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Analyzing projectile properties and in game stategies with them

Disfunkshunal

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Analyzing projectile properties


New things to look into....




In this section i will post certain areas/techniques/ or other things that need to be talked about or looked into
  • Reflecters: a fair amount of the cast has some type of reflector. So far in this thread we only talked about the projectiles and stategies for them, however we did not talk about when is the best time to use them. this is especially important when going against those who posses reflectors
  • B-sticking: What are the advantages of it? what can this set up? i set a name to b-stick today and went to training mode. the b-stick makes it alot easier to RAR, this can help with retreating projectiles. also if you shoot an arrow within a time frame after RAR with the b-stick you'll turn around again
  • safe spike: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6250964&postcount=84 this is version 2.0 and 3.0 is being worked on. if i were to give the link to 3.0 first you may be confused since it doesnt have all the details. just know there is a 3.0
  • grabbing with a bomb in hand. omgwtfbbq? is that even possible?!?!?
  • Follow ups to the 'specail momentum shift'
  • bomb stage spikes-what are all the board this can be done on,can we make metaknght spike himself with it and some other stuff.
Key
1.title
2.sub title
3.sub-sub titles lol
4.damage%
5.example
6.TL;DR
7.facts
8.reader submittted additions and my comments
9. attemp to try to get you to help/motivation
__________________________________________________________________________________
table of contents
1.abreviations and definitons
2.proyectiles
-bombs
-boomerang
-arrows
3.dealing with reflectors
-strategies
-inverse
-damages
4. Using The opp proyectiles
-diddy
-peach
5. Random techniques
6.Teh vids
7.motivational speeches
8.F.A.Q











Abbreviations & definitions

"what does... mean?"


  • sh- short hop. to do a short hop you need to push your jump button and must release it before toonlink leaves the ground.
  • shda- a short hop double arrow. this technique consist of you doing a short hop, and firing two arrows. the second arrow will be fired as you hit the ground and the lag will be cancelled
  • B sticking- when you change your controls in options, you set the c-stick to specails instead of smashes.
  • Uair/Bair/Dair/Nair/Fair/Zair- your aerials. the U, B, D, N, and F, stand for up, back, down, nuetral, and forward respectively. the suffix air is just saying its an aerial. Zair is pressing z in the air causing in aerial hookshot.
  • Fsmash/Dsmash/Usmash- your smashes. like the aerials, the F, D, and U, stand for forward, down, and up.
  • RAR- reverse aerial rush. you run in one direction and quickly turn around. as soon as you turn jump, and you should keep backward momentum. this is most commonly used to do bairs while facing an opponent. this is easiest with the b-stick. run in desired direction and then hit back on the b-stick.
  • Z-drop- the act of dropping a bomb on the ground. this is done by jumping and pressing z, right before you touch the ground, or while passing through a platform.
More to come............





ProYectiles
"They're like rain thunder and lighting. None of them are complete without the other too. And they all proceed a tornado (that means the hero of winds is near!)"



Bombs:

what can I say about these? Every toon uses them constantly; they are what draw people to this midget of ours. Now let me ask you question: how much damage do they take? If you don’t know of the top of your head you might run to wii and do a quick with anyone match. The match starts you pull out a bomb sh and throw it at your opponent it hits and takes 6 damage. Ok you know now. Finish kicking the metaknight’s butt and come say that. Well that’s only partially correct. A fresh, un decayed bomb can take anywhere from 2-7% all depending on the motion the bomb is in when it leaves your hand and the direction it hits in. what I mean by this is there are 3 types of motion a bomb can be in
• Thrown- easy you pushed A
• Fall- z drop
• Drop- you know when you get hit and the bomb falls to the ground but doesn’t explode. Ill also use this for when you place a bomb on the ground
Ok, list of percents and how to get them
• 2%-run up to your opponent sh and let bomb fall~you will get hit
• 3%- in your hand or it was dropped and daired to opponent
• 4%- immediately out of a footstool or while rising but above opponent fall bomb
• 5%-tilt throw or standard a form side or underneath
• 6%- smash throw from side or underneath
• 7%-thrown bomb hits from above
Now you maybe asking yourself “well how exactly does this help me?”, easy now you know the best way to build damage with bombs. You may also be thinking “so to get 7% I have to jump above my opponent and throw the bomb down? Well what if they dodge it, now im almost helpless because I dint have a safe way to get back to the board and dair is easily punished.”, in order for the bomb to 7% you don’t have to throw it down, you can throw it up and let it hit your opponent on the way down. For example lets say santi is in a match against tlmsheikant on final destination. Santi is toonlink and tlmsheikant is dk. Santi just knocked dk of the board and ran to the other side. When dk gets back on santi throws a bomb up and rolls out of its blast range. Tlmsheikant has a couple choices: he can approach and risk getting hit by the bomb or stay back and endure a barrage of arrow s and boomerang and a second bomb. Lets say he approaches and shields right as the bomb is about to explode, grab him. Lets say he approaches and side steps, punish that with any quick move move. And I don’t need to say that if he choses to stay away 30% more damage. The bomb takes about 3-4 seconds to fall from a smash throw on the ground use that time to your advantage. Also you don’t have to let the bomb explode as it comes back to the field you can catch 7 different ways. Also the bomb only last 7-8 seconds (I think 7 is bombs lucky number lol). Your 5 aerials, dash attack, and just pushing A, allows you to catch an airborne bomb. By throwing up bombs and doing something to the opponent and finishing just in time to catch the bomb again has the potential to be very beneficial to toonlink. For example lets say urdailwater (toonlink) is going against irjon (diddy) on battle field. Water throws the bomb up from the top platform and iron tries to fair him. Water sidesteps and then catches diddy in a bair combo, finishes it with nair, di’s back to the top platform and catches the bomb with another nair. Now think of the situation water has been placed in: His bomb will last about as long as a grenade so iron can try to attack and get away before bomb goes off, but I doubt water will let him. Water can throw the bomb and hope it his or he can throw it up in hope of pulling a 3:10-santi style. If you ever play me in a match if I knock you off the board, 90% I will do this: pull out bomb throw it up, pull out 2nd bomb throw it up, jump catch bomb with nair,fair, bair and depending on where opponent is throw it at opponent, up for fun, down for fun. Water if you saved any replays look for it, irjon if we ever get to play look for it, I always did it as sort of a taunt but I think it may lead to some in game strategies. The many possibilities with this if done accurately are endless. This can lead to some projectile traps we have yet to discover and possibly lead toonlink into higher teirs. I could list a lot more bomb strategies using this but I cant think of any at the moment but fast already listed some different strategies here.
What others had to say about bombs
Air dodge catches bombs too.
And a well-timed Z in the air.
And Zair.
How could i forget Z catching, lol i do it all the time with diddy. I didnt know that you could catch it with zair, i would usually do one or the other. This is good to know.
Something that we might be ignoring about the bombs is all the smoke it creates. Try Z-dropping a bomb, landing in the smoke and then throwing a boomerang out of it. The other players won't see the start up animation and out of the smoke will come an unexpected boomerang. I've done this in a match and it works. Shooting an arrow out of the smoke doesn't work that well because it makes too much noise.
Smoke shield huh? very interesting....
Hmm Dont know how usefull this is but i've done this a few time (most of them unintentionally and on impulse :p)

Bombs: Similiar to Snakes Nade Shield tactic, Toon Link Pulls out a bomb and shields just as it explodes, dealing damage to opp while your protected in the shirld and in a close position to attack.

Cause when TL pulls out a bomb they'll be expecting a bomb throw or Zair or SH aerial, but instead you rush at them, SH or somthing and shield. Mindgames?
This is situational but useful nonetheless. As i reread this i started thinking about how i said if you throw the bomb up and cach it it willl last for about as along as snakes grenade. If you can get everything to go right you will be able to follow up with moves like Usamsh. If someone including mcdingus could find possibly an easier way/ less situational way this would be more useful. If no its still good to keep in the back of your mind.
a small little idea I have building upon McDingus' suggestion to use TL's bomb like Snakes nade, I haven't tested this in actual play yet, I will soon though.

one could possibly pull out a bomb, C-stick throw it up, pull another bomb out,SH throw,Double jump aerial dodge to catch the bomb,Rang out of the aerial dodge, approach, shield, continue to follow up with whatever you can.

This sounds highly situational, though I thought I might as well throw it out there.
It used correctly, its pretty good. check out vid at the bottom
You can short hop -> bomb pull and then Z drop (AKA< the SHBD technique =P).

Then shield when you land.
Would probably work.
less situational alternate of above. To my knowledge it works just as well only difference is, this one works better closer up.
Hey guys, I figured out something weird. I'm not sure if it's known, it should be known because it's so obvious. I'll tell you anyway.

Firstly, I figured out that you can Z-drop a bomb on the ground by jumping and Z-dropping just after you leave the ground. You need to be on any slope, facing uphill, and you need to drop it straight after you jump, (not just before you touch the ground).
Note: The steeper the slope, the easier.

Secondly, If you do this Z-dropping technique on a steep slope, the bomb will slowly slide down hill. It will look strangely white and because it's moving (no matter how slow) it will explode if an opponent touches it. If you drop it too late it will bounce down the slope, you can still make it jump by useing dair but it's less useful. If you drop it any later then that it will explode.

Thirdly, If you do a dair, and land next too the slowly sliding bomb on the higher side of it, instead of sliding off as it usualy would, the bomb will actually jump. You will slide away down the slope, and the bomb will jump after you. Whether it hits you or not all depends on where you started. A good place to test this for yourselves is on Corneria, do it on the one steep slope there is and you will see what I'm talking about.
Note: If you do a dair and it lands on the lower side of the sliding bomb, nothing will happen (other then you sliding off), If you land on the sliding bomb with dair, it will explode.
Also note: This works on all steep slopes except for the green pipe on yoshi's island (Melee), because for some strange reason, the bomb won't slide down the pipe.

So just to sum up; (You have a bomb) Face the steep slope that your standing on, jump and Z-drop straight away, use dair, watch the fun.
Named 'slope bombing'. This technique is situational but still pretty useful. This is a great suprise attack. It ahould also be noted that fox discovered that if it hits your shield the bomb jumps straight up, and if it is reflected while sliding, the bomb will 'change sides'. This means it now belongs to the opp not it will switch direction. Also a bomb will be put in 'z-drop mode' if you throw it up and it is right above a platform at the apex of the throw. Vid is coming soon! This has the potential to be done on 99% of slopes with the only known exception yi melee pipe.
Sliding Jab
How to perform: Dash in one direction, pivot and hold A just as your coming out of the pivot. The timing is quite hard. Also you can do this reversed. To do the Sliding Jab reversed, Dash in one direction, pivot, turn back around and hold A (the same timing). Here is a video to help you understand the timing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvUZHyY_LQ
Effect: The effect is not as great as it is for C Falcon. However it will still work for Fox. Fox will dash, pivot, then slide and jab. Reversed, he will dash, pivot, then turn around slide backwards and jab.

Ok just replace Fox with Toon Link, and Jab with Slash. Toon Link actually slides further then Fox so this is more useful to us.
Also you may be wondering why I posted this in a projectile thread. Well I worked out that if you do the sliding Jab (Slash) while holding a bomb, you will do a sliding throw. This works both forwards and backwards. Useful? You bet!
Ive found a way to 100% spike ur opponent if they stand on the edge.

Simple: Pick a bom, try not to be openly, Just try to mindgame him. After that when ur close to him do a Short hop, Z-drop, ( Front of him ) not on him cause you will blow urself up.

But in front, so if it hits just Dair.

i tested it on low % it works on 200% to. :) so its 100% spike, so Dont worry about the Dmg and knock back of the bom.
This is a grat inescapable combo. This also can be done with any move and doesnt have to be near the edge unless you are trying to spike and not just build damage/combo.
Check H_R's vid at the bottom, its somewhere in there.


TL;DR: bombs change damage depending on how they’re thrown and playing with bombs can lead to mindgames



Boomerang:

Imo toonlinks moth flexible projectile in terms of the way it travels. The boomerang also changes damage but this has to do with the distance between you and your opponent when you throw it.
• Up really close 11%
• A little more than swords length apart 8%
• Far apart 5%
• Boomerang’s full lenth or on the way back 3%
*if boomerang hits opponent from back where it would normally do 5% or 3% it will still do 8%
The boomerang is good for interrupting opponent’s attacks/ combos/ chaingrabs on its way back. We also use the boomerang on the way back to set up a guaranteed Fsmash. However with the exception of sasuke and rutger have we really experimented with the returning boomerang? It can set up for a variety of attacks. If you’re close enough when the boomerang hits you can follow up with almost any attack. This gives you an opportunity to use some of your lesser used moves or at higher percents go for the kill. It takes 3-4 seconds boomerang return smashed and 2-3 seconds boomerang return tilted. For example lobos(tliink) is going against asdioh (kirby). Lobo throws a boomerang behind him and runs behind asdioh. Asdioh does a backwards roll beacuse he thought lobos was going to hit him. Lobos does a dash attack , it hits,returning boomerang hits asdioh right into lobos Usmash for the the win.Something else I noticed how much have we tried to control/realize patterns and effectively use the returning boomerang’s off-paths. What I mean is if the boomerang is coming back and we go out of the way so the boomerang goes past us into some odd way. If we learn how to fully control it, it has the potential to set up major mindgames. Learning to utilize it to its fullest extent will allow us to also create some amazing projectile traps.
Things about boomerangs other people noticed
I've got a cool way of using the returning boomerang.

Throw it out, if your opponent sidesteps, rolls or jumps it; grab them. Smack them about a bit until the boomerang returns then either throw them after the boomerang hits resulting in a further 8% (hits them in the back) or throw them into the returning boomerang which is a great setup for pretty much anything.

Also try throwing it at your opponent when they're on the ground, they should move (roll/attack) creating invincibility frames which will make the boomerang go right past... then grab, and so on.
This is what im talking about. The boomerang has the potential to lead into anything, and if you look for these "combos" as Fox did we will become alot better. Fox ill make sure i try these out. i espicially like the 2nd one mindgamez.
I've done a powerful damage racker combo, it goes like this.

1. Throw boomerang at opponent, it misses the opponent.
2. Short hop, pull out bomb
3. Charge your arrow
4. Release arrow
5. Returning Boomerang hits
6. Throw bomb
7. F-air or N-air to end the combo.

This combo does about 25-30% damage and it helped me alot vs my matches against Snake because your out of his tilt range.
sounds llike if everything goes right this could be a solid combo. the only thing is if they attack fast enough out of the sidestep we have a little problem. I will try this though.
Okay, so I'm looking at boomerangs a bit.

This will be slightly unpredictable for those who are inexperienced with these boomerang paths.

But they're not really that unpredictable.

The boomerang should not be used primarily for these paths, but for just hitting with the throw rather than the return. These paths are sort of like quickdraw, not suitable alone but good to fit in.
Unless we can find a way to change the trajectory dramatically when the boomerang is behind us.

The two main ways I'm looking at changing the boomerang path are:
Jumping over it as it comes back. (JUMP OVER)
Jumping, then letting it come over you as it comes back. (JUMP AND FALL)
Fast falling after you jump over makes an effect. (FAST FALL AFTER)
It also depends on wether you use short hop or full hop (SH) (FH)

There's a lot of timing stuff, so the possibilities I list here aren't all that you can do.

For example there's this weird thing that happens

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. FAST FALL AFTER. It makes a straight line. Good for hitting behind you in a straight line

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. It makes a shallow U-shape.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL. It goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL THROUGH PLATFORM, it goes straight down behind you.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER, it goes behind you and up in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER SH. FAST FALL AFTER. Goes a bit up and then straight line.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL SH, it goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes past you and sort of an upside down U.

Throw it down JUMP OVER, it goes straight up behind you.

Throw it down JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes high over you and then goes in a straight line.

Throw it down JUMP AND FAL SH, it goes a bit over you and goes in an upside down shallow U shape.

Also full jump is really good for JUMP AND FALL
This is good stuff. All we need now is to find wasy to add it into game play and then profit. Way to go TLM.
I'm not very experienced or technical like any of you guys, and I tend to mess up my own instinctive style of playing by attempting any, but have you guys ever thought about spamming your boomerangs to SET UP a grab combo?

I once was able to pull a combo by spamming boomerangs. Once my opponent got hit, I rushed in, tapped z twice (had bomb), grabbed, and whacked the opponent until he was released, and picked up the bomb and threw it at him. It racked up major %, and had greater potential because I missed the follow up barrages of attacks b/c I was stoked about picking up the bomb.
Proof that anyone can contribute:)

If anyone didnt know this was the returning boomerang on a straight path. I really like the idea but its a little risky. We would need to know specific persents and bomb times, and the perfect boomerang path to make this inescapable but when we do this would be a good damage racker. If someone could look into a way to see if the boomerang would lead into a grab 100% of the time that would be good. and DCstyle if you could remember/ find out an approximate percent that would also be appreciated.
I've been messing with the boomerang alot more in my game. And I'm loving it. I've been doing the trick where you run to the ledge, and right when you are about to get off, you use the boomerang and go flying off really far. Like mario's cape. Most of the time, they dodge the hit, but since they have to go up, its an almost guaranteed uair. Also, if the just throw the boomerang down when off the stage, the opponent usually falls under it, and this can lead to a spike. And, boomerand as a tech chase works sooo well =]
Thats really cool, all of it. How could it be used as a tech chase though? Also while we're talking about edge guarding if you throw the boomerang right below the lip on final d, the boomerang will go straight down and come back up through the stage. i remember reading that a while back, it was either sasuke or santi that said it.

The Special Momentum Shift
It's a technique that makes you reverse your momentum without turning and facing the other way.
Well this is only partly true, in actual fact you are turning around twice really quickly so it looks like you haven't turned around at all.
It's quite easily done with a boomerang and it's possible to do with an arrow, I'm just not entirely sure how. Edit: I now know how to do it with an arrow as well, I will explain later on. Using a boomerang is still easier.
It can be done by jumping backwards and forwards, but backwards is more effective.

For explaination purposes I'll use the boomerang as the projectile, I'll also say backwards and forwards instead of left and right (Just know that if your facing right and I want you to hit right, then I'll say forwards and visa versa). Enough talk. This is how you do it.

To do the Special Momentum Shift jumping backwards, jump backwards and smash Backward B, Forward, really quickly. This will make you jump backwards, start throwing the boomerang behind you, turn around and throw the boomerang the original way you were facing (forwards), and reverse your momentum so instead of jumping backwards, your now jumping forwards. (You still with me?)

To do the Special Momentum Shift jumping forwards, jump forwards and smash Backward B, Forward, really quickly. This will make you jump forwards, start throwing the boomerang behind you, turn around and throw the boomerang the original way you were facing (forwards), and reverse your momentum so instead of jumping forwards, your now jumping backwards. Note this way is less effective.

The Special Momentum Shift can as I said be done with an arrow as well. I think the way to do it with an arrow is instead of smashing Backward (In Backward B, Forward) you tilt hit backward, then continue the B, forward as usual.
Edit: This is confirmed, this is how you reverse your momentum without turning around using an arrow. I'll explain in more detail.
To do this with a boomerang you jump in any direction then hit Backwards B, Forwards really quickly.
To do this with an arrow you jump in any direction then slightly tilt Backwards B, then hit forwards as usual (All done really quickly of course).
this technique can be done with both boomerangs and arrows but is much more helpful with boomerangs, which is why i put it here. This technique can be used as a really good spacing tool. You can use to approach or retreat. When approching, this techinque puts you up close and allows for a varierty of moves. If they approach you while you are approcahing the boomerang will hit them or get them to sidestep and you can punish the side step with a fast move like nair. if they retreat when you approach you can follow them with the boomerang or reset the situation. In the retreating way you wont be up close for any attack but some of your longer moves like zair can still be used and the boomernag can still hinder there approach this way.


TL;DR: boomerang's weird paths, if learned, can help us set up some good mindgames and combos



Arrows:

I really don’t know what to say about these. Their path is predetermined and they do 4% uncharged form all directions. By doing shda you can shoot two arrows in quick succession. For example VietG(tlink) is going against Quivo(luigi). Quivo tries to approach using the tornadoe but vietg cancels it with arrows and follows up with a sh zair.following a shorthopped nair/bair, you can quickdraw in arrow. something to note *once an arrow hits the gorund it's dead. No after-burn fire effect:(
Damage list:
•4% uncharged
•5% less than a second of charge
•6% about a second of charge
•7% a little more than a second charge
•8% as the arrow head is reaching the bow
•9% right before full charge
•12% full charge
*a fully charged arrow can be held infinatly
They can change the direction you’re facing as well. I personally cant find anything else at the moment but you might be able to. Just keep trying new things and observing unusual properties.
Things about arrows people like to point out i forgot
If this helps I quickly checked out the arrows and a fully charged shot does 12%. It doesn't matter where you shoot them or how far away they are, the damage will stay the same depending on how long you charged it. You can keep it charged forever unlike Pit.
i've noticed how the damage stays constant in all areas, this can be both benefecail, and hurtful. Tomorow ill try to get a full range of arrow values. it just seems like noone ever charges them.
Some things that aren't in the original post about arrows that I should mention:

It does say that you can change your direction with them but dosen't go into much more detail, so I will.

If in mid air you pull out an arrow and directly after that you smash the opposite direction from the way your facing, you will turn around and your momentum will go with you. (What I don't see people doing is charging it and turning around, something I love to do.)

If your running away from someone and you want to turn around and shoot them, then turning around this way isn't the best choice. Instead jump, smash the other direction first (you won't turn around at this point) then hit B. This will make you shoot in the other direction but it won't reverse your momentum. This is much better for spacing. (Again, try charging it every once in a while.)


Random uses for charging:

If you charge and shoot Snake during his Up B recovery, instead of just doing damage it will stop him in his tracks. (charged to 7% only damage, charged to 8% or over, stopped) He will of course be able to use another Up B, so it's up to you whether or not you'll use this and why.

If you charge your shot, then (along with bombs) you'll be able to stop Meta knight's whornado and do damage.

More coming. I hope.
The B reversal is done by jumping forward (facing right, it doesn't matter) and hitting B left. This makes you jump forwards and face right, then turn around, face and shoot left and instantly DI left. The main problem with this is you need to be a long way away for this to help, because by reversing your momentum back towards the opponent your losing your space.

The Backwards B Reversal is done by jumping backwards (facing right, again) and hitting B left. This will make you jump backwards and face right, then turn around, face and shoot left but you will Instantly DI right. By doing this your giving yourself loads of space and it's much harder to punish, thus a much better move.
Fox usually use this move to give him enough space and time to charge a shot and then shoot it when he is in line with them
i've found a new AT with TL that could be kinda useful to mindgames( might be old )

Technique: *backwards arrow*

the steps which make up the technique are rather simple but the timing that binds it together is a little tricky.

1st: jump: it doesn't matter how high , it doesn't matter if you attack in the air and it doesn't even matter if you fastfall, just jump.

2nd: quickdraw: very widely known technique. however you need to perform this quickdraw exceptionally quick for the technique to work.

3rd: B-reversal: (once again a popular technique)change directions as / right before the twang of the arrow(easiest in 1/4 speed in training)

the whole thing: your character should take there bow out on the ground facing in the opposite direction and slide a very short distance with an arrow coming from the back of the character.
Arrow seems to be less laggy fox. And wavebounce is the same as SMS. It works like this:
1: Run a little to one side, lets say to the right.
2: Jump while having momentum to that side.
3: Press B.
4: Immediately press in the other direction of the jump when u press B.
5: The opponent has 2 options when he first sees this new arrow grab- He will see the arrow, react and put up his shield allowing u to grab his shield. Or he gets hit by the arrow and he gets grabbed. Either way its a win. Of course, if u start abusing it way too much ur opponent will expect it and roll or jump away from that. That's where the mindgames are. If u predict a roll follow his roll (unless he is lucario >_>) to an upB he should be hit by the arrow and the upB. If he jumps u can follow him with nair.
This all is a really good grab mindgame. Like you said though using this too much would get predictable, whic unless they roll back or jump is bad.


TL;DR: Idk anything about arrows that isn’t already known





Dealing With Reflectors
"You know them, you hate them, you see them everywhere"

Strategies- some helpful tips ands pointers
Fox is openly deceptive had this to say: Throw bombs IN FRONT OF hte reflector. They can reflect the bombs but not the explosion.

Inverse- how the enemy views the situation

Damages- how much do you get hurt

Bombs
Bomb damges stay constant no matter what. They will never trade on you by giving you more damage. Another reason why bombs are so cool!

Boomerangs
Fox's Down B = 4%
Falco's Down B = 4%
Wolf's Down B = 3%
Mario's Side B = 4%
Pit's Down B = 4%
Zelda's B = 3%

Arrows
Uncharged Arrows
Fox's Down B = 6%
Falco's Down B = 6%
Wolf's Down B = 5%
Mario's Side B = 6%
Pit's Down B = 6%
Zelda's B = 4%

Middle values coming soon!
Fully charged arrows
Fox's Down B = 18%
Falco's Down B = 18%
Wolf's Down B = 15%
Mario's Side B = 18%
Pit's Down B = 18%
Zelda's B = 14%
Ness's Side Smash = 18%
Lucas's Side Smash = 18%
Rob's Side B = 18%


Using the opp's proyectiles
"Noone is allowed to have a projectile but us!"

Diddy
Bananas
short hop banana throw to zair to nair

jump cancel down throw to Ftilt chain

SH Down throw on his head, Bair catch, fastfall, repeat

Peanuts

Link
Bombs

Peach
Turnips

R.O.B
Gyro

Snake
Grenades

Wario
Bike parts

Zamus
Suit pieces




:colorful::colorful::colorful:Random techniques:colorful::colorful::colorful:
":crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:"


Thats right. After extensive testing and making sure I was right, I came to the conclusion that this is confirmed. This means that we can use the SMS to cancel our momentum and save us from our ultimate demise. Just so it's clear, I'll explain what you have to do and what happens.

If you get smashed left or right off stage and you want to use this to save yourself then as soon as you get hit, start trying to do a Bair. As soon as it comes out, jump (jumping is essential) then as soon as you can, hit Backwards B, Forwards (SMS). This will cancel your momentum. You will neither travel forwards or backwards for half a second then you can easilly DI back on stage. Sounds too good to be true? Hey he's a Cartoon, He's supposed to defy the laws of physics and smash. This is yet another way to use the SMS.

Thank you DarkISDA for this brilliant idea. Anymore?
If you do this you will jump forwards, throw the Boomerang forwards and slightly DI Backwards. This is known. If you do find a way to shift your momentum forward while jumping forward, then that would be cool as.
Braking For us! Original idea from Darkisda

wanna know a cool trick?
on temple, (awesome level :D ) if u are stuck at the bottom and want a great lookin good way of getting up to the top then follow these instructions...
on the bottom platform take out a bomb count to 2 and jump of the edge. DONT DASH or you will only get one jump. do double jump, then up + B to try and get as much distance and height as possible, then the bomb should explode and you can up+ B again to latch onto the side of the top right bit.
cool taunt/ way to be flashy in friendlies
Teh Vids!
"teh vids are much better than the vids."


SMS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2qpfRmlSig

Bomb idea 0001 (Power of slash idea/move)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9CG2...e=channel_page

BBQ (0:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1FNEtQN-uk
Toonlink recap by H_R. (this deals specificly with bombs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFOsV_KXY4
Spike combo 0:05- 1:18(this shows the basic set up for the pike combo and shows many things the basic setup can lead into as well as the spike)
Footstool bomb spike 1:18-1:50 (the name says it all- footstool to bombthrow to dair)
Slope bombing 1:50-2:40 (this shows everything a bomb placed on a slope can do)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFOsV_KXY4



Get Motivated!
"Just do it"



Santi once said that the best toonlink has amazing projectile traps or something to that effect. So where are our traps? A while ago in a thread about board personalities, someone said toonlink’s was “we found a new way to be gay with projectiles”. What’s our new way to be gay cool with projectiles? I go to and read the diddy boards as much as I come to and read the toonlink boards and it seems like more recently, they’ve been advancing their banana game than we’ve been advancing any of our projectiles. More recently I’ve seen chrome pirate come up 4 new things that add to diddy’s game {chrome pirate is a diddy user if you didn’t know), where’s the person adding to our game? The only way toonlink will get better is if we make him better; discover new uses for moves, or something along those lines. We’ve come to far to stop now, Toonlink IS the best character in brawl (diddy is a close 2nd :bigthumbu) and now is the time to prove it.





Feel Free to correct me, add something or constuctively critique this thread. THis thread was made to help people find new options, look at projectiles in a new way, and the more help i have the more stuff will be in here. I want everyone to pitch in. From noobs (i dont use this term offencely, i think of myself as a noob) to pros. Noobs have a more open mind since they dont really know the best way to do something they try alot of different things that may be useful. Pros have more experince and will be able to maybe find more ways to link things together. Everyone can add something.


k so general discusion:
tommorrow ill post something i noticed about bombs and some other junk
one day late sorry





F.A.Q.



What are some frequently asked questions? i cant think of any now
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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I've got a cool way of using the returning boomerang.
Throw it out, if your opponent sidesteps, rolls or jumps it; grab them. Smack them about a bit until the boomerang returns then either throw them after the boomerang hits resulting in a further 8% (hits them in the back) or throw them into the returning boomerang which is a great setup for pretty much anything.
Also try throwing it at your opponent when they're on the ground, they should move (roll/attack) creating invincibility frames which will make the boomerang go right past... then grab, and so on.
Anyway great thread, just write more about the arrows. Such as how much damage it does charged up and so on.
 

QUIVO

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I skimmed through it and it's interesting. I like the the last paragraph for some reason, but I don't know if TL is the best character in the game..

TL's projectiles = everything. You just have to use them strategically to make him good.
 

Sosuke

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Air dodge catches bombs too.
And a well-timed Z in the air.
And Zair.

Returning boomerang is the future I tell you.

Good thread.
 

vanderzant

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Good job.

I think personally i have to improve using projectiles strategically, and not just mindlessly spamming SHDA, Bomb Pull -> Arrow Cancel, full hop rang -> AC, etc. But thats probably just me.

I've never tried it before but it's probably easier to hit with a fully/semi charged arrow then a weak one. Maybe a potential mindgame?
 

Disfunkshunal

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thanks everybody i have been trying to discover new things with projectiles, and i thought this thread would help inspire more people to also.

And quivo i know he isnt but i was caught up in the moment lol

Edit: anybody that wasnt mentioned in an example or made refrenced to will be in my next thread like this if you even care.
that means shadowmoth, prepare yourself, the jerm and anyone else i cant think of now
 

Disfunkshunal

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if only toonlink had a longer sword. if it was as long as ikes he would be the best.

i forgot to say earlier ill add the stuff fox and sasuke said later on today. As long as people find things i left out, ill update this thread everyday at around 11. that gives everyone a chance to see this thread and play around with some things
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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If this helps I quickly checked out the arrows and a fully charged shot does 12%. It doesn't matter where you shoot them or how far away they are, the damage will stay the same depending on how long you charged it. You can keep it charged forever unlike Pit.

Something that we might be ignoring about the bombs is all the smoke it creates. Try Z-dropping a bomb, landing in the smoke and then throwing a boomerang out of it. The other players won't see the start up animation and out of the smoke will come an unexpected boomerang. I've done this in a match and it works. Shooting an arrow out of the smoke doesn't work that well because it makes too much noise.
 

fox219

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Analyzing projectile properties

Key
1.title
2.sub title
3.damage%
4.example
5.TL;DR
6.facts

Bombs:
What can I say about these? Every toon uses them constantly; they are what draw people to this midget of ours. Now let me ask you question: how much damage do they take? If you don’t know of the top of your head you might run to wii and do a quick with anyone match. The match starts you pull out a bomb sh and throw it at your opponent it hits and takes 6 damage. Ok you know now. Finish kicking the metaknight’s butt and come say that. Well that’s only partially correct. A fresh, un decayed bomb can take anywhere from 2-7% all depending on the motion the bomb is in when it leaves your hand and the direction it hits in. what I mean by this is there are 3 types of motion a bomb can be in
• Thrown- easy you pushed A
• Fall- z drop
• Drop- you know when you get hit and the bomb falls to the ground but doesn’t explode. Ill also use this for when you place a bomb on the ground
Ok, list of percents and how to get them
• 2%-run up to your opponent sh and let bomb fall~you will get hit
• 3%- in your hand or it was dropped and daired to opponent
• 4%- immediately out of a footstool or while rising but above opponent fall bomb
• 5%-throw in front of opponent
• 6%- throw at opponent form side or underneath
• 7%-thrown bomb hits from above

Now you maybe asking yourself “well how exactly does this help me?”, easy now you know the best way to build damage with bombs. You may also be thinking “so to get 7% I have to jump above my opponent and throw the bomb down? Well what if they dodge it, now im almost helpless because I dint have a safe way to get back to the board and dair is easily punished.”, in order for the bomb to 7% you don’t have to throw it down, you can throw it up and let it hit your opponent on the way down.

For example lets say santi is in a match against tlmsheikant on final destination. Santi is toonlink and tlmsheikant is dk. Santi just knocked dk of the board and ran to the other side. When dk gets back on santi throws a bomb up and rolls out of its blast range. Tlmsheikant has a couple choices: he can approach and risk getting hit by the bomb or stay back and endure a barrage of arrow s and boomerang and a second bomb. Lets say he approaches and shields right as the bomb is about to explode, grab him. Lets say he approaches and side steps, punish that with any quick move move. And I don’t need to say that if he choses to stay away 30% more damage. The bomb takes about 3-4 seconds to fall from a smash throw on the ground use that time to your advantage. Also you don’t have to let the bomb explode as it comes back to the field you can catch 7 different ways.(I think 7 is bombs lucky number lol) Your 5 aerials, dash attack, and just pushing A, allows you to catch an airborne bomb. By throwing up bombs and doing something to the opponent and finishing just in time to catch the bomb again has the potential to be very beneficial to toonlink. For example lets say urdailwater (toonlink) is going against irjon (diddy) on battle field. Water throws the bomb up from the top platform and iron tries to fair him. Water sidesteps and then catches diddy in a bair combo, finishes it with nair, di’s back to the top platform and catches the bomb with another nair. Now think of the situation water has been placed in: His bomb will last about as long as a grenade so iron can try to attack and get away before bomb goes off, but I doubt water will let him. Water can throw the bomb and hope it his or he can throw it up in hope of pulling a 3:10-santi style. If you ever play me in a match if I knock you off the board, 90% I will do this: pull out bomb throw it up, pull out 2nd bomb throw it up, jump catch bomb with nair,fair, bair and depending on where opponent is throw it at opponent, up for fun, down for fun. Water if you saved any replays look for it, irjon if we ever get to play look for it, I always did it as sort of a taunt but I think it may lead to some in game strategies. The many possibilities with this if done accurately are endless. This can lead to some projectile traps we have yet to discover and possibly lead toonlink into higher teirs. I could list a lot more bomb strategies using this but I cant think of any at the moment but fast already listed some different strategies here.
TL;DR: bombs change damage depending on how they’re thrown and playing with bombs can lead to mindgames

Boomerang:
Imo opinion toonlinks moth flexible projectile in terms of the way it travels. The boomerang also changes damage but this has to do with the distance between you and your opponent when you draw it.
• Up really close 11%
• A little more than swords length apart 8%
• Far apart 5%
• Boomerang’s full lenth or on the way back 3%
*if boomerang hits opponent from back where it would normally do 5% or 3% it will still do 8%

The boomerang is good for interrupting opponent’s attacks/ combos/ chaingrabs on its way back. We also use the boomerang on the way back to set up a guaranteed Fsmash. However with the exception of sasuke and rutger have we really experimented with the returning boomerang? It can set up for a variety of attacks. If you’re close enough when the boomerang hits you can follow up with almost any attack. This gives you an opportunity to use some of your lesser used moves or at higher percents go for the kill.For example lobos(tliink) is going against asdioh (kirby). Lobo throws a boomerang behind him and runs behind asdioh. Asdioh does a backwards roll beacuse he thought lobos was going to hit him. Lobos does a dash attack , it hits,returning boomerang hits asdioh right into lobos Usmash for the the win.Something else I noticed how much have we tried to control/realize patterns and effectively use the returning boomerang’s off-paths. What I mean is if the boomerang is coming back and we go out of the way so the boomerang goes past us into some odd way. If we learn how to fully control it, it has the potential to set up major mindgames. Learning to utilize it to its fullest extent will allow us to also create some amazing projectile traps.

TL;DR: boomerangs weird paths, if learned, can help us set up some good mindgames and combos
Arrows:
I really don’t know what to say about these. Their path is predetermined and they do 4% uncharged form all directions. By doing shda you can shoot two arrows in quick succession. For example VietG(tlink) is going against Quivo(luigi). Quivo tries to approach using the tornadoe but vietg cancels it with arrows and follows up with a sh zair. They can change the direction you’re facing as well. I personally cant find anything else at the moment but you might be able to. Just keep trying new things and observing unusual properties.
TL;DR: Idk anything about arrows that isn’t already known


Santi once said that the best toonlink has amazing projectile traps or something to that effect. So where are our traps? A while ago in a thread about board personalities, someone said toonlink’s was “we found a new way to be gay with projectiles”. What’s our new way to be gay cool with projectiles? I go to and read the diddy boards as much as I come to and read the toonlink boards and it seems like more recently, they’ve been advancing their banana game than we’ve been advancing any of our projectiles. More recently I’ve seen chrome pirate come up 4 new things that add to diddy’s game {chrome pirate is a diddy user if you didn’t know), where’s the person adding to our game? The only way toonlink will get better is if we make him better; discover new uses for moves, or something along those lines. We’ve come to far to stop now, Toonlink IS the best character in brawl (diddy is a close 2nd :bigthumbu) and now is the time to prove it.




one day late sorry
nice guide
you're saying tiers are 4 queers. they aren't! mk's best!
 

TLMSheikant

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^ Mk again!? Nice read toondiddy i think this will help TL noobies. And u forgot SH nair arrow cancel. Returning boomerang is sex.
 

Mota

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Good read. Excellent guide for new TLs.
You've got a point, we aren't advancing TLs Projectile game.
But Is there anything left to advance?


Something that we might be ignoring about the bombs is all the smoke it creates. Try Z-dropping a bomb, landing in the smoke and then throwing a boomerang out of it. The other players won't see the start up animation and out of the smoke will come an unexpected boomerang.
Sounds good haha guerilla tactics. Very Shifty I'll try it asap. :)
 

Disfunkshunal

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they aren't! mk's best!
if what i've been thinking about more recently, and will soon do research on, is true then there may be a cure. but thats only if everything goes exactly according to plan
 

Sosuke

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WHY DO PEOPLE QUOTE THE OP?

I swear that gets on my nerves.
 

Disfunkshunal

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Good read. Excellent guide for new TLs.
You've got a point, we aren't advancing TLs Projectile game.
But Is there anything left to advance?
we have barely scratched the surface of what toonlink can do. every character has something that make them and without it would break them.

Snake: tilts
metaknight:speed
Diddy:bananas
Us: take a wild guess

at sasuke it doesnt irratate me that much but it is unneeded

OP: updated
 

SSD

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Speaking of returning boomerangs...
Is the Reverse angle boomerang trick still used like it was in melee?
 

CaliburChamp

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I've done a powerful damage racker combo, it goes like this.
1. Throw boomerang at opponent, it misses the opponent.
2. Short hop, pull out bomb
3. Charge your arrow
4. Release arrow
5. Returning Boomerang hits
6. Throw bomb
7. F-air or N-air to end the combo.

This combo does about 25-30% damage and it helped me alot vs my matches against Snake because your out of his tilt range.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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I'd just like to add about the bomb smoke screen thing; you of course don't need to Z drop it, you can do it any other way (throw it down in midair), so long as you land in the middle of the smoke that gets left behind and avoid the exposion itself. I just find it easier to jump and Z drop at the peak of my jump.

Tomorow ill try to get a full range of arrow values. it just seems like noone ever charges them.
I charge them all the time, whenever I've got time. Like when the boomerangs coming back and you wanna cancel out the lag, this is a perfect time to charge it (depending on where your opponent is). Try charging it whilst moving through the air. You don't even have to charge it up all the way, even a half second of charging increases the damage, speed and knockback of your shot.
 

Shiroi

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Ok guys,
I'm loving TL ever since I've got him. haha
Anyways, with his "PROJECTILES",
In my gameplay I mostly spam arrows and then spam boomerang and some bombs too.
Would you consider it cheap to spam projectiles?
Or do you think it's quite tactical and "Since it was put in, might as well do it." kind of saying?
Btw, is spamming against any rules in tourneys?
I just wanna know. XD
Thanks!
 

TLMSheikant

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Ok guys,
I'm loving TL ever since I've got him. haha
Anyways, with his "PROJECTILES",
In my gameplay I mostly spam arrows and then spam boomerang and some bombs too.
Would you consider it cheap to spam projectiles?
Or do you think it's quite tactical and "Since it was put in, might as well do it." kind of saying?
Btw, is spamming against any rules in tourneys?
I just wanna know. XD
Thanks!
Spamming isnt against tourney rules. But be ready to hear lots of johns. XD
 

TLMarth

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Do bombs do different damage depending on how far they were thrown from, and the hardness of the throw?
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Ok, if anyone's been having trouble throwing your opponents into the returning boomerang as I suggested in a previous post, then I have the answer. The easiest way to do this move is by throwing the boomerang away from your opponent, grabbing them and then throwing them backwards which sends them straight into the returning boomerang and sets them up for whatever you want.

The only problem with this move is it gets harder to do the higher your opponents percent. I would suggest trying it on anything under 70% (keep in mind certain characters will be easier/harder depending on their weight).

There are of course alternatives to throwing the boomerang backwards but backwards is easiest. You can throw it diagonally up and towards your opponent, which will set them up to be thrown forward into it's returning flight path, or you can jump then throw the boomerang which will also result in the same setup. As mention before this will only work on lower percents. Try these tecniques and see what works best for you and the situation.

I hope this helps everyone!
 

Disfunkshunal

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Ok guys,
I'm loving TL ever since I've got him. haha
Anyways, with his "PROJECTILES",
In my gameplay I mostly spam arrows and then spam boomerang and some bombs too.
Would you consider it cheap to spam projectiles?
Or do you think it's quite tactical and "Since it was put in, might as well do it." kind of saying?
Btw, is spamming against any rules in tourneys?
I just wanna know. XD
Thanks!
So far there is no rule against it but i would avoid pure spam. A toonlink who continuall runs from his opponents and then uses projectiles when at a "safe" distance is annoying and very noobish. You will also fet punished once your pattern is realized. However if you mix your projectile game with a good melee game then you should be successful.

Do bombs do different damage depending on how far they were thrown from, and the hardness of the throw?
i dont think they do. i think i tryed it out when i got the other data but im not 100% sure. i have bad memory. Ill get back to you on that though

Lately I've found the SHDA a lot less effective. Many characters, Marth comes to mind, can just swipe the arrows out of the air.
me too. we need to see if there's anything else we can do with them beside shda and quickdraw setups. so far thats about all we have for them. Anyone willing to work on improving arrows for a while? I know fox, sasuke, and rutger are working on boomerang, and that i know of im the only one looking for more out of bombs.
 

Shiroi

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So far there is no rule against it but i would avoid pure spam. A toonlink who continuall runs from his opponents and then uses projectiles when at a "safe" distance is annoying and very noobish. You will also fet punished once your pattern is realized. However if you mix your projectile game with a good melee game then you should be successful.
lol. Thanks. Anyways, just to somewhat describe my tactic. It's kinda of like.. I stop them with arrows, combine with boomerang and add some melee into it. I'm not those hit and run guys. xD
Anyways, thanks for the info everyone and Toondiddy.
I'll try to avoid spamming the B button xD.
 

Alzi

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Really nice information there. I learnt somthing new with the bomb smoke to boomerang. I usually do this but not in that certain way. I would usually once they have KO'ed me i would pull out a bomb run next to them then throw it down so it would hit the floor and create smoke as a distraction then try get a KO in for them. Invincibilty frames would fade just after you hit the bomb on the ground.

Also nice combo CaliburChamp but it would be hard for me since when i do throw a boomerang it always seems to hit my opponents and they never side step dodge it they usually shield it. But i should try that time to time.

 

Disfunkshunal

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I've done a powerful damage racker combo, it goes like this.
1. Throw boomerang at opponent, it misses the opponent.
2. Short hop, pull out bomb
3. Charge your arrow
4. Release arrow
5. Returning Boomerang hits
6. Throw bomb
7. F-air or N-air to end the combo.

This combo does about 25-30% damage and it helped me alot vs my matches against Snake because your out of his tilt range.
sounds good. i forgot to add it yesterday. ill do it now though.
Do bombs do different damage depending on how far they were thrown from, and the hardness of the throw?
they do actually. i got the 5% and 6% wrong. If you smash throw it and they get hit by explosion or bomb iself they take 6%. if you tilt throw(?) or just push a to throw it it, they will take 5%. Fixing it now
lol. Thanks. Anyways, just to somewhat describe my tactic. It's kinda of like.. I stop them with arrows, combine with boomerang and add some melee into it. I'm not those hit and run guys. xD
Anyways, thanks for the info everyone and Toondiddy.
I'll try to avoid spamming the B button xD.
need more bombs. good arrow and boomerang usuage though. you should also use boomerans to disrupt attacks. check out the stickied video thread
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Some things that arn't in the original post about arrows that I should mention:
It does say that you can change your direction with them but dosen't go into much more detail, so I will.
If in mid air you pull out an arrow and directly after that you smash the opposite direction from the way your facing, you will turn around and your momentum will go with you. (What I don't see people doing is charging it and turning around, something I love to do.)
If your running away from someone and you want to turn around and shoot them, then turning around this way isn't the best choice. Instead jump, smash the other direction first (you won't turn around at this point) then hit B. This will make you shoot in the other direction but it won't reverse your momentum. This is much better for spacing. (Again, try charging it every once in a while.)

Random uses for charging:
If you charge and shoot Snake during his Up B recovery, instead of just doing damage it will stop him in his tracks. (charged to 7% only damage, charged to 8% or over, stopped) He will of course be able to use another Up B, so it's up to you whether or not you'll use this and why.
If you charge your shot, then (along with bombs) you'll be able to stop Meta knight's whornado and do damage.

More coming. I hope.
 

Disfunkshunal

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keep it up fox, you're like the only person supporting this thread lol. Ill add your stuff in a minute. i havent been doing all i could *runs to wii with high hopes of finding something new*
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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It's about time someone made a thread like this. And for that I thank you TD.
If it helps, don't bother looking into the arrow left on the ground once you miss everything, It's a dead end, I should know.
Maby you could do me a favour? Try looking into short hopped reverse charged shot arrows. (SHRCSA Now thats a mouthfull) They are possible, just a bit tricky.

Seeya
 

TLMarth

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Okay, so I'm looking at boomerangs a bit.

This will be slightly unpredictable for those who are inexperienced with these boomerang paths.
But they're not really that unpredictable.
The boomerang should not be used primarily for these paths, but for just hitting with the throw rather than the return. These paths are sort of like quickdraw, not suitable alone but good to fit in.

Unless we can find a way to change the trajectory dramatically when the boomerang is behind us.

The two main ways I'm looking at changing the boomerang path are:
Jumping over it as it comes back. (JUMP OVER)
Jumping, then letting it come over you as it comes back. (JUMP AND FALL)

Fast falling after you jump over makes an effect. (FAST FALL AFTER)

It also depends on wether you use short hop or full hop (SH) (FH)

There's a lot of timing stuff, so the possibilities I list here aren't all that you can do.
For example there's this weird thing that happens

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. FAST FALL AFTER. It makes a straight line. Good for hitting behind you in a straight line.

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. It makes a shallow U-shape.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL. It goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL THROUGH PLATFORM, it goes straight down behind you.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER, it goes behind you and up in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER SH. FAST FALL AFTER. Goes a bit up and then straight line.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL SH, it goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes past you and sort of an upside down U.

Throw it down JUMP OVER, it goes straight up behind you.

Throw it down JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes high over you and then goes in a straight line.

Throw it down JUMP AND FAL SH, it goes a bit over you and goes in an upside down shallow U shape.

Also full jump is really good for JUMP AND FALL

On a side note unrelated to projectiles,
fair can be used to send people backwards if TL touches the opponent with his body hitbox. It's not really good because it's not the sword, but w/e. The best use for this is when you're hanging on the edge, and you need to send someone off the edge but you're facing the wrong direction.
And it's probably known.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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This is exactly what we need. We need to harness the power of the return boomerang for one big reason.
It gives us more time to set up a trap. If we use the boomerang like this we can have all three projectiles coming at our opponent at the same time from different angles.
Good work TLMarth.
 

Shiroi

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Thanks again Toondiddy. [It's fun to maybe call you TD. Not making fun of you though. xD]
I stop em' with boomerang too, but i dont really like it since its alittle longer than arrows xD.
But i'll test it out. I need new tactics. xD
Bombs = not much spamming..
(wondering what combos could be made with them.. not counting the one with zair though. TD, wanna propose another tip? =D]
 

Disfunkshunal

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It's about time someone made a thread like this. And for that I thank you TD.
If it helps, don't bother looking into the arrow left on the ground once you miss everything, It's a dead end, I should know.
Maby you could do me a favour? Try looking into short hopped reverse charged shot arrows. (SHRCSA Now thats a mouthfull) They are possible, just a bit tricky.

Seeya
what exactly did you expect to find. i found mindgames and some combos. I have no idea how practical these are though due to lack of people to play. Run away form opponent, and while they chase you SHRCSA. They'll be eating arrow and you may be able to follow up with a nair to Usmash, a fair to quick draw, Uair if they're close enough, zair, or if you have a bomb in hand zair then throw it throw it. you can also do that with a shda or just a regular quickdraw. i'll do some more test either later today or tomorrow

Okay, so I'm looking at boomerangs a bit.

This will be slightly unpredictable for those who are inexperienced with these boomerang paths.
But they're not really that unpredictable.
The boomerang should not be used primarily for these paths, but for just hitting with the throw rather than the return. These paths are sort of like quickdraw, not suitable alone but good to fit in.

Unless we can find a way to change the trajectory dramatically when the boomerang is behind us.

The two main ways I'm looking at changing the boomerang path are:
Jumping over it as it comes back. (JUMP OVER)
Jumping, then letting it come over you as it comes back. (JUMP AND FALL)
too long to quote all, but i read it:)
On a side note unrelated to projectiles,
fair can be used to send people backwards if TL touches the opponent with his body hitbox. It's not really good because it's not the sword, but w/e. The best use for this is when you're hanging on the edge, and you need to send someone off the edge but you're facing the wrong direction.
And it's probably known.
Good Job! I understand and agree with you're saying about not primarily depending on the paths, but they will have their uses. If we learn how to use these in battle we will be unbeatable.
Not really
EDIT: forgot your side note. it is known, i remember viet posting it a while back somewhere. Also i dont think it would be very useful because of how hard it would be to set up. You'd have to be airborne and they'd have to be like right on you without hitting you, but idk we might be ablr to find some set-ups. DO some research tell me what you find.
Thanks again Toondiddy. [It's fun to maybe call you TD. Not making fun of you though. xD]
I stop em' with boomerang too, but i dont really like it since its alittle longer than arrows xD.
But i'll test it out. I need new tactics. xD
Bombs = not much spamming..
(wondering what combos could be made with them.. not counting the one with zair though. TD, wanna propose another tip? =D]
That aint right (reread your quote)

jk. all the projectiles have their uses. you just need to make sure you're not too close when puliing out the boomerang because all the lag, and make sure you're doing an attack or making an off path for the boomerang to follow so you wont have any catching lag. The bombs are very important. I'm not exactly saying spam them but imo they should be you're most used projectile. The bomb has alot of priorty, going through most other projectiles and stopping alot of other moves. They also act as set ups/ follow ups to your other projectiles. Also sometimes they can mean a k.o for you 3:10 in both
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olL1UobnAnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHt0qdXpLvU
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Ok, I have 2 new insane mind blowing techniques.

The reverse boomerang.
You can reverse your momentum when throwing the boomerang in mid air (just like with the arrows). To do this is kinda tricky so you'll have to work on it a bit. Just run and jump in any direction, start throwing the boomerang in the same direction your going but then directly after, (the boomerang hasn't left your hand) smash in the opposite direction. If done correctly you will head in the opposite direction and throw the boomerang which can of course be directed up, down or straight forward. This is a sweet move and you can get some pretty strange flight paths.

Another way to do the reverse arrow (Fade Away Shot).
Ok this way of shooting is in my oppinion the best spacing move Toon link has got so far. It's insanely tricky and makes the reverse boomerang look easy so keep trying. To do this move you need to run in one direction then pivot (start running the other way) but, on the pivot, as soon as you slide at the very start, jump and shoot. The hardest part about this move is jumping at the right time. If done correctly you will do what I like to call, a fade away shot. You'll face and shoot where you came from but continue jumping a long way in the original direction.

If I didn't make enough sense or your having trouble doing it, I 'd be happy to answer any questions.
 

TLMarth

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The boomerang thing reminds me of Lucas' wavebounce.
Also I think boomerang is for sniping. If you're far away you can set it up.
 

Lobos

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That's actually known as B-sticking, not many people use it tho since most people don't want to change the c-stick to specials.
 
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