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You're like 3 pages too late, stud.
Actually, this is FALSE. In the debug menu is something labeled "Landfall special". This refers to the fat that when you land from a "special" (a B move that disables you), you will have more lag than if you landed without using it.
That's never happened before. Ever.
LOL, what pro was beaten this way? If it were that easy, I'd have beaten pros a long time ago.
This doesn't happen. If you've seen it happen, either A: the "pro" isn't actually that good, and though he can perform advanced techniques, cannot utilize them very well (and is idiotic for not roll punishing), or B: the person who was rolling made up for the fact that he couldn't do anything else by being amazing in every other aspect of the game.
Thank you very much for stating that WD DOES have lag, and 10 frames of lag is a hell of a lot.... How many frames is a dodge rolls lag? -_-" and plus whenever I dodge roll, I don't let go of R immediately because as soon as I finish the roll, my shield is still up (I don't know about the lag sorry) and unless my opponent grabs me, I usually don't get hit.
lol. in your vids you dodged roll more than that, but time will fix that habit. I've learned to almost always replace rolling with wding.
It seems to me that everyone on this forum only cares about wavedashing and shffl. Why do so many people look down on the dodge roll? Simply because it is "noobish" and requires no "true" skill to do it? I think that the dodgeroll is a very effective move and it easily catches a "pro" off guard because they don't expect such a noobish move.
I was wanting to know if anyone can explain to me why I should waste my time learning to wavedash when I can dodge roll 5,000x easier. Excuse me if I'm wrong and call me a noob and wish for my death if you want but... I really don't see why people look down on the dodge roll as if it's not an effective tactic. Plus wavedashing isn't even a real technique.... some loser was just goofing around and found out that you can airdodge into the groud and fly back. I asked people to rate some videos and all they say is "You suck, go die, you don't wavedash!!!" they couldn't look past the fact that wavedashing and shffling isn't the most important part of the game.
Again, sorry if I'm just a noob and I need to quit playing smash brothers all together and just go die under a rock but please explain to me the reason behind this thread before I do all the above. Seeya 'round!
sounds like you think that one can just press buttons and win... maybe smash isn't for you. attacking out of a roll can be pretty slow, and one character always rolls the same distance every time. wave dashing can vary in distance. Rolling = not a good mind game. You can roll back and forth nearly as fast as you can wavedash back and forth.
For the last time? So that means you'll just stop arguing if I dispute your argument? Well, what an agreeable debator!
Uhh. What?
Rolling has its uses, alright. But in many situations, rolling just doesn't cut it due to its set distance and comparatively long lagtime. However, a wavedash is much more versatile. You can use it to edgehog, you can use it as an alternate method of movement, and best of all, you can control its length to suit your needs. Don't bash wavedashing because you're too lazy to learn it and it was discovered by some random player; that has absolutely nothing to do with the current argument.
That never has and never ****ing happen in the history of this ****ing game. It's this kind of blind arrogance that really pisses me off.
Nobody wants you to quit SSBM. It'd be better if you could see both sides of the argument, and then decide for yourself what you want to do.Again, sorry if I'm just a noob and I need to quit playing smash brothers all together and just go die under a rock but please explain to me the reason behind this thread before I do all the above. Seeya 'round!
Actually, I have to disagree with part of this. You give the example that some players are "strong technically but have weak mindgames." That's okay, but then you use Mofo and Zelgadis for your example. Are you really saying that Mofo and Zelgadis have "weak" mindgames? In comparison to who? I can vouch for this, since I've played Zelgadis myself. Granted, you might say that his mindgames (I hate to use such a word for the mental aspect of the game) aren't the best, but they're pretty **** good. You can't label Masashi's playstyle as being good because it's simple, since that's what I'm getting from the gist of your argument. Take Bombsoldier, for example., who has insane amounts of technical skill. It seems that he overwhelms his opponent with just pure technical skill, but he needs a certain degree of mindgames, if you will, to predict the movements of his opponent so he can apply the appropriate tactic.
Wow. Lag from roll > Lag from WD. You can also raise your shield immediately after a wavedash. And trust me, if you overuse rolling against any competent player, you will get grabbed.
Sure, that might work once. But you're assuming that the "pro" will swing at your randomly. Most players will combo into their finishers, which would be the smash in this case, and you'd be screwed because you can roll while you're being combo'd. You are correct that you can use it to avoid a smash, but in most cases it's better to just WD backwards then punish with a SHFFL'd aerial or a grab.
Well, I use the quotes around "strong technically but have weak mindgames" because I'm not using the phrase myself, but because that's a phrase that somebody else might use, to talk about flashy people that don't win. I don't think the phrase is correct, used that way. I think the correct thing to say, is that Zelgadis/Mofo play with an intricate, technical style, and Masashi plays with a simpler style, that works better nonetheless. Sometimes, technical isn't better. Sometimes, you need to fall back upon simple grabs and rolls and dtilts, and in some situations they are unequivically better than shffl's and all that.
it doesn't replace the roll for everything, but it certainly does for escaping a short-ranged attack like a jab or grab, or a mid-ranged attack that takes long to cover its whole possible distance (think raptor boost)
You make it sound like wavedashing and shffling are only situational, and not that useful. You also make it sound like the dodge roll is very useful. This is not the case. Shffl is necessary, it speed up your game times 2!
I'll make this clear in one post.
Look at my name. It's right there, Elitist. And I don't think rolling is noobish. The only things that's noobish is spamming it over and over again or just rolling at the wrong times.
you know what i mean, mr. elitist!
End thread please.. :bigthumbu