Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Nysyarc]

but ike still gets grabbed from time to time, so its only a 50-50

Yah, really without the chain grabs it would be a very big jump in Ike's favor, I'd even go so far as to say his best (theoretical) match-up. Ice Climbers just have absolutely nothing to punish Ike's range if he spaces properly. Popo alone vs. Ike is practically un-winnable for Popo as long as Ike spaces well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

http://www.smashboards.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=172830

Curse you bored! ;_;

 

[Teh Brettster]

Wow, MASSIVE post count ****. 5 more until he reaches 1000.

*buys balloons*

 

[Nysyarc]

Wow... two thirds of his total posts have been in this thread, lol. I'm willing to bet at least 95% of his total posts are in the Ike boards in general.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Hell, I know that's true for me.

 

[theeboredone]

I don't bother going out. I'm a conservative. I stick to my roots.

Since we're talking about ICs, one thing that has always bothered me is when (I think) Popo does blizzard on the ground, and Nana jumps above him and does blizzard, creating a huge wall. Normally I can't get through that with F-air. Am I just spacing it wrong, or should I approach it differently.

 

[Nysyarc]

Since we're talking about ICs, one thing that has always bothered me is when (I think) Popo does blizzard on the ground, and Nana jumps above him and does blizzard, creating a huge wall. Normally I can't get through that with F-air. Am I just spacing it wrong, or should I approach it differently.

Fair's hitbox can get past it from above and out at a diagonal a bit (not sure if it outranges Blizzard horizontally), but it's not the easiest way IMO. While doing the Blizzard Wall the Ice Climbers can't really do much if you jump right over top of them. I mean they can try to predict and see it coming but they still can't punish you in any way, all they can do is run away in the opposite direction and maybe set up another wall. If you manage to get above them and they haven't stopped the wall yet, just Dair/Nair/Uair/Bair... basically whatever you want to them.

If they notice your intent is to jump over them and stop the wall early, just get grounded and reset your spacing, which should always be sort of Fair distance away so they don't have time to set up another wall and they can't get a grab.

Either way, the wall really isn't a big problem for Ike. I mean it's not like they can camp you with it if they have a higher % on them than you do, they have to approach at some point (Ice Blocks are a garbage projectile). And it takes so long for the move to finish that jumping over them is a viable way to force them to stop, and they can't punish you due to how slow they are and their poor grab range.

Just my outlook on it, it's worked for me against many good IC players, and they all gave up on doing the Blizzard Wall pretty fast.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Hey guys just had to tell everybody happy 4th of July. I know I'm late but hope you guys had fun!

Well my Fourth of July went like this. Because it's almost second nature, I went to mass. Afterwards me and my bro headed to a friend's house and we played Brawl, MW2, and watched him play FF XIII. Came home to watch the fire works show and other stuff. Would have ended well except that there was a murder or something that happened. Cops arrived along with some investigators. I was able to sleep soundly despite the blaring lights outside. My condolences to those who lost someone close to them.

 

[Teh Brettster]

You can counter blizzard and it will hit through. Good idea to counter Popo's blizzard.

 

[Palpi]

I was #1 for a little while, then I stopped posting xD

 

[jamlosingthegame]

lol I was looking through YouTube and was thinking to myself: "Is there anyone else named JAM who plays brawl." So I searched "jam ike" on YouTube and there were several people. This was one vid I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quHeuIaeN2Q&feature=related . The first thought in my head was: "lol he uses the same color Ike I used back then" (and still do). Just something funny I found.

 

[theeboredone]

You can counter blizzard and it will hit through. Good idea to counter Popo's blizzard.

Counter is a good option, but you can't use it often like F-air, because it's easy to read and seen coming. On top of that, I've actually countered blizzard, but missed the ensuing attack =/.

 

[Teh Brettster]

That's weird. I've never seen counter miss blizzard. Might have been at awkward spacing like at the very top of blizzard or something. But you can literally react to blizzard with counter, instead of having to hard read, which makes it safer than normal IMO.

 

[Nysyarc]

I dunno about Counter on it... if it gets predicted or whiffed, they could get a grab on you much more easily than if you spaced an Fair or jumped over them. I mean maybe that's a rare scenario but a skilled IC player getting a grab on you off a poorly timed or predicted Counter attempt = a stock more often than not. It just takes too long to end.

 

[Mr. Doom]

If properly spaced, the counter attack from blizzard will miss the ICs. The blizzard hitbubbles extend slightly farther than the counter hitbubbles.

 

[san.]

If you manage to get above the ICs player using blizzard, it is much easier to hit with fair.

 

[Meru.]

Hello my good swordsmen, Peach has sent you an invitation for her rediscussion party here.

Cya!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*sigh*

Somebody explain to them how Peach doesn't have a large advantage. Because I've only seen one reply so far, and that's what it's implying. I'm not in the mood for a MU discussion personally.

 

[Nysyarc]

*sigh*

Somebody explain to them how Peach doesn't have a large advantage. Because I've only seen one reply so far, and that's what it's implying. I'm not in the mood for a MU discussion personally.

I gave them a visit. Tried to give them a more balanced look at it without making Ike sound overpowered in the MU. The guy was using a lot of variables and assumptions, more geared towards MU advice than facts for a MU ratio.

 

[san.]

I just gave some of my thoughts. It's up to them to think how much it may affect how they perceive the MU.

 

[theeboredone]

Likewise, Niddo I finally understand why you tend to get so PO'd about this stuff. That guy is annoying me already. He's calling it a 60-40 match up at best. I didn't know Peach was as tough as Snake -.-

 

[Nysyarc]

My point is that everything Ike does is punishable on block.

I understand what I'm saying might sound a bit ridiculous but trust me it works.

I'm assuming DACIT is dash attack cancelled something or other...can you expand on that?

...

I say we just let them work it out for themselves from here, we've done enough. I don't feel like another long-winded debate where I likely won't change anyone's opinion. If they agree on 60-40 Peach's favor, at least we can surprise them in an actual match...

 

[AN(M)ist]

say, why doesn't anyone one of you challenge this rickydodado or some peach main he values in order to settle the match up.
In fact, I always think MU discussion should be ended with a small one-on-one battle between two high class players of discussed characters if any one of them end up ranting

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, if you're serious, that likely wouldn't be possible except over WiFi. He's in England so I guess G.P could show him up, but he obviously doesn't play G.P very often (if at all) or is a better player than him, because he has a pretty bias opinion towards the MU. 60-40 is pretty far off standard, he even threw 65-35 out there in his last post, even if he said it was a stretch, but that implies he thinks it's slightly worse than 60-40 for Ike.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Look, if you're unhappy about what I've put then please at least debate with me rather than sulk with me :/

Maybe I am wrong about the match up and if thats the case I am very willing to say that I'm wrong

I think I may have exaggerated slightly on the Turnip thing but it is a good tactic for Peach to employ

So yea, I apologise if I've caused any offense, I'd be pleased if we could resume the discussion :/ I don't represent the whole Peach community and besides, that was only my opinion
I shouldn't write stuff at midnight ><

Edit: Also, I meant I'm unaware as to what DACIT stands for :x Whats the IT bit?

 

[AN(M)ist]

my bad... its just that i hate the phrase "i don't see how ike can possibly beat X or ike simply doesn't have the tools to deal with X's options" even after we give sound arguments.

nyways, so far its only this guy from peaches side, others have yet to show up. hopefully they'll be more fair

Edit: o hello, i didn't see you there. just took a little while to type my post. no hard feelings i suppose

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lol I feel awful/guilty now :/ You guys didn't really need to get distressed over on person just throwing some stuff out :/

...

I say we just let them work it out for themselves from here, we've done enough. I don't feel like another long-winded debate where I likely won't change anyone's opinion. If they agree on 60-40 Peach's favor, at least we can surprise them in an actual match...

Well, if you're serious, that likely wouldn't be possible except over WiFi. He's in England so I guess G.P could show him up, but he obviously doesn't play G.P very often (if at all) or is a better player than him, because he has a pretty bias opinion towards the MU. 60-40 is pretty far off standard, he even threw 65-35 out there in his last post, even if he said it was a stretch, but that implies he thinks it's slightly worse than 60-40 for Ike.

In my defense, you all posted once, responded to me once and then went into despair over here :/ You make it sound like I'm posting for the entire Peach community which simply isn't true
If someone is wrong (which in this case you guys certainly think I am) then prove them wrong, please don't just despair. Looking back on what I wrote I will agree, what I put could be taken as slightly bias/extreme and I apologise for that but I some of my points I thought were reasonably legit. I am very open and willing to listen/reason with match ups

My ratios may be different from your view of ratios, mine may be more extreme

Edit: Found one...this is a more visual demonstration of what I'm trying to get at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uu5V1UZaNo#t=3m30s

Ike's moves hit Peach's shield and Peach can throw the Turnip to hit Ike on block

What I'm getting at is that Peach can do this to nearly all of Ike's moves if they hit her shield because of their ending lag
Thats why I think Peach has an advantage. The vid also shows that Ike rolls away if Peach is pressurising his shield with Turnips/Fair/Dair. Does Ike have any OoS options to those tactics? I feel that he doesn't, again why I thought the match up is in Peach's favour

Aether is something san mentioned and I admit I completely forgot, spamming on the ledge is a tactic that Peach doesn't really have a huge amount of answers to minus getting a lucky Turnip hit in (or Toad) but doesn't Ike have a limit of how many times he can Aether on the ledge?

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Umm... What's DACIT? Dash attack cancelled ____ Turnip?
(I wonder when will my noob questions stop?)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

This is exactly what I was wondering lol

It's not a Jump Cancelled Throw is it?

 

[Foodies]

Dash attack canceled item toss.

And I don't think I have enough experience to comment on the matchup. Boo.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ohhhhhh right. Couldn't you guys have simply told me that in the first place?

I'm not sure about that being a wise approach option though, a good surprise tactic maybe

I'm not talking about throwing Turnips like a normal item though, I'm talking about using them to punish Ike and in that case, he won't be able to catch them

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Not picking on you exactly Rick, but you basically started off the MU discussion with a certain type/style of post. That type of post is one the Ike board members (like me in particular) have gotten very sick of, namely "Perfect Shield/Shield/Dodge anything that isn't jab and punish accordingly with X move, our advantage." The vast, vast majority of the time that one of those styles of posts are made, the person who made said post will not move from the position that he or she will never get hit by anything other then jab. Quite often the majority of that character board will agree with that statement. Que 20+ post argument. If you want to see just how bad this can get: try to dig up a Mario vs Ike MU discussion with A2 involved.

This is why our own MU numbers are done without input from other boards: arguments don't do anything, yet one will occur too often.

That, and I am honestly tired of discussing MUs. <_< Our metagame is fairly stable right now, it's more a matter of ironing out a few weaknesses, and further analyzing stage choices.

 

[san.]

Well, at least we know now japanese Ikes are also getting that bthrow--> DA love, lol. I lol'd when the peach got hit by like 3 of those in a row.


Since it's their matchup ratio topic, I'm just there to provide helpful info. It's their decision to decide what the ratio is. I don't really get pissed about MU discussions, because there's some things about many characters I don't know crap about, too (so I don't inquire much into stuff like that). Best just to provide your own insight unless they need certain information.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ah I see. Well I apologise in that case for causing any upset, tired johns on the way my post was written. Without bigging myself up I am very willing to listen to reason and change my viewpoint if proved so

Without wanting to offend, I hope you can see the legitmacey of the OoS/Glide Tossed Turnip tactic I'm suggesting though because unlike characters such as Mario, the Turnip offers Peach a long range, fast OoS option. Try it out, it works against other characters aswell, not just Ike

I'm basing my experiece on the Ike's I've fought, mainly on the one I fight a lot offline and he's getting pretty good now. I feel OoS Turnips are a good tactic vs him and they generally give him a lot of grief. Ike gives Peach trouble once she's in the air though because of her lol terribad airdodge so its crucial for her to get back onto the ground

What would you do to counter a Peach who pulls up Turnips and uses them to counterattack things that hit her shield out of curiosity?

Spoiler

Lol, trying to discuss Mario with anyone is a pain xD

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What would I do? Fail, because I'm not particularly good at the whole "playing" aspect of Brawl. >_> However, if I was actually good at the game, I would likely try to bait either a throw, or another move, and attempt to punish the reaction. I'd probably be sticking to Jab/Nair/Fair, like normal, but I'd probably also throw in Dash Attack if the Peach was floating. Somewhat lingering, giant hitboxes + Peach's AD + lightweight = worth the gamble.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Dash attack canceled item toss.

And I don't think I have enough experience to comment on the matchup. Boo.

I had a feeling it was that. I was also looking for that video too, so thanks. I know have DACIT down, except learning how to throw the item to the side.

 

[Teh Brettster]

This kid needs to understand that a decent player isn't ******** enough to waste attacks on someone's shield when they're holding an item.

If this moron's strategy were true, Diddy would be undisputed best character in the game by a clear and boundless margin...

Rickerdy, you've fought bad Ikes who don't know strategy in this game. Consider the match-up WITH OUR INPUT, because that's why you came here. If you don't, then GTFO because we're obviously of no use to you and vice versa.

 

[Mr. Doom]

On a different note, Yoshi's Island (Brawl) screwed me over. Then again, someone else messed up there, too.

 

[Nysyarc]

On a different note, Yoshi's Island (Brawl) screwed me over. Then again, someone else messed up there, too.

The first actually made me lol IRL for a minute. The timing was so perfectly terrible.

 

[Teh Brettster]

What would you do to counter a Peach who pulls up Turnips and uses them to counterattack things that hit her shield out of curiosity?

Grab.

10mindsblown