Art of Zelda (For IZAW)

[SM Mystic]

Izaw said he was gonna do a guide for Zelda, but he needs our help. He's also challenged us to prove to him that Zelda isn't the worst, so that he can prove to other people that Zelda isn't the worst. Please don't post any hateful things about Zelda, as this is for Izaw, and it's more than likely going on his guide. Also, any information you may have, or know about Zelda, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, and get to searching.
~Naru

 

[Izaw]

If someone can reference me to the best written guide, please don't hesitate!

 

[~Dionysus~]

If someone can reference me to the best written guide, please don't hesitate!

I found this guide to be extremely well-done: http://smash4guides.weebly.com

Hope this helps!

 

[SM Mystic]

I found this guide to be extremely well-done: http://smash4guides.weebly.com

Hope this helps!

I showed him the video of that already, but it's good to know you found the written guide. Thanks~

 

[buzzard]

If someone can reference me to the best written guide, please don't hesitate!

I made an extensive Zelda guide for my local community, it's in spanish though, but you can find many visual examples there, and a lot of things are easy to understand regardless of language. I can provide translation for specific things if needed.

You can find it here: http://argcade.com/?p=2293

 

[BJN39]

I remember your Sheik/Link art videos.


I will come back later when I'm not busy and drop some info.

 

[Rickster]

I think some talking points for Zelda are...

• combos, specifically landing Nair*, FF Dair, back of Utilt, Dtilt, Dthrow, and Uthrow
• Recovery and offstage game, especially not **snapping the ledge and ledge snapping from above (no 2 frame vulnerability). Also Dair in general being good for spikes. Dsmash's angle sets up great for this
• Her safer moves, being spaced Fsmash, Phantoms, Utilt, and especially Jab (FAF only 9 frames after the hitbox is done, +1 shield drop and -6 OoS, which our frame 5 Dtilt/Dsmash/Nayru's intangibility can fix)
• Jab resetting with sourspot Fairs, Bairs, and Dairs
• Shield pressure*** using Phantom 3, Lightning Kicks, Jab, and Fsmash
• Her burst KO power and powerful OoS options
• Using Din's Fire to clank with other projectiles or knock them away (Gordos, Duck Hunt Can)
• How to use a combination of Phantom 2, Din's Fire, Jab, and Fsmash to attempt to wall the opponent
• Comboing into Lightning Kicks and setting up for them through Dthrow, Jab, Dtilt, and Jab resets
• Dtilt hitting below the ledge easily due to lingering for several frames+ combing into Uair, Fair, Ftilt, and Dsmash when used in this position
• Aerial Elevator and how to combo into it from Dthrow
• Phantom gimping certain characters (Ike, Kirby, Cloud are a few)+blocking recoveries like Mario's, Marth's, and Captain Falcon's
• Zelda's HooHah
• Nayru's Love frame 5-12 intangibility+ disjointed transcendent hitboxes making it beat out many moves
• Ledge cancelling Farore's Wind
• Love Jumping tech****
• All her normals are disjointed transcendent except Dtilt/Dsmash. Can also work against her at times.

* landing Nair is a guaranteed Dtilt Dsmash on everyone, guaranteed front hit Utilt/Elevator on non-superheavyweights (needs some testing still), and Guaranteed Usmash on Sheik and ZSS (possibly other light and tall characters too?). It mostly depends on weight, I believe.

First hit Nair also exists. It's when she landing with only the first hit, which slightly pips the opponent up. On fast fallers, it leads to a guaranteed Utilt, Usmash, or Elevator. It also sets up for a SH Fair/Bair/Dair

** Spacing Farore's Wind from the ledge just right then not snappujg the ledge can throw out a very dangerous hitbox. Teleporting downwards to the ledge then returning the control stick to neutral right when she disappears will let her snap the ledge from above, removing all vulnerability frames. Very very underused technique currently.

*** Good shield strings are
Jab Jab Fsmash
Phantom 3 to Fair/Bair
Phantom 3 to Fsmash
Phantom 3 to Farore's Wind
Fair/Bair Fsmash
Double Fair/Bair

**** Love Jumping is when she jumps left or right out if hitstun then immediately uses Nayru's. It will either propel her horizontally away from the attacker or towards them in a counterattack fashion.

Sorry this dragged on so long. I got a little carried away, lol. Hopefully this can be a somewhat decent starting point. Feel free to ask questions!

 

[BJN39]

I think some talking points for Zelda are...

• combos, specifically landing Nair*, FF Dair, back of Utilt, Dtilt, Dthrow, and Uthrow
• Recovery and offstage game, especially not **snapping the ledge and ledge snapping from above (no 2 frame vulnerability). Also Dair in general being good for spikes. Dsmash's angle sets up great for this
• Her safer moves, being spaced Fsmash, Phantoms, Utilt, and especially Jab (FAF only 9 frames after the hitbox is done, +1 shield drop and -6 OoS, which our frame 5 Dtilt/Dsmash/Nayru's intangibility can fix)
• Jab resetting with sourspot Fairs, Bairs, and Dairs
• Shield pressure*** using Phantom 3, Lightning Kicks, Jab, and Fsmash
• Her burst KO power and powerful OoS options
• Using Din's Fire to clank with other projectiles or knock them away (Gordos, Duck Hunt Can)
• How to use a combination of Phantom 2, Din's Fire, Jab, and Fsmash to attempt to wall the opponent
• Comboing into Lightning Kicks and setting up for them through Dthrow, Jab, Dtilt, and Jab resets
• Dtilt hitting below the ledge easily due to lingering for several frames+ combing into Uair, Fair, Ftilt, and Dsmash when used in this position
• Aerial Elevator and how to combo into it from Dthrow
• Phantom gimping certain characters (Ike, Kirby, Cloud are a few)+blocking recoveries like Mario's, Marth's, and Captain Falcon's
• Zelda's HooHah
• Nayru's Love frame 5-12 intangibility+ disjointed transcendent hitboxes making it beat out many moves
• Ledge cancelling Farore's Wind
• Love Jumping tech****
• All her normals are disjointed transcendent except Dtilt/Dsmash. Can also work against her at times.

* landing Nair is a guaranteed Dtilt Dsmash on everyone, guaranteed front hit Utilt/Elevator on non-superheavyweights (needs some testing still), and Guaranteed Usmash on Sheik and ZSS (possibly other light and tall characters too?). It mostly depends on weight, I believe.

First hit Nair also exists. It's when she landing with only the first hit, which slightly pips the opponent up. On fast fallers, it leads to a guaranteed Utilt, Usmash, or Elevator. It also sets up for a SH Fair/Bair/Dair

** Spacing Farore's Wind from the ledge just right then not snappujg the ledge can throw out a very dangerous hitbox. Teleporting downwards to the ledge then returning the control stick to neutral right when she disappears will let her snap the ledge from above, removing all vulnerability frames. Very very underused technique currently.

*** Good shield strings are
Jab Jab Fsmash
Phantom 3 to Fair/Bair
Phantom 3 to Fsmash
Phantom 3 to Farore's Wind
Fair/Bair Fsmash
Double Fair/Bair

**** Love Jumping is when she jumps left or right out if hitstun then immediately uses Nayru's. It will either propel her horizontally away from the attacker or towards them in a counterattack fashion.

Sorry this dragged on so long. I got a little carried away, lol. Hopefully this can be a somewhat decent starting point. Feel free to ask questions!

Oh wow sis, way to cover a ton of stuff. So proud~

Some stuff I'll add:
• Responding to someone DI'ing the first hit of elevator. (AKA angling FW to reappear up and slightly to the side, as well as "aborting" the attempt, by holding down.)
• non-point blank Jabs chain into dash grabs and dash attacks at low percents due to the changes to the hitboxes in 1.1.0.
• Usmash is better at KOing than Elevator in a few percent/rage instances. It's more of a hard read, but has some JC and OOS game. (Also see: how Tweek used To use Bowser Jr's Usmash) it's stronger than Mewtwo's Usmash now, lol.
• SH air dodge BAir is a two frame window. Zelda can use it as a gimmick "counter" or "feint" to land sweet-spot BAirs. Does NOT work with FAir. You can also just not LK if you aren't in range for the sweet-spot, or you can use Nayru's, but that's not recommended.

I also wanna add a note on Nayru's. It's more that it has a decently long intangible period than it has other things. Unfortunately the intangibility ends before the hitbox (intangible 5-12, hits F13) so it trades or loses with attacks often instead of being a perfect anti-pressure tool. Its intangibility also starts a little too late to cleanly escape combos, and she can be easily hit before the intangibility.

Also there is exactly 20 frames of non reflect frames between repeated usage. Only 16 frames before a shield. It reflects for a deceptively long time.

 

[Rickster]

Oh wow sis, way to cover a ton of stuff. So proud~

Some stuff I'll add:
• Responding to someone DI'ing the first hit of elevator. (AKA angling FW to reappear up and slightly to the side, as well as "aborting" the attempt, by holding down.)
• non-point blank Jabs chain into dash grabs and dash attacks at low percents due to the changes to the hitboxes in 1.1.0.
• Usmash is better at KOing than Elevator in a few percent/rage instances. It's more of a hard read, but has some JC and OOS game. (Also see: how Tweek used To use Bowser Jr's Usmash) it's stronger than Mewtwo's Usmash now, lol.
• SH air dodge BAir is a two frame window. Zelda can use it as a gimmick "counter" or "feint" to land sweet-spot BAirs. Does NOT work with FAir. You can also just not LK if you aren't in range for the sweet-spot, or you can use Nayru's, but that's not recommended.

I also wanna add a note on Nayru's. It's more that it has a decently long intangible period than it has other things. Unfortunately the intangibility ends before the hitbox (intangible 5-12, hits F13) so it trades or loses with attacks often instead of being a perfect anti-pressure tool. Its intangibility also starts a little too late to cleanly escape combos, and she can be easily hit before the intangibility.

Also there is exactly 20 frames of non reflect frames between repeated usage. Only 16 frames before a shield. It reflects for a deceptively long time.

Oh wow, I didn't even know that about Usmash. Do you know what the general % range is where it's better than the Elevator?

Oh and about Mewtwo's Usmash (last hit)...can it be DI'd easier than Zelda's? I've seen people nearly sent to the corner blast zones by Mewtwo's but Zelda's seems to have a much much smaller range of angles.

Idk how I even forgot your other bullet points. I do that stuff all the time. I'm ashamed, lol.

 

[BJN39]

Oh wow, I didn't even know that about Usmash. Do you know what the general % range is where it's better than the Elevator?

Oh and about Mewtwo's Usmash (last hit)...can it be DI'd easier than Zelda's? I've seen people nearly sent to the corner blast zones by Mewtwo's but Zelda's seems to have a much much smaller range of angles.

Idk how I even forgot your other bullet points. I do that stuff all the time. I'm ashamed, lol.

You just rocked that Zelda info. No shame. Zeldas kelP each other.

I think I had the Usmash VS Elevator ranges in the Fairy Fountain in some random page, but I could be wrong so you don't have to waste your time looking. I'll look. The range was pretty small, and it was at super low rage levels iirc.

Also yeah M2's Usmash has a lower angle. Zelda's Usmash actually isn't a 90 degree though either. (88°) That said you have to carefully watch which side of Zelda you're on at the end of the move to correctly DI it. It could potentially screw an opponent over where they accidentally use BAD DI. It is pretty much random though so we can't exactly abuse it. Good DI hit angle for each Usmash would be about ~75° (Zelda) / ~60° (M2)

 

[Izaw]

Good stuff, ty!

 

[Furret]

not a lot I can add confidently, but I may as well talk about punishing. since it makes up a large part of 's game

• in general, some basics

-Dash attack is frame 6 and the extra distance zelda travels when using it, makes it a basic punish that gives stage control. With sweet spot having late kill potential and sour spot having combo potential into itself.
-Fsmash is a general spacing punish option, that is rather safe on shield thanks to its knockback and can catch many poorly spaced approaches, it often loses to short hop approaches. jab can have a similar effect as well, that leads to combos instead of kills
-USpecial/grab are zelda's best shield punishes, which one is used is dependent on %, but for the most part zelda doesn't get these too often when playing against an opponent who spaces attacks properly
-Landing on the stage with nair makes up most of Zelda's current combo game and while it is a difficult punish to land it is worth going for.

• against recoveries zelda usually doesn't go too deep in her edge guarding, but her ability to force her opponents hand when returning to the ledge is surprisingly good.

-Ledge trumps should generally be followed up with a Bair, even if a little difficult to pull off the punish is really worth it
-Against get up options Fsmash can catch a lot of options, thanks to it's disjoint keeping it safe
-When opponents recover high it's much more difficult for zelda to cover options (due to her slow speed in general), however obvious attempts can be read with Uair
-Ledge canceling USpecial is a strong option when Zelda is far away from the ledge, as it allows her to cover the ledge with a hitbox and continue her pursuit, but is obviously dangerous should you fail it
-ledge re-graps while rare should always be a run off Bair for zelda which can should lead to stock. you don't normally go for run off bair thanks to trying to catch ledge snaps with a 1 frame sweet spot being really hard
-Dtilt/Dair stuff was mentioned earlier

• When comboing, certain parts of the combo need to string together, which occasionally lead to an opponent getting out. in other cases it can lead to bigger punishes if she reads the air dodge

-utilt when it sends a little higher than expected can make it more difficult to land some options. While the general things to go for are uair/nair, you can bait an air dodge with usmash which is rather safe option to go for or for a hard read you can reset the combo with empty jump FF nair
-Dthrow -> uair is rather well known, for most characters they can di away and air dodge, but this option can also be covered by empty jump bair

I'll add some old combo notes i seem to quote every once in a while

right I saw some responses, but I'm to lazy to read them, so Imma list some combos, set ups and strings I like to use cause why not
bullet points ahoy!

• Nair, the grand daddy of combo starters, works at any percent% and has kill potential. make sure you hit the ground before the final hit though and always try to get two hits in
  • Nair -> Utilt
    • the low percent option, giving the longest strings to work with at low percents, almost always guaranteed and should be the go to option if you hit a grounded opponent with only one hit of nair (it will pop them up so nothing else will connect before they can jump out)
  • Nair -> Dtilt
    • great for leading into the mid percent 50/50s that Dtilt has, guaranteed
  • Nair -> Dsmash
    • a late kill option and sets up for edge guards, guaranteed
  • Nair -> Uspecial
    • great kill option, still need to follow DI, the downside is your opponent wont always be unable to act as how much frame advantage you have is reliant when you land during nair
• Jab, decent set up move, usable for comboing low-mid percents
  • Jab -> dash attack
    • this is the usual follow up, it true combos and bad DI will give you another dash attack
  • Jab -> grab
    • a mix up option, doesn't catch jumps, but it's still useful and it's best to use an option that boosts your grab range (dash attack cancel grab or roll canceled grab come to mind)
  • Jab -> Farores
    • best used when jab starts to cause tumbles in mid %s, forcing your opponent to tech instead of fast fall shield
• Utilt, strong option if you can catch someone in it, stings into itself at low percents, leads to 50/50s and some combos
  • utilt -> uair
    • catches jumps, allowing you to go for air dodge reads, true combos if you hit behind zelda with utilt
  • utilt -> Nair
    • same as above, but can true combo if you hit people at the start of utilt as well
  • utilt -> Uspecial
    • only true combos at very specific percents and when you hit with the tail end of utilt, making it sadly hard to use
• Dtilt, leads to low percent strings and mid percent 50/50s
  • dtilt -> utilt
    • good option at low percents to stick opponents into a higher damaging string
  • dtilt -> Ftilt(up angled)
    • your option should your opponent be out of range for more dtilts or utilts at low percents, can true combo hard to tell when though
  • dtilt -> Fsmash
    • for your airdodge happy opponents at low percents
  • dtilt -> Fair
    • strong 50/50 option in mid percents, Jump canceled Usmash should be considered for opponents happy to mash attacks out of this
  • dtilt -> Uair
    • tail end of options for dtilt, I hardly if ever use this one
• Dthrow, obvious blah blah blah, dthrow the game
  • Dthrow -> nair
    • the option that combos at low to near mid percents
  • Dthrow -> Bair
    • the mid to higher percent meant for reading an airdodge then punishing
  • Dthrow -> Uair
    • the standard 50/50 to use at mid percents
• Uthrow, only really usable against fast fallers
  • Uthrow -> utilt
    • super low percent combo option
  • Uthrow -> Usmash
    • super low percent combo option
• Dair, the hard read option, you could say
  • Dair -> Uair
    • looks flashy, goes to kill percents

ok, least i can say i tried now right?

 

[DinsFireIsOP]

So I see people did mention falling Nair as a combo starter, but let's not forget raising Nair which is great to intercept some aerial approaches. Most of the time I feel like my opponent didn't expect it (but they surely don't know the matchup).

I feel like conditioning the opponent and punishing accordingly is a big part of Zelda's gameplan, so maybe things like DThrow -> USmash should be worth mentioning too, although they are not combos.

...Actually I'll let other people post informations, I'm not really good at it. I just wanted to say I'm really happy that an "Art of Zelda" video is being considered, I love these videos!

 

[Zylach]

I totally came to this thread way too late but I think I have a few little tidbits I can share that might add some nuance to a guide.

Zelda makes great use out of SHAD. She can SHAD nair for the first hitbox popup which can true combo into utilt, usmash, nair, and aerial elevator at mid percents. She can also SHAD bair on unsuspecting opponents since bair comes out on frame 6. I also like to SHAD Nayru's sometimes when I think the enemy will try to punish the airdodge but won't be quite in range of bair or will go in too late for a bair to land. I also like to play around with feigning a landing with airdodge or dair and timing it just right so the endlag for both options ends before I land so I can throw out a Nayru's Love just as I land since it has intangibility on frame 5 and can punish opponents that try to punish the airdodge or dair since Nayru's transitions from air to ground seamlessly. This is one of the few tricks she has for landing outside of just going for the ledge any time she's sent into the air.

I'll also point out something that Zolda revealed to me recently. Dthrow appears to be a 50/50 around 60-80 ish percent where no DI will get the opponent hit by our uair or even an aerial elevator but proper DI can get them hit by a guaranteed bair.

Just my 2-cents. Props to Rickster and BJN for the info drops. Good stuff.

 

[SM Mystic]

It's nice to know we Zeldas can unite when it counts. I think this thread can safely be closed now.

Before this thread closes, 1.1.5! GAME WAS UPDATED TO 1.1.5!

 

[Izaw]

Ok guys, perfect timing for an Art of Zelda, let's put this character on the map

Unfortunately, you guys have to start over with what she can do lol, UNLESS some stuff still apply.

But lets make a list from here on shall we?

 

[Furret]

UNLESS some stuff still apply.

Most stuff still applies, There are a couple differences now though

• Nair went from ok punish to a much stronger punish on it's own thanks to 15%, also better in combos as a starter and ender
• But dthrow Uair prob got reliably the bigger change. Reports seem to say it will connect if you follow DI, with air dodge being the only option out, which would make it a true 50/50 unlike before where jumping out was an option. That I would wait for more information on
• Nayru's Love does it's job more reliably now
• Ftilt and Dsmash are safer now, but aren't + on shield so that info remains the same. Extra range on Ftilt "might" make it a better AA option
• stuff involving the new grab range is just better
• Jab walls the same as it did before, it's just more damage

 

[Zylach]

Ok guys, perfect timing for an Art of Zelda, let's put this character on the map

Unfortunately, you guys have to start over with what she can do lol, UNLESS some stuff still apply.

But lets make a list from here on shall we?

A lot of her kit is unchanged tbh. She deals more damage with her nair, jab, and uair now which is just a buff to her usual stuff. Her grab range is better. The biggest change to her playstyle will be utilizing her more reliable hoo-hah now that uair's hitbox has been changed.

Her ftilt is now a better spacing tool thanks to the startup buff and duration buff though it does still have a blind spot. Zelda will also never trade with anything while using Nayru's Love now that the intangibility frames last until the hitbox comes out (FINALLY).

Basically, what was already said still stands for the most part.

 

[KlicKlac]

Her ftilt is now a better spacing tool thanks to the startup buff and duration buff though it does still have a blind spot. Zelda will also never trade with anything while using Nayru's Love now that the intangibility frames last until the hitbox comes out (FINALLY).

Do you mind explaining the frame data for Nayru's Love? I use that move so many times, but I still get confused sometimes when I managed to get forward smashed from a diddy kong or flame choked by a ganondorf when I clearly got the move out in time.

Like, at what frames does nayru's love do damage and what frames are you intangible?

 

[Furret]

Izaw
rather helpful video on dthrow from the forums

should help a bit, credit to @ketchupprecum for the video

Do you mind explaining the frame data for Nayru's Love? I use that move so many times, but I still get confused sometimes when I managed to get forward smashed from a diddy kong or flame choked by a ganondorf when I clearly got the move out in time.

so before the patch, it started intan on frame 5 and ended on 12 hitboxes started on frame 13 so if a hitbox was already active at the end of the intan you would get hit

now the intan goes to frame 15 which means if someone has a hurtbox on top of nayru's they will get hit by it before the intan wears off. disjoints would still be a problem for the move, but you wont get randomly grabbed out of it or trade with nairs and dash attacks

 

[KlicKlac]

Izaw



so before it started intan on frame 5 and ended on 12 hitboxes started on frame 13 so if a hitbox was already active at the end of the intan you would get hit

now the intan goes to frame 15 which means if someone has a hurtbox on top of nayru's they will get hit by it before the intan wears off. disjoints would still be a problem for the move, but you wont get randomly grabbed out of it or trade with nairs and dash attacks

Haha great! I'm glad I already am utilizing Nayru's love a lot in my neutral game. Especially SHAD to nayrus' love. This makes it even better.

 

[Furret]

Haha great! I'm glad I already am utilizing Nayru's love a lot in my neutral game. Especially SHAD to nayrus' love. This makes it even better.

Ha, I still wouldn't use it much, it's still super risky

 

[Zylach]

Do you mind explaining the frame data for Nayru's Love? I use that move so many times, but I still get confused sometimes when I managed to get forward smashed from a diddy kong or flame choked by a ganondorf when I clearly got the move out in time.

Like, at what frames does nayru's love do damage and what frames are you intangible?

So, Nayru's Love has a few different things happening at different times. When you input the command, 5 frames later, you'll get intangibility frames (that's 1/12th of a second in case you're not familiar). Intangibility means you can't be affected by anything including hitboxes, windboxes, grabs, etc. Before this most recent patch, those I-frames would last only until frame 12 if I remember correctly. The problem that Zelda had was that the hitbox on Nayru's Love came out on frame 13 so there was a frame where the opponent could hit you before the hitbox came out. That's why long lasting hitboxes and multihits would trade with Nayru's Love because they would last longer than our I-frames and hit us just as the hitbox came out (a trade we would lose 90% of the time because Nayru's Love ticks for 1% each).

Now, the I-frames last until frame 15 which is 2 frames after our hitbox comes out meaning we will absolutely never ever trade. However, we can still be hit while in the NL animation because those I-frames only last until frame 15. The move ends at frame 28 and its FAF (first actionable frame - the first frame at which you are able to act out of a move) is 60, a full second. Since there are moves that can outrange the crystals in Nayru's Love, we can still be hit in the middle of the move if the opponent uses a big disjoint like Marth fsmash, Ike ftilt, Corrin fsmash, etc.

*edit: Ninja'd*

 

[KlicKlac]

So, Nayru's Love has a few different things happening at different times. When you input the command, 5 frames later, you'll get intangibility frames (that's 1/30th of a second in case you're not familiar). Intangibility means you can't be affected by anything including hitboxes, windboxes, grabs, etc. Before this most recent patch, those I-frames would last only until frame 12 if I remember correctly. The problem that Zelda had was that the hitbox on Nayru's Love came out on frame 13 so there was a frame where the opponent could hit you before the hitbox came out. That's why long lasting hitboxes and multihits would trade with Nayru's Love because they would last longer than our I-frames and hit us just as the hitbox came out (a trade we would lose 90% of the time because Nayru's Love ticks for 1% each).

Now, the I-frames last until frame 15 which is 2 frames after our hitbox comes out meaning we will absolutely never ever trade. However, we can still be hit while in the NL animation because those I-frames only last until frame 15. The move ends at frame 28 and its FAF (first actionable frame - the first frame at which you are able to act out of a move) is 60, a full second. Since there are moves that can outrange the crystals in Nayru's Love, we can still be hit in the middle of the move if the opponent uses a big disjoint like Marth fsmash, Ike ftilt, Corrin fsmash, etc.

*edit: Ninja'd*

Thanks for the detailed reply Zylach. This is belated, but I've been lurking here for a while, and I always appreciated your in-depth responses. I find you are very good at explaining things well. I remember one of your posts in the Q/A Zelda thread where you talked about upair kills on Mario was the reason I was able to add dthrowing to upair kills into my game.

 

[buzzard]

So, Nayru's Love has a few different things happening at different times. When you input the command, 5 frames later, you'll get intangibility frames (that's 1/30th of a second in case you're not familiar). Intangibility means you can't be affected by anything including hitboxes, windboxes, grabs, etc. Before this most recent patch, those I-frames would last only until frame 12 if I remember correctly. The problem that Zelda had was that the hitbox on Nayru's Love came out on frame 13 so there was a frame where the opponent could hit you before the hitbox came out. That's why long lasting hitboxes and multihits would trade with Nayru's Love because they would last longer than our I-frames and hit us just as the hitbox came out (a trade we would lose 90% of the time because Nayru's Love ticks for 1% each).

Now, the I-frames last until frame 15 which is 2 frames after our hitbox comes out meaning we will absolutely never ever trade. However, we can still be hit while in the NL animation because those I-frames only last until frame 15. The move ends at frame 28 and its FAF (first actionable frame - the first frame at which you are able to act out of a move) is 60, a full second. Since there are moves that can outrange the crystals in Nayru's Love, we can still be hit in the middle of the move if the opponent uses a big disjoint like Marth fsmash, Ike ftilt, Corrin fsmash, etc.

*edit: Ninja'd*

In Smash's case a frame is 1/60th of a second since the game runs at 60 frames per second. Not that relevant for the point you made in any case.

 

[Zylach]

Thanks for the detailed reply Zylach. This is belated, but I've been lurking here for a while, and I always appreciated your in-depth responses. I find you are very good at explaining things well. I remember one of your posts in the Q/A Zelda thread where you talked about upair kills on Mario was the reason I was able to add dthrowing to upair kills into my game.

Thanks! That's really nice to hear!

In Smash's case a frame is 1/60th of a second since the game runs at 60 frames per second. Not that relevant for the point you made in any case.

Woops. 5 frames is 1/12th a second. I can math

Will edit. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[KlicKlac]

Thanks! That's really nice to hear!

Woops. 5 frames is 1/12th a second. I can math

Will edit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Do you mind adding my NNID in your wii u friends list? I can send you a friend request. I see your NNID below your name. I would love to battle you sometime. After 9000+ games with zelda, I think I can say I have developed quite a lot of skill with her. Perhaps we could learn from each other's playstyles.

 

[Rickster]

Izaw if you wanted to see any if that Zelda stuff in action, here's a replay I have that I think shows off a lot of Zelda's strong points.

https://youtu.be/KA467nz47xY

Oh, and there's one more thing I never mentioned in my massive post a few days ago. When Zelda recovers, she can start spamming Nayru's in the blastzone (or on the very edge of the viewable area) to stall for time. You can use this to time out, throw off your opponent, and even get more invincibility frames on the ledge (since you were offstage for longer). I have seen it used much (heck I haven't even been utilizing it properly) but it could be very useful at some point.

Credit to @evmaxy54 for mentioning this months ago.

Sorry for the terrible video quality, lol.

 

[KlicKlac]

and even get more invincibility frames on the ledge (since you were offstage for longer)

How does this work again? Why do you get more invincibility frames?

 

[Rickster]

How does this work again? Why do you get more invincibility frames?

Your i-frames decrease the more damage you have but increase the longer you're offstage. Nayru's makes us float a little more, so we can get a few extra i-frames. It maxes out at a certain point though.

Lavani is this all correct?

 

[KlicKlac]

Your i-frames decrease the more damage you have but increase the longer you're offstage. Nayru's makes us float a little more, so we can get a few extra i-frames. It maxes out at a certain point though.

Lavani is this all correct?

Wow, I never knew you got more I-frames the longer you are offstage. So you're saying by spamming nayru's love offstage to slow down your fall, you will be able to hang on the ledge with a great number of I-frames?

 

[Furret]

Your i-frames decrease the more damage you have but increase the longer you're offstage. Nayru's makes us float a little more, so we can get a few extra i-frames. It maxes out at a certain point though.

Lavani is this all correct?

does that effect get up options?

 

[Lavani]

Your i-frames decrease the more damage you have but increase the longer you're offstage. Nayru's makes us float a little more, so we can get a few extra i-frames. It maxes out at a certain point though.

Lavani is this all correct?

Correct.

It's also measured from the last point you exited hitstun I think (getting hit resets it).

does that effect get up options?

No, just ledge hang time.

 

[Alacion]

There's always jab/weak dash attack to rar bair or something but it's quite difficult to do and not guaranteed.

Punishing ledge rolls with up b is a nice once-a-match thing. Usually it won't be DI'd. Mentioned earlier but dthrow to airdodge read falling nair to up b (3ds technology) saved me a good number of times. Also a once-a-match thing.

 

[Izaw]

Jesus, I'm finding some pretty juicy tricks and death combos with Farore's wind cancel xD, can't wait to show you guys!

Also, I'm planning on using mostly acoustic Zelda covers of songs for this tutorial, unless you have some other remixes that you would want into this guide, if you do, please suggest them. You can suggest any Zelda song, as long as its a remix, and you can also suggest your own preferred acoustic songs too, as long as the quality is good.

 

[buzzard]

Jesus, I'm finding some pretty juicy tricks and death combos with Farore's wind cancel xD, can't wait to show you guys!

Also, I'm planning on using mostly acoustic Zelda covers of songs for this tutorial, unless you have some other remixes that you would want into this guide, if you do, please suggest them. You can suggest any Zelda song, as long as its a remix, and you can also suggest your own preferred acoustic songs too, as long as the quality is good.

Upbeat music or anything goes?

 

[Izaw]

Anything Zelda related goes buzzard

 

[buzzard]

Ok, here goes:

Spoiler: Zelda music

 

[Izaw]

What is happening at 3:40 ? How does he have momentum in Nayru's Love?

 

[buzzard]

I'm not sure if it's B-reversed or if it's a love jump. @Macchiato knows for sure.