Are you happy that EVERYONE IS HERE!!

[DarthEnderX]

But why did they have to change Link, Zelda and Ganondorf's designs? Oh and Wolf looked better in Brawl than what he does now.

You would think, now that lots of characters have alt costumes, that these characters would have as well and they just let you pick which design you like best.

Like, other than the cool sword, I think OoT Ganondorf looks kinda doofy. I wish he still had his TP look as an alt costume.

An alt that's a completely different character with a different name should take another slot on the roster in my opinion, and if the Koopalings take a new slot, that would be seven Mario characters added to the seven we already had and fourteen characters from one franchise when the others haven't even got to ten would be too much even if it's Nintendo's favorite series.

I think making each Koopaling it's own echo is taking it too far.

I think a better choice, in their case, would be splitting them into two groups, and making one group the "main" and the other the "echoes".

Like, the main group would be the "heavies". Where you have Bowsers Jr. and then Morton, Roy and Ludwig are his alt costumes. Then the echo group would be the "lights". Where you have Wendy and then Lemmy, Larry and Iggy are her alt cotumes.

 

[Electric-Gecko]

Are you happy to take it all? Regardless of you like?
...
The sheer novelty of having everyone here, is just mind-blowing. I see a lot of "who would you replace" topics and discussions.
...

I don't quite agree with the decision, but as for whether I'm happy about it; I actually feel split. I voted "neutral".

They must think they can't disappoint anyone when they have all the characters they've ever had. But that's not the case when the movesets have changed. I'm a Pit main in Brawl, so I didn't like his overhauled moveset in Smash 4. I want his new moveset to be more like his Brawl moveset, but if that doesn't happen, then I won't have my favourite character back.

Back to the question: On the negative hand, too many fighters means the game is bloated, harder to decide on a main, harder for the devs to balance. Some of these characters were a bad idea to add in the first place, and if "everyone must return", then they can't learn from their mistakes.

I also don't like the roster choices they made in Smash 4. I like Rosalina as a character (for example), and she's my Mario Kart main, but she doesn't work well as a Smash Bros fighter. Wii Fit Trainer doesn't fit the theme of Smash Bros. Dr Mario is a great game, but he doesn't have a good enough moveset to justify being added to Smash 4. Roy was a Marth clone in Melee just to promote his game, and would be better replaced with Lyn (or even Anna).

On the other hand, Super Smash Bros Ultimate is just a "software update" to Smash Bros 4 Wii U. Since they already made these bad characters for Wii U, there's no development cost to them being in Ultimate (besides any changes they make to them).

So yeah; I think they made the wrong roster choices in Smash 4, but since they already made them, I'm split. They just better not have them all unlocked from the start (which is what they did with the Mario Kart 8 roster in the Deluxe version).

I'm happy no one got their favorite fighter cut.

Well, my favourite is Brawl Pit. I wish they would let Pit have his Brawl moveset while Dark Pit has the new one, but I don't have high hopes.

Don't act like Lyn doesn't have waifu elements. Though, in general, I still don't like the term, "waifu."

I think the term is just overused at this point.

 

[Kuragari]

Stoked that everyone is back. Best news from the Smash E3 thing that could have happened.

 

[Apollo500]

Absolutely! I did wonder when they said they'd be numbering each fighter. I thought "They wouldn't do that unless they were gonna list everyone... would they?" and then Snake showed up with "EVERYONE IS HERE!" and even though I was kind of expecting it, I was just floored. Before that presentation, I didn't think there would ever be a Smash where absolutely everyone in series history came back. Especially Young Link and Pichu!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not having all previous charactes is a legit problem, though. The game is supposed to be a sequel, and when you remove something from the previous game, it makes it inferior in a certain aspect, because it doesn't have X character on it. Especially on fighting games, where characters are the gameplay.

It's a very big and known issue. If you don't cut and focus on only a few characters, it's hard to add new ones - I belive Sakurai has already stated that before, and we all know that's why cuts happen.

So having everyone that came before is like, damn, they are indeed pulling a drem game. No one is left out, which means no fan will be dissapointed - which can't really be said about any other fighting game sequel ever that had a cut character. What if the cut one is your main, you know? It would suck, but now it doesn't for no one.

It makes me want everything back.
The old stages.
All old modes.
Even the previous Subspace.

But I dont think its fair to want the old content...
its not cutting content. Sequels often dont have some of the previous games content. Most notably story. Almost no game comes with the previous games story.
A sequel is not made to be everything of the original. Star Wars 5 did not retell Star Wars 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes I am happy with the decision and what we've seen of the results of that.

I think that if people vote no, they probably have one of two reasons. They hold a vendetta against a character in the game (a really silly opinion to be honest), or they feel like Smash games are more worth their weight in gold when it's more about newcomers than anything else (which is much more understandable).

A reason why I would say no? Well, for me, the characters aren't everything, not anymore. In terms of the roster I don't think it can get much better, so let's look at the rest of the game from here on out. Items, stages, and most importantly, modes!! We need modes or else this will feel just as partially barebones as Smash 4's individual versions did.

 

[SirCamp]

So I voted no. I've talked about this before and people did not... take it very well. But honestly I don't have a vendetta against any characters.

I just don't think this is a healthy move for the series. Literally the first post I ever made on these forums, and the reason I felt the need to make an account to begin with in fact, was advocating for cuts. You can check my post history if you want.

Ultimately what it comes down to is that continuing to make Smash games with no cuts is just not really feasible. They have to happen eventually. And this sort of stands in opposition to the fact that new comers are really the life blood (at least in my opinion) of the series moving forward. And I think this decision is going to create the expectation that cuts don't need to or shouldn't happen in the future. And will likely lead to backlash when they inevitably do happen again. Sakurai has even alluded to this in a recent interview.

And to be frank I don't think that a character having previously appeared in Smash makes their presence more (or less for that matter) important than any other character moving forward. To be honest that's the reason I'm a little surprised Jigglypuff is still around. Precedence just isn't a good reason in my opinion. Or another example, having three separate versions of Link just feels clunky to me. Especially when there are other viable candidates from Zelda that could represent other aspects of the series. This is especially true I think when it comes to third party characters. They aren't truly guests if they never leave now are they? And if 3rd party characters never get cut we will either end up with an ever increasing number of them (which I don't think is good as it isn't the focus of smash) or we will simply have the same ones over and over. Neither of which seem like good options to me.

I also think no cuts is a problem in particular for those series that have a lot of characters already. We already have push back against the idea of adding any new Fire Emblem characters, but it would also be weird if we didn't get any moving forward even as Fire Emblem as a series continues. At some point, it makes sense to me anyway, to pare down the FE reps to allow for some new blood from FE without having FE characters start to take over the roster. The same could be said for Pokemon. Perhaps even especially for Pokemon since individual Pokemon usually aren't all that important anyway.

Really I just think that cuts are necessary to allow for a reasonably well balanced game that also has a reasonable number of new additions to keep things interesting and also to allow for the inclusion of new series as Smash iterations move forward. But this is also influenced by my bias which is that the most important part of smash games are the newcomers. I also tend to get hung up on representation. I would personally much prefer a wider breadth of franchises represented by playable characters than to have fewer franchises with larger numbers of characters per franchise. And I think cuts tends to push more toward the latter since larger franchises will tend to get reps, but with no cuts their roster share, so to speak, will just be ever increasing. and leave less room for more obscure franchises.

So yeah I can honestly say my heart sank a little throughout the entire direct. The gameplay looks great, and don't get me wrong I'm I'll get the game and enjoy it just the same, but as far as characters go (the most hype part for me, surprise surprise) I can see that ultimate is just not going in the direction I would have personally liked it to go.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that continuing to make Smash games with no cuts is just not really feasible. They have to happen eventually.

Why? It's not like it's a yearly franchise. It just means each game requires a little more time and effort to develop properly. And for arguably the biggest franchise of a first party publisher, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to get that time and effort.

Really I just think that cuts are necessary to allow for a reasonably well balanced game

But Smash has only become more balanced the more characters it has added.

Now, you could argue that that's because the balance was really terrible to begin with because they didn't really care, but still, Smash 4 had the largest roster and probably the best balance outside of Bayonetta.

 

[SirCamp]

Why? It's not like it's a yearly franchise. It just means each game requires a little more time and effort to develop properly. And for arguably the biggest franchise of a first party publisher, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to get that time and effort.

But Smash has only become more balanced the more characters it has added.

Now, you could argue that that's because the balance was really terrible to begin with because they didn't really care, but still, Smash 4 had the largest roster and probably the best balance outside of Bayonetta.

I mean yeah honestly i would say that lol. Smash has not been a paragon of balance as far as competitive games go.

But anyway, even if we assume there are no technical hurdles and that there are no time issues, and thus you can fit as many characters into a game as you want, it still comes down to balance for me. Having all of those characters just isn't that interesting to me if a bunch are nigh useless. And the more vectors you add to the game that need to be balanced against each other the more difficult that task becomes. The more characters added the less reasonable it is to expect a reasonable amount of balance to the game. And yes i get that it will never be perfect as far as balance is concerned, but that isn't really a reason not to try.

And no Smash isn't a yearly franchise, but consider how fast the roster has grown with each iteration. I just don't really see the game being able to keep pace with that kind of growth. I'm open to being proven wrong, but it doesn't seem likely to me. In fact, the mere fact that we've been told not to expect many newcomers because of the emphasis on bringing everyone back seems like evidence of this to me. That is the part of the direct I truly disliked, because honestly if everyone comes back, sure that's fine (like i said I don't have animosity towards character in particular really), but to imply that it comes at the cost of what I actually want is gonna make me sad. Now it remains to be seen if this is just Sakurai being Sakurai, or if we truly arten't gonna get many all new characters, but at this point I'm not gonna get my hopes up for many more. That just seems silly. And to that end, I'm gonna be a little disappointed.

 

[DarthEnderX]

But anyway, even if we assume there are no technical hurdles and that there are no time issues, and thus you can fit as many characters into a game as you want, it still comes down to balance for me. Having all of those characters just isn't that interesting to me if a bunch are nigh useless.

They're only useless for competitive play though. They're not useless for the countless people that still play the game For Fun.

I think the goal is to just try and make the top tier of characters as broad as possible. And that basically becomes your "competitive roster". If the rest of the roster doesn't measure up, that's okay, and you just pretend they aren't there, instead of cutting them out of the game.

 

[SirCamp]

They're only useless for competitive play though. They're not useless for the countless people that still play the game For Fun.

I think the goal is to just try and make the top tier of characters as broad as possible. And that basically becomes your "competitive roster". If the rest of the roster doesn't measure up, that's okay, and you just pretend they aren't there, instead of cutting them out of the game.

I get where you're coming from here, but I don't fully agree. Balance is obviously not nearly as big of an issue for casual play but I still think it's pretty important. I'm actually not a competitive player in the sense that I go to tournaments, but just because you aren't part of that scene doesn't mean you aren't a competitive person. And, at least for me, that makes playing characters that just aren't very good not feel very good to play as either. Which is unfortunate because I also like to play as random a lot because for me the roster is a huge draw. But that becomes less enticing with more duds.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, when it comes to newcomers, Daisy was the one I wanted the most and I'm sure glad Ridley came in to prove naysayers wrong. I'm a little bummed that Krystal became an Assist Trophy, but I'll be fine if my most requested newcomers don't make it because I could at least do a Daisy vs Snake vs Pichu vs Cloud match. Anyway, the newcomer I really want to be announced next is Spring Man. And while Sakurai did say to not expect that many newcomers, that doesn't mean Inkling, Daisy and Ridley would be the only ones. And since Smash 4 introduced DLC, we can expect Ultimate to have DLC too and the DLC characters are guaranteed to be newcomers since all the veterans are already here. And the Switch has more power and memory than the 3DS and Wii U so having all the fighters back shouldn't limit the newcomers too much.

 

[soviet prince]

if there is going to be less newcomers like I expect, each character needs to be a big one to make it up and so far so good with ridley and inkling

 

[RouffWestie]

Yes because, by default, it’s leagues better than Smash for WiiU and 3DS, where characters who were locked behind a paywall should have been prioritized for the base game and vice-versa. At least now that bringing every veteran back was a priority, nobody is paying more money for content that had no good reason to cost extra in the first place.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yes because, by default, it’s leagues better than Smash for WiiU and 3DS, where characters who were locked behind a paywall should have been prioritized for the base game and vice-versa. At least now that bringing every veteran back was a priority, nobody is paying more money for content that had no good reason to cost extra in the first place.

...until the DLC starts coming out.

 

[Meta_X]

Personally I could hardly care less but thats just because of my character preferences, even if they significantly chopped the roster then Samus would most likely still be there and I would hope for Meta Knight but otherwise be ok. It does make me think about what they could have done if they hadn't focused on bringing back old content, but I'm not particularly disappointed either; this game is feeling like an "ultimate" version because of the roster and I'm glad for all the smash fans who are happy for the returning characters, I just dont really care myself. Only way it affects me directly is having to worry about so many matchups, but I think that's kind of a minor concern anyway

 

[Tino]

I'm just happy that everyone is happy that their favorites are in the game plus the 3 newcomers folks have been hoping for, despite one of them being an echo fighter.

That being said, since there's already a **** load of fighters in the game, I don't expect a lot of newcomers for this game like they have with Sm4sh.

 

[Tino]

I'm just happy that everyone is happy that their favorites are in the game plus the 3 newcomers folks have been hoping for, despite one of them being an echo fighter.

That being said, since there's already a **** load of fighters in the game, I don't expect a lot of newcomers for this game like they have with Sm4sh.

 

[soviet prince]

it just all depends on the quality of the newcomers that we got left

 

[RichWalk9891]

I'm pleasantly surprised that literally everyone is returning for Ultimate.

I'm pretty eager to see more of fresh newcomers in the future too.

 

[Yosher]

Even though my main Yoshi was likely never in any real danger of being cut, I'm certainly very happy to see everyone returning. In Melee I always preferred Young Link, and this time, due to how changed regular Link is, Young Link feels like the legacy Link that's been in Smash up until this point, which makes me extra happy for his return in particular, but I do love the fact that absolutely everyone has returned. Especially considering the fact that I don't think there's too many actual big newcomers left, so that just gives a 'might as well'-feel for bringing all the veterans back and the fact that now, no veteran fighter's fan will feel left out.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I voted yes as I’m very happy that we don’t need to have any discussions about who is getting cut from Smash 4, I generally wanted the roster to return and I definitely wanted the remaining major cut characters back. Having Smash 4 Plus Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake is a dream come true in a lot of regards.

That said, my final opinion on the whole ordeal will depend on the remaining newcomers as well. Inkling, Daisy as an Echo, and Ridley are all excellent additions to the roster as well. But I’ll need to see a couple more big additions (preferably fan picks to maintain the apparent theme of Ultimate as a game for the fans). But I also am afraid of just how limited the newcomers might be to have made this happen. Which is just a personal disappointment I’ll get over as I had been expecting Smash 4 plus like Ice Climbers, Wolf, and a couple characters anyway.

One other thing I will say. As pleasantly surprised as I am to see Young Link and Pichu return, I didn’t really need them to return. I’m also still very much against the Mii Fighters as I think they take way too much effort for what results in little payoff, so I’d rather them have been cut and that effort placed towards newcomers (Cause I’d imagine they’re only second to Kirby in terms of development time and resources invested in making them all work). I just don’t like custom characters like that in a fighting game all that much unless the game is completely built around that concept. But oh well, they have their fans too I know. And cutting any of these 5 would destroy the everyone is here motto.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I'm really happy that everyone's back but i'm wondering if Sakurai will take the concept even further, maybe this could extend to characters that didn't make it in the previous games? (Ayumi, Rhythm Heaven, Dixie)

 

[soviet prince]

I am interested in how many stages will be left out, we got 80+ don't see reasion to not do the r

 

[Jamison]

I wasn't too concerned with characters I enjoy getting cut. I honestly would prob prefer more new characters than resources spent on old characters like Pichu and recent characters like Wii Fit, Duck Hunt, or Robin. While the return of characters like Wolf and Snake is awesome it just feels like resources will be spent trying to balance returning characters. While I think it's fair to expect most of the same with the sm4sh roster and some top/high tier nerfs I don't have a ton of faith low/bottom tiered sm4sh characters getting significant buffs.
I don't think it'll be Bayo and Cloud City like sm4sh currently is but I doubt Ganon, Dedede, Zelda, Kirby are going to magically become good when there weren't great in sm4sh. Characters have been cut for reasons and I'd simply prefer more currently relevant characters than old characters. But it's hard to complain, there will still be some new characters and I thought a character like Wii Fit Trainer had no chance of returning so it's good for the people who enjoy playing WFT and other lesser popular characters. It's nice that people will likely be able to keep their mains.