gravity, higher than any other character by a lot.
Last edited: