arguing against dlc

[TheSpitefulWolf]

so hear me out on this, but while dlc is nice and fun and fancy and all that ****, there's a side to me that basically just wants to pay for a game and expect that the game i bought is the game i'll be playing forevermore, rather than having to be held in limbo for a year and a half after release to see if a particular character gets in or not. sure sure it can fill in some roster gaps, but ultimately it's a trap where games are pushed out and then needlessly overfilled. then you've also got version mismatches, and costs add up (i think for all of the dlc fighters it cost equal or more than the actual game itself!). also people that were waiting and hoping for the dlc's lifespan lose twice, and people who jump in late jump in 10-20 dollars behind, and that's just not cool to me.

so whatchu thinking? think dlc's a good idea or do you prefer a completed game in your hands that you don't have to wait a year to explore fully?

 

[Nixon Corral]

To me, one of the biggest issues with DLC is that it makes it more difficult to maintain a game long into the future. Eventually, the DLC will no longer be for sale. That just doesn't sit well with me.

Don't really care either way, though. It will likely happen. I imagine it's highly profitable.

 

[TheXenobladeGuy]

As long as it doesn't go the way of street fighter and release 2/3 of the roster as dlc I'm happy.
DLC can be good if done well, and Nintendo has done very well on good, reasonably priced DLC, so as long as they don't remove half of the characters people want back only to resell them, I'm fine

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

DLC is fine. It isn't on-disc DLC and DLC is optional. Noone is requiring you to do it. DLC will last longer on the Switch than Wii U DLC will last. The enjoyment you get out of DLC will decide if it was worth it. I absolutely want DLC, it makes the game live longer.


Also, the game isn't even out yet. Let's focus one thing at a time, shall we?

 

[Morbi]

I honestly prefer DLC. There is only so much you can develop in a two year dev cycle and I want as much Smash as humanly possible. If at any point there is a character I do not want and the cost is too high, I can just enjoy the base game. That being said, I bought a Wii U and a Switch predominately for Smash. A couple of five dollars characters are not going to deter me. I spent well over $500 for Overwatch as well. If I enjoy a game, I want to have all of the luxuries that come with that. I only play a few games, honestly. Most of the other stuff I borrow, rent, or get for STEEP discounts.

 

[FunAtParties]

I felt DLC was cool before, but I don't see why people actively want it before the game is even released, and before the roster is announced. I too would rather have a game have everything day 1, and not have to pay premium prices for characters I may or may not want just to keep up with the meta later.

 

[Ixbran]

Depends on how they do it. Unlike most games SSB4's DLC was only put into production after the base game was already out. and then free updates were released so that upon the release of said DLC, a persons game could use it. Thats how DLC should be handled: not developed during the games development, but rather after.

So long as SSB5 follows suit, it gives us the entire planned game in its completion, and then decide to add extra content after that, then i'll be fine with it.

 

[Metalex]

To me, one of the biggest issues with DLC is that it makes it more difficult to maintain a game long into the future. Eventually, the DLC will no longer be for sale. That just doesn't sit well with me.

Don't really care either way, though. It will likely happen. I imagine it's highly profitable.

This is the only issue for me as well. It would be great if there somehow was a physical released expansion including all the DLC stuff after they are finished developing it, or just a full version of the game eventually

 

[Lyndis_]

All Smash DLC has started development after the game has released, so you aren't being held in limbo by not purchasing it or anything.

You have a game as complete as Brawl or Melee from the beginning, but have DLC as an option if you want more of it later (and of course if they make it.)

 

[FunAtParties]

Depends on how they do it. Unlike most games SSB4's DLC was only put into production after the base game was already out. and then free updates were released so that upon the release of said DLC, a persons game could use it. Thats how DLC should be handled: not developed during the games development, but rather after.

So long as SSB5 follows suit, it gives us the entire planned game in its completion, and then decide to add extra content after that, then i'll be fine with it.

Mewtwo?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mewtwo?

Was unable to be finished on-time. It was also used as a gauge to see if people were interested in DLC and was also technically free originally.

I don't mind DLC. A lot of stuff was created later on, or was unable to be finished during development, but was not really purposely held back as is. They admitted they had no way to get Mewtwo working on-time due to Melee's data being too old, so had no choice but to finish him later on(they didn't stop working on him even with the Wii U version still in development). He's a notable exception, of course, but Sakurai likes to release complete games, which he still did.

Also, without DLC, that means no balance patches, and we really needed those to improve the game itself. The game was honestly pretty unbalanced overall before DLC hit, and it's only gotten better competitively, and more fun casually with more characters to mess around with, as well as stages.

 

[FunAtParties]

Was unable to be finished on-time. It was also used as a gauge to see if people were interested in DLC and was also technically free originally.

I don't mind DLC. A lot of stuff was created later on, or was unable to be finished during development, but was not really purposely held back as is. They admitted they had no way to get Mewtwo working on-time due to Melee's data being too old, so had no choice but to finish him later on(they didn't stop working on him even with the Wii U version still in development). He's a notable exception, of course, but Sakurai likes to release complete games, which he still did.

Also, without DLC, that means no balance patches, and we really needed those to improve the game itself. The game was honestly pretty unbalanced overall before DLC hit, and it's only gotten better competitively, and more fun casually with more characters to mess around with, as well as stages.

I know balance patches are DLC, but I'm pretty sure the point of this convo is to talk about additional content.

Fair point about Mewtwo though.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Make it like Arms
Free characters on some updates
Unless the DLC is really BIG for paying the price

 

[Ixbran]

Mewtwo?

They said multiple times they were considering him, and even then didnt start the development of his character until after the game was finished and shipped out.

 

[FunAtParties]

They said multiple times they were considering him, and even then didnt start the development of his character until after the game was finished and shipped out.

Yeah sorry, I don't remember everything about Smash 4's development, just remember he was revealed before the games release

 

[Lyndis_]

Yeah sorry, I don't remember everything about Smash 4's development, just remember he was revealed before the games release

Before the Wii U version released. The 3DS version I believe had been out for a while at that point.

 

[FunAtParties]

Before the Wii U version released. The 3DS version I believe had been out for a while at that point.

I think you may be right about that.

 

[Morbi]

Before the Wii U version released. The 3DS version I believe had been out for a while at that point.

The 3DS version came out October 3rd relative to the Wii U's launch of November the 21st. So about a month and a half. The gap was about twice that for the Japanese audience.

 

[FunAtParties]

The 3DS version came out October 3rd relative to the Wii U's launch of November the 21st. So about a month and a half. The gap was about twice that for the Japanese audience.

I thought we were talking about the direct that revealed Mewtwo, not the Wii U game's release date.

 

[Morbi]

I thought we were talking about the direct that revealed Mewtwo, not the Wii U game's release date.

Oh, I misread because I never gathered the context. I read bottom to top here. Either way, it would have been around that time frame. October 23rd was when Mewtwo was revealed.

 

[FunAtParties]

Oh, I misread because I never gathered the context. I read bottom to top here. Either way, it would have been around that time frame. October 23rd was when Mewtwo was revealed.

Ok so it was after Smash 4 came out on the 3DS. Thanks

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

oh easily smash bros is too popular for dlc to end especially the character

i've seen a couple of games made way back then and still has the dlc available to buy

but dlc i kindof see as a safety net for some of the characters who didn't make it so feelings neutral for me since id rather ge the missing characters for free

 

[Tollhouse]

Odds of veterans returning are increased with DLC. We got Mewtwo, Lucas, and Doc back. If DLC gives us hope that a cut veteran will return, I am all for it.

 

[StarDustStorm]

When developers develop DLC when the game is still in production and they are not finished with the game, it will potentially hurt the quality of the base game.
Sakurai and his team knows this so they didn't make DLC during its development. I'd imagine that the developers will be burnt out during production if they did it like most companies and feel like they aren't completing the actual game.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe includes all of the DLC of the original MK8, if they are going to go the DLC route for Smash after release. They should release a retail version of DLC after they finished their plans for DLC in order to preserve the game once the servers are no longer working for the future. Hackers have preserved the online servers of Wii games, and are now doing this with the Wii U.

If there are going to cut any content from Sm4sh Wii U/3DS including characters. (which I don't agree with any character being cut.) DLC will sort of feel like a sour taste in people's mouths. I'm okay with returning any other character that wasn't from the Wii U/3DS Versions. Another problem that comes with DLC is that the meta game is changed a lot from this most notably from the DLC Newcomers and balance patches overall. Though people will be more encouraged to play the game since the game is rapidly changing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As long as DLC is optional, and not required to complete the main game, I'm okay with it. The only problem is knowing that the Nintendo Switch ports tend to have DLC included in the main game itself, changing something that was originally optional into something that you have to do to fully complete the game.

In Mario Kart 8, you don't have to have the DLC to fully complete the game, but in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, you have to complete even the DLC cups if you want 100% completion.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How to do DLC right:

Have a completed game and make sure it isn't cutting out content to sell you later.
Make it easy for players to get this content and not a pain if they do not own it. Make it a valuable expansion.
Don't drown players in it makes it easy to access.

How to do DLC Wrong:

Cutting content to make it a preorder bonus, Goro from mortal combat X.
Having an incomplete game that is trying to get more money where it looks like the DLC should have been in the game first.
Doesn't announce that half the roster will be DLC, Blazblue cross tag battle.

Smash is doing all of the DLC right and not doing anything obnoxious with it. Sure smash 4 has 40 dollars of DLC but that was a period over 1.5 years and it was a complete game at launch.

I'd put money down on DLC being a thing, Nintendo likes the idea of doing a lot more post launch to keep updating it's games in the switch late WiiU era. Which is fine in my eyes since it's DLC done right and not doing what a lot of Triple A companies do.

 

[DakotaBonez]

To me, one of the biggest issues with DLC is that it makes it more difficult to maintain a game long into the future. Eventually, the DLC will no longer be for sale. That just doesn't sit well with me.

Don't really care either way, though. It will likely happen. I imagine it's highly profitable.

By the point that the current Eshop shuts down, all of it's game will likely have had their files (including DLC) extracted onto the internet.
Ideally, Nintendo will wise-up and release a Deluxe edition of Smash with all DLC later on.

Hopefully Smash5 doesn't get seasonal DLC that's only purchasable for a few months like in Street Fighter V.
THAT bugs the sh#$ out of me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

#HBC | Red Ryu : If I recall, EA has been the most guilty for making its games have microtransactions and lootboxes that you have to purchase if you want to get anywhere. DLC should be optional, NOT mandatory.

By the point that the current Eshop shuts down, all of it's game will likely have had their files (including DLC) extracted onto the internet.
Ideally, Nintendo will wise-up and release a Deluxe edition of Smash with all DLC later on.

Hopefully Smash5 doesn't get seasonal DLC that's only purchasable for a few months like in Street Fighter V.
THAT bugs the sh#$ out of me.

Now that you've mentioned it, if the Wii U's eShop closes, then you won't be able to redownload any of the software titles that you've purchased in the past.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

DLC is a wonderful thing, especially for fighting games.

Look at anyone’s dream rosters here, and they’ve all got 70+ characters. There’s no way that that many characters can feasibly be added to vanilla, and it bloats the roster.

DLC meanwhile will allow them to continue supporting (and balancing) the game for a while, and allows people to pick and choose other characters to add. These may be characters who are not as popular, or third parties, or the like. I actually never ended up buying Bayonetta or Corrin because I left Sm4sh by then (there is almost nothing to do single player), but I like having to option to.

Especially for Smash, bring it all on!

One of the biggest arguments against DLC revolves around people who want balance to end. Naturally that’ll make competitive Smash easier since you can just pick a top tier and learn it well, but Smash is not only for competitive players. Casual fans would love to see their cut veterans return, or not-so-popular but still loved characters. It’s not that important if everything is perfectly balanced, as long as nothing is game breaking.

 

[Wyoming]

DLC is fine as long as isn't planned while in development.

Only thing I'd change from Smash 4 is the introduction of packs. Give me a pack with 2-3 fighters and 1-2 stages and I'd say it has better value for the consumer. It can be any combo as long as there's enough content to warrant a pack.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

DLC is a wonderful thing, especially for fighting games.

Look at anyone’s dream rosters here, and they’ve all got 70+ characters. There’s no way that that many characters can feasibly be added to vanilla, and it bloats the roster.

DLC meanwhile will allow them to continue supporting (and balancing) the game for a while, and allows people to pick and choose other characters to add. These may be characters who are not as popular, or third parties, or the like. I actually never ended up buying Bayonetta or Corrin because I left Sm4sh by then (there is almost nothing to do single player), but I like having to option to.

Especially for Smash, bring it all on!

One of the biggest arguments against DLC revolves around people who want balance to end. Naturally that’ll make competitive Smash easier since you can just pick a top tier and learn it well, but Smash is not only for competitive players. Casual fans would love to see their cut veterans return, or not-so-popular but still loved characters. It’s not that important if everything is perfectly balanced, as long as nothing is game breaking.

Alright, shut this thread down. Captain Spandex nailed it. There's no way anyone can argue against DLC with this post. There's nothing to even add anymore.

 

[DakotaBonez]

#HBC | Red Ryu
Now that you've mentioned it, if the Wii U's eShop closes, then you won't be able to redownload any of the software titles that you've purchased in the past.

What I was saying is that by the time the eshop shuts down, we'll be able to emulate Smash4 and all of it's DLC, and other other software we might've purchased.
Currently everything from the Wii shop is able to be emulated, this includes dlc for the few games that had DLC like Mega Man 10

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu : If I recall, EA has been the most guilty for making its games have microtransactions and lootboxes that you have to purchase if you want to get anywhere. DLC should be optional, NOT mandatory.

When it comes to DLC shenanigans a lot of the triple A companies have done some shady stuff with it, mostly activision, EA and Warner Brothers where the DLC sure looks like it is carving games up and being used to gate off content rather than expand it. That or trying to sell an incomplete/broken game then use DLC to fix it later after they conned people to buy it. Which is something all of the above companies have done with a spice of Ubisoft and other companies thrown in there.

Nintendo has problems like any company, super protective of copyright/under stocking hardware/being 10 years behind some ideas, but when it comes to DLC they don't act scummy about it. Worst thing they do is a season pass which is basicly just preordering DLC which is not something I would advise doing unless you are 100% going to get it no matter how it turns out.

Also helps if the company doesn't shell out crappy dlc and builds good trust which Nintendo does better than most companies.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, selling an unfinished game is never a smart move, as it pretty much results in bad reception, regardless of any future fixes that come up. One notable example being Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, where it's pure glitchville, and to add insult to injury, only the Very Hard mode DLC has those game-breaking glitches fixed up.