Analysis of Fox's tools. Any thoughts?

[L33thal]

I've been thinking a lot about Fox's tools (mostly his most common ground game tools), but I can't wrap my head around them. So I've been trying to analyze Fox's moveset to understand how to use his options better.

So far, I feel like running shine is Fox's fastest forward-moving move since Fox has the momentum from running and his shine comes out fast. On the flip side, the shine's hitbox is small and doesn't last a long time, so running shine may be a heavily callout-based move. Fox also needs space to start up his run, so this move may be more mid-range.

Dash dance grab is also really common. This move is really fast because it uses Fox's dash speed, but not as fast as running shine. Therefore, running shine may be a faster poke since you might weave under your opponent's aerials at top speed. The punish/followup is more direct compared to running shine since running shine needs to be followed up with a waveshine or shinegrab punish. Some of the advantages this move has is calling out people in shield as well as having more control over your distance from your opponent. On the other hand, once you put out a grab you're in more lag than running shine and you remain at the same position which could get punished.

Short hop nair is not as fast as the other two options, but it is a lot more meatier--the hitbox is a lot bigger and lasts longer. There is more wiggle room for landing nair, and it can lead to a lot of different followups. You're also covered to some extent if you have the right read since nair is so meaty. So for example, if your opponent is a Marth and he does a short late fair into dash back, and he's expecting run-in grab or running shine from you to punish him, and his intention is to grab you out of your move, you can do a longer nair to catch Marth's movement. So if he turns around and puts out a grab, the hitbox of your nair will beat his grab attempt.

Any thoughts on this? This is just my brainstorming about the usage of different tools in close-range exchanges (not so much to do with baiting, etc.).

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I agree with your analysis on running shine and grab, because of the risk-reward differences of the both you generally use grab if you have a pretty good idea of where they are (for example, they are in shield or you grab their landing or they are cornered) and running shine in the other cases where whiffing is more likely. Sometimes you can get away with weird read grabs when they are incentivized to use options which won't let them punish the grab (full jump, roll, etc...). Running shine and grab are, because of their big threat zones, best fit for approaching.

Another good approaching tool is full jump nair, which just covers a lot of space and is surprisingly low risk a lot of the time because with FF/nonFF and different aerial drifts you can alter your landing slightly and the windows to punish it are already very small because of shine. If they didn't set up their movement specifically to counter it, it is safe most of the time. In rare cases replacing it with bair for punish game reasons or the slightly different hitbox makes sense, but fj bair is more of an anti-approach tool.

Dash forward short hop nair is used more often when you expect your opponent to run in, because the landing is rather predictable and it travels through a lot of space where it can be beat by disjoint, so it is vulnerable to anti-approach tools. Overshooting helps with the landing, but makes the startup more vulnerable in return. The other case where short hop nair is very strong is when the neutral game is reset at a lower range, because then overshoots don't run as much risk of being interrupted.

For dash forward short hop drill it is basically the same thing, but you need to be at an even closer range and its hitbox doesn't provide too many benefits, it can be a good option for punish game reasons though (especially drillgrab although it is difficult) from time to time.

Keep in mind you don't need to always run at your opponent, a lot of your tools (short hop drill, full jump drill, full jump bair, WD up-tilt) are best used without moving forward a lot.