Are We Too Politically Correct?

[Klimax]

Yes, way too much.

You know what could be really insulting why that PC ? Seeing Americans talking about oppressions that they don't know anything about. But because of PC you can't tell them "**** off fragile, you don't know anything what you're talking about, stop whining and just grow up". When I see Americans talking about sexism, I find it disgusting.

You want to experiment sexism ? Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where women are killed or disfigured by acid. That's where legitimate feminism and oppressed womens are. Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks in your country doesn't mean that your country is full of sexism.

You want to be a victim of homophobia ? Go to Chechnya or Russia, in the first, they're deported and killed. Having some homophobic morons in your country doesn't mean that your country is homophobic at all.

You want to be a victim of slavery ? Go to Libya, then talk. If you're an American, I don't care if you're black, yellow, white or blue, you don't have any idea about what slavery is.

That's my biggest problem with America, there's no major problems outside of some morons (spoiler, there's morons in every country in the world, deal with it) but people are still complaining like if they knew some ****in things about oppression. If you live in the US and your life is basically whining about everything, you are the problem. Because chances are that you're just a brat on social medias, using his smartophone, wasting time because he can.

You are not oppressed, just do something with your life. And stop believing the storytelling bull**** that celebrities are using all the time, you deserve better than this.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, way too much.

You know what could be really insulting why that PC ? Seeing Americans talking about oppressions that they don't know anything about. But because of PC you can't tell them "**** off fragile, you don't know anything what you're talking about, stop whining and just grow up". When I see Americans talking about sexism, I find it disgusting.

You want to experiment sexism ? Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where women are killed or disfigured by acid. That's where legitimate feminism and oppressed womens are. Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks in your country doesn't mean that your country is full of sexism.

You want to be a victim of homophobia ? Go to Chechnya or Russia, in the first, they're deported and killed. Having some homophobic morons in your country doesn't mean that your country is homophobic at all.

You want to be a victim of slavery ? Go to Libya, then talk. If you're an American, I don't care if you're black, yellow, white or blue, you don't have any idea about what slavery is.

That's my biggest problem with America, there's no major problems outside of some morons (spoiler, there's morons in every country in the world, deal with it) but people are still complaining like if they knew some ****in things about oppression. If you live in the US and your life is basically whining about everything, you are the problem. Because chances are that you're just a brat on social medias, using his smartophone, wasting time because he can.

You are not oppressed, just do something with your life. And stop believing the storytelling bull**** that celebrities are using all the time, you deserve better than this.

It's funny how yesterday I called out someone with the exact opposite ideals. As he was saying that bigotry is the same everywhere which I take issue with. Why? Because as you stated some places are much worse than others when it comes to that.

What I find ridiculous here though is the ludicrous way any criticism of America having some bigotry within is brushed aside. Take gay conversion therapy for instance, that's still legal in most states. But, oh, I guess it's fine for people to exploited and abused in that manner, they're not being killed after all.

Even outside of that I hear very similar excuses as to why we shouldn't be bothered to care about the bigotry of other countries and cultures. "Oh well it's a different culture, you can't judge them off of their culture, you don't know what it's like to be in their shoes."

 

[Mic_128]

You want to experiment sexism ? Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where women are killed or disfigured by acid. That's where legitimate feminism and oppressed womens are. Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks in your country doesn't mean that your country is full of sexism.

Does that mean I could just walk up to you and punch you in the face and then claim I didn't assault you?

"You want to experience assault? Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where people are killed or tortured. That's where legitimate assault is. Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks to you doesn't mean you experienced assault."


Just because women can get gang-***** in certain countries, doesn't make a guy grabbing a woman's ass here magically not sexist.

 

[Klimax]

Does that mean I could just walk up to you and punch you in the face and then claim I didn't assault you?

"You want to experience assault? Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where people are killed or tortured. That's where legitimate assault is. Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks to you doesn't mean you experienced assault."

Just because women can get gang-***** in certain countries, doesn't make a guy grabbing a woman's *** here magically not sexist.

That's funny how you try to make me say what i didn't say. "Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks in your country doesn't mean that your country is full of sexism." this is what I actually said, you even quoted it. But somehow you make me say "doesn't that mean that you experienced sexism" which is really different and you know it.

If you punched me in the face, I could say that you assaulted me but I couldn't say that the county is full of violence, because it's not true unless there's actual numbers proving that there's a real problems with people getting punched in the face.

Is this tolerable ? Of course not but no one said that it was okay. But at the end of the day, it's more of an isolated act by a moron than the reflection of a common thing in society, that's all. And since there's always some morons, the best thing is to learn how to deal with them and you don't do that by being PC or creating safe spaces. It makes things even worse.

And I could develop my point of why being PC just develop violence instead of reducing it with examples of different behaviors from different societies.

 

[Buddhahobo]

No, not at all. Political correctness is just basic decency, and there's a staggering lack of it on the internet, in politics, and in the population at large.

Did...you just say there's a staggering lack of "Political correctness" in "Politics"? Seriously?

Look, you can argue whether or not the thing being deemed politically correct is actually just basic decency, but that doesn't in any way make basic decency a synonym.

Use Politically Correct in a sentence, find literally anyone to ever use the term, look at the words making up the phrase itself. "Political correctness" is like "Mathematicians Answer", it's what politicians do. And is basic decency what you expect when you think of politicians?

At best, it means vague nonsensical double speak or nonanswer. At worst, it means actively lying. Which is, ya know, how anyone who uses the term unironically use it.

 

[Deleted member]

Did...you just say there's a staggering lack of "Political correctness" in "Politics"? Seriously?

Look, you can argue whether or not the thing being deemed politically correct is actually just basic decency, but that doesn't in any way make basic decency a synonym.

Use Politically Correct in a sentence, find literally anyone to ever use the term, look at the words making up the phrase itself. "Political correctness" is like "Mathematicians Answer", it's what politicians do. And is basic decency what you expect when you think of politicians?

At best, it means vague nonsensical double speak or nonanswer. At worst, it means actively lying. Which is, ya know, how anyone who uses the term unironically use it.

He meant "political correctness" in the same way that most of the thread means "political correctness". What most people mean by PC is "respecting or appealing to minorities or other disadvantaged people". Rather than how I think it should be defined going off of its name, "what is acceptable within the sphere of politics".

Again, you seem to be speaking in absolutes. "This is what this means, the dictionary says so" so to speak. But the problem is that language isn't that simple at all, terms get muddied in the water all the time nor do they literally mean as what they say. Which is why in communication, it's important to read context beyond what the words literally say.

 

[Arle Nadja]

When a discussion stops being about the merits of the opinions and facts therein and starts being about your right to have it, for example if free speech/political correctness/virtue signalling/whatever are invoked, something has gone very wrong.

"Because some uneducated morons acted like jerks in your country doesn't mean that your country is full of sexism."

But at the end of the day, it's more of an isolated act by a moron than the reflection of a common thing in society, that's all.

Okay, so we can agree that these are both things you said right and that they are related right? You said it's an isolated act, and doesn't reflect societal problems. I'm ignoring the word 'common' in particular because that word is very subjective and therefore cannot be verified or disproven. So here are my questions. You claim it's an isolated act, but what happens when hundreds of thousands of women all share these experiences and have similar complaints, such as in the USA? Are these just hundreds of thousands of isolated incidents? The term "isolated incident" means alone. One of a kind, at least within the scope of a given context. How exactly does that term apply to sexual abuse or sexism? Does the alleged fact that the incidents are isolated necessarily mean that they don't reflect a problem with our society? By this logic, would littering not be a societal problem since most instances of littering are "isolated" from one another?

How do you rationalize these claims against data from the Gender Equality Index provided by the United Nations Development Programme that suggests that we in the USA are actually quite a bit behind several other countries? It suggests that while we are far from the worst country to be a woman in, we could definitely do significantly better.

I'm going to pause my questions for a moment to tell a personal story.

I grew up surrounded by misogyny. I also grew up in the USA. It certainly didn't start in middle school, but I only know about earlier incidents through my parents so I'll be sticking with an example I actually remember properly. In middle school, I was at the mercy of a group of bullies who, by virtue of outnumbering me and me not having many friends of my own due to social awkwardness, could do no wrong as far as the staff were concerned. They could and did physically assault me, a very tiny girl with the fighting instincts of a possum, before turning around and accusing me of assaulting them when I tried to report them to my teachers or principles. And y'know what? They usually believed the bullies. Not always, but most of the time. They sat me in their office and they called me a liar because it was my word versus two to four dudes, depending on how many of them happened to be around. The prospect of telling a teacher at all became terrifying, because at the end of the day I'd be seeing those boys in the hall and they'd know I told on them. Sometimes they'd follow me, and then when I entered an area without other kids watching by virtue of needing to get to class... I'd wind up a few minutes late to class. I remember a time where I didn't bother telling until a teacher noticed I was in obvious pain and sent me to the office, where the principal insisted that I tell him what happened. I'm not going to discuss the details here, but suffice to say there were several sexual aspects to the bullying.

Would you say that was an isolated incident? Do you think they never took advantage of any other unpopular girls? Personally, I doubt that, because according to gossip I picked up on--one of them, in particular, had already been expelled from another school.

I don't think I was "smarter" than those boys either. I was more of a Bs and Cs student, and I was also very naive and relatively easy to trick and manipulate. I also don't think I will ever fully undo the damage those experiences did to me as a person. I don't believe in "isolated" incidents of sexual abuse. I believe that when it comes to sexual abuse, every incident is part of a pattern of behavior. When those patterns of behavior are directed at women, I call that misogyny. When those patterns of behavior are directed at men, I call that misandry. And when these patterns of behavior are treated as if they're somehow acceptable, whether through a perverted sense of justice or apathy, I call that sexism. I'd really like to believe that it is possible to protect others from this same fate, and that is why I don't agree with the way you've characterized this issue. When you attribute it to human stupidity, you attribute it to something we cannot fix. And that's not something I can accept, especially when other countries have proven by demonstration that we are capable of doing better.

Be careful. Your words can really hurt people.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I don't think SmashBoards is too politically correct. But the news and the internet and the Arrowverse and Captain Marvel, and the LGBT movement drives me crazy. It's gotten to the point where I'm putting my conservatist views in my story. I'm writing about a fairy super hero fighting against the SJWs. That's how bad it is. Even the blacks and the females are hating the attention.

 

[Deleted member]

If we were too "politically correct", we wouldn't be having this discussion so no, there's still a lot to improve in basic human decency.

I don't think SmashBoards is too politically correct. But the news and the internet and the Arrowverse and Captain Marvel, and the LGBT movement drives me crazy. It's gotten to the point where I'm putting my conservatist views in my story. I'm writing about a fairy super hero fighting against the SJWs. That's how bad it is. Even the blacks and the females are hating the attention.

If you're inserting conservative views in your writing then that simply means you believe in those views. If you want to improve your writing, here's a tip: don't write anything for the sole purpose of "owning" someone.

 

[Lore]

I don't think SmashBoards is too politically correct. But the news and the internet and the Arrowverse and Captain Marvel, and the LGBT movement drives me crazy. It's gotten to the point where I'm putting my conservatist views in my story. I'm writing about a fairy super hero fighting against the SJWs. That's how bad it is. Even the blacks and the females are hating the attention.

I'm going to need to see a source on that, not just your subjective experience. If you believe that the internet is too politically correct in a world where /pol/ and /r9k/ are allowed to thrive, you've got another thing coming. I could go on and on about the amount of loosely-moderated sites that aren't even close to "politically correct."

Heck, Smashboards is a prime example. The only views shut down are ones that the community sees as unwelcome. It's a group of people deciding what they want to be around, just like any other community.

Why do you feel the need to insert your views in your story? Have you been personally wronged or shut down somewhere else?


Actually hold on, I tried to remain as unbiased there as possible. Then I reread your last line. Referring to people as "the blacks" and "the females" shows a certain point of view, one that firmly sees them as an "other." Please tell me, exactly, what the news is doing that is SJW. Same with Captain Marvel, if you don't mind. I think it'd help us understand your viewpoint.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, it was Alex and Maggie's breakup on Supergirl over having kids that drove me insane. And I've been torn about my political message in Fairy Girl because I felt like a black racist would make a great villain but I'm seeing how people hate political agendas. But lately, it seems like more people are bashing the left than the right. At least, that is what I'm seeing on YouTube. But it also seems like people can be easily offended by anything, so it seems like a lose-lose situation. Remove the conservative side of my story and it looks too leftist by the premise of a tiny girl with super strength powered by belief taking vengeance on a guy for killing her alien mother with a gun. And I can't change that premise because my previous book had that in it's teaser and I don't want my teasers to lie. In fact, my conservatist views are there to keep the liberal stuff in check. Especially since I have a lot of female-led stories planned, I don't want people to think of me as a far-left-wing person. I'd want to be libertarian. And hey, at least Fairy Girl would have nice black neighbors to cancel out the bad implications of the black villains.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it was Alex and Maggie's breakup on Supergirl over having kids that drove me insane. And I've been torn about my political message in Fairy Girl because I felt like a black racist would make a great villain but I'm seeing how people hate political agendas. But lately, it seems like more people are bashing the left than the right. At least, that is what I'm seeing on YouTube. But it also seems like people can be easily offended by anything, so it seems like a lose-lose situation. Remove the conservative side of my story and it looks too leftist by the premise of a tiny girl with super strength powered by belief taking vengeance on a guy for killing her alien mother with a gun. And I can't change that premise because my previous book had that in it's teaser and I don't want my teasers to lie. In fact, my conservatist views are there to keep the liberal stuff in check. Especially since I have a lot of female-led stories planned, I don't want people to think of me as a far-left-wing person. I'd want to be libertarian. And hey, at least Fairy Girl would have nice black neighbors to cancel out the bad implications of the black villains.

Yeah, it seems your problem isn't anything about "political correctness" and just bad writing with racism and sexism thrown in.

 

[Mic_128]

Remove the conservative side of my story and it looks too leftist by the premise of a tiny girl with super strength powered by belief taking vengeance on a guy for killing her alien mother with a gun

I fail to see how any of that plot is SJW or anything else like that. It seems like a good premise.

 

[Lore]

Sean, it sounds more like you are being a bit fueled by an anxiety that you will offend someone. Or that you have to appeal to "both sides" of the political spectrum.

Most of that stuff is fake, fueled on by bots, trolls, and loud people who sit in their rooms all day. No jobs, nothing productive: just online trolling as a coping mechanism. I'm not kidding when I say that A): people like that will call you far left for a female protagonist in the first place, and B): their opinions absolutely don't matter.

You've got this.

 

[Arle Nadja]

Well, it was Alex and Maggie's breakup on Supergirl over having kids that drove me insane. And I've been torn about my political message in Fairy Girl because I felt like a black racist would make a great villain but I'm seeing how people hate political agendas. But lately, it seems like more people are bashing the left than the right. At least, that is what I'm seeing on YouTube. But it also seems like people can be easily offended by anything, so it seems like a lose-lose situation. Remove the conservative side of my story and it looks too leftist by the premise of a tiny girl with super strength powered by belief taking vengeance on a guy for killing her alien mother with a gun. And I can't change that premise because my previous book had that in it's teaser and I don't want my teasers to lie. In fact, my conservatist views are there to keep the liberal stuff in check. Especially since I have a lot of female-led stories planned, I don't want people to think of me as a far-left-wing person. I'd want to be libertarian. And hey, at least Fairy Girl would have nice black neighbors to cancel out the bad implications of the black villains.

Human rights such as women's rights, LGBT rights and the plight of racial minorities really aren't a liberal or "leftist" thing. The "left" really doesn't own those concepts. There are black people, homosexuals and women that support centrist or even 'right wing' ideas. And human rights are really a centrist issue when you get down to it. It's about right vs wrong, not right vs left.

See, if you hang out in a lot of reactionary circles they will play a clever bit of trickery on you where they convince you that things most of America agrees with (Human Rights, Medicare for All) are actually extreme positions, or part of an imaginary 'far left'. But they're... not. Most people agree on these things because they're the opposite of extreme. They're pretty reasonable ideas.

So if you get caught up in these false narratives and start to see the center as the far left, it really becomes impossible for you to achieve the balance you seem to be chasing. The internet, in particular, has a longstanding reputation dating back to its creation of being a haven for rather... chauvinistic behavior. Communities with extreme stances on Free Speech (Basically unmoderated, save for illegal activity) such as Youtube are very friendly to loud, manipulative, and dishonest people. When a community is not moderated enough to curtail unethical behavior, honest people and ideas don't necessarily rise to the top. It's very dangerous to base your expectations of the leanings of our society as a whole based on whatever's popular on these relatively unmoderated communities.

As an example: A black villain with racist beliefs might be a great villain, ...if you're attempting to write a progressive story for South Africans. And that's only if you can really deconstruct the villain's racism during the story so that you're able to touch upon the nuances of the subject and help explain why they feel the way they do and why it's wrong. But--correct me if I'm wrong--but your intended audience isn't south africans, is it? Here in the English speaking west, we didn't have apartheid. Racism from black people doesn't really represent a huge problem that most people in say America are dealing with. It certainly exists, but not at the scale required for a wide appeal. You added this black villain to appeal to someone, right? And if I had to take a wild guess it's not going to appeal to black people with hard feelings toward white people right? So who would really enjoy that villain a lot? The answer is probably people with hard feelings toward black people.

It's difficult but extremely important to be in touch with your audience and their expectations. It seems like maybe you missed with that one, but you can always learn from that and try again. If you really wanted to appeal to conservatives, perhaps it would be a better idea to introduce a character that embodies certain conservative values, but is portrayed as being able to co-exist with people who don't necessarily share those values.

 

[Klimax]

Well, it was Alex and Maggie's breakup on Supergirl over having kids that drove me insane. And I've been torn about my political message in Fairy Girl because I felt like a black racist would make a great villain but I'm seeing how people hate political agendas. But lately, it seems like more people are bashing the left than the right. At least, that is what I'm seeing on YouTube. But it also seems like people can be easily offended by anything, so it seems like a lose-lose situation. Remove the conservative side of my story and it looks too leftist by the premise of a tiny girl with super strength powered by belief taking vengeance on a guy for killing her alien mother with a gun. And I can't change that premise because my previous book had that in it's teaser and I don't want my teasers to lie. In fact, my conservatist views are there to keep the liberal stuff in check. Especially since I have a lot of female-led stories planned, I don't want people to think of me as a far-left-wing person. I'd want to be libertarian. And hey, at least Fairy Girl would have nice black neighbors to cancel out the bad implications of the black villains.

Dude wtf, write what the **** you want to write, why would you care about some losers ? They're not the ones you're writing for.
Do whatever you want and ignore the extremist morons from the left and the right, they're both ******** as ****.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well I guess you're right. I never had any black person insult me for my skin in my life. I just got woke from the extreme homophobic feelings I got from trying to understand the Alex and Maggie relationship arc in Supergirl. And with all the hate of Captain Marvel for pushing a feminist political agenda, Fairy Girl would be hated too for pushing a different political agenda. Making the hero's family homophobic is even worse when her Dad is a normal human and her Mom is a doll-sized alien, and her great-grandparents on her Dad's side were mortal enemies during World War II (Her great Grandma was a Nazi, so that's going to lead people to call her a feminazi). In fact, it's best not to have gay politics in my story when I'm too homophobic to support them, my homophobic views doesn't make as much sense in the world I created with interspecies couples, there is no important gay character in my story, and the MPAA is less forgiving of gays and I don't want the movie adaptation to get rated R. And when that's my problem, it's best not to make black people out to be these SJW extremists because that's going to offend a lot of people, and they still wouldn't take it well when I make the neighbors Uncle Tom conservatives. I think the best way to write my story is to not preach my political views. Alita: Battle Angel was great because it didn't send any message that was too political. People are boycotting Captain Marvel because of the lead actress acting too sexist and racist on social media. Honestly I hope Alita could beat Captain Marvel at the box office. Especially when Captain Marvel is plagiarizing the very show that pushed me to the alt-right down to being about a strong flying alien blonde woman named Danvers.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I definitely do think that we've gotten to a point where we're too politically correct.

 

[Lore]

Sean, how on earth did a show push you to the alt right, when it's literally just two lesbians? Your logic doesn't make sense here.


Yo Zane that's cool and all, but this is the debate hall. Kinda need more sources or discussion than a one liner without any backup.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Sean, how on earth did a show push you to the alt right, when it's literally just two lesbians? Your logic doesn't make sense here.

I really don't like talking about this. It'll just make me go on a long rant about sex that nobody will understand unless I offend people.

 

[Klimax]

You shouldn't be alt-right mate, you don't look like a ****ty dude, you deserve better than that. It's basically the SJW of the other side of the political spectrum. Both people from the alt right and the SJW are triggered easily. We have obvious examples with SJW, but here's some with people from the far-right.

In France, people got offended because for a representation including Jeanne D'Arc being played by a half black woman. Don't get me wrong, that's a stupid choice and that's an example of what we could call "going full libtard" but being offended for that is just stupid because it doesn't matter at all. + the hate that the poor girl received was even more stupid.

People getting offended by the Gillette's publicity. I mean, that was stupid as ****. But why the hell would you care about a publicity saying stupid **** about how men should act ? It's just dumb.

Guys saying "duh i can't invite a girl to a drink anymore, that's why i don't have a gf". That's bull****. There's only a really REALLY small minority of women who are going to yell "That's micro agression, you violated my safe space by asking me to share a drink with you, i'm gonna call the police... OH MY GOD HE'S ****** ME". Truth is, most of the girls will say yes and be happy of refuse politely. But the angry guys from the alt-right don't know that because, well, they're just a bunch of INCELS most of the time.

Extremist from both sides of the political spectrum are stupid, you should ignore all of them and remember that most of the people that you will encounter are normal (nice if you're nice to them, mean if you're mean to them). The thing is that these people are really loud and have support (SJW have the support of Hollywood and mainstream medias while alt-right has the support of underground medias and the largest part of internet). But these groups are not an accurate representation of the majority, that's why you shouldn't care about them.