I have been very interested in competitive melee recently and I feel like my best character is falcon. I've been getting good at using him combos, and I think that is a good start, but I have tough times applying them in battle, and am not very good at playing patiently. Typically when I play I think I am too offensive which allows my opponents to punish me with ease. So are there any good tips/techniques for getting good with Falcon?
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Any good tips on getting good at C. Falcon?
- Thread starter GOLDENMOP
- Start date
Learn L-cancelling AND immediately acting out of an L-cancel for:
-Aerial on nothing
-Aerial on hit
-Aerial on shield
-Rinse and repeat for any and every aerial timing you can think of
Learn Dash-dancing and mixing up dash lengths comfortably
Once you master those to a fine point, try implementing wavedashes, pivots, and other things I guess.
Also, play more. Play a lot, lot more. Your questions are super vague atm and I can only hazard that means you don't know what to work on. That either means you're the absolute best player forever, or you're super new and haven't played much, so you don't really know what you can improve/work on. Play more, hopefully get bodied by someone better than you, and then you will come back with questions that will actually help you.
-Aerial on nothing
-Aerial on hit
-Aerial on shield
-Rinse and repeat for any and every aerial timing you can think of
Learn Dash-dancing and mixing up dash lengths comfortably
Once you master those to a fine point, try implementing wavedashes, pivots, and other things I guess.
Also, play more. Play a lot, lot more. Your questions are super vague atm and I can only hazard that means you don't know what to work on. That either means you're the absolute best player forever, or you're super new and haven't played much, so you don't really know what you can improve/work on. Play more, hopefully get bodied by someone better than you, and then you will come back with questions that will actually help you.
Okay I guess my questions were really broad and kind of misleading, sorry about that
I know about L cancels, wavedashes, dashdances, alot of that, what I should have titled this thread is how do I approach my opponent. Whenever I play I tend to play way too offenseivley, and my combos are good, but I can never implement them in battle. Also I'm not new to smash, just new to competitive smash. I am going to try implementing wavedashes/dashdances/wavelands more often though, because I know about those, I just don't use them very often. (Don't know why)
If my post is still to broad, then I'm very sorry, but I can't word this any better.
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It's not about knowing the techniques, it's about doing them WELL. Think about L-cancelling, cancel half your aerial lag by pressing L/R/Z with the right timing. But what timing? The timing can change depending on your fast-fall speed, your aerial spacing, whether you hit your opponent or hit their shield or just hit empty air. Practicing good L-cancelling means being aware of all of this and also acting as fast as you can out of your L-cancel (otherwise, they'd be no point). Good L-cancelling can be the difference between amazing shield pressure and getting shield-grabbed like a moron.
Dash-dances = not implementing more, but implementing them well. Vary dash-dance lengths so you can keep a good distance to keep some pressure on your opponent, but still have enough distance to bait them in and weave back in for a hit/grab. You can dash back and forth all you want, but if you're not cognizant of the reasons for why you're dash-dancing or for the subtle spacings of it, your dash-dances will be pretty much useless.
If you have good combos but they aren't working against people, they're not good combos. Or you are currently not good at converting into meaty combos off good neutral hits. Nair -> grab, knee -> grab, experiment, because if you can't land the combos you practice, they're useless.
If you think you're being too offensive, then stop being offensive lol. Don't approach, bait them in, punish their approach. Good offense is not about running in and getting wailed on, it's about mixing it up so your opponent can't read your approach and spacing yourself so that your approach won't get easily punished. This means not shffling nair straight into a dash-dance grab (if you get hit by this, it means you need to space closer and overshoot your aerial more to run through the dash-dance).
Also, new to competitive smash is about as good as new to smash to me. Tons of players new to the community have played and enjoyed smash casually for many years. That doesn't mean that they don't get absolutely whomped when they play someone who's been in the competitive scene for even just a year or two. Just wanted to say from someone who knows, don't expect your familiarity with the series outside of the competitive scene to help you at all, because it really won't.
Dash-dances = not implementing more, but implementing them well. Vary dash-dance lengths so you can keep a good distance to keep some pressure on your opponent, but still have enough distance to bait them in and weave back in for a hit/grab. You can dash back and forth all you want, but if you're not cognizant of the reasons for why you're dash-dancing or for the subtle spacings of it, your dash-dances will be pretty much useless.
If you have good combos but they aren't working against people, they're not good combos. Or you are currently not good at converting into meaty combos off good neutral hits. Nair -> grab, knee -> grab, experiment, because if you can't land the combos you practice, they're useless.
If you think you're being too offensive, then stop being offensive lol. Don't approach, bait them in, punish their approach. Good offense is not about running in and getting wailed on, it's about mixing it up so your opponent can't read your approach and spacing yourself so that your approach won't get easily punished. This means not shffling nair straight into a dash-dance grab (if you get hit by this, it means you need to space closer and overshoot your aerial more to run through the dash-dance).
Also, new to competitive smash is about as good as new to smash to me. Tons of players new to the community have played and enjoyed smash casually for many years. That doesn't mean that they don't get absolutely whomped when they play someone who's been in the competitive scene for even just a year or two. Just wanted to say from someone who knows, don't expect your familiarity with the series outside of the competitive scene to help you at all, because it really won't.
Okay thanks for the tips (Also now that I think about it I've known and been paying attention to competitive smash for a while, I just never understood the fundamentals until I watched the Smash Documentary, I've been keeping track of it for a while, and I've been playing the competitive format for a while as well, I just never understood how deep it was for a while)
As far as my combos I have been experimenting with them quite a bit actually. Depending on the character I can do pretty decent ones but I'm still working on them, the characters that I will admit I suck at combos on are fox and falco, mainly because their fast fall speeds throw me off compared to all the other characters, but I'll keep working on those two. Also usually if I can get a grab I can pull off a good combo, but it usually a matter of how I can get the grab. (Dair to grab works pretty well for me)
L canceling at least for me is easy, right when I learned about it I practiced it for a few weeks until I mastered it. I think I've got that one down. I also can wave dash with ease and I can technically dash dance but I'll have to work on varying how far I go in one direction before I switch to the next. Pivoting also Is kind of tough to me so I'll definetly have to work on that.
As far as playing to offensively goes, I think it is just stupid natural Instict for me to try and rush in and beat up (or at least try to) my opponent. Heck when I play other games that is what happens and I'll admit it's pretty stupid of me. I think if I play against other people and get wrecked, then it will prove that I need to change my play style, but hopefully it won't come to that and I can just adjust with enough practice.
Well thanks for the tips, I really appreciate trying to help me out!
KingKirb
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 250
- Practice, practice, practice
- Patience in-game. Falcon has a bad neutral game compared to the top tiers. you have to punish their mistakes most of the time, so be patient and try to let them come to you.
- SHFFL nairs. get this down perfectly
- Tech chasing
I'd also recommend finding people in your area. I am lucky to live close to some really gifted players. Most people will let you play with them if you ask
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Thanks for the tips, I have been getting better at playing patiently, but I still need to work a little more on that. SHFFLs have become easy for me mainly because ever since I learned about L cancels I mastered it instantly. I still might want to practice combos with SHFFL Nairs.
- Practice, practice, practice
- Patience in-game. Falcon has a bad neutral game compared to the top tiers. you have to punish their mistakes most of the time, so be patient and try to let them come to you.
- SHFFL nairs. get this down perfectly
- Tech chasing
I'd also recommend finding people in your area. I am lucky to live close to some really gifted players. Most people will let you play with them if you ask
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KingKirb
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 250
Good
I guess one last piece of advice is to learn what combos into knee and when. For example, even moves like downtilt can combo on some characters at ~100%. You can learn this by watching falcon players or experimenting yourself.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Don't get hit, don't **** up, don't be an SD Machine.
maelstrom218
Smash Lord
Aside from what everyone else said, you'll want to learn how to punish properly with techchasing.
A lot of the damage that Falcon dishes out doesn't come out from n-air juggles anymore (since everyone and their mom knows how to DI/SDI out of those), it's a lot more about converting hits off of d-throws.
Watch vids of upper-tier Falcons like S2J and Hax, and you'll see that against really good spacies, they're essentially biding their time until they pull off a grab. Once they get the grab and d-throw, the magic starts happening. You can do simple stuff at first like d-throw to raptor boost, which is a very easy setup generally, and can normally be done on reaction.
After that, it's about techchasing d-throws into regrabs, or stomps (into knee), or punishing unteched d-throws with a fast shffl'd u-air (into knee), or u-throwing onto platforms and techchasing them on there with a full jumped d-air or jump cancelled with a airdodge/wavedash thing into regrab (into whatever).
Techchasing/punishing is probably the hardest thing to learn with Falcon, but it's the most important facet of his play. But you probably shouldn't focus on this until you get everything else basic down.
A lot of the damage that Falcon dishes out doesn't come out from n-air juggles anymore (since everyone and their mom knows how to DI/SDI out of those), it's a lot more about converting hits off of d-throws.
Watch vids of upper-tier Falcons like S2J and Hax, and you'll see that against really good spacies, they're essentially biding their time until they pull off a grab. Once they get the grab and d-throw, the magic starts happening. You can do simple stuff at first like d-throw to raptor boost, which is a very easy setup generally, and can normally be done on reaction.
After that, it's about techchasing d-throws into regrabs, or stomps (into knee), or punishing unteched d-throws with a fast shffl'd u-air (into knee), or u-throwing onto platforms and techchasing them on there with a full jumped d-air or jump cancelled with a airdodge/wavedash thing into regrab (into whatever).
Techchasing/punishing is probably the hardest thing to learn with Falcon, but it's the most important facet of his play. But you probably shouldn't focus on this until you get everything else basic down.
Phyanketto
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2014
- Messages
- 29
Quick question, since I don't want to make my own thread... When is it appropriate to Gentleman? It's not generally used after a jab reset, right? So when do I do it? As shield pressure?
KingKirb
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
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A very wise Falcon main once told me that the gentleman is like Falcon's shine. I'm starting to understand what he meant.
Personally, I throw it out when I need something quick and effective. It works well on shield pressure and also as a set up for combos. Use it often.
Phyanketto
Smash Cadet
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- Jul 6, 2014
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I don't mean to sound flippant... But can it be used as a ledgeguarding tool like a shine?
maelstrom218
Smash Lord
The hitbox doesn't really extend below the stage, so sweetspotting would nullify that. It'd also be hard to time, sort of. IIRC, u-tilt and d-air extend below the stage, although d-air can be meteor cancelled. Honestly, there's generally better on-stage edgeguarding options--u-tilt, b-air, down angled f-tilt would probably be the easiest and most straightforward. Although as Falcon, you're probably better off going off-stage for edgeguards with u-airs/reverse u-airs Ganon-style or soft-hit fastfalled b-airs or something.
Edit: And knees, of course. Always knees.
Edit: And knees, of course. Always knees.
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Gentleman is a fantastic shield pressure mixup. Mix up doing a low aerial on their shield -> dash away and low aerial on shield -> gentleman. The first mixup is safer, but you won't get much out of it, especially if they WD or jump OOS immediately. But gentleman catches that. And by itself, it's pretty confusing shield pressure, cuz people want to grab after the 1st or 2nd jab and just get gentleman'd.
It's good for comboing. I don't know how to exactly explain when to use it for combos, but there have been situations where I think nothing will combo and then gentleman somehow nets me a free knee. You can also use it in weird scenarios like after a uthrow on fast fallers to try to trick tech-timings/escapes.
@edgeguarding, I think dair hits further below the stage than utilt if you time it right. It's also easier to time. It can be meteor-cancelled/utilt though, but it also almost always puts people below the stage, which is always a good place to keep your opponents lol. If they walltechjump the dair at the ledge though, you gotta be ready for the recovery option.
Off-stage edgeguards nab kills, you just gotta be cognizant of when to go for them and don't make it too obvious for the person recovering.
It's good for comboing. I don't know how to exactly explain when to use it for combos, but there have been situations where I think nothing will combo and then gentleman somehow nets me a free knee. You can also use it in weird scenarios like after a uthrow on fast fallers to try to trick tech-timings/escapes.
@edgeguarding, I think dair hits further below the stage than utilt if you time it right. It's also easier to time. It can be meteor-cancelled/utilt though, but it also almost always puts people below the stage, which is always a good place to keep your opponents lol. If they walltechjump the dair at the ledge though, you gotta be ready for the recovery option.
Off-stage edgeguards nab kills, you just gotta be cognizant of when to go for them and don't make it too obvious for the person recovering.
kyaputenfarukon07
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 267
Dashing away out of gentleman is sometimes good too once you have condition them to stay in shield with really weird timings and then proceed to watch their actions ---> counter that action into punishment.
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Citizen Snips
Smash Journeyman
"My combos are good but I can't implement them in a match" means that you aren't practicing correctly. You're likely practicing the same L-cancel timings over and over again, which is fine against a level 1 CPU that lets you approach however you want. It doesn't work so great against a Falcon that's shutting you down with lasers. You need to be able to open up with an aerial in every situation without missing a fast fall or l-cancel. Practice with that in mind. Force yourself to do unconventional timings and see if you really are as consistent as you think you are.
As for wavedashes and dash dances (Especially DDs) you HAVE to get those down. Tech skill comes first. Until you feel like everything you want to happen happens in a match against real players, you should focus entirely on tech skill. It's hard with Falcon, but it's of the utmost importance. Try and get some recordings of you practicing or in matches and post them here and I can tell you if you need to work on something.