Arena is kinda...

[E.Sage]

Arena is kinda dumb.. let me explain. You're in an arena with 5 other people. You win a match. You keep going. 5 people spectating. One of those 5 people is going to know how you play by the time it gets to them. They may even switch characters just to counter you.

I was playing my mii brawler. I'm winning match after match. It just so happens that on my 5th battle the player knows not to attack me directly on because I'll use counter throw? so instead he spends the whole time trying to throw me. He knows how I move and how I attack, how I set up my combos, because he's watched me do it 4 times already. This is border line cheating imo and the main reason I hate arena. It's like screen watching in 007. I'ts just scummy. I guess it would be okay with friends but if you're competitive like me, forget it.

I like quick match online for the element of surprise. people have no idea what you're doing to do.

Yea I'm kinda ranting..

 

[OnyanRings]

My biggest complaint is that i can't seem to get an arena running without an extreme amount of lag.
I never get any sort of lag when i do quick play so i'm not sure why this is happening...

Anyone else experiencing this ? :T

 

[Sucumbio]

LOL! Screen watching in 007... that's old skool

 

[Coolboy]

i wouldn't say it's scummy..more like you being just way to predictable,
can you really blame someone for knowing how you play and use it against you? ^^''
instead of saying it's scummy, maaaaybe try to play differently and be less predictable?

 

[Metalbro]

Okay, lets say you go to a local tournament. You can watch a player play others in your pool before it's your turn to face them. What difference does that make if it happens online? Stop making up excuses for losing and start playing less predictibly and adapt to your opponents.

 

[Sean²]

I bet you don't rematch in Quickplay, either.

People are allowed to adapt to how you play. And you should then adapt your play to counter their adaptation, and so on. That's what makes the game interesting. Relying on blindsiding your opponents with a vastly underplayed character is a bad tactic and doesn't help you or anyone else get any better.

 

[TheKooladion]

That's like Armada calling someone else a cheater because they watch his streams and knows how he plays so they have an advantage.

Stick to your smashball ffas, you salty casual.

 

[KatKit]

We can critique them without sounding so harsh.

Anyway, yeah... people have general gameplans, and sticking to them can be comfortable/effective, but you have to change things up to avoid being predictable. I know it's a meme, but you really have to improvise and adapt to overcome lol. Treat each match and opponent differently. Ideally, changing characters after an Arena win would be nice, but the "king of the hill" aspect has its own charms, IMO.

My biggest complaint is that i can't seem to get an arena running without an extreme amount of lag.
I never get any sort of lag when i do quick play so i'm not sure why this is happening...

Anyone else experiencing this ? :T

My experience is the opposite: Arenas are noticeably less laggy for me. It may be because of my preferred stage/rules/max number of entrants.

 

[Sean²]

My biggest complaint is that i can't seem to get an arena running without an extreme amount of lag.
I never get any sort of lag when i do quick play so i'm not sure why this is happening...

Anyone else experiencing this ? :T

Arenas with more than 2 players can have this. If any spectators have a bad connection to either player, it stacks their lag onto the match, even if they aren't playing.

 

[OnyanRings]

Arenas with more than 2 players can have this. If any spectators have a bad connection to either player, it stacks their lag onto the match, even if they aren't playing.

Woah, really ? Dang, that sucks.
Is there any way Nintendo could fix this ?

 

[Sean²]

I would say probably not, barring a total rework of the entire online infrastructure.

 

[Ez Quinn]

Yep, that’s kinda what arenas are for, you’re allowed to spectate so you can analyze your opponent. After all that’s how you evolve in the game. I was in an arena once playing as D3 and this other guy came in and used D3 too. He destroyed everybody in the arena over and over again. People got frustrated and left, but I stuck with it. I played him so many times until I won, and then I fought him again and again. This game is more about reading your opponent than actual skill.

 

[Deleted member]

Mii players don't get to complain.

 

[Crystanium]

Arena is kinda dumb.. let me explain. You're in an arena with 5 other people. You win a match. You keep going. 5 people spectating. One of those 5 people is going to know how you play by the time it gets to them. They may even switch characters just to counter you.

And that's a problem because? You should look forward to playing against challenging opponents. Defeating players who aren't as skilled as you are nothing more than hollow victories. I suppose if you want a challenge then, just sandbag.

I was playing my mii brawler. I'm winning match after match. It just so happens that on my 5th battle the player knows not to attack me directly on because I'll use counter throw? so instead he spends the whole time trying to throw me. He knows how I move and how I attack, how I set up my combos, because he's watched me do it 4 times already. This is border line cheating imo and the main reason I hate arena. It's like screen watching in 007. I'ts just scummy. I guess it would be okay with friends but if you're competitive like me, forget it.

Um, people in the competitive scene do watch others play. You can observe it in just about any video where two players are in 1v1. Others will linger around, perhaps just to watch, while others might be trying to familiarize themselves with who they might face. This isn't cheating. It's called "meta-game". If you think it's "border line [sic] cheating", then perhaps competitive play isn't for you. Try not to be predictable, or if you are, recognize it and correct it during mid-match.

This game is more about reading your opponent than actual skill.

Reading your opponent is a skill in and of itself. You don't just play a game and automatically know what your opponent is going to do next. You have to develop this skill, which can be difficult if you're not mindful. Sure, you could brute force your way to a win, but that's not really a strategy.

 

[E.Sage]

That's like Armada calling someone else a cheater because they watch his streams and knows how he plays so they have an advantage.

Stick to your smashball ffas, you salty casual.

I don't watch streams so I don't know who you're talking about

I'd love to play smashballs ffas, but only offline with friends. I can't be anything more than a casual as I'm a 32 year old man with a full time job and a family to take care of. But you're more than welcome to jump online if you want me to "casually" whoop your @$$.

I bet you don't rematch in Quickplay, either.

I bet you're wrong! Especially if it was a close match. The only time I don't rematch is if it's completely one sided.

 

[antipcperson]

dude you are so mad over something that happens so often, if he could tell your entire strategy from only 5 games you have to up your game, he found the counterplay, so in the wise words of Banana Boy "Just counter their counter to your counterplay." lol

p.s. dont be salty over it just get back up and watch his play

 

[E.Sage]

My biggest complaint is that i can't seem to get an arena running without an extreme amount of lag.
I never get any sort of lag when i do quick play so i'm not sure why this is happening...

Anyone else experiencing this ? :T

Weirdly enough, when if I exit arena and go to quick play it will give me the "you can't play online right now due to unstable connection" yet I'm free to go back to arena where I am not experiencing lag. So I have to either relaunch the game or quickly turn my switch off/on again. Not sure if that's a bug.

 

[Crystanium]

Weirdly enough, when if I exit arena and go to quick play it will give me the "you can't play online right now due to unstable connection" yet I'm free to go back to arena where I am not experiencing lag. So I have to either relaunch the game or quickly turn my switch off/on again. Not sure if that's a bug.

I experience something similar, but I don't think it's a bug. In Public Arenas, you don't gain or lose GSP, so it's probably Nintendo's way of protecting your points (if you care about them). The last thing you'd want is to end up in match full of latency and either drudge through it, or get penalized for SDing.

 

[Kiligar]

I bet you're wrong! Especially if it was a close match. The only time I don't rematch is if it's completely one sided.

Sorry that these guys jumped to conclusions. It was quite rude. They have a point, but did not have to be so harsh in enforcing it. You have a point that it causes a problem for you, but that’s what playing is for, to find solutions. What I want in patch 3.0.0 is for there to be two rings in arena so more people can play, and I’d like an option to go into a training room while you wait.

 

[E.Sage]

Sorry that these guys jumped to conclusions. It was quite rude. They have a point, but did not have to be so harsh in enforcing it. You have a point that it causes a problem for you, but that’s what playing is for, to find solutions. What I want in patch 3.0.0 is for there to be two rings in arena so more people can play, and I’d like an option to go into a training room while you wait.

People have a tendency to jump to conclusions, as I have a tendency to rant when I'm having a bad day. I don't hold it against them. I'm trying to swap up my game play as they suggested, but I have my way of playing the game. I just try not to do the same combo more the 2 times in a row especially if it fails.

Training room is a great idea btw.

 

[Kiligar]

People have a tendency to jump to conclusions, as I have a tendency to rant when I'm having a bad day. I don't hold it against them. I'm trying to swap up my game play as they suggested, but I have my way of playing the game. I just try not to do the same combo more the 2 times in a row especially if it fails.

Training room is a great idea btw.

You main Mii Brawler? I love the Mii fighters so much although everyone treats them like a joke. It is so satisfying to beat a try hard Lucina/Palutena etc with a silly looking Mii. What move set do you use? I use flame kick for neutral, Suplex, Axe Kick and Counter Throw.

 

[E.Sage]

What move set do you use? I use flame kick for neutral, Suplex, Axe Kick and Counter Throw.

I normally use that flame kick as well as axe kick. I tend to switch between explosive kick and suplex for side-b. I'm still trying to figure out what build works best for my play style. Counter throw is great but only against certain characters, So i'd say 80% of the time I'm usually training with feint jump as it is way less risky. I like suplex for people that overuse their shield, but explosive kick is better for recovery and doesn't put you in useless state so you can get back to the stage easier once you're launched.

 

[Kiligar]

Counter throw is second strongest counter in the game, I always use it against heavies because it one shots against their forward smashes. Suplex is great against “shield campers” which happens often with Mii Brawler, but it’s a trade for recovery. Competitively in tournaments they use Shotput, but at my level flame kick is just too cheesy. Axe Kick is prepatch Chrom, and goes the highest out of all 3 recoveries. That’s my explanation for what I pick, but what I love most is the customization in this character. You use whatever you like best.

 

[Sean²]

I bet you're wrong! Especially if it was a close match. The only time I don't rematch is if it's completely one sided.

That was just my first thought when I read this thread. Regardless, you should encourage people to adapt to your playstyle so you can adapt to their adaptations. It's how you get better.

Sorry that these guys jumped to conclusions. It was quite rude. They have a point, but did not have to be so harsh in enforcing it. You have a point that it causes a problem for you, but that’s what playing is for, to find solutions. What I want in patch 3.0.0 is for there to be two rings in arena so more people can play, and I’d like an option to go into a training room while you wait.

Honestly, there was maybe one comment on this thread that inched a bit over the top. There's no need to apologize for other people.

 

[TheKooladion]

I don't watch streams so I don't know who you're talking about

I'd love to play smashballs ffas, but only offline with friends. I can't be anything more than a casual as I'm a 32 year old man with a full time job and a family to take care of. But you're more than welcome to jump online if you want me to "casually" whoop your @$$.

I'm saying that spectating isn't cheating

And whoop my ass with what? A mii?

 

[$.A.F.]

Spectating Is Not Cheating Scrub. That’s how you learn. If you watch tournaments you see how top players play correct? That means you see them play a lot. Is it now “unfair” if you watch the vods to see what they’re doing? Is it cheating? If you’r So predictable that you lose as soon as you can’t spam counter, that’s a you problem. If they adapt, you should too. You have the same opportunity to watch them play. So quit bellyaching and get good.

 

[E.Sage]

Spectating Is Not Cheating Scrub. That’s how you learn. If you watch tournaments you see how top players play correct? That means you see them play a lot. Is it now “unfair” if you watch the vods to see what they’re doing? Is it cheating? If you’r So predictable that you lose as soon as you can’t spam counter, that’s a you problem. If they adapt, you should too. You have the same opportunity to watch them play. So quit bellyaching and get good.

You really fit your username there, buddy. Life gets better when you treat people with respect, but you'll learn that one day. Hopefully.

I'm saying that spectating isn't cheating

And whoop my *** with what? A mii?

since you're so confident, why not play me? you like throwing insults, so back it up.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

Well in a way, if you're winning, you kind of deserve to let others watch and analyze you until they get a turn. But I don't think it's anything to complain about as that logic should be normal. Similarly to if someone watches you in tournament, they want to know how you play before they get the chance to go against you. So I don't think that's a problem and if those people who you said would change characters to counter you, they're punished and go back at the line anyway so in a way that should be good for you (I will say that it's a flaw to anyone else because that's stupid to go back for changing characters).

Honestly you should be glad that your opponent caught on to you because he's the one adapting and that should make you adapt as well. Clearly you've been playing the same so it's not his fault that he noticed it. This is how a player learns to get better and there shouldn't be any shame on watching your opponent.

 

[$.A.F.]

You really fit your username there, buddy. Life gets better when you treat people with respect, but you'll learn that one day. Hopefully.

Great. Any actual counter arguments for my points? The rudest thing I did was call you a scrub. That seems to be accurate if you labeled adapting to your opponent as “cheating”. If you want to respond, respond to my points and not with strawman arguments I’ll even apologize (I’m sure for being rude) if you want. Now can you actually debunk my argument, or nah.

And what about my username? It’s my initials lol.

 

[E.Sage]

Well in a way, if you're winning, you kind of deserve to let others watch and analyze you until they get a turn. But I don't think it's anything to complain about as that logic should be normal. Similarly to if someone watches you in tournament, they want to know how you play before they get the chance to go against you. So I don't think that's a problem and if those people who you said would change characters to counter you, they're punished and go back at the line anyway so in a way that should be good for you (I will say that it's a flaw to anyone else because that's stupid to go back for changing characters).

Honestly you should be glad that your opponent caught on to you because he's the one adapting and that should make you adapt as well. Clearly you've been playing the same so it's not his fault that he noticed it. This is how a player learns to get better and there shouldn't be any shame on watching your opponent.

You make some really good point and I respect that. Keep it mind this was a rant from yesterday and I'm not upset about it anymore. However there are some toxic individuals in this thread that like to throw insults around but for some reason refuse to spar with me. I don't think those people have the right to tell someone whom they've never played with to "get good"

Great. Any actual counter arguments for my points? The rudest thing I did was call you a scrub. That seems to be accurate if you labeled adapting to your opponent as “cheating”. If you want to respond, respond to my points and not with strawman arguments I’ll even apologize (I’m sure for being rude) if you want. Now can you actually debunk my argument, or nah.

I don't spam, I didn't get to 4,400,000 on a mii brawler from spamming. It's easy to tell people to adapt/counter/punish but to actually do that takes a lot of practice. I said it was "border line cheating imo" (because I was angry), in the sense that they've been able to analyze me for 4 games straight so they know not to do certain things against me. Yet I haven't seen them play nor played them in the past. To me it's an unfair advantage, that's MY opinion. I'm not calling you a scrub because you have a different opinion, that's just plain childish.

 

[$.A.F.]

I don't spam, I didn't get to 4,400,000 on a mii brawler from spamming. It's easy to tell people to adapt/counter/punish but to actually do that takes a lot of practice. I said it was "border line cheating imo" (because I was angry), in the sense that they've been able to analyze me for 4 games straight so they know not to do certain things against me. Yet I haven't seen them play nor played them in the past. To me it's an unfair advantage, that's MY opinion. I'm not calling you a scrub because you have a different opinion, that's just plain childish.

Not going to lie, it’s very possible to do that in lag especially with an obscure character nobody knows how to deal with. Online has different working strategies and play styles that would never be possible offline but get punished less due to latency among other factors. Learning to adapt and punish isn’t too hard honestly. It’s very doable but you don’t seem to want to do that. Not even bringing up the fact that as soon as they beat you, you can watch what they’re doing as well. Like I said, multiple top players have VoDs of them out on the web that anyone in the world can watch and hundreds of thousands have. If you study footage to look for weaknesses in their game is that cheating? If you can’t adapt mid set, that’s a you problem. Just because VoiD doesn’t have footage on Jim #369 doesn’t mean he’ll lose. Because he can adapt mid set. You need to be flexible to get good at smash. And even if adapting is hard, that means that your opponent worked for the win by adapting to your style. Also stop using the “muh opinion” fallacy. You are arguing for something being objectively game breaking and unfair. This isn’t something without a correct answer like a favorite color. You aren’t absolved from criticism. And I’m not calling you a scrub because your opinion is different, I’m doing it because your statements are indicative of your being a scrub. If someone says that blacks are subhuman, you call them a racist. If someone voices unironic support for marxist policies, they are a communist. If someone argues that women deserve rights, they are a feminist. If someone says that something is unfair even though it has counterplay but you want it Banned anyways since your too lazy to learn it, you are a scrub. That’s how it works. So you can fish for sympathy on Smashboards, or you can open up training mode or YouTube or discord and learn how to adapt. Free time isn’t the issue if you supposedly can sit down on Quickplay and grind to 4.4 million GSP.

 

[E.Sage]

Not going to lie, it’s very possible to do that in lag especially with an obscure character nobody knows how to deal with. Online has different working strategies and play styles that would never be possible offline but get punished less due to latency among other factors. Learning to adapt and punish isn’t too hard honestly. It’s very doable but you don’t seem to want to do that. Not even bringing up the fact that as soon as they beat you, you can watch what they’re doing as well. Like I said, multiple top players have VoDs of them out on the web that anyone in the world can watch and hundreds of thousands have. If you study footage to look for weaknesses in their game is that cheating? If you can’t adapt mid set, that’s a you problem. Just because VoiD doesn’t have footage on Jim #369 doesn’t mean he’ll lose. Because he can adapt mid set. You need to be flexible to get good at smash. And even if adapting is hard, that means that your opponent worked for the win by adapting to your style. Also stop using the “muh opinion” fallacy. You are arguing for something being objectively game breaking and unfair. This isn’t something without a correct answer like a favorite color. You aren’t absolved from criticism. And I’m not calling you a scrub because your opinion is different, I’m doing it because your statements are indicative of your being a scrub. If someone says that blacks are subhuman, you call them a racist. If someone voices unironic support for marxist policies, they are a communist. If someone argues that women deserve rights, they are a feminist. If someone says that something is unfair even though it has counterplay but you want it Banned anyways since your too lazy to learn it, you are a scrub. That’s how it works. So you can fish for sympathy on Smashboards, or you can open up training mode or YouTube or discord and learn how to adapt. Free time isn’t the issue if you supposedly can sit down on Quickplay and grind to 4.4 million GSP.

See my problem isn't the advice your giving. It's the way you're giving it. You're still throwing insults, you're still insinuating. I didn't say anything about wanting anything banned and you're calling me lazy yet you've never seen me play. How do you know I won't take the initiative to get better? Fish for sympathy on Smashboards? is this the way you guys always respond to a rant threads? getting to 4.4 and staying there wasn't/isn't really that hard. I've been on smashboards for a week, but if the community is as rude as you are I'm actually happy to just delete my account and call it a day.

 

[$.A.F.]

See my problem isn't the advice your giving. It's the way you're giving it. You're still throwing insults, you're still insinuating. I didn't say anything about wanting anything banned and you're calling me lazy yet you've never seen me play. How do you know I won't take the initiative to get better? Fish for sympathy on Smashboards? is this the way you guys always respond to a rant threads? getting to 4.4 and staying there wasn't/isn't really that hard. I've been on smashboards for a week, but if the community is as rude as you are I'm actually happy to just delete my account and call it a day.

You called it scummy and cheating and called it a problem. That implies you want it gone extremely heavily. I’m not calling you lazy for any reason other than the fact that you’re quicker to make rant threads about problems than actually fix them yourself. You said it takes too much practice to learn this techniques counterplay. However you implied that this technique is game breakingly unfair which yes, suggests you would want it gone. You would rather request a mechanic to be removed from the game than employ existing counterplay. That sounds like laziness does it not? And this is how we respond to rants about non existent issues that you insist are “unfair” when the opposite has been proven. And the community will be as rude as I if you complain about techniques that you have trouble with as “cheating” without looking for counterplay and if vocal enough cause unnecessary nerfs or removal of mechanics because somebody couldn’t look up a G5 smash guide. Threads and posts like this are why characters like Mac, K. Rool, and D3 received nerfs. Too much focus on complaining, not enough on counterplay. Nobody wants that attitude in the community. And yes, fishing for sympathy. You only responded to comments that sympathized with or agreed with you. And the few comments you responded to that argued against you were only the ones containing an insult so you could victimize yourself in the response instead of approaching the points they made. And no, you have not implied in the slightest you attempted to adapt. If you had, this thread wouldn’t have been made and you wouldn’t still be defending your point as correct. Employing the aforementioned counterplay would alleviate your vexations. If these statements hurt your feelings, I do not apologize as you have not in any way proved them incorrect. Even my insults have some logic to them do they not? If you don’t like me, I’m okay with that. I have been rather harsh undoubtedly. But don’t let me influence your perception of the community. Find your local scene and judge for yourself. I will not sugar coat my opinions. I will leave you with some advice on the two Cs: Attempt to Counter before attempting to Complain.

 

[Ez Quinn]

D3’s nerf actually buffed him, but that’s beside the point rn.

The point is that you feel/felt that being able to watch your opponent in an arena is cheating. Now you have plenty of opinions that suggest other wise. (Although some harsher than others). So at the end of the day, take both sides of the argument and decide for yourself, “Is observing an opponent before fighting them cheating” if you feel the answer is no, Great! We helped you see a new perspective and it will hopefully help you in the long run. If you feel the answer is yes.... then just don’t play arena. Sakurai implemented the mechanic for a reason. And just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that’s others don’t like it either. As you can see, many people love this mechanic. If you don’t, well that’s your cup of tea. It’s not a PROBLEM per say. It’s just an opinion. Now I sure as heck don’t agree with you, butI won’t say anything rude or nasty either. I also won’t try and argue that you’re wrong, because that’s not who I am. Others have made their points clear.

I hope I have helped you in some way. And plz don’t hate this community, yeah there are gonna be some rude people (after all we are humans!) but this is a good and helpful community and I hope you stay!

 

[Sucumbio]

Dunno I tried it didn't like it ain't been back since.

I know one thing tho.... This thread is....


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