Another Pro Wavedashing Thread (It's a good ones)

[red stone]

the real holy grail for competitive players is not exploiting the game but exploiting their opponent. at higher levels, everyone and their grandparents can do all advanced techs and do them well. it's not even about technical skill anymore. it's about adapting which is harder than it sounds.

 

[thesage]

Yes it's really L-canceling, but if WD'ing was taken out then those techniques would replace them. They were discovered and in use before WD'ing. These techs are waaaaay harder to do. I've been playing competitively for almost a year now and I still cannot do it in a match. I hardly ever see anyone do it. Pivoting will be in Brawl for sure cause of the way DD'ing works. DD'ing was in ssb as well so I'm sure something similar was in that game too...

Let me put it this way, WD'ing is an exploitation of the physics that makes it easier to fake out people, do mindgames, and manuever. Take it out and competitive players would use pivoting, which does everything except manuvering. This would give Marth a boost in power and take away some of Luigi's power.

Trust me WD is really easy to learn to do. It's hard to learn how to implement it in a match. Pivoting is both harder to learn AND implement in battle, with less than astounding results. Without WD'ing the top people will still be the top and the bottom is the bottom.

Edit@RedStone: Yes you're right. Now that everyone in the competitive scene has decent tech skill that's essentially what the game has boiled down too.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Again, I don't see what the problem is when Nintendo already said they like the metagame, the know wavedashing exist, they like what pros do with it, and they left it in the PAL version. Seriously, come on...

 

[Sprigginz_Caldo]

I'm sure it would be in the game. Air dodging diagonally to the ground would have to result in SOME sort of sliding. I mean, just look at the sliding crates. There is no 100% traction, and with air dodging in different directions confirmed, I don't see why it wouldn't return.

Wavedashing adds a lot more depth into the game, and a person who cannot perform this maneuver is still able to stand up to a person who can. It is not a God mode. Plus, I sorta wonder why people say that wavedashing is a cheap, unfair advantage. Sure it could be used for juking or edge hogging, but it really isn't that big a deal.

My only question right now is how wavedashing will work with the Wii mote or Wii mote + nunchuck combo.

 

[Phlemingo]

I'm sure even if washdashing or any other techniques are removed, there will other techniques we will still discover.

 

[Eaode]

Wow some peoples' logic is stupid.

If Nintendo decides to listen to the minority of casual players that are extremely arrogant, ignorant and adamantly against Wavedashing and other advanced techs, the game will suck. If Nintendo decides "You know what? Let's take these out because they prevent newer players from winning, let's make it so a new player can stand up to someone who has dedicated time and practice to this game.", the difference between casuals and competitives become smaller, the game has become shallower.

A shallow game can be fun, but not over long periods of time. People will play it, get bored, and stop playing it. Probably the only reason Smash games last as long as they do is because they are so deep. Competitive players (and maybe even hardcore players that don't know the advanced techs yet) continue to play them and that's how newer players find out about the game and keep the scene alive.

I garantee you that if Brawl is a shallow game where "Anyone can win", it will stop being played within 2 years, as opposed to 6 or more.



So thus, "catering to casuals to make more money" as some people say might happen, would actually make them lose money.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Wow some peoples' logic is stupid.

If Nintendo decides to listen to the minority of casual players that are extremely arrogant, ignorant and adamantly against Wavedashing and other advanced techs, the game will suck. If Nintendo decides "You know what? Let's take these out because they prevent newer players from winning, let's make it so a new player can stand up to someone who has dedicated time and practice to this game.", the difference between casuals and competitives become smaller, the game has become shallower.

A shallow game can be fun, but not over long periods of time. People will play it, get bored, and stop playing it. Probably the only reason Smash games last as long as they do is because they are so deep. Competitive players (and maybe even hardcore players that don't know the advanced techs yet) continue to play them and that's how newer players find out about the game and keep the scene alive.

I garantee you that if Brawl is a shallow game where "Anyone can win", it will stop being played within 2 years, as opposed to 6 or more.

So thus, "catering to casuals to make more money" as some people say might happen, would actually make them lose money.

Well it seems like (and this is merely what I see) is that Nintendo has been trying to make the Wii as "n00b friendly" as possible. While I doubt they'd remove ALL advanced techs, I have a feeling that many of them will not return due to the new "n00b friendliness" of the Wii system. But hey, who knows. I certainly don't.

 

[AttackstorM]

in my opinion its pretty much confirmed once they confirmed dodging which looks like it is going to be just like it was in melee.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

The ability to dodge confirms nothing more than the ability that players can dodge.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Lol people are making this game seem kiddie, omg Nintendo is not out to make the games more kiddie. Wavedash does help a lot but the advanced techniques that help the most are other ones like L-cancels and shine blinds. People keep saying that wavedashing is an abuse of the physics of the game but so is SHFFL'ing, so is Shine blinding, and so is a hell of a lot of other things. I doubt they will take out anything, instead, they might accidently add more things, since i can see there is crawling and footstools and etc. Its just a matter of time before something else "cheap" is discovered.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Lol people are making this game seem kiddie, omg Nintendo is not out to make the games more kiddie. Wavedash does help a lot but the advanced techniques that help the most are other ones like L-cancels and shine blinds. People keep saying that wavedashing is an abuse of the physics of the game but so is SHFFL'ing, so is Shine blinding, and so is a hell of a lot of other things. I doubt they will take out anything, instead, they might accidently add more things, since i can see there is crawling and footstools and etc. Its just a matter of time before something else "cheap" is discovered.

Totally irrelevant but.... ugh..... >_< D@mn zelgadis.. d@mn YOU!!

Also, Eaode's logic is hot stuff. ^_^

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Totally irrelevant but.... ugh..... >_< D@mn zelgadis.. d@mn YOU!!

Also, Eaode's logic is hot stuff. ^_^

Lol why do you hate Zel?

 

[Tingle_Stole_My_Pants]

I once wrote a three-page rant/essay on why wavedashing was NOT broken. Oddly enough, only one person disagreed with it, and that was because of a misinterpretation of a typo. Since I forgot to save it on my computer, I'll have to re-type it. In the mean time, let me just say I completely agree with you and I promise to try to remember to edit in that rant/essay here.

 

[thesage]

Shine blind, lol.

 

[Tingle_Stole_My_Pants]

Just to let you guys know, it IS physically possible to do something very similar (but not exactly like) a wavedash. It's dang hard, but it's physically possible. My shoes have very little traction, and it's pretty easy to slide backwards by throwing my weight back and towards the ground, while simultaniously pushing myself back with my forward leg. I've been able to slide up to 7 feet doing that, and still manage to pull off a good jump kick right after. (you end up in the perfect stance to jump kick after that). It really throws people off.

 

[SmashChu]

Wow some peoples' logic is stupid.

If Nintendo decides to listen to the minority of casual players that are extremely arrogant, ignorant and adamantly against Wavedashing and other advanced techs, the game will suck. If Nintendo decides "You know what? Let's take these out because they prevent newer players from winning, let's make it so a new player can stand up to someone who has dedicated time and practice to this game.", the difference between casuals and competitives become smaller, the game has become shallower.

A shallow game can be fun, but not over long periods of time. People will play it, get bored, and stop playing it. Probably the only reason Smash games last as long as they do is because they are so deep. Competitive players (and maybe even hardcore players that don't know the advanced techs yet) continue to play them and that's how newer players find out about the game and keep the scene alive.

I garantee you that if Brawl is a shallow game where "Anyone can win", it will stop being played within 2 years, as opposed to 6 or more.

So thus, "catering to casuals to make more money" as some people say might happen, would actually make them lose money.

WRONG
God, reading your post was like jumping into the phail ocean, then relizing it was actually your post.

Real, just because wavedashing is not in it's "shallow" and will "lose money". I don't know where to start.

If you didn't know, people actually play the game without wavedashing. Crazy I know. So these people must be playing a shallow game. I know plenty of people who still play Melee, even after 6 long years. The game is fun. The game has depth. This is all with out wavedashing. The better player will still win at smash. It's always been like that. Smash64 didn't have wavedashing. It must be shallow now. I guess anyone can win at Smash64.

And it won't sell as much without wavedashing. Do you know anything about marketing. Smash sold 6million+ copies. How many people are on Smashboards. I can tell you it doesn't even make 1/6 of the entire sales of that game. So how in Gods name will it not make money without wavedashing. If you didn't know, most people don't care, or don't even know about it. And even if it's gone, many people here will buy it, and it will sell. It will sell whether you like it or not. It's got enough hype around it. How much effect will wavedashing have on it's sales. A: 0%

Post pahils. gg

 

[thesage]

I don't understand why people want it taken out so badly... If you don't use it, leaving it in probably won't affect you.

Just cause competitive players are a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the smashers, doesn't mean that Sakurai will neglect us... You realize Nintendo encourages stuff like this... Looks at Mario Kart and Snaking... Super Smash Brothers and L-canceling.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

So...

Why do I keep reading these topics? Its so tempting to here what all the ignorant n00bs have to say about something they don't know about...

The Hypnotist-The Thread Maker knows what he is talking about and is actually rational with his explanations.

I think I have heard only one good casual player explanation, appose to all the other good explanations from experienced players. Even though sometimes you guys are wrong even though I'm on your side.

Also there are noobie competitive players attempting to explain themselves and failing so if your a noob competitive player you should not be representing that side of the argument.

Asking yourself "For what reason would they take it out?" is a very good question.
and someone said "to play the game how it was originally intended" which is a pretty good answer, BUT it is not a good answer its a pretty good answer. And that was the best answer in the thread.

So The Hypnotist is still proven right for now, as no one can come up with a good explanation for why it should be removed, and people do come up with good explanations why it should stay.

I would be pretty upset if they removed WD. But it would still be alright nonetheless. BUT if they remove SHFFLing too I would be greatly disheartened, and literally cry. lol.

The better player would usually still come out on top due to the intelligence of the player but it would remove so much depth and would make the game much worse.

I hate talking about this I get sad of thinking this might come true.


EDIT: About the Wario I dont think thats a WD, why would they reveal it? They know we inspect every update closely. I think it has something to do with the incline platform.

 

[ipitydatfu]

where did you get that video from?

 

[x4FoSho4x]

*cries*

WHY??? Why do these pointless WD threads keep popping up! NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN/DISPROVEN!!! Stop acting like it's there/not there!!! We'll all figure it out when the game comes out, until then please, for the sake of God and Jesus Christ Almighty, STOP THE WD THREADS!!

*sobs some more*

Quoted For Truth.

 

[SmashBrosManiac]

Don't know if anyone's said this already, but that move that Wario's doing in the first GIF the OP posted(presumed a slide) looks like his tackle from his GB series, maybe it's his forward B move?

 

[SmashChu]

Asking yourself "For what reason would they take it out?" is a very good question.
and someone said "to play the game how it was originally intended" which is a pretty good answer, BUT it is not a good answer its a pretty good answer. And that was the best answer in the thread.

But that's by your standards. By a lot of other people, that's probably the smartest thing said all day.

The tourney people always think the pro wavedashing side of the argument is 100% right, and will side with people who say stupid things, just because he/she is on their side. Then all the anti WD people are n00bs (i.e. idiots). I say we need to stop these.

 

[thesage]

But that's by your standards. By a lot of other people, that's probably the smartest thing said all day.

The tourney people always think the pro wavedashing side of the argument is 100% right, and will side with people who say stupid things, just because he/she is on their side. Then all the anti WD people are n00bs (i.e. idiots). I say we need to stop these.

No offence or anything, bur if you say that is not the way the game is meant to be played what do you mean? Are you saying your way is better than everybody else's? There's a reason why melee has so many different options, characters, stages, items, etc. The game is meant to be played the way somebody wants to play it. WD'ing doesn't affect you at all. Without WD, tech-skill becomes more important. This would actually widen the skill gap between players... Do you honestly want that? Look at ssb, around 10 people **** at that game and everyone else is a noob compared to them.

The only characters who would be greatly affect by its removal would be Luigi, making him really low tier, and Marth, making him top tier. You seriously want Marth to be more broken than he already is?!?!?!

Competitive players do not look down on people who don't WD as noobs. Every smasher I've encountered, I've tried to teach the adv. techs to. So far they're all interested in it and they become way better. In the time it took you to read this post if you actually do, you could've taught yourself WD.

If anything is cheap it's definetly the c-stick. I mean it's not like the move doesn't come out on the same frame as using control stick + a. /sarcasm.

Hope to **** you in Brawl.


My argument isn't 100% right, but honestly, why do you about things that people who you will never meet do. Do you die a little inside everytime I WD. How about when I shffl. Do you get a STD everytime I shffl?

 

[Takeshi245]

I just want to add that there should be an official wavedashing thread in case anyone wants to discuss it instead of the numerous threads about them. They're annoying. Oh, and wavedashing for Brawl!

 

[The Hypnotist]

The point is there's not good reason to remove wavedashing considering Nintendo likes the metagame and what pros do with wavedashing, it was in the PAL version and casual players don't even know about it. Therefore wavedashing should and will most likely stay.

 

[-Katsuta]

Why do people keep saying that Sakurai and his team support wavedashing when theres no such proof that I've ever seen.

I think wavedashing should be in, but wavedashing continually just makes it rather ******** that there is such a move that breaks the triangle of movement.

With wavedashing, why bother even running or rolling.

Literally, you get to move AND attack AND you get invincible frames.

How ******** is that?

Something from nothing, and you say it adds depth. I say it breaks gameplay with overuse.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Why do people keep saying that Sakurai and his team support wavedashing when theres no such proof that I've ever seen.

I think wavedashing should be in, but wavedashing continually just makes it rather ******** that there is such a move that breaks the triangle of movement.

With wavedashing, why bother even running or rolling.

Literally, you get to move AND attack AND you get invincible frames.

How ******** is that?

Something from nothing, and you say it adds depth. I say it breaks gameplay with overuse.

Read, it's there, read magazines, interviews, and articles.

You make WDing sound broken, and though it's good it's no where near broken? Can you find some videos of Bowser wavedashing more than rolling, please find me those.

More over, your logic says if something is good remove it. So... we should also remove...

L-Canceling
SHFFLing
SHLing
DSHLing
Chain Throwing
WoPing

I could go on forever, I'm sorry, but your logic fails.

 

[thesage]

WD doesn't have invincibily frames. Where do people get that from?

You can only attack after a certain amount of frames after using a WD.

Only some characters use it as their primary movement. Most of those are low tier chararcters.

WD = not broken. If anything shine is broken...

 

[The Hypnotist]

Listen to thesage!

 

[Eaode]

WRONG
God, reading your post was like jumping into the phail ocean, then relizing it was actually your post.

Real, just because wavedashing is not in it's "shallow" and will "lose money". I don't know where to start.

If you didn't know, people actually play the game without wavedashing. Crazy I know. So these people must be playing a shallow game. I know plenty of people who still play Melee, even after 6 long years. The game is fun. The game has depth. This is all with out wavedashing. The better player will still win at smash. It's always been like that. Smash64 didn't have wavedashing. It must be shallow now. I guess anyone can win at Smash64.

And it won't sell as much without wavedashing. Do you know anything about marketing. Smash sold 6million+ copies. How many people are on Smashboards. I can tell you it doesn't even make 1/6 of the entire sales of that game. So how in Gods name will it not make money without wavedashing. If you didn't know, most people don't care, or don't even know about it. And even if it's gone, many people here will buy it, and it will sell. It will sell whether you like it or not. It's got enough hype around it. How much effect will wavedashing have on it's sales. A: 0%

Post pahils. gg

No, you phails.

You fail to see that I WASN'T JUST ADDRESSING WAVEDASHING, and I WASN'T JUST ADDRESSING YOU. I was talking about people saying that Nintendo would take out many known advanced techniques to make it more "Casual Friendly" and "A new player can keep up with a veteran", thus selling more. Which is completely stupid btw, as pointed out in my ost that you completely misunderstood either very stupidly, or purposefully to make it look like you refuted my argument.

Here, let me highlight it for you.

Wow some peoples' logic is stupid.

If Nintendo decides to listen to the minority of casual players that are extremely arrogant, ignorant and adamantly against Wavedashing and other advanced techs, the game will suck. If Nintendo decides "You know what? Let's take these out because they prevent newer players from winning, let's make it so a new player can stand up to someone who has dedicated time and practice to this game.", the difference between casuals and competitives become smaller, the game has become shallower.

A shallow game can be fun, but not over long periods of time. People will play it, get bored, and stop playing it. Probably the only reason Smash games last as long as they do is because they are so deep. Competitive players (and maybe even hardcore players that don't know the advanced techs yet) continue to play them and that's how newer players find out about the game and keep the scene alive.

I garantee you that if Brawl is a shallow game where "Anyone can win", it will stop being played within 2 years, as opposed to 6 or more.



So thus, "catering to casuals to make more money" as some people say might happen, would actually make them lose money.

 

[Saymus]

So... how come this thread, which is purely based upon opinion, is still here, while my thread, which has irrefutable logic, is locked?

 

[DrewbyDewby]

i really hope you're right,
there is no reason to take out wd,
i like that video you had of wario wavelanding

 

[Wyvern]

I've responded to these threads before, but I'm going to do it again, because every time they pop up people continually miss the main issues and just turn it into a "casual vs. tournament" rant.

The predominant view among people on this forum seems to be "I like wavedashing and it should stay exactly the same." THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. Wavedashing as it is now is a MISTAKE. The developers designed the characters and then wavedashing popped up completely independent from their balancing efforts, having its own random effects on the game. This can't happen again. It's impossible. The developers know about it now. They can't, in good conscience, just ignore it again and hope things work out. They need to consider it. They need to make decisions about it. Regardless of whether or not you are in favor of wavedashing being in Brawl, the fact of the matter is that the developers need to factor it into their work, and that's going to result in some changes, one way or another.

I am going to emphasize this again because it is important. The developers need to worry about wavedashing when they are developing the game, which is a new challenge for them. With things as they are now, some characters (let's say Fox) can do all sorts of crazy and useful things with wavedashing, whereas others (let's say Link) simply can't take advantage of it in the same way. And I think we can all agree that that's one advantage that Fox really didn't need over Link to begin with. For Brawl, it's a safe bet that the developers are going to try to balance Fox and Link better against one another, and the advantages potentially conferred by wavedashing are going to come into play. Similarly, characters like Luigi are currently useless unless you abuse the hell out of the game mechanics. Are the developers going to be okay with this, or should they bring Luigi up to par at the base level?

So, continuing with the developer perspective here, what are their choices? The easiest thing to do is remove wavedashing from the game and balance the characters without worrying about it. They'd have a much more complete grasp of the cast's combo potential and could thus balance it with less unknown factors lurking in the background. And they'd buff characters like Luigi and Ice Climbers so they wouldn't have their wavedash-dependancy anymore. All the characters are equal and the game is balanced (in theory, anyway...they have a lot more than just wavedashing to fix one way or another). The downside? Those who are accustomed to high-level play feel that a layer of complexity has been unjustly removed, which is a totally valid concern. The game is balanced, but the cost might be too great.

Option two. Wavedashing continues to exist, mechanically identical to its current incarnation, and the developers balance around it. Melee's wavedashing elite is happy because their style of play is preserved, and they have a lot more viable characters to play as on top of it. However, now we have a whole new mess of issues. This doesn't change the fact that characters like Bowser and Link suck at wavedashing, so if they're going to be able to compete, they need to be beefed up in other areas. Now we have a situation where Fox and Link are equal in a fight between highly-skilled players...but the Fox player had to work ten times as hard to reach that level of proficiency, because Fox's style of play requires a lot more technical aptitude than Link's. That hardly seems fair. And then there's the non-wavedashing public (who, I hasten to remind you, is the majority by a wide margin). They're now stuck with a poorly-balanced cast...if a wavedashing Fox and a wavedashing Bowser are equal, then a non-wavedashing Bowser is going to beat the living tar out of a non-wavedashing Fox. They feel like the game philosophy that they fell in love with--one which emphasizes skilled application of a small pool of very simple abilities--has been thrown away to cater to the whims of an elite few. And quite frankly, I'd say they had a point.

So, if they remove wavedashing completely, they take some depth and variety away from the game, but if they embrace it as it is now, they throw away the core design philosophy of the series and alienate the larger portion of their audience. This obviously calls for a compromise. My proposition? Drop the whole "air-dodge into the ground before you jump to trick traction into moving you" mess and turn wavedashing (or something similar to it which is more custom-designed for each character rather than working purely off traction) into a basic maneuver with an appropriate control method (diagonal-down while holding L/R is the obvious choice here...almost exactly what it was before but not requiring frame-perfect dexterity). It probably wouldn't be quite as useful as it used to be--it'd have its own animations and everything, which might give it a more fixed distance or tiny amounts lag or something--but its presence in the game would finally be fully justified, it would benefit every level of play, and the developers could integrate it fully into character balance without screwing anybody over.

 

[lavamage]

Nice find with the vid and all, and here is a pic of link wavedashing ( I don't know if soemone brought this up already)

On another thread somone posted this pic and said its wavedashing, im not 100% sure though

 

[thesage]

I've responded to these threads before, but I'm going to do it again, because every time they pop up people continually miss the main issues and just turn it into a "casual vs. tournament" rant.

The predominant view among people on this forum seems to be "I like wavedashing and it should stay exactly the same." THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. Wavedashing as it is now is a MISTAKE. The developers designed the characters and then wavedashing popped up completely independent from their balancing efforts, having its own random effects on the game. This can't happen again. It's impossible. The developers know about it now. They can't, in good conscience, just ignore it again and hope things work out. They need to consider it. They need to make decisions about it. Regardless of whether or not you are in favor of wavedashing being in Brawl, the fact of the matter is that the developers need to factor it into their work, and that's going to result in some changes, one way or another.

I am going to emphasize this again because it is important. The developers need to worry about wavedashing when they are developing the game, which is a new challenge for them. With things as they are now, some characters (let's say Fox) can do all sorts of crazy and useful things with wavedashing, whereas others (let's say Link) simply can't take advantage of it in the same way. And I think we can all agree that that's one advantage that Fox really didn't need over Link to begin with. For Brawl, it's a safe bet that the developers are going to try to balance Fox and Link better against one another, and the advantages potentially conferred by wavedashing are going to come into play. Similarly, characters like Luigi are currently useless unless you abuse the hell out of the game mechanics. Are the developers going to be okay with this, or should they bring Luigi up to par at the base level?

So, continuing with the developer perspective here, what are their choices? The easiest thing to do is remove wavedashing from the game and balance the characters without worrying about it. They'd have a much more complete grasp of the cast's combo potential and could thus balance it with less unknown factors lurking in the background. And they'd buff characters like Luigi and Ice Climbers so they wouldn't have their wavedash-dependancy anymore. All the characters are equal and the game is balanced (in theory, anyway...they have a lot more than just wavedashing to fix one way or another). The downside? Those who are accustomed to high-level play feel that a layer of complexity has been unjustly removed, which is a totally valid concern. The game is balanced, but the cost might be too great.

Option two. Wavedashing continues to exist, mechanically identical to its current incarnation, and the developers balance around it. Melee's wavedashing elite is happy because their style of play is preserved, and they have a lot more viable characters to play as on top of it. However, now we have a whole new mess of issues. This doesn't change the fact that characters like Bowser and Link suck at wavedashing, so if they're going to be able to compete, they need to be beefed up in other areas. Now we have a situation where Fox and Link are equal in a fight between highly-skilled players...but the Fox player had to work ten times as hard to reach that level of proficiency, because Fox's style of play requires a lot more technical aptitude than Link's. That hardly seems fair. And then there's the non-wavedashing public (who, I hasten to remind you, is the majority by a wide margin). They're now stuck with a poorly-balanced cast...if a wavedashing Fox and a wavedashing Bowser are equal, then a non-wavedashing Bowser is going to beat the living tar out of a non-wavedashing Fox. They feel like the game philosophy that they fell in love with--one which emphasizes skilled application of a small pool of very simple abilities--has been thrown away to cater to the whims of an elite few. And quite frankly, I'd say they had a point.

So, if they remove wavedashing completely, they take some depth and variety away from the game, but if they embrace it as it is now, they throw away the core design philosophy of the series and alienate the larger portion of their audience. This obviously calls for a compromise. My proposition? Drop the whole "air-dodge into the ground before you jump to trick traction into moving you" mess and turn wavedashing (or something similar to it which is more custom-designed for each character rather than working purely off traction) into a basic maneuver with an appropriate control method (diagonal-down while holding L/R is the obvious choice here...almost exactly what it was before but not requiring frame-perfect dexterity). It probably wouldn't be quite as useful as it used to be--it'd have its own animations and everything, which might give it a more fixed distance or tiny amounts lag or something--but its presence in the game would finally be fully justified, it would benefit every level of play, and the developers could integrate it fully into character balance without screwing anybody over.

You're whole balancing arguement is flawed when your realize that the majority of higher tiered characters don't rely on WD'ing as much as other chars. Fox would still **** Link without wd *cough* drillshine *cough*. Take it out and Mewtwo becomes more garbage, Luigi sucks, IC's don't have combos, and people who don't have good range cannot fake out. Sheik's WD sucks and she's still broken. People need to realize that a good WD doesn't make a character broken. Look at Mewtwo, Ness, and G&W. As it is right now, it helps to balance the game even more.

Will it be in Brawl? Yes (look at l-cancelling). Will it be changed? Probably.

Could explain how it ruins the series? (but if they embrace it as it is now, they throw away the core design philosophy of the series and alienate the larger portion of their audience.) Considering the large majority of their audience doesn't know about it and I don't even know what to say about the philosophy part. It's a video game >.>

 

[Red Exodus]

I'd like to know how Wavedashing is going to ruin the game when most people don't even know about it. Doesn't make sense.

 

[thesage]

I'd like to know how Wavedashing is going to ruin the game when most people don't even know about it. Doesn't make sense.

QFT. How many people are on this forum? 74,000 people. This includes non-active members, people with multiple accounts, and people from Nsider forums. How many copies of smash were sold? 6 million. Divide those numbers to find the percent of people who know about WD'ing who will probably get brawl (plus the game will sell more copies).

74,000/6,000,000 = 1.23% of smashers. That's considering that ALL forumgoers are users of WD. I willing to say that less than half of those actually fits into that category. The amount of people who know about WD or use it outside of this forum could be factored in, but it certainly is negligible. Considering it would still be less than 1.23% which already is a hella small number.

Owned by math.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Lol wavedashing makes characters more equal, look at CF, his wavedash isnt that great, but he still has SHFFL. Look at Peach she cant wavedash that good either, oh but she has Float Cancels. And sheik she cant wavedash that well either, but she has chain grabs. Look at Falco his wavedash is fine but a little slow, but he has Shine spikes. Wavedash is one of the few techniques that improves your play, wavedash just happens to be the most notisable one. Yes WD was a mistake, but a hella good one.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I could really care less either way..

Its an obvious glitch.. (you cannnot say they programmed the game with wavedashing in mind)

But I don't use it.. nor do i play against anyone who uses it..

Maybe online mode, but i'll adapt..

 

[thesage]

I'm saying WD'ing makes chars more equal cause the lower tiered chars are the ones who rely much more on WD'ing than higher tiered chars. I go to tourneys and play Ness, Peach, and Jiggs. Trust me I know (I still WD with Peach, but not with Jiggs).

BTW @ Jumpinhahosafa: You have a 1 out of 100 chance of meeting somebody who Wavedashes if they're onilne. It might even be lower cuz I know most people who go to tourneys will want to play each other more to get better.