Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[smashkng]

Isn't fair ALONE usually best for downward recovery though? It hits a little bit under Marth (I don't know about DB1) and it autocancels... although usually you're supposed to hit in FRONT of yourself anyways.
DB1 is also an air stall... and so that means you would hang in the air for a bit after getting that hit in.

imo, it's easier for me to actively space fair because I use cstick... but if you use bstick, it might be easier to space the DB1, but I'm not very sure, since you kinda... hang in the air during DB.

Think of DB as a mixup. Especially good when Marth's behind the opponent when landing (don't let the opponent predict it though, it's not a very safe mixups). The opponent spot dodges or attempts to instantly shield grab what hits them when landing and they'll get hit by this move. Yeah DB doesn't hit below Marth and while it's overall much better than DB to hit opponents while trying to land, there are situations in which doing DB instead is worth it. DB beats sidestep and attempts to instantly shield grab (because DB1 to 2 is -5 on block if done as quickly as possible) and there are situations in which hitting with DB grants you better stage control than doing it with Fair (DB4 forward pushes the opponent further and the up variation of DB4 puts the opponenet in the air). Of course, 95% of the time Fair is better in those situations, but it's good to mix it up from time to time and learn things which are situational in case that situation happens.

And yeah exactly as mmKALLL said. First putting the opponent into those bad situations instead of forcing the KO from neutral is a really effective strategy. Marth has plenty of KO moves when he has the opponent into the air/corner/offstage. Like for example, imagine a DK being at 160% scared of you KOing him. So he starts to sit on the shield. Now how do I beat that? Grab of course. Now you throw the DK into the air with Uthrow and then when he tries to land, you hit him with an untippered Fair, putting him offstage. But you're unable to gimp him in that position. So what to do? Just go back onstage and go to the spot which is around the center of the right plaform on BF before DK is able to get onstage. From there, DK doesn't have any real options to get off the ledge, so you just sit there patiently with a few Dtilt here and there to pressure him VERY safely. So you now finally see DK with a ledge climb animation. So NOW you can just with precise timing hit him with a KO move like Dsmash and Fsmash during the right after the invincibility of the ledge climb animation disappears and KO the DK without him being able to do anything about it. Your ability to consistently keep the opponent in a bad position once you gain momentum is extremely important if you want to stand a chance in matchups like Dedede, Snake, DK and ROB.

See now? Damage matters of course, but being aware of there being advantageous positions for you and taking advantage of it is just as important. And while still not 100% guaranteed that you're going to hit the opponent, you can increase the chances of hitting the opponent with a KO move from 50% or less at neutral position to 2/3, 75% or even 100% in some situations if your ability to cover the opponent's options is optimal, while the poor opponent helplessly tries to get back to the ground from the air. Hitting an opponent with something like a Dsmash, Fsmash or a tipper Nair is far more likely when the opponent is trying to land from the air or trying to get off the ledge, than when he sits happily on the center of the stage. So if you for example hit Snake at 150% with Fsmash and he survives it while recovering really high, don't go like "damn it I'm never going to KO him" and let him get back to the ground for free. Be like "you may have survived the Fsmash but you're the one who is now helpless in the air. I'll just keep hitting you in the air until you finally die, whether at 170% or 220%. It's not like you can do much about it".

 

[-Se7en-]

I would like to ask a question that is on the technical side.

@ smashkng - I'm sure you've watched videos of Mr.R or have seen him in person play, but do you have any idea how Mr.R dashes to the right and turns to the left without going in the turnaround dash animation?

He will grab somebody, Fthrow, he dashes the other way and they throw out a random attack but he dashes back at them without ever losing the dash animation, and when he changes directions there is no lag whatsoever.

If you have seen "Force Majuere" Mr.R's final combo video there was a combo Mr.R did on Otori from the Europe vs Japan set that utilized the no lag dash.

 

[mmKALLL]

It's called foxtrotting - you can input a dash in one direction, and on the frames around where it would turn into a run, you can input another initial dash, either in the same or a different direction. You can also do any move at that point by interrupting the new initial dash on some specific frames, the easiest probably is trying to do an fsmash behind you with the c-stick, and especially pivot grabbing at the end of a foxtrot is useful as Marth. What Mr. R is doing, though, is doing a foxtrot, then doing another in the same direction (as it's faster) and canceling that into one going back.

It takes a bit of practice to get the hand of, though. As you can see, it can be used to do pseudo-dashdancing, but you have to be aware that you can't interrupt an initial dash between the startup and the end, which makes dashing back toward your opponent very, very risky. Mr. R knows that the opponent will throw an attack due to his sick mindgames, but it probably will take a while before you are able to make any good use of foxtrotting.

 

[smashkng]

I would like to ask a question that is on the technical side.

@ smashkng - I'm sure you've watched videos of Mr.R or have seen him in person play, but do you have any idea how Mr.R dashes to the right and turns to the left without going in the turnaround dash animation?

He will grab somebody, Fthrow, he dashes the other way and they throw out a random attack but he dashes back at them without ever losing the dash animation, and when he changes directions there is no lag whatsoever.

If you have seen "Force Majuere" Mr.R's final combo video there was a combo Mr.R did on Otori from the Europe vs Japan set that utilized the no lag dash.

It's a fox trot, which then you abuse the ability to dash dance during a fox trot to be able to change direction. Basically, you smash the control stick back, then around frame 17 or some frames later you smash back again and immediately after smash the control stick in the opposite direction. This results in a "sort of" dash dance though it's of course not as good as dash dances in Melee. Still a really useful trick to mix up and approach opponents (dash to shield is a very good approach options when spaced correctly cause it only loses to grab and whatever they hit your shield with you keep going forward even after shielding due to the sliding, especially when you PS). It has to be very well spaced though you don't want to run into moves while you still are unable to shield, but if you do it from an optimal distance it becomes really hard to react to and grab or prepare for a proper answer to this kind of approach.

Marth has a unique dash animation which you can control a bit how long you want the dash to be by holding forward and then slowly tapping the control stick down and back during the initial dash animation and can be made even shorter by dash dancing first backwards (with that I mean smash back and immediately after forward and afterwards doing this dash shorten trick I mentioned before). This shortening trick is great for being able to dash to shield after running a shorter distance (you can't shield during the first 17 frames of the dash, and you gotta hold forward at the same time to shield that early. So shortening the dash is a really useful approach when you're too close to the opponent to dash to shield with the normal long dash Marth has).

 

[-Se7en-]

I see, I'll practice this in a few minutes. I recently learned the Super Ramin Cancel (not mastered) so I could use the tag : Mr R?

Thanks guys. Could I just have a little note of the inputs rather than what is actually takin place?

EDIT : Nevermind, I got it down. I just fox Trot twice in the opposite direction and then immediately turn around at the startup of the second.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

How do you do a running f smash without shield? I see it a lot

 

[C.J.]

Is there anything I need to specifically answer/talk about?

Or can I go back to not going on SWF?

 

[smashkng]

How do you do a running f smash without shield? I see it a lot

All you do is Fox Trot and within 5 frames you smash the stick forward the second time you tap the C stick forward.

Is there anything I need to specifically answer/talk about?

Or can I go back to not going on SWF?

Welcome back CJ! Not really but it could happen that we'd need if someone asks about a specific matchup like Diddy, although that hasn't happened so far.

 

[-Se7en-]

All you do is Fox Trot and within 5 frames you smash the stick forward the second time you tap the C stick forward.

Welcome back CJ! Not really but it could happen that we'd need if someone asks about a specific matchup like Diddy, although that hasn't happened so far.

That's actually what I came to ask about.

The other question is about grab release dair on MK. I saw a video on YouTube by Shaya (his voice is amazing, no homo). What would the inputs be from the release animation and at what point would I buffer the dash.

 

[smashkng]

That's actually what I came to ask about.

The other question is about grab release dair on MK. I saw a video on YouTube by Shaya (his voice is amazing, no homo). What would the inputs be from the release animation and at what point would I buffer the dash.

You buffer the dash and at a certain point of the dash press jump and then afterwards tap the C stick down. At which point to buffer the dash? It's not something that can be answered. It's all about muscle memory and you can't dodge practice. Just try to find the moment to buffer the dash by buffering shield in training mode. Then afterwards try finding the timing of the dash by smashing the control stick right before that moment you memorised leads to holding shield. A good way to know if you're buffering the dash correctly is if you're able to consistently grab release MK into tipper dash attack. If everything's buffered it should tipper.

 

[-Se7en-]

You buffer the dash and at a certain point of the dash press jump and then afterwards tap the C stick down. At which point to buffer the dash? It's not something that can be answered. It's all about muscle memory and you can't dodge practice. Just try to find the moment to buffer the dash by buffering shield in training mode. Then afterwards try finding the timing of the dash by smashing the control stick right before that moment you memorised leads to holding shield. A good way to know if you're buffering the dash correctly is if you're able to consistently grab release MK into tipper dash attack. If everything's buffered it should tipper.

I can buffer dash attack. So I buffer *then quickly hit a jump button and slam my c stick down?

 

[smashkng]

I can buffer dash attack. So I buffer *then quickly hit a jump button and slam my c stick down?

Not exactly. You need to dash for a bit of time before pressing the jump button. Otherwise you'll be too far from MK for the Dair to connect. But even that timing is possible to learn. I do buffer the Dair after pressing jump though. And keep holding forward during the jumping.

 

[-Se7en-]

Not exactly. You need to dash for a bit of time before pressing the jump button. Otherwise you'll be too far from MK for the Dair to connect. But even that timing is possible to learn. I do buffer the Dair after pressing jump though. And keep holding forward during the jumping.

I see, Thank you.

 

[ECHOnce]

Hey Brawl Marths, had a quick question. I just recently started trying to get into Brawl, and have been considering mains/secondaries. I immediately gravitated towards Marth, since I secondary him in PM and Melee, and am hoping to make him into my main in at least the latter. But that in itself creates a bit of a problem; being my main in those games means that I have to be on top of my tech skill with him. When I play him in Brawl, it feels like I'm only good at him because I'm already used to the range of his moves; my movement with him is terrible, since I'm awkwardly trying to avoid using Melee tech with all my built up muscle memory and all.

Would you recommend I continue pursuing him as a main/secondary? He's definitely my current best in Brawl, but I feel like the differences in terms of movement between Melee/PM Marth and Brawl Marth will hinder my improvement with him in one or both games. Based on your own experiences, will this become less of an issue over time, so long as I commit to both by trying to solidify in my mind (before and during matches) that they're two distinct characters? (e.g. different colors, other ideas?) If I do choose him, who would you recommend as a primary/secondary main to compliment him in Brawl, in terms of similar "feel" or MUs? Or should I give up on him if practicing him in Brawl starts to hinder my PM/Melee Marth tech skill (hasn't yet), and pursue other Brawl characters to main?

 

[smashkng]

Hey Brawl Marths, had a quick question. I just recently started trying to get into Brawl, and have been considering mains/secondaries. I immediately gravitated towards Marth, since I secondary him in PM and Melee, and am hoping to make him into my main in at least the latter. But that in itself creates a bit of a problem; being my main in those games means that I have to be on top of my tech skill with him. When I play him in Brawl, it feels like I'm only good at him because I'm already used to the range of his moves; my movement with him is terrible, since I'm awkwardly trying to avoid using Melee tech with all my built up muscle memory and all.

Would you recommend I continue pursuing him as a main/secondary? He's definitely my current best in Brawl, but I feel like the differences in terms of movement between Melee/PM Marth and Brawl Marth will hinder my improvement with him in one or both games. Based on your own experiences, will this become less of an issue over time, so long as I commit to both by trying to solidify in my mind (before and during matches) that they're two distinct characters? (e.g. different colors, other ideas?) If I do choose him, who would you recommend as a primary/secondary main to compliment him in Brawl, in terms of similar "feel" or MUs? Or should I give up on him if practicing him in Brawl starts to hinder my PM/Melee Marth tech skill (hasn't yet), and pursue other Brawl characters to main?

Depends on how much effort you are willing to put into the game. I main Marth in both Melee and Brawl it has kinda been the opposite for me (using Marth in Brawl first and then going into Melee). I've had some problems at the beginning, like the slight difference in range but I've eventually been able not to get affected too much from maining both Melee and Brawl Marth. So yes it can be confusing to use them both at the beginning, but by playing both games you can remove that problem. They're pretty different characters though for the most part and I still am not sure which version is better because each is so good at their own things. But personally I'd say that Melee Marth is overall an easier character than Brawl Marth is due to more simple option picking of Melee Marth and the fact that his tipper hitboxes are larger.

Brawl Marth's not hard to pick up, but to make him play and be as effective as the other top tiers it takes a lot of dedication because you have to be very precise with the options you pick compared to characters like Snake, Falco or MK. Like for example if MK's most effective tools are Ftilt, Up b and Tornado and Snake's are Ftilt, Grenade and Utilt, Marth's a combination of every move he has, other than Bthrow. Which means that to do well with him you need to have a very deep understanding of this character if you want to be as effective as those characters as Math. Marth also gets massively buffed if you're consistent with tippering when it's possible to do. Because Marth's killing problems gets greatly mitigated if you're able to pretty consistently tipper. Spacing with Marth is very important for other things too, like avoiding getting punished for throwing out aerials (if you're consistent with your spacing, you can pressure opponents very reliably once you get in on them, watch out for GSL if you're facing MK though). Marth's lack of long lasting hitboxes (other than Nair and DB) are other factors which increase Marth's learning curve. If you just want to play Marth, then sure he's still fun. But if you want to do things like pressure, juggle, ledge trap and especially win without putting much effort into the game, characters like MK are a better choice. There is a reason why there much more MK than Marth mains out there. I kept with Marth though cause I enjoy Marth's air mobility and tippering too much and like it more when things take more effort to execute properly while still having large amount of options and mixups.

So should you main/secondary Marth? It depends on how much you appreciate dedication and if you just want to play this game. He's fun regardless if you want to be good with him or not. Because of the dedication it takes to be good with him, I can't recommend him as a pocket character. There are many pocket MKs out there but not many good players secondary Marth. There is a reason for that. I believe that ROB is overall easier to learn to use than Marth is though I don't think Pit is. But at higher level it becomes obvious that Marth is by far the best character out of the three. If you want an "easy" version of Marth, then just use MK haga. But if you don't care about doing well and just want to enjoy the game, Marth is still a fun character to use.

 

[Jinx129]

I know this thread is dead but I have a grab release thaat works that is not listed.
On Smashville's platform you can grab release to stutter step Fsmash tipper on Pikachu. The stutter step needs to be almost immediate. I say this cause for those who dont know you can delay it a bit to stutter step farther.

What is "stutter step"?

 

[CURRY]

What is "stutter step"?

Same thing as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9oqJEXYMM&list=PL9esNp9LRV2QcWcbiFF_x8mEKtGj46lo2&channel=dphanna

Also called a "Foxtrot".

 

[mmKALLL]

As far as technical terms go, I've never heard stutter step being called a foxtrot - my own distinction being that stutter step is essentially an initial dash cancel (often into fsmash) that is done for a small spacing correction or distance boost, whereas foxtrot is a single initial dash.

 

[C.J.]

Foxtrotting is an action of canceling one full dash into another one.
Stutter stepping is canceling the very beginning of an ID into an attack (typically for spacing purposes)

For whoever asked about Diddy, literally google diddy tips and item tricks (I think that my guide's name at least)


I'm bored again and leaving. Someone tag me if they want me to come back.

 

[Zano]

CJ come back

 

[CURRY]

omg. Shaya's new avatar is so cute.
Anyway.

With SDI, 90% of the time, do you try to SDI up? I know you're supposed to SDI AWAY from the hitboxes. But SDIing up never really made sense to me because wouldn't you just fall back into the attack (especially if you don't have your DJ?)

I've tried my hardest to SDI horizontally, and it has almost never really worked out...

 

[Yuta]

Is there a Marth moveset guide or at least a thread with pics of Marth's hitboxes? The marth guide to guides doesn't list one...

@ CURRY , SDI is mainly used to get out of multi hit moves such as MK's ftilt, and is sometimes used to move yourself farther from the edge of the screen during hitstun to live longer ( if your reflexes are fast enough )

 

[smashkng]

omg. Shaya's new avatar is so cute.
Anyway.

With SDI, 90% of the time, do you try to SDI up? I know you're supposed to SDI AWAY from the hitboxes. But SDIing up never really made sense to me because wouldn't you just fall back into the attack (especially if you don't have your DJ?)

I've tried my hardest to SDI horizontally, and it has almost never really worked out...

Smash DIing up helps vs aerials like Snake's falling Nair. But actually, you usually don't have to Smash DI cause you can just mash Up b to get out right before getting hit the last, powerful hit. And Smash DIing up and away and then using Fair is an excellent and safe thing to do vs Falco's jab (another, riskier alternative is not Smash DIing and mashing Up b between jab 2 and 3). I believe it's possible to react to getting hit by jab and Smash DIing very quickly to hit that Fair on him.
And Yuta yes you can do it to live longer, but I've never heard of anyone Smash DIing with the purpose of survive a hit longer. It'd have to be a very hard prediction and you having really quick hands for Smash DIing with that purpose to matter significantly.

Is there a Marth moveset guide or at least a thread with pics of Marth's hitboxes? The marth guide to guides doesn't list one...

@ CURRY , SDI is mainly used to get out of multi hit moves such as MK's ftilt, and is sometimes used to move yourself farther from the edge of the screen during hitstun to live longer ( if your reflexes are fast enough )

There is this, which has worked for me very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAWoZsGpwQ

It's good to be aware of the deceiving vertical hitboxes of Fsmash and knowing that Usmash has much more horizontal range than it looks like, while Dtilt reaching much higher than it appears to reach.

 

[Taytertot]

I'm curious what moves, if any (though I'm sure there are), have enough super armor to take a tipper DS? Even if its a low tier id like to know. olimar's downB? ike's eruption?

 

[smashkng]

I'm curious what moves, if any (though I'm sure there are), have enough super armor to take a tipper DS? Even if its a low tier id like to know. olimar's downB? ike's eruption?

The only things with armor which aren't fully super armor are Yoshi's double jump and Snake's Cypher. During Yoshi's double jump he either super armors it completely or gets hit with full knockback depending on if the border of max knockback he can super armor is crossed or not (that means that an MK Uair at 0% will be super armored while an Ike Fsmash at 80% is going to hit through Yoshi's double jump with full knockback and likely KO him as well). Snake's Cypher super armors anything that deals EXACTLY 7% damage or lower IN A SINGLE HIT regardless of knockback (keep in mind that there is a hidden decimal in %s, so a move that deals 7.1% will hit through Snake with full knockback).

Only grabs can't be super armored. All other moves with super armor will super armor anything regardless of knockback if the hitbox of the move connects during those super armor frames. So yes whether it is Marth's tipper DS or even Marth's Final Smash, you get touched during super armor frames and you'll take full damage but no hitstun or knockback at all.

 

[Taytertot]

The only things with armor which aren't fully super armor are Yoshi's double jump and Snake's Cypher. During Yoshi's double jump he either super armors it completely or gets hit with full knockback depending on if the border of max knockback he can super armor is crossed or not (that means that an MK Uair at 0% will be super armored while an Ike Fsmash at 80% is going to hit through Yoshi's double jump with full knockback and likely KO him as well). Snake's Cypher super armors anything that deals EXACTLY 7% damage or lower IN A SINGLE HIT regardless of knockback (keep in mind that there is a hidden decimal in %s, so a move that deals 7.1% will hit through Snake with full knockback).

Only grabs can't be super armored. All other moves with super armor will super armor anything regardless of knockback if the hitbox of the move connects during those super armor frames. So yes whether it is Marth's tipper DS or even Marth's Final Smash, you get touched during super armor frames and you'll take full damage but no hitstun or knockback at all.

Ah thank you. the reason i was curious is because i was considering in theory what situations i can DS Oos without worrying about my opponent being able continue whatever attack i would hypothetically be trying to counter with DS as a read or counter depending on the speed of their attack.

 

[Shaya]

This isn't Project M, if you're getting confused about which board you're on.

 

[Nike.]

How's the Leon Shrine looking?

 

[Shaya]

It's tip is still sharp and very effective.

 

[Taytertot]

This isn't Project M, if you're getting confused about which board you're on.

nope i was referring to brawl. i actually dont play PM much though it is fun.

 

[feardragon64]

Question: Why is this the only thread in the Marth forum with posts in the past few weeks? =[

 

[1PokeMastr]

It's the only thread worth keeping active for Marth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2BCSAVGyAFA

 

[Dagon97]

in tournament when i am getting juggled by someone a wolf player for example i use the dbstall to mess up the spacing of wolf's fair/uair, are there better options for marth?

also, how long does it take to run out of invincibility in the ledge?

 

[smashkng]

in tournament when i am getting juggled by someone a wolf player for example i use the dbstall to mess up the spacing of wolf's fair/uair, are there better options for marth?

also, how long does it take to run out of invincibility in the ledge?

The main thing I do when I'm above the opponent is simply do everything not to be directly above the opponent. Marth doesn't really have any real options there except using Dair which well, is very laggy, has very few active frames on the hitbox and some Uairs outrange it. Fortunately, Marth has some good options to make it very difficult for the opponent to have Marth be there. Marth's horizontal aerial speed is fast and his double jump also allows Marth to jump decently fairly far horizontally. So I use Marth's mobility to try to be more like diagonally above the opponent (and in front of the opponent) where the opponent will have more trouble chasing me and where Fair becomes a good anti-juggle move (Fair can protect Marth fairly well from a lot of angles, it even hits slightly below Marth's hurtbox). Double jumping away and then fast fall air dodge is often a pretty strong option. If done correctly it will be difficult for the opponent to chase down a Marth trying to land then. I only let myself be directly above the opponent when I know the opponent is going to make a huge commitment which I can just fast fall air dodge through. As a last resort not to get hit, you can go to the ledge. Still mix your attempts to get down with DB b reversals, air dodge timings and such. Keep the opponent guessing!

Wolf's Fair outranges Marth's but it still has the weakness of a lot of aerial cooldown and landing lag so he has to auto cancel it in order for the move not to be laggy. So air dodging it once while you're not near the ground can help you avoid that Fair. You can also be just outside the range of Wolf's Fair and yourself use Fair while Wolf has extended his hurtbox to beat it. His Uair however is much less laggy but it has worse range so it's easier to straight out beat with Fair. Keep also in mind that Wolf's fall speed is only very barely faster than his normal fall speed. so some of his ways of juggling can get a bit more limited because of it. Wolf still juggles Marth pretty well but don't get flustered of getting hit once. Taking 1 juggle hit and then getting back to the ground isn't that bad at all. And once you finally can get back to the ground, a well spaced Fair is safe on shield.

Ledge invincibilty lasts for around 45 frames (don't remember exactly). You can start releasing the ledge from frame 26 and do all the other ledge climb options after 24 frames. Keep in mind though that ledge drop is NOT bufferable and the same thing with the options you do after the ledge jump, but you can buffer the ledge jump itself and all of the other ledge climb options (normal, roll and get up attack). If frame perfect you should get up to around 21 frames of any invincible move from ledge drop and up to around 11 frames of any invincible move from a ledge jump when below 100% (above 100% ledge jump is laggier so you can get at best fully invincible ledge jump to DS when frame perfect, which is both very hard and too high risk to be practical most of the time). That's why Marth's ledge jump Fair below 100% is an effective option. Don't be predictable with it though.

 

[Dagon97]

can you sdi aerial db into uair/fair because a lot of the people at the weeklies i have been going to do that.

 

[1PokeMastr]

No but they can also just hold shield and the aerial won't hit (if they're grounded) and they can footstool you if they're close enough (if you're in the air) or they can do a move faster than 6 frames and hit you with it after the db (if they reacted/ anticipated it)

So no, they can't sdi it.

If you have trouble landing it, try mixing it up, If it's vs a grounded opponent, sh db 1 -> crossup air dodge -> buffer turnaround grab is always nice, or you can just delay the aerial.

 

[C.J.]

FEARDRAGON HI
HI FEARDRAGON
WE MISS YOU

 

[mikeHAZE]

No but they can also just hold shield and the aerial won't hit (if they're grounded) and they can footstool you if they're close enough (if you're in the air) or they can do a move faster than 6 frames and hit you with it after the db (if they reacted/ anticipated it)

So no, they can't sdi it.

If you have trouble landing it, try mixing it up, If it's vs a grounded opponent, sh db 1 -> crossup air dodge -> buffer turnaround grab is always nice, or you can just delay the aerial.

This sounds so cool but i can't imagine it working LOL

 

[1PokeMastr]

This sounds so cool but i can't imagine it working LOL

If you aerial after the sh db1 enough, they'll wait and go for the grab.

THEN BAM YOU AIRDODGE AND GRAB THEIR GRAB

 

[mikeHAZE]

If you aerial after the sh db1 enough, they'll wait and go for the grab.

THEN BAM YOU AIRDODGE AND GRAB THEIR GRAB

u r rite