Approaching marth

[calmchaos]

Hello,
I've been reading here for a while, and I'm making my first ever post out of sheer frustration.

I play melee at college between classes with a few friends. They play tourneys and they're all pretty good. I've started playing just so i don't sit there and watch. I'm not a n00b but I'm not great.

Anyway....

I have no idea how the he|| to approach my friend's Marth. I can Wavedash into a D-smash pretty well, and i try to come in with the tornado every once in a while. This doesn't work too often anymore because he learned me, and I don't know what to do anymore. I always end up getting shield grabbed or f-smashed.

Any advice for Luigi vs Marth would be appreciated. I just can't get in a good approach hit.

Thanks

 

[nublet06]

does it seem like hes waiting in his sheild for you to attack most of the time? or is he shield grabbing you other ways.

if he is sitting in his shield waiting for you to attack him.......try approaching with wavedash shield grabs.

Wavedash at him > hold down your shield while sliding > grab him once you get there by hitting shield+a.

or if you are 100% sure he will shield grab
wavedash at him > jab his shield> do a down air right after to kick him in the face when he tries to grab your jab. if he shield the dair as well, do a second aerial (sex kick would be good choice) and l cancel it when you land and jab right away.

there is no 100% effective way to apporach marth. and the bottom line is.....marth has stupid range. just try to mix it up with approaching with smash, approaching with grab, and not even approaching at all. you could also try to wavedash towards him (but not actually get close) dash backwards while he does some sort of attack, and then wavedash back in with an attack during his lag.

 

[calmchaos]

Thanks Ill try that.
That WD>jab>SHDair>Sex>Lcancel seems like it would take me some practice to get down. My fingers and brain aren't that fast.

WD>grabbing and WDing in and out are definitely things I haven't thought of trying before.

 

[Snow lizard]

A good friend of mine plays Marth and I usually get owned by him, until I counterpick with Shiek, but I have found the best way to approach is WD to right in his range then roll behind and attack while he's striking ahead. I wouldn't suggest spamming this due to his D-smash which can counter this method but thats how I first beat his Marth with Luigi.

 

[Tharn]

It's a tough match-up, all of us know that. I was at a tournament recently and I'm a Luigi main. not in singles but in doubles, my partner died and I had 2 lives left. There was a Marth with one stock and a fo(ecks) with 2 stocks. So my 2 stock v. Luigi's two toughest matchups(3 stock total) the fo(ecks) let me take on the marth first this was at Dream Land 64. And basically, the trick is to stay on the ground and WD into him, spot doge(side step) when you get close to him so you basically slide behind him, and just as you get behind him Dsmash.

This, puts him in the air and you behind him. Feel free to use any attack you like. I myself prefer a fair to finish him or bair combos because of the priority, and since you're behind him it's a bit eaiser to pull off. But I always spam WD+Spot Doge to get through to a marth.

 

[Tharn]

oh and i won the match ^^ ty lazy fo(ecks) and no team combos

 

[calmchaos]

I did notice that I catch him every once in a while when I spot dodge in front of him. But I am usually trying to Dsmash when I do it, and I'm so surprised that I dodged that he catches me anyway LOL. I have a problem with holding R too long on the WD.

I'll try doing that on purpose now though.

 

[Lixivium]

does it seem like hes waiting in his sheild for you to attack most of the time? or is he shield grabbing you other ways.

if he is sitting in his shield waiting for you to attack him.......try approaching with wavedash shield grabs.

Wavedash at him > hold down your shield while sliding > grab him once you get there by hitting shield+a.

I'm not so sure that's a good idea; Marth's grab outranges Luigi's by a long shot even if Luigi's wavedashing, and his shieldgrab will beat yours every time. Seems to me this would only work if he attacks your shield when you're already inside tipper range...and I doubt that would happen often with good Marths.

or if you are 100% sure he will shield grab
wavedash at him > jab his shield> do a down air right after to kick him in the face when he tries to grab your jab. if he shield the dair as well, do a second aerial (sex kick would be good choice) and l cancel it when you land and jab right away.

That's a good combo, just watch out for Marths that like to crouch cancel everything. I play against one and it is very annoying.

there is no 100% effective way to apporach marth. and the bottom line is.....marth has stupid range. just try to mix it up with approaching with smash, approaching with grab, and not even approaching at all. you could also try to wavedash towards him (but not actually get close) dash backwards while he does some sort of attack, and then wavedash back in with an attack during his lag.

Yep, this is very true, especially if the Marth likes to D-tilt, grab, and SH F-air backwards a lot...there's no safe way of getting in. You basically have to dance in front of him and hope he messes up. It should tell you how bad a matchup this is when shielding a non-tippered F-smash is the BEST scenario you can hope for. Approaching through the air is not an option unless, once again, you shield a Smash or an F-tilt within tipper range.

One thing I didn't see nublet mention is approaching with an F-tilt. It's slightly faster and reaches further than the D-smash; worth a try at higher percentages. Watchout for shieldgrabs and crouch-cancels though.

 

[calmchaos]

Lixivium,
What you described after the third quote has pretty much been my tactic so far. He does CC a lot with that poke, and I usually just wait for him to throw an FSmash too early or make some other mistake and then i get a few hits in before he hits the ground.

But other than that I had no real strategy.

 

[nublet06]

yeah f tilt is **** but its just kind of dangerous. the matchup is going agaisnt you tho so sometimes you gotta play risky to get the win. spacing with f tilts is good if you can catch him without a jump. and it takes REALLY REALLY good spacing with it.....and probly a little bit of mistakes on the marths part to use the f tilt on an aerial marth.

i wrote a guide on marth a long time ago that will drastically help you with noob/intermediate level play. im too lazt to search for it tho. "ROFL tells you how to beat marth"

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Yeah, basically good spacing in the match-up is necessary.

Other that that, if the Marth is relatively dumb and bad at spacing, shield his f-airs and just short hop out of shield and f-air him yourself. If he gets smart/gay, and starts spacing his aerials, wait for the first f-air to hit your shield, then when he trys to fade back with another f-air, wavedash out of shield and hit him with an f-tilt. The f-tilt almost always comes out before his f-air. It's really quite nice.

 

[TheZeroFaReal]

Marth's are my favorite thing to play against with Luigi. First off, Marth's are really predictable when you approach them. If you see any faulty movements your friend might make constantly like repetitiveness through forward smashing, forward tilting, fairs, maybe nairs? You can always wave shield into a grab

Wave Dash + Shield + A At the right time.

If he constantly down tilts you, remember to never go in the air. Marth + Luigi in the air = Marth's game. If you want to approach the Marth down tilting constantly try and wave shield into a forward tilt. Forward tilts are one of the best things to do against a Marth.

If you want to Aerial the Marth don't approach him with aerials. Usually

wave dash - jab - short hop dair
wave dash - jab - grab
wave dash - jab - downsmash - Fair
wave dash - shieldgrab - down throw - bair/fair (depending on DI)
wave dash - forward tilt - edgehog at high percents.

Mix those up and if timed correctly you shouldn't get totally ***** by Marth's. When I started playing I hate Marth's because of the range. After everyone I knew played either a good marth or a decent marth, they have become so easy for me. Good luck

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Uhh...Marth should never really be too easy for Luigi...his sword is just too gay. Kind of like himself. (Get it? Marth is gay?? Good one self!)

But yeah, Luigi's f-tilt is like a big...happy...ball of...happy >_> vs Marth when spaced and used correctly. Or any other character for that matter.

And also, another good way to ledgegaurd Marth's at relatively high percents is to wait for the Marth to just about use his up-B, then wavedash back with a fast-falled ledgegrab (make sure you wait exactly until the moment you think the Marth is going to up-B to do this, because when done correctly, the Marth will either have tried to sweet-spot the ledge, and will have gotten edgehogged because the fast-fall grab is too good and gives you the needed invincibility frames needed to hog the ledge, and the speed to not get hit by the up-B; or the Marth will have tried to go for the top of the ledge, and is now awaiting to be punished because you're already on the ledge waiting for him) and depeding on where the Marth ends after the up-B either

A: If his up-B ends just a little above you, do a ledgehopped d-air, but space it just a little bit so that you do the d-air with your back facing him so that the trajectory goes the opposite direction of the ledge. That, or you'll d-air spike him. So it's kind of a win-win situation. Though most of the time it'll send him flying in the opposite direction.

B: If he lands on the ledge completely in front of you, depending on whether he's in range or not, either ledgehop d-air, or f-air. If he's out of range, try just getting up on the ledge with the neutral get up, and go for a quick d-throw to another aerial.

Oi, went into a bit more detail than planned there. >_<

 

[calmchaos]

Wow, ill... uh... try to remember to try all of that. LOL
The advice on the shield grab worked to day.... and wavedashing through him. I didn't get totally *****, it was only a 1 stock for him LOL, as opposed to the normal 3.

Well... the first couple times anyway until he picked it up. It definitely helps to have a lot of options though.

And thanks again guys for the advice.

 

[Micheloxx]

man, u have to create a play thats its up ur own, or someting no comun because its marth vs luigi, and thers to much difference

 

[mrb1tch3s]

Lots of Ftilt...Another thing...Try to do less and less rolling...People usually roll behind you to get away...but the lag leaves u WAY too open...So...WD amnd Ftilt...and dont roll...that will definitely get you killed...

 

[calmchaos]

Its funny you say that.
Ive just started to practice trying to not roll at all, its kind of tough considering I've done it forever.

Is there ever really a good time to roll? Other than trying to light shield guard a marth on the edge?

 

[C 3]

I'm no nublet06 or Ka Master, but I can tell u from my experiences:

1.) jabs to grabs work well.

2.) make good use of wve dashing shield grabs. Marth's f-smash will push u back when u shield, so WD towards him while holding block, then grab. You take no damage, and u get to deal some.

3.) Suprise him with a couple jabs to Up B's if u can.

I guess that's a start, drawing a mental blank at the moment. I'll add more later.

Good Luck!

 

[mrb1tch3s]

Yeah///its all mind and somewhat depends on who u r fighting...One thing though is that i wouldnt risk the up b too much because that lags u like a B...One of the biggest problems is the god**** chain grab forward...not too much u can do there...

 

[Rollz]

Let him come to you, wavedash in and out on him, if he f-smashes WD back into him and attack?

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Yeah///its all mind and somewhat depends on who u r fighting...One thing though is that i wouldnt risk the up b too much because that lags u like a B...One of the biggest problems is the god**** chain grab forward...not too much u can do there...

Chain grab forward? Umm...I'm assuming you're talking about getting repeatedly forward-thrown? Uhh yeah, just DI away from the throw, and you can get out of it.

 

[Silent Wolf]

only to get dash attacked. agagagagaga
i think

 

[Lixivium]

only to get dash attacked. agagagagaga
i think

That's not such a bad thing; if your percentage is low you can just sex kick or maybe even tornado if you get dash attacked.

I suppose if the Marth could pivot F-smash from the dash it may be a little harder to deal with, but most Marths won't do anything like that.

 

[nublet06]

i think if you DI up and a little bit away....you should be best off. you might get faired a few times, but the average smashers will try to F smash you and miss so you get to down air them in the face.

just make sure you DI those fairs tho cause no1 wants to get ken combod.

 

[Eggm]

You can block f smash an dWD outta shield and grab him usually too.

 

[El HP]

I recommend you to avoid small stages makes marth harder to fight if you fall on a platform prepare to be f-smashed most of the time you will get hit with the tip and that is not good.

 

[Micheloxx]

man now that im thinking good, i think roling isnt a good idea, lol.. ill try to dont roll so much

 

[luigismash294]

fireballs arent that bad people!

marth has no projectile and luigi does. Sure it doesnt go that far, but if the marth likes to camp he will not be there to punish you (there is some lag with luigi's fireballs -ugh) So throw a fireball. Dont expect it to hit him but expect it to at least distract him. For example, I like to throw fireballs and follow up with a tornado every once in a while.

Also, you all know how anyone that knows luigi will space themselves away from the ledge when you're on it (b/c they dont wants to get ledged hopped f-air'd). So when the marth is all spaced out and ready for you to move in after a ledge hop you can either
a) wavedash on, of course.
OR
b) ledge hop fire ball BUT do not move forward- let luigi regrab the ledge after fireballing.

if you keep doing option b he will most likely try to move a bit closer just so he is close enough to f-smash you. this is wen you get on with nothing - that is get on neutrally or watever it called(just tap forward) then you will have invicibility frames to avoid his f-smash and punish him.

not the best stategy but it is another option so thats a plus. try it!

 

[RedYoshi92]

omg I can't stand this matchup.

Avoid getting ftilted and Fsmashed,fireballs work good against marth since he doesn't have a projectiles of his own.when marth gets back to the stage Fsmash or Dair him.Ftilts work well at a low percentage.Try not to pick small stages because luigi can get Ko'd easily,if you do or your opponent does,then try to mindgame him as much as possible.and WD alot in this matchup.

 

[C 3]

Ka, you're jokes are world class lol. In responce to the Marth issue, take a look at the ROFL videos, great references. Or, you could just punch your friend in the face when he chooses Marth and tell him you'll keep punching him until he chooses a different character works for me!! JUST KIDDING!! lol

 

[JesiahTEG]

Your asking how to approach Marth? Without lasers or needles, you can't.

 

[NES n00b]

Your asking how to approach Marth? Without lasers or needles, you can't.

QFT. The best approach for Luigi is the foward tilt. This is your friend. Use for long distance poking because it goes out pretty far and is a pretty descent approach to begin with. Also, you are going to have to do a lot of wavedash/waveland trixies to get anywhere near Marth with Luigi's bad range (compared to Marth).

Edit: Forgot shield wavedash but that might go under wavedash trixies. Might also consider using down b once in a while.

 

[Trig417]

Don't ever become predictable, or your done.

I play against 3 of my best friends who all main marth, and the biggest key to victory is switching it up everytime. I also find jumping marth works well too. Luigi's got a super fast wavedash, so use it to get in his face before he's ready, throw him around, but whatever you don't don't jump into that fsmash or your just gonna get ***** over and over.

By switching it up, i mean wavedash around a little, see what he's gonna do, if it looks like he's gonna take a defensive strat, try and get him to swing a few times before attacking. Then the next time go straight in becuase he'll be expecting you to wavedash out, its all about controlling marths thought processes, use fireballs as a weapon of distraction. Throw him and get him into the air, then kick the crap out of him, but whatever you do DO NOT BECOME PREDICTABLE. Thats probably a good general rule of thumb for smash, but take extra care in a luigi vs. marth matchup.