Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[NH Cody]

no oo lol.

 

[Sar]

Thanks guys, helped out a lot.

And yeah its true that grabs are good. It's just discouraging when you do get the grab and then do... 6 damage. Discouraging but essential.

 

[C.J.]

is this what you meant lol

Partially- you adapt well so I was thinking more stuff like how to use grabs to condition people/conditioning people to get grabbed/using various throws to confuse DI for easier follow-ups, etc

Don't we get GR spike too if Falco air breaks?

That'd be awesome, but, no =(

 

[NH Cody]

I saw Mr. R doing GR tipper dair on wario at apex. Is this guaranteed?

 

[C.J.]

Yeah, it makes for a good tech chase. It's cake to execute too.

 

[NH Cody]

You think it would be more advantageous to do that than utilt or usmash at low/mid %s?

 

[C.J.]

Ehh, super player dependent. I'll do a more detailed explanation when i feel like getting up to go to my computer.

 

[Keys1281]

I think GR->USmash is the best option unless they are near the ledge when you spike. Could lead to an early kill from a tech chase or good stage positioning (assuming they can SDI back on stage...otherwise Dair lol).

Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a17uMmuazGU&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s

 

[PEACE7]

Spade that looked sexy af

 

[Ayce God]

you spend so much time on the ledge

 

[Pr0phetic]

I'd do aerials from low to mid %s, and let the % I grab them at in the high damage range + move decay dictate what I'd use next

 

[KillerAP]

How do you pivot grab on the spot i.e. from standing? I mean the one with the sliding animation like when dashing, I've done it by accident a few times and figured if it exists I should learn it.

Also, is reversing a foxtrot into a grab reasonable/safe/etc?

 

[Pr0phetic]

How do you pivot grab on the spot i.e. from standing? I mean the one with the sliding animation like when dashing, I've done it by accident a few times and figured if it exists I should learn it.

Also, is reversing a foxtrot into a grab reasonable/safe/etc?

Input a dash and then directly after press the opposite direction + Z

Also, is reversing a foxtrot into a grab reasonable/safe/etc?

There's a raised risk of tripping but it couldn't hurt as a mixup in your grab game.

 

[KillerAP]

1) Why is wavebouncing not really used (at least from what I've seen) by Marths? I feel like it could be something to use when falling back with a fair/nair, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

2) I've just started to try to play competitively (went to one tourney but didn't use Marth), but I don't have too many chances to play with other people, about once a week. How does one practice on one's own as a Marth?

 

[SSS]

How should you punish when you know somebody is going to bait a counter?

 

[C.J.]

1) Why is wavebouncing not really used (at least from what I've seen) by Marths? I feel like it could be something to use when falling back with a fair/nair, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

2) I've just started to try to play competitively (went to one tourney but didn't use Marth), but I don't have too many chances to play with other people, about once a week. How does one practice on one's own as a Marth?

What are you going to wavebounce with? SB? Lags too hard (on top of slowish start-up) to be a reliable mix-up. DB1 is weird w/ momentum so you won't really move anywhere and just have your hitboxes shifted around some. Counter has the combined issues of both the above + having no cover on his feet.

Spacing spacing spacing is the most important thing you can practice alone. Secondary to that, more spacing.

Movement/character control is also top tier in things to punish. Outside of that, get your auto-pilot/follow-ups down perfectly Have your low % grab options + GR options down perfectly as well.

How should you punish when you know somebody is going to bait a counter?

You... hit them. If they're waiting for counter, that means they're not using an attack. So you can just hit them.



Expect my aforementioned Wario things in a thread I'm making atm.

 

[SSS]

What are you going to wavebounce with? SB? Lags too hard (on top of slowish start-up) to be a reliable mix-up. DB1 is weird w/ momentum so you won't really move anywhere and just have your hitboxes shifted around some. Counter has the combined issues of both the above + having no cover on his feet.

Spacing spacing spacing is the most important thing you can practice alone. Secondary to that, more spacing.

Movement/character control is also top tier in things to punish. Outside of that, get your auto-pilot/follow-ups down perfectly Have your low % grab options + GR options down perfectly as well.


You... hit them. If they're waiting for counter, that means they're not using an attack. So you can just hit them.



Expect my aforementioned Wario things in a thread I'm making atm.

I guess my question is how do you bait a counter bait?

 

[C.J.]

You don't- Counter is a move you should almost never use. Your opponent shouldn't be expecting counter as a result.

 

[DARKREVOLVER]

i was playing and thats what had happened, how to do it? haha look at black marth(me)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wreiQ9awu_c

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the knockback caused by Kirby's Fsmash.... Maybe a better video quality (or at least less shaky) could help to see what happened.

 

[C.J.]

When carrying momentum, (usually through windboxes but apparently residual slide works as well), Marth's DB causes a huge slide. For the easiest example, go to PS2, wait until the treadmills, get on one facing outwards, right before you go off the ledge, use DB1 and you'll go flying.

 

[DARKREVOLVER]

yeah im sure was that but i touch the ground before going away and thats what i think is weird (sorry for that english i hope is enough to understand me xD)

 

[C.J.]

You were still retaining a slight slide from the momentum from the fsmash.

 

[Shaya]

You know the stage transitioning for Castle Siege?

Time a DB1 coming from below a ledge as the stage transforms for absolute stupidity if you're perfect.

 

[C.J.]

Oh yeah, i forgot about that one hahaha

 

[Shaya]

So had I until yesterday, haha.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

No wonder you Marth mains are doing so well...you guys spend lots of time talking/developing/helping new players. You guys are like the ideal character forum :D

 

[Ayce God]

it's uh front, there's actually more talk of ponies and other nonsense, than there is learning. but don't say anything.

 

[SSS]

Isn't Marth great? I think we should all take a few moments from our day to appreciate forward air and Dolphin Slash.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Marth boards happen to have (mainly) Shaya, Pierce and CJ, who really help players with technical stuff, specific data, theorycraft, and much more.

 

[Pr0phetic]

If you think the boards are helpful now, you shoulda been in here from '08 - '10 lol

 

[Kel]

What does the castle siege thing do?

And yes, the Marth boards are amazing.

I personally always GR usmash wario as it does the most damage/ unstales other moves you will typically hit Wario with. If I am under a platform, I GR to utilt him. If I grab him at the very edge of a stage, I GR spike him. The only exception to this is when I know a GR tipper fsmash will hit/ I am technically on at the time. If you miss a GR you will get uaired or wafted. I never do the reverse tipper fsmash, as it seems unneccessary and the timing is super hard. regular tipper fsmash is fairly easy to time as you just dash and fsmash essentially asap.

 

[C.J.]

@prophetic- yeah, me, shaya, pierce, steel, EL, active neo, junk

Was nice

Kel- my new thread has a section about gr on wario and pros for each option.
Also, reverse fsmash sends at a "straighter" angle so it is harder to DI effectively.

 

[Kel]

It's also nearly impossible to do, unless I'm missing something.

 

[C.J.]

Nah, it's just muscle memory. I saw ramin and leon get it ten plus straight times at apex.

 

[clowsui]

It's also nearly impossible to do, unless I'm missing something.

No it isn't

Do it on reaction

don't do it as a timing input. that messes w you as percentages change.

do it according to the wario's height. you will achieve 80-90% consistency this way. vs blue rogue at RAGE when we did our MM i achieved something like 5/9 kills from grab release fsmash and i also landed about 1-2 more that didn't kill.

forward facing fsmash is possible from GR btw. should be a minor stutter forward. when the wario is just a little bit above where the tip of your sword would be if you fsmashed right there, do the fsmash. if you practice enough you'll be able to easily tell if you're doing it too early or late

 

[Kel]

Yeah I can do it facing forward pretty consistantly. I don't really get how the reverse one is supposed to be easy though. It seems you have to do the opposite way Fsmash on one of the last frames of Marth's dash animation. It seems too risky when GR regular tipper Fsmash is much easier to time.

 

[Ayce God]

how can you do tipper fsmash and not reverse tipper fsmash. it's the exact same conditions

 

[Kel]

When doing forward tipper Fsmash I just hit over on the joystick and c stick almost together as soon as I get control of marth.

When I try that with reverse tipper fsmash my sword doesn't reach Wario's ***

 

[Shaya]

@ castle siege.

Unlike PS2 where marth flies off horizontally, on castle siege if he dbs well, he goes flying off vertically.

Other than Smashville's platform, Marth gets fair, nair and uair out of grab releases on wario. Doing fair is actually really good on BF for example early because his only escape option is going to the top platform from that situation, so you can hard read and hopefully **** him out of a jump.