Apex 2012- What Happened?

[Black Mantis]

No good controller or not, I find it hard to see any kind of serious competition when someone openly admits they split money and forfeit with someone because the two of them thought that the one would make it further. Awful, really upset I learned about that.

They split in Street Fighter they just don't get caught.

 

[Anthon1996]

Marvel and Street Fighter had more views than the main events.

 

[Renegade]

You misunderstand because there are things you don't know. My silver melee controller was stolen or taken by somebody on day 2 at Apex (silver controller with my name marked on it on either front or back), and I sucked as a result in melee (I am still very sad about this). After I lost to wobbles (very bad playing including a forward B off trying to laser) I did not want to play anymore because I was sucking too much, so I forfeitted and split with Hax because he wanted it more and could go further. It was very depressing to play with a huge handicap because people like to steal my things. I understand it is my fault for letting it get stolen, but it really really sucks to have to play with something you aren't confortable with.

Lol, Justin constantly borrows people's controllers all the time and still wins. Elite players find ways to win. Or maybe, you know, have spares.

Admitting to forfeiting and splitting also is a damn tragedy.

Stay Free, M2K.

This guy is a prime example of why Smash is looked down upon.

 

[Theftz22]

Oh yeah and Ice vs Tai marth dittos were awesome.

 

[Black Mantis]

Really, i never saw a tourney that an Ike main(example) won top 10

Apparently you've never heard of San or Ryo?

 

[Dark Hart]

I'm not missing this weekend's NFL playoff games to watch Street Fighter.

Omg firstworldproblems

 

[Dark Hart]

Question

Lol, Justin constantly borrows people's controllers all the time and still wins. Elite players find ways to win. Or maybe, you know, have spares.

Admitting to forfeiting and splitting also is a damn tragedy.

Stay Free, M2K.

This guy is a prime example of why Smash is looked down upon.

Does Justin use a GameCube controller?

 

[Gallo69]

Lol, Justin constantly borrows people's controllers all the time and still wins. Elite players find ways to win. Or maybe, you know, have spares.

Admitting to forfeiting and splitting also is a damn tragedy.

Stay Free, M2K.

This guy is a prime example of why Smash is looked down upon.

I personally look down upon people that steal controllers... Not so much M2K for forfeiting.

 

[Renegade]

Does Justin use a GameCube controller?

Justin would use any controller you put in front of him. He won the first 3 rounds of the Gamestop nationals on IN STORE xbox demo station pads.

There is way more variation in arcade sticks than gamecube controllers, anyway. Even though the ubiquitous nature of Madcatz TE's nowadays are pretty much standardizing the market.

I personally look down upon people that steal controllers... Not so much M2K for forfeiting.

Even though this isn't M2K's first rodeo with "OMG i got my controller stolen, so I threw the match" line of defense.

 

[WindMajor]

I think that the tournament being so behind schedule was the biggest problem with the stream, because there's a huge difference between waiting 3 hours to see everything you were expected to see and waiting 3 hours knowing that you're missing 3 hours of valuable content.

For a Brawl player, it was more than 3 hours of content missed, since at Day 3, we had to sit through Melee too (which was especially worse due to GFs dragging on forever). We saw the majority of doubles and the Top 8 of Brawl singles, but we also missed watching the Top 8 of doubles (except Grand Finals), almost two entire rounds of pools, more than half of the first part of the bracket, and USA vs. The World. The schedule was supposed to accommodate all of that, but since the tourney did not run the way it was planned, a lot of people missed things they wanted to see. It's not so much that people didn't want to watch 3 hours of SF and Marvel, it's that people did not want to miss 3 hours of Brawl/Melee because of SF and Marvel.

It's a fair complaint.

 

[Anthon1996]

I like how the stream kept randomly going down.

 

[Jaxel]

I like how the stream kept randomly going down.

Stream going down was the fault of TwitchTV and would have been unavoidable at the time no matter who was streaming. Yes you can say "I was watching other streams without any issues"; but then I say you clearly have no idea how the internet works. Just because the San Francisco airport works without any issues, doesn't mean at the same exact time the Newark airport is running well. The primary New Jersey server for TwitchTV was flaking out all weekend.

Melee matches on Day 3: 5 hours 4 minutes
Brawl matches on Day 3: 4 hours 3 minutes
SSF4 matches for the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT: 1 hour 20 minutes
Marvel matches for the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT: 1 hour 37 minutes

 

[The_Doug]

Thanks for hosting Apex, Alex. And for keeping the smash community going so many years later. I couldn't attend this time, but I managed to watch a lot of the stream which was awesome; geez technology really spoils kids these days. Please don't let this thread or the ensuing criticism get to you, as I am very much looking forward to another edition of Apex already.

Couple of comments about the Shoryuken community vs Smash community: I personally don't fully understand why there seems to be so much bad blood between both communities, but the fact is this feud has gone back many years. It seemed to come out around late 2003 or early 2004 when Evo talked about Smash possibly being on the circuit, and then MLG eventually put Smash on their circuit. There were several threads and even some RL discussions between a lot of the major hosts/players of Shoryuken back in the day that somehow turned bitter towards our community. Regardless of the history, it really is sad that online chat on streams seems to just escalate and make things worse. Could talk a lot more at length about it but maybe another time.

My silver melee controller was stolen or taken by somebody on day 2 at Apex

That sucks man. I had a limited edition controller stolen from me at TG6 in 2004 in between winners bracket matches, and I let it get to my head. DBR let me borrow a controller, but the theft screwed up my mental game, and I immediately went 0-2 in the next couple of matches.

 

[ZIO]

I walked into this topic expecting the only complaint to be what Grand finals were in melee.

I was disappointed.

I hope you all are satisfied with that travesty. I frequent not just this board, but GFaqs, Something Awful, and 4Chan. Believe me when I say there was a negative outlook on what transpired during those GFs.


Try not to let it happen again, America.

 

[Braggins]

Someone explain to me why a lot of people in the community view splitting and forfeiting as such terrible tragic things.

 

[Pluplue]

Grand finals was the most hype set I watched at that tournament. GUESS YOU JUST HAD TO BE THERE

On a different topic, does anyone know if melee doubles grand finals was recorded?

 

[Gaara♥]

JAXEL you are amazing. nuff said

 

[KnitePhox]

For those interested JaimeHR is playing Isai in ssb64 being streamed live


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/knitephox

 

[PieDisliker]

I still didn't see any explanation on the twitter issue. Chaosmarth's updates were pretty much the only ones I saw. Why wasn't there one big twitter mesh like there usually was? We had no updates on pools except a few people posting in random boards across SWF, and idk what happened for melee. Even when pools aren't being streamed, there's almost always updates on results. I was expecting updates kinda like it's been done at Genesis 1 or MLG. We got almost nothing until bracket. :/

 

[Isatis]

If anything is disappointing me for this tourney it's the sheer fact that the twitter is empty. Even if it doesn't have bracket updates there should be important matches going on and we should have an idea for who's still in and who's out. I'd be pretty okay with everything going on if we at least had twitter updates.

I don't really mind anything else and this tourney's being ran pretty well considering the amount of games at this tourney.

I still didn't see any explanation on the twitter issue. Chaosmarth's updates were pretty much the only ones I saw. Why wasn't there one big twitter mesh like there usually was? We had no updates on pools except a few people posting in random boards across SWF, and idk what happened for melee. Even when pools aren't being streamed, there's almost always updates on results. I was expecting updates kinda like it's been done at Genesis 1 or MLG. We got almost nothing until bracket. :/

The tio we were given ran into a huge bug in that if we tried to report any matches, it wouldn't enter it in. Period.

We used the Apex 2010 tio which everytime you tried to set it up for Twitter, it crashed. But it at least let us report who the winner was and do the brackets.

Stream going down was the fault of TwitchTV and would have been unavoidable at the time no matter who was streaming. Yes you can say "I was watching other streams without any issues"; but then I say you clearly have no idea how the internet works. Just because the San Francisco airport works without any issues, doesn't mean at the same exact time the Newark airport is running well. The primary New Jersey server for TwitchTV was flaking out all weekend.

+1 to this.

While we watched the "frame drop" counter go rapidly up, we were watching speedtest.net report something like 70Mbps download/94Mbps upload at the exact same time. It wasn't us and it wasn't Rutgers University either.

 

[Dirtydeeds]

For the record, I never particularly liked to watch traditional fighters but I watched both Marvel and SSF4 on Sunday and it was reasonably entertaining to watch. I also didn't at all find it obtrusive to the stream and I actually thought it was kind of refreshing to watch something new. I totally agree with the decision to put the FGC games on the 'smash' stream because it did exactly what they wanted and gave people some exposure.

 

[Kinzer]

Marvel and Street Fighter had more views than the main events.

*Ignores the people that were idle/waiting for smash to come back up.*

... But I'm not the first person to cover this.

 

[Tesh]

Actually Kinzer, as someone that spent a good chunk of time watching the stream I can tell you that regardless of idle waiting for Smash, the traditional fighters had overwhelmingly more viewers than Smash. They went from 8500 to as high as 9500 (I enjoyed the commentary and so some extent the games). Day 1 Melee had as many as 6000 viewers, but personally I attribute that to alot of confused people that thought traditional fighters would be on that stream on that day. Day 2 on Brawl had like 4000-5500 (but as low as 3500, probably due to not being on twitch front page like melee day was). Day 3 Smash had 6000+ until late at night, probably because people wanted to see regular fighters.

 

[WindMajor]

You could interpret SF's 9000 viewers as a whole bunch of Smashers waiting for Melee and Brawl because once SF and MvC ended, the view count only dropped 2000, and stayed more or less around 6,000 and 7,000 during the duration of Smash.


Also, I agree that Jaxel did a ****ing fantastic job. Deserves a lot of respect imo.

 

[Anthon1996]

Lets not forget how when the stream just randomly had those brain farts for no reason, the viewers dropped so much, and on the really epic matches like those IC dittos.

 

[KevinM]

Everytime Chibo yells at someone for splittling I just have to laugh knowing the events that transpired a year or two back as per my signature..

stay free Chibo.

As for how it was run

Friday-Saturday felt like a crapshoot Melee was awfully run we did

Doubles two hours after it was supposed to happen

Rushed R1 pools

Took less then a halfhour to seed R2 Pools

leaving hella imbalanced pools

seriously

G$, SilentSwag, Shizwiz and Zhu in the same pool

When you have MacD with IC's and Ambix a guy who BARELY made it out of his top 4 pool at RoM4 in the same round ouf pools.

MacD himself said his pool was free as hell and yet a lot of good players did not make it out because we were thrown under the bus in pools that just didn't seem looked at.


The culmination of everything on Sunday however seemed well run and I have to congratulate Alex for having a hype top 8 after top 8 all day sunday...

really my only problem with Sat-Sun was that at the venue there was probably 6-8 dedicated Melee set-ups for friendlies, moneymatches with over 300 melee players.

That and DMBrandon but people have called him out enough so whatever.

 

[RATED]

I liked the stream, good job Jaxel. If I could give some pointers was that Melee had a Lot of coverage in my opinion like for example Brawl players didnt get to watch pools(at least Round 2 would have been good).

I watched SF (I play it and I like it)

Marvel started : I went to cook since I kinda dislike that game so it gave me time to cook and eat while watching Smash.(delicious Rice and beans with meat lol)

The quality was too good. The chat could use some help (banning people, Twink I am looking at you! monster ) Still, easy solution Full Scream it or place something in the top of it so you don't have to read it. So I was good.

Brawl singles top 8 was sick! Those Nairo vs Otori WF were too good. ( I actually tend to dislike MK dittos but those were epic)

Little complain was that Melee took too much time of what could have been Brawl. It could have been even.

Also idk but I would prefer getting more Stream about Singles than Doubles.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok i disagree with much of what was said in the op, but i have read most of page two and the op complaints seem to be getting addressed. so let me just ay this since i am not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet.

Prog was not serious when he was trash talking the US. It was a joke were one commentator would be pro US and the other would be pro world. its odd to see people didnt understand this. I didnt hear the commentating myself since i was apex so maybe it just seemed really serious idk.

 

[Wave-Guiding Hero]

Prog was not serious when he was trash talking the US. It was a joke were one commentator would be pro US and the other would be pro world. its odd to see people didnt understand this. I didnt hear the commentating myself since i was apex so maybe it just seemed really serious idk.

I don't think the problem was whether he was serious or not, the problem was that he kept on doing it WELL after it stopped being funny and it got really old.

Regardless, despite the ridiculously pointless and anticlimactic Isai/CJ fight as well as the disorganization of the first two days, I thought the tournament was okay. The Melee tournament was strangely boring (and that's not even taking into account Hungrybore vs. Armadull GFs) but the Brawl top 8 was awesome so it all worked out for me.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I don't think the problem was whether he was serious or not, the problem was that he kept on doing it WELL after it stopped being funny and it got really old.

Regardless, despite the ridiculously pointless and anticlimactic Isai/CJ fight as well as the disorganization of the first two days, I thought the tournament was okay. The Melee tournament was strangely boring (and that's not even taking into account Hungrybore vs. Armadull GFs) but the Brawl top 8 was awesome so it all worked out for me.

I cant believe anyone could find anything besides maybe the shroomed v hbox and armada v hbox matches boring in melee's top 8. but you r welcomed to your opinion (even if they r wrong )

 

[WindMajor]

The chat could use some help (banning people, Twink I am looking at you! monster )

Just for the record, I was a mod, but I was mostly watching the stream from my phone, which doesn't have a chat option. Moderating over the phone would be stupid anyways, lol, so yeah.

 

[Wave-Guiding Hero]

I cant believe anyone could find anything besides maybe the shroomed v hbox and armada v hbox matches boring in melee's top 8. but you r welcomed to your opinion (even if they r wrong )

I don't really know why I found them boring either. I didn't really get hyped at all during that tournament until Brawl. Maybe it was because of the Street Fighter and Marvel scrubs desperately trolling the chat, lol (I did enjoy trolling them back, though)

I have it to give it to Apex though, managing to get me hyped after sitting through 9 matches of Ylink/Jiggs was no small feat

 

[Max?]

Everytime Chibo yells at someone for splittling I just have to laugh knowing the events that transpired a year or two back as per my signature..

stay free Chibo.

As for how it was run

Friday-Saturday felt like a crapshoot Melee was awfully run we did

Doubles two hours after it was supposed to happen

Rushed R1 pools

Took less then a halfhour to seed R2 Pools

leaving hella imbalanced pools

seriously

G$, SilentSwag, Shizwiz and Zhu in the same pool

When you have MacD with IC's and Ambix a guy who BARELY made it out of his top 4 pool at RoM4 in the same round ouf pools.

MacD himself said his pool was free as hell and yet a lot of good players did not make it out because we were thrown under the bus in pools that just didn't seem looked at.


The culmination of everything on Sunday however seemed well run and I have to congratulate Alex for having a hype top 8 after top 8 all day sunday...

really my only problem with Sat-Sun was that at the venue there was probably 6-8 dedicated Melee set-ups for friendlies, moneymatches with over 300 melee players.

That and DMBrandon but people have called him out enough so whatever.

Pretty much hit it on the head.

Still confused as to why my first round pool had Armada in it

 

[Deleted member]

build a bridge and get over yourself. you weren't at this event so why do you care? go brush your hair or do some **** relevant to you. busybody.

 

[Lovage]

tourny was pretty bad overall but great people/experiences still made it worth the plane ticket

sheridan and fullmetal ran a 320 person melee tournament by themselves btw, i put 0 blame on their shoulders

 

[Turazrok]

My only problem was while trying to enjoy the marvel stream I had to listen to two jabronis talk about how bad smash was consistently

Like not even commentating on the matches.

 

[N64]

Pre-edit: Most of this was directed at OP and random people I've seen most similar opinions, and I admit I wrote it before really reading much of the rest of the thread. Having gone through it now, I'm actually pretty pleased with responses from people to it. I had a blast watching the Apex stream, wish I coulda gone, but major props to everyone involved. I have my gripes with tournaments running behind schedule consistently, but I know it's not from a lack of effort and will by people to make it a success.

It perplexes me why anyone in the smash community wouldn't want to be closer to the fighting game community. Do you not want to be respected as a fighting game? Do you not want interest and growth in your own game? Must someone forsake all other gaming to enjoy smash? Maybe I'm just hearing the loudest people instead of the general consensus, but it sure sounds like a lot of you want this to be a fraternity that pushes out anyone who doesn't share your opinions. There were 6000+ people watching melee and brawl finals on the apex stream. For a smash tournament, that's a huge number. Part of it was from the inclusion of traditional fighters in the tournament, as even if they were there trolling up the chat with anti-smash comments, they were watching smash.

Apex did have its share of issues, from a stream viewer's standpoint, but I don't see how trying to get closer with the traditional fighting game community was one of them. How do you expect smash to survive without a constant influx of new blood? And what better source of new blood than people who already enjoy fighting games? Maybe there are legitimate answers to these questions I don't recognize.

As for the stream, jerks are going to be jerks, it's part of the internet. You get 6000+ people watching a stream, allow them to name themselves whatever they want, and you're bound to have a good number of trolls. This isn't helpful to those actually interested in what's going on on stream, I agree, but I doubt active modding would have been able to prevent much of it in a meaningful way. Banning people for anti-smash comments just makes us look like elitist pricks that can't take some jabs at our game.

With the commentary, I thought it was decent overall, but indeed lacking at points. I think that's moreso an issue with just not having many quality commentators (that I know of) for smash. I thought it was sufficient, but i can understand some criticism there.

That the tournament ran late is nothing particularly new as far as smash tournaments go. It's a trend that I really wish would stop though, and here I do agree with you. Not knocking the TOs too much, I know Alex Strife and Co. put a ton of work into preparing for this, and **** happens, but when every other major tournament is delayed, and ends up either finishing late, at another location, or forcing them to cut events, ...I don't know. Things can go wrong, but you have to expect things to go wrong and prepare for it. I don't want to say too much as I've done very little in the way of TOing and don't want to be a hypocrit, but the frequency that tournaments get delayed unsettles me.

The Isai crews thing was kinda silly, but I can understand it. The potentiality of it was hype. I was hype. If the TOs jumped in and stopped it before it could start, I'm sure a number of people would have been disappointed. I don't know if it was handled as smoothly as it could have been, but I'm not aware of it holding up anything (correct me if I'm wrong). Was just a fun little moment.

Finally, on the Melee and Brawl happening at the same time, I'm a little unclear on the point your making. If your understanding is that M2K forfeited the remainder of his Melee matches because the Brawl schedule physically conflicted with his Melee matches (so that he would have to quit one in order to complete his matches in the other), then that's not correct. After his loss to Wobbles he chose to drop the remainder of Melee so he could focus completely on Brawl and try to make money in that game. If we both understand this and you're implying that both games shouldn't be played at the same time because it's difficult to switch between the two, then I still disagree. I know you don't hold other fighting games in high regard, but at their tournaments it's common to have multiple game brackets going on simultaneously. Why? It makes tournament sense. Once TVs free up in one, start up another. This allows TVs to always be in use for progressing the tournament and making sure it doesn't run past schedule. If you enter multiple events, you do so with the understanding that this will occur.

That about sums up how I feel about Apex, and the current smash community in general. I want Melee and Brawl and Street Fighter and Marvel and everyone to get along. Cross game trashtalk is going to happen, and it's healthy at times, but vehement avoidance of eachother's communities is frankly absurd. Lets have awesome tournaments of awesome games.

 

[CT Chia]

Everytime Chibo yells at someone for splittling I just have to laugh knowing the events that transpired a year or two back as per my signature..

stay free Chibo.

That's the joke <_<

You really thought I was trying to get to Japanese players banned? I said it because they were talking to each other in Japanese before the final match.

 

[KevinM]

It was hardly on equal terms. FGC had like 1/3 of a room when Smash tournament matches alone has an entire room, and that's not counting the friendly setups that were 1/4 the space in the other room.

The FGC took up the main stream for like 3 hours on the early afternoon hours. That's hardly anything at all. Before they started there was Smash, and after they ended there was Smash for like another 10 hours on just that one day alone.

--

No good controller or not, I find it hard to see any kind of serious competition when someone openly admits they split money and forfeit with someone because the two of them thought that the one would make it further. Awful, really upset I learned about that.

Talking about this, not you joking around with something I don't care about >_>.

 

[CT Chia]

My mistake, was mixed up with something else.

That statement still stands though,

so I forfeitted and split with Hax because he wanted it more and could go further.

^ that is just not right