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Arrow Looping - "You were born on the cusp, Kid Icarus"

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
This is just a mini-guide on how I arrow loop and use it for an aggressive battle. Arrow looping is wholesome part of my strategy and style, but it definitely does not fit every matchup. For the purpose of this guide, I use Meta Knight a lot as an example, because, well, he's a ******* to fight and you may as well use everything you've got to get ahead of him.

"Cusps are the borders between the twelve astrological signs. You are considered to be 'on the cusp' if you were born within a day or two of the beginning or end of any sign. "
Why is arrow looping bad?

Arrow looping is bad because of technical issues involved with the amount of concentration you can put on so many elements in your game. While arrow looping you risk these things:
  • Incorrect DI/SDI input - Imagine you're looping an arrow, get hit by Meta's dsmash. You just went straight to the right and died. Preventable, yet still a risk involved.
  • Semi-predictable movements/pressure game - Continuous looping tends to give you a pattern that may be exploited by the enemy. Something you have to live with. There's only so much you can do while arrow looping, but a lot more than some people give it credit for.
  • Reduced momentum from breaks in speed or combination attacks - Arrow looping CAN have a rhythm, and you can get used to it, but a lot of the options you DO have out of arrow looping involve sudden breaks or movements that may make it more difficult for you to adapt to rapid changes in the playing field. Meta Knight is one example; he has one of the best dash attacks in the game, is very good at power-sheilding any arrow and doing anything he wants, and keeps you sweating in the air where normally arrow looping is a bit safer.

Why is arrow looping good?

In order for arrow looping to have any use to your game, you have to remind yourself; "What do I want my arrow to do? How many different angles can I hit the opponent? Which angle is a guarantee follow up if it hits?" Yes, I said IF it hits. It's so damn hard to hit these things even after you've practiced, and even then it's all up to said opponent to make it that much harder for you. But once more, this allows for something called conditioning and repairing.
  • Conditioning - You can make your opponent have three options while he's falling back down to the ground: Attack the arrow thats coming down on them (which makes them have to use u-air, b-air, or n-air, all moves that you can see and punish if the arrow is coming on top/behind them) Air dodge which allows you to punish with a move you normally wouldn't be able to hit (dair if ranged, bair if close, u-air if opponent needs more damage) Take the arrow, which just leads into any for you (arrow again if far away, fair if decent close, bair if you can wave-bounce reverse into it fast enough)
  • Ground Pressure - Arrows have enough power to give the opponent a slight shield stun that allows you to quickly follow up with a grab or shield poke if their shield is low (Fsmash is a great option if so). You can also just do your regular jab, d-tilt, or f-tilt to fool the opponent and get some damage. If they shield both arrow and your attack, they'll be pushed enough that you'll be safe normally. If they spot-dodge the arrow, you basically have free reign on their lag using a predicted bair, or simply building more damage with jab, upsmash, d-tilt, u-tilt, or d-smash.
  • Baiting - Arrows can be looped in so many different ways, that you can bait your opponent to think you're doing an arrow loop that would normally force them to shield or spot-dodge, and then you can just run at them and grab them (or attack if they spot-dodged.) There's also baits that make your opponent clearly see an opening because you're busy looping, but you again trick them, shield their attempted attack, or spot-dodge their grab, because you dropped that arrow. Remember this important thing, and this ties into the first bad thing about arrow looping: YOU CAN DROP THE ARROW. Nothing bad will happen to you if you just drop the arrow when you need to (you're clearly open to an attack and won't react fast enough to shield, so SDI the best you can instead of continually looping that damn arrow).
  • Repairing - This comes to the next thing though; if you DO arrow loop consistently and feel like you're fine and can shield anything without messing up your loop, what happens if you get GRABBED? Well this is simple; repair. You can "repair" your situation by looping the arrow as fast you can back down and hit your opponent when he's grabbed you. With Metaknight, this is incredibly useful because three of his four throws don't have a hitbox on them (the b-throw does), so if you loop it and he d-throws, he's getting hit and you can immediately follow up after it's hit!! If he f-throws, you'll get more damaged, but he'll still at least take some him self. If you hit him during his u-throw, you won't get damaged at all, and then you can even attempt to kill him by air-jumping away and b-airing (most likely he'll jump with you). You can use any attack too, not just b-air.

    Note*: Reparing is not just limited to grabs, you can repair via multi-hit attacks like Meta's fair/bair, his u-air string, TORNADO, or basically anything that has you right next to your opponent. Repairing allows you a get-out quick strategy that not only bullfinches some damage but gets them damaged as well, along with a quick guaranteed follow-up in most cases.

How to identify situations and use arrow looping during combat:

There is definitely a lot of difficulty in arrow looping if you just start doing it thinking you're going to adapt to a style with it. It doesn't work that way. You have to practice PRACTICE PRACTIIIIIICE.

X-23 said:
I've already identified 17 ways to beat you...!
Arrow looping while fighting - This is probably the most important thing you need to grasp. It's hard enough to put into words, but let's try.
  • First off, while you may have been playing Brawl for so long, you'll not directly notice unless you try Melee or something, but, there is a lot of buffering in this game (Queue Dr. Obvious). But if you take that into account, it'll make realizing your goal of looping arrows while attack that much easier. You can actually loop in the commands on your stick while you fight, but you have to hold the stick all the way in to the cardinal directions you want it to go. If you hold it slightly in, there's more chance for error. So the best way to loop is to hold it all the way in, and what ever direction you just went (forward, jump, back, or fast fall) adapt to that direction and either use a move or pressure your opponent with that movement or defense (you can shield and air dodge while looping to mix up).
  • When you move forward ->, you can dash attack and during that dash attack you can finish the rest of your arrow loop. That's just one example. You could also angelic step with your arrow loop while you it's coming down (since moving back on the stick doesn't do anything to the arrow if it's supposed to move forward). Then there's also boosted upsmash, another arrow, and even AR/ART. This is all while you're on the ground; it's possible to play even with tap jump and arrow loop without JUMPING as long as you keep the stick all the way in.
  • When you move up ^, you can u-air, f-air, or d-air into your opponent while your arrow loops, or you can wait until right when the arrow hits your opponent or makes them air-dodge, and just hit them then.
  • When you move back <-,again, like angelic step, you can wave-bounce and shoot another arrow letting it follow the arrow you looped all the way around. This lets you get some defensive keep away game going on better, because they can't power shield both arrows.
  • When you move down, V, try to smash attack them so you're not just crouching there. That's the most vulnerable position to be in and I HATE it when Pits bow down to their opponent with an arrow loop. It's the most straight-forward, basic pattern of patterns and will get you punished. You can also input AR/ART, or maybe jump with Y or X while you're looping and then come down on them with the arrow and your next attack.

These are all just SOME examples of the things you can do. You have to practice this for it to become second nature. Basically, unless you're actually fighting while you're arrow looping, there is no point to arrow looping, otherwise just to piss off your opponent or make it easier for them.

Tips/Strats:
  • ALWAYS stay moving. ALWAYS keep attacking. Never let yourself be idle while looping an arrow. Don't just sit there. FIGHT! Hell, if it means anything, showing your opponent how well you can loop can actually mind-game them into thinking you can't fight for !@#$! PROVE. THEM. WRONG.
  • Arrow loop juggling: remember shooting arrows at slow moving heavies while they are falling on top of you? you can do that only so many times, but try arrow looping one arrow after you've hit them with regular upward shot ones, and then when they fully come down onto you, upsmash them back up, with the arrow coming down onto them! It's a great damage racker, and leads into other set-ups. Don't use on characters like Ganondorf who have a transcendant downB wizard kick to knock you in the face though, it's better to just grab that.
  • Practice in training mode with the cpu put on run away (or play a friend who is good at keepaway) Shoot arrows and loop them while combating them/following them. The hardest part about arrow looping besides an opponent's great offense is an even greater defense, and getting your combat down while arrow looping WHILE they're trying to stay away from you is good practice. Helps you get those leads back.
  • Finally. Try to come up with strategies. Brawl may not be MvC or something where you think it, you can do it, but it's damn near close when you've got a great projectile like Palutena's arrow that can be looped all around the screen.

Oh, btw, actually one more thing: don't bother arrow looping more than one arrow while you're fighting. Start off with one arrow, then maybe two when you're just playing around/trying to be fancy. It's already hard enough looping one. Loop one, aim one, is what I always think.
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,882
Location
Dacula,GA
Nice guide!

AL helped me sometimes because I loop and my opponent starts to run to me and i use the C stick to them which ends up hitting em and the arrow hits too :D And sometimes I see them getting scared and hold block so I just run to them n grab em

I also love those random times were you forgot you threw an arrow but they ended up hiting em anyway xD
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
hey dude. this is really dead on. i could not have out lined the when to and when not to anybetter. if you don't mind ill pm you some of my general and even match up specific loop tactics when im not so tired and can think straight k?
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
Yea I want it to be but I just put it up to gain your guys' approval first :)

Thanks Maharba, please do send me your thoughts and message, I will definitely put it up, I know you put up your own guide as well.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
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Nov 12, 2009
Messages
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Atlanta, GA
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GadielVaStar
Hmm, nice guide actually. I think I'll try this, but that isn't to say my fundamentals are good because they're not. I think arrow-looping can play some uses in the future, so why not try to learn now?
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
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Location
Houston, Texas
you know something you should mention is the fact that people get in the mindset that even if it will put them in a bad position, they feel the need to complete the loop. that is a bad mindset and ill admit that used to b a problem for me.

remember guys, IT'S JUST AN ARROW. if you have to let it go because of a change in situation, that's perfectly ok. you have an unlimited supply of arrows, keeping that one going at the cost of the current situation becoming unfavorable is not how it's done.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
I love the guide, but perhaps it could be expanded on a little bit. Mabey exchange some PMs with the better pits and add on specific situations and the like.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
a thing that i see a lot of pits is arrow loop trying to set up the opponent when they are up and in front of them when is they had just shot an arrow up and hard angled it the arrow would have connected. and then if they had dodged, you could just take it up and loop it to come back down at them with more accuracy.

or people try to loop when they could have just moved back by jumping or stepping and gotten to an angle that they could spam arrows from and apply better pressure than just hoping the loop will set up.

last thing, while this isn't loop related, people need to start following every hit offstage with an arrow and i need to see you guys do the arrow snake more. just weaving your arrow up or down and then straight has led me to so many arrow kills when they are near the side blast zones it's unreal. or it will just force them to take it or dodge all of which put people in a bad position. this can also be used to make a particular air zone innaccesible to the opponent which puts them in a bad situation off stage.

EDIT: 4got to say that upward snaking leads to vertical arrow kills a lot as they may still be in hit stun guarenteeing the arrow kill.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
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Nov 12, 2009
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Atlanta, GA
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GadielVaStar
Ok, I've actually been practicing this the past 3 weeks. I have never been good at looping, but the more I practice, the better I'm understanding the timing and situations to use it. I actually do think this has uses, and there is a lot of potential set-ups/combos/followups you can do from looping arrows as well as the "rain of arrows". Brawl has been out for quite some time, and while we always talk about the potential we have w/ arrow loops, I don't think much has been done to prove the potential of it. The best Pit's at looping were Sagemoon, ADN, ~ED, and CYVE. Admiral is still really good at looping and definitely has great knowledge on it if he is willing to share.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
my loops are on point to a degree of which you don't understand. don't question nor forget the mystic loops

but really though i've been really on point with loops again recently. it's amazing, im doing arrow combos i couldn't do before. looping definitely has it's purposes and ill upload some vids of this later tonight.
 
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