Anyone ever seen this before?

[S_B]

In case anyone is unclear on this, LM is countering Bowser's Usmash, which has an "autoguard" on it where it simply ignores (and subsequently plows through) a single hit while Bowser is rising in the animation.

I've Usmashed through many counters like this in the past (including LMs) and it never causes the opponent to freeze there for almost a full second with the hitbox of the counter still active, as we can see Falcon run over, shield, and the counter hits his shield.

What I suspect is at work here is that the KO punch should've rightfully been charged when Mac countered. However, Mac has to deal or receive damage in order for the meter to fill and neither one happened here. It appears as though the game's logic choked for a moment on a very rare situation.

But there's no question that this is NOT the norm, because Bowser would never be able to fsmash Mac after autoguarding his counter under normal circumstances.

 

[Splebel]

Actually Little Mac's KO Meter did rise. His meter rises when clanking as well. I think what happened was Little Mac went into extreme hitlag while you didn't so it looked weird.

 

[S_B]

Actually Little Mac's KO Meter did rise. His meter rises when clanking as well. I think what happened was Little Mac went into extreme hitlag while you didn't so it looked weird.

But that's definitely not normal, though.

When Bowser normally shellguards Mac's counter, Mac immediately shoots through him and goes flying off to the side.

 

[Splebel]

The other theory is this was online and the game lagged and got desynced or something but I don't know if that is the case. Or maybe it was something that only happens in a frame perfect situation like Roy insta-killing Jigglypuff with Up-B.

 

[Gavi1195]

But that's definitely not normal, though.

When Bowser normally shellguards Mac's counter, Mac immediately shoots through him and goes flying off to the side.

Assuming that Mac didn't touch Bowser, you would be correct. However, you can see in the video that Mac's Counter collided with one of Bowser's Up-smash hitboxes. Since Bowser's attack is very powerful, it's stunned Mac for a long period of time. So this is a "Clash" scenario we are seeing here.

 

[S_B]

The other theory is this was online and the game lagged and got desynced or something but I don't know if that is the case. Or maybe it was something that only happens in a frame perfect situation like Roy insta-killing Jigglypuff with Up-B.

It was offline (in a tourney, actually).

Also, here's some counter testing with full rage on both characters:

I don't think it has anything to do with the KO meter after all, but if you watch, even fully-charged Usmashes don't make Mac freeze in place anywhere near as long as this one did...

I appreciate any input or theories because I start to get the feeling that there's something else going on beneath the surface, here.

 

[Gavi1195]

It was offline (in a tourney, actually).

Also, here's some counter testing with full rage on both characters:

I don't think it has anything to do with the KO meter after all, but if you watch, even fully-charged Usmashes don't make Mac freeze in place anywhere near as long as this one did...

I appreciate any input or theories because I start to get the feeling that there's something else going on beneath the surface, here.

There it is!!! From 0:14-0:16. You can see Mac freeezing when he collides with Bowser! Noticeably not stunned for as long though, so this would mean that in the original, Mac collided with a stronger hitbox while in this new retesting vid, he collided with a weaker hitbox, reducing the time which Mac spent frozen.

 

[Splebel]

There it is!!! From 0:14-0:16. You can see Mac freeezing when he collides with Bowser! Noticibly not stunned for as long though, so this would mean that in the original, Mac collided with a stronger hitbox while in this new resting vid, he collided with a weaker hitbox, reducing the time which Mac spent frozen.

Yeah this and I think Falcon's Perfect Shielding might've extended it even more.

 

[S_B]

Yeah this and I think Falcon's Perfect Shielding might've extended it even more.

I think this is actually what happened.

And what's weirder is that Mac can actually wind up having his counter animation pause at different points during the animation. It's not consistent between them.

It takes ~80 frames for his counter to finish normally and I think Falcon's shield added to that. It was just very strange that he froze for as long as he did in that pose...

 

[PHYTO-1]

when a move clanks, the amount of hitstun is transferred into hitlag. mac countering a bowser usmash will result in massive hitstun- therefore he is in massive hitlag. then perfect shielding also causes that to extend a little more.

theres a cool video where Ness uses his bat to try and reflect a villager tree which has been reflected by fox and Ness is just frozen in hitlag for 4 seconds when it clanks.


edit: found it. its villagers bowling ball

 

[6FinalFlame6]

I was thinking that since Little Mac is invincible during the hitbox frames of his counter, he was not able to be taken out of the hit animation, but at the same time, he clashed with the up-smash causing him to do that thing where youre in clash-delay, but due to his invincibility he just stood still instead of doing the delay animation. Idk, just something i thought of. This is pretty funny looking either way.