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Q&A Ambitions as a Plumber; A Mario FAQ

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
1,040
Location
Madison, WI
LOL. I'm not online for a few days, and suddenly threads are being tossed to people like free Tootsie-Roll Pops? :laugh: Anyways, Eggz should handle most of the stuff, just because he's Eggz. He has a combo vid and actual skill to his name; I just write lots of stuff. XD I'll help out when I have the time, though.

When it comes to jabs, Mario really, really needs it. Frankly, I'm convinced that Mario's jab game is probably just as critical as his grab game and his combo game--if anything, Mario's about combos, grabs, edgeguarding, and an awesome jab game.

You're supposed to be using jabs extensively, mostly because you should be within jab range anyways. We all know that Mario is a close-range fighter; his entire game revolves around getting those grabs -> combos, and jabs do a godly job of pressuring opponents and opening up those grab/combo opportunities.

The thing is, if you've ever seen Wes' Samus play before, or a high-rushdown/pressure Flaco player, you'll know that jabs are important. Both Wes and decent Flaco players love to pressure with jabs--they'll come in close (usually after some sort of projectile rushdown, but not always) and proceed to jab. Jab into smashes, jab into tilts, jab into spot-dodge into more jabs, jab into dash away/behind them + shffl'd aerials, jab into grabs. . .all sorts of good stuff.

Basically, using jabs can snuff out opponent's attacks, pressure them if they're shielding, and can lead to a whole bunch of nasty stuff (grabs, smashes, tilts, aerials, dashdancing, etc.) simply because the stun time is so good. In short, jabs are essential in leading to other attacks/grabs, and especially help in opening up combo opportunities.

Of course, Mario's projectile rushdown isn't that great, so you have to think of other ways to get in close to initiate your grab game. And that's a whole different topic. But again, jabs are critical for any Mario player, so be sure to incorporate them into your game.

If you're looking for specifics, I can think of:

- jab -> d-smash
- jab -> u-tilt
- jab -> grab
- jab -> jab -> d-smash or u-tilt or grab
- jab -> dash away, dash back -> shffl'd aerial/grab/smash
- jab -> dash through and behind them -> reverse f-smash/dash back + grab/ SHABAWD (this works especially if they're shielding)

That's basic stuff. I'm sure there's other stuff that I've forgotten too; Eggz and whoever else wants to hop in can suggest other things. :chuckle: Just be sure not to get too carried away if the opponent's shielding; if you start using high-lag attacks then they can obviously take advantage of that when they're shielding and shieldgrab you.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
I'm having the same problem right now, but I am starting to get the timing down. Try just going to training mode and practicing either fair or dair then l-cancel into utilt. If done right it will show more than one consecutive hit.
 

Superstar

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
2,351
Location
Miami, Florida
Personally, I think his forward-Air is the easiest to see to L-Cancel, so I practiced that first [ShfflAFA]. Its also has high lag, so its obvious when you L-Cancel.

Neutral and back-air were ok, never needed to L-Cancel up-air, but that down-air can take a while to learn.

Basically, practice in Training mode for 10 min, and basic Shffling/L-Cancel will be learned. Set to 1/4 time for good measure, then move up.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
Superstar, delete some of your pms. You're maxed out and I can't send you any.
 

wuthefwasthat

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
508
Location
La Jolla, San Diego
LOL. I'm not online for a few days, and suddenly threads are being tossed to people like free Tootsie-Roll Pops? :laugh: Anyways, Eggz should handle most of the stuff, just because he's Eggz. He has a combo vid and actual skill to his name; I just write lots of stuff. XD I'll help out when I have the time, though.

When it comes to jabs, Mario really, really needs it. Frankly, I'm convinced that Mario's jab game is probably just as critical as his grab game and his combo game--if anything, Mario's about combos, grabs, edgeguarding, and an awesome jab game.

You're supposed to be using jabs extensively, mostly because you should be within jab range anyways. We all know that Mario is a close-range fighter; his entire game revolves around getting those grabs -> combos, and jabs do a godly job of pressuring opponents and opening up those grab/combo opportunities.

The thing is, if you've ever seen Wes' Samus play before, or a high-rushdown/pressure Flaco player, you'll know that jabs are important. Both Wes and decent Flaco players love to pressure with jabs--they'll come in close (usually after some sort of projectile rushdown, but not always) and proceed to jab. Jab into smashes, jab into tilts, jab into spot-dodge into more jabs, jab into dash away/behind them + shffl'd aerials, jab into grabs. . .all sorts of good stuff.

Basically, using jabs can snuff out opponent's attacks, pressure them if they're shielding, and can lead to a whole bunch of nasty stuff (grabs, smashes, tilts, aerials, dashdancing, etc.) simply because the stun time is so good. In short, jabs are essential in leading to other attacks/grabs, and especially help in opening up combo opportunities.

Of course, Mario's projectile rushdown isn't that great, so you have to think of other ways to get in close to initiate your grab game. And that's a whole different topic. But again, jabs are critical for any Mario player, so be sure to incorporate them into your game.

If you're looking for specifics, I can think of:

- jab -> d-smash
- jab -> u-tilt
- jab -> grab
- jab -> jab -> d-smash or u-tilt or grab
- jab -> dash away, dash back -> shffl'd aerial/grab/smash
- jab -> dash through and behind them -> reverse f-smash/dash back + grab/ SHABAWD (this works especially if they're shielding)

That's basic stuff. I'm sure there's other stuff that I've forgotten too; Eggz and whoever else wants to hop in can suggest other things. :chuckle: Just be sure not to get too carried away if the opponent's shielding; if you start using high-lag attacks then they can obviously take advantage of that when they're shielding and shieldgrab you.
thanks that was really helpful

i had already realized that jabs were immensly important, i just wasnt totally sure about how exactly to follow them up, but that clarifies. i also wanted to know - it seems like i am allowed to c-stick earlier if i pressed down on the analog stick right after i hit a. is that true or is it just me?

and should the usage of the second jab be damage dependent?
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
1,040
Location
Madison, WI
It might be just you. As far as I know, holding down on the control stick doesn't reduce the ending lag of the jab in any way. If it did, bajillions of people would know about it and spam it.

Usage of the second jab depends on a whole bunch of things, not just damage. It's simply there to mix up whatever you're doing when you're in jab/grab range. If you always did one jab -> whatever, then it'll become highly predictable. Adding in a second jab makes you more unpredictable. Plus, adding in a delayed second jab can often throw off an opponent's timing and interrupt whatever spotdodge/aerial/smash they're trying to pull out.
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
Jab -> JC grab is too awesome. Especially with the Ice Climbers :D, but Mario can benefit greatly from it as well.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
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Sep 16, 2005
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Location
Combo Status Island
Also, for the record, the third jab can be used quite efficiently as well.

It sets up space animals for a ledgeguard at like 80+%. So if you cant get anything else in, a triple jab is fine.
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
1,040
Location
Madison, WI
Yeah, I have to agree with Eggz here. I recently started using the jab-jab-kick thing, and it's pretty awesome. At higher percents, the knockback from the kick is sufficient enough so that you don't have to worry about being vulnerable from the lag time. Just be careful not to start spamming it, because in all honesty, Mario has better options out of jabs than the AAA.

The only thing you have to worry about, really, is the fact that if it's crouch cancelled, then you're basically screwed. Never, ever do the kick if the guy's crouch cancelling.

Also, I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but the kick of the AAA combo actually has a tremendously huge hitbox size. If you go into AR and check the hitbox, it actually extends beneath the stage quite a bit, almost as much as his d-air. So you could conceivably use the last hit of the AAA combo to edgeguard, provided you time it right.

Just a random piece of info to throw in there. :laugh:
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
Yes!!!! Please sticky this thread. It is such a good way for n00bs to find out the various Mario techs that will help them OWN their little friendsies. lol
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
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Wow. . .this is DEFINITELY a question for Eggz. He has experience vs. Ka-master, so he should head this one. :laugh:

I'm guessing you have to play a conservative game, don't combo/be aggressive (because you eat sex kicks), play hit-and-run, edgeguard with fireball spikes and cape, and use d-air a lot more than you normally would (better priority/combo potential). Am I right, Eggz?
 
Joined
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By the way, when i said I'd give this to Eggz, and Sticky it, I meant I forgot how to do that, so I'll wait 'till Eggz makes a new one.
 

Dory..?

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
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BURGH!
i didnt really read what everyone said but my question is that what is the key to doing the sabawd?
 
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Try doing the bair on your way up into the air after jumping, so you basically just have to execute the aerial faster.
 

D4rkmario

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
12
Thanks Superstar and Silent wolf i had trouble on that also.

Does anyone know wat to do VS. a spam happy marth; who smams B, >A, AND >B???
 

Superstar

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
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Location
Miami, Florida
I never fought Marths before [No tourneys near me, not allowed to go anyway], but I will try to answer. Of course, when fighting a good Marth, look at Maelstrom's guide, and look at the matchup vs Marth, it explains a lot.

Looking at that Marth, even a simple shield roll would suffice. You could also spotdodge his attacks, except the side B if he knows how to do more than one shot. Oh, and Out of Shield wavedash should work wonders. When he slashes and hits your shield, wavedash into a grab, then start a nasty combo.

Oh, and if he cannot swipe projectiles, then go fireball happy, and camp. He'll come to you.

I'm sure Maelstrom [I found out that means "Whirlpool"] or Eggz would have a WAY better answer though.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
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Combo Status Island
Wow, I wasn't aware there was so much here. D=

Maelstrom, you were pretty much right on Luigi. I actually go fox on that guy >_> but from my still large amount of experience with the matchup ?_?

Don't attack Luigi's shield, as he slides away and can attack you out of it easier than you can attack him.

Go for less combos and more smash attacks. IE instead of f-air grab, do f-air dsmash.

Utilts can't juggle luigi at all, except at VERY low percents (like under 30)
_____
Lets see...grabs vs Luigi:
0% do dthrow utilt full jumped uair falling uair. I'm pretty sure that works. I havn't done the matchup in a while though (Ka and I are VERY bored with it lol)

30% and above go straight into uair juggling. Do it fast enough and luigi can't get out of it till like 70%.

70% and above: dthrow into b-air or n-air
_____________
Ledgeguarding loofeezi:
for ledgeguarding, go for standard bairs and stuff, and cape his over b. Don't try to tech his up-b when your ledgeguarding, otherwise you get trix'd and end up SDing.
_________________________


When recovering, if Luigi is on the ledge, don't try to challenge him. Go above the stage. He's just as good as Mario at ledgeguarding.

If luigi is facing away from the stage, chances are he is going to fastfall a ledgehog. So go above the stage here as well.

If luigi is facing you, he is anticipating that you will recover high, so shoot a bunch of fireballs and go for the ledge.

DI into his utilts and usmashes. DI into luigi for all of his throws to avoid a combo-able trajectory. Rely alot on d-air for your standard approach.

Spacing forward smashes is too good vs loogimonster. They are longer than everything he has, and have more priority, so you can count on hitting him while being safe.

That was a bit unorganized, sorry, but I'm doing this while im in college. I'll post about Marth in a few minutes. XD
 

Eggz

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Going into the marth matchup is too difficult considering my current time and what not, so I'll just tell you how to punish a over smash/B spammy Marth.

Ok. So. A marth who is fsmash spamming you successfully is obviously anticipating a pattern you have. Notice your own pattern, and count on him punishing that pattern. So go in like you normally would for your approach, but then start shielding. He will fsmash/neutral b/whatever. At this point, shield dash, dthrow, dair, uair chain. That simple. Or dsmash/fsmash at higher percents.

Also, since Marth steps in for his fsmash, you can stand just outside of tipper range, wait for him to fsmash, and then fsmash yourself. Or you can stand inside of tipper range, wait for the fsmash, then pivot away from him and fsmash him back. Both of which are key techniques when I fight Marth.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
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Meh, I'll just get some measly warning from Otto. He won't warn me over the ban level cuz hes such a good pal, so im not too worried. </discrespectingmodsafterdoubleposting>
 

zelazon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
87
I love the JJK combo that mario does, cause if you know how to wave dash, you can do the triple hit combo then waveslide into another three hit combo, racking up damage as you go along. You can also do JJKF-smash combo if your fast enough to do it, but I would recommend low percentages, cause the knockback of the kick at high percentages wont connect as they are out of range.

You can also recover from Fair with mario, however, to be safe with it, dont go over the lenth of a normal jump because by the time the attack finishes, you need the second jump to get back within distance of the stage. It takes pratice though, so if you arent used to recovering from a Fair, dont try it. You can also Fair sweetspotters if the timing right, so SH the Fair as soon as they come back to the edge (doesnt work with fox/falco).

also know that when you do the Fair, you can DI it so if your not in the right position, you'll move to get them.
 

D4rkmario

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
12
Thanks Eggz, That cleared things up great. :chuckle:

Time to go kick MARTH butt!

*Later that day*....thanks I still lost but at least he only 1 stocked me!! :laugh:

now i have to practice those combos more..... THANKS AGAIN!
 

Evil_MARIO

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
20
Going into the marth matchup is too difficult considering my current time and what not, so I'll just tell you how to punish a over smash/B spammy Marth.

Ok. So. A marth who is fsmash spamming you successfully is obviously anticipating a pattern you have. Notice your own pattern, and count on him punishing that pattern. So go in like you normally would for your approach, but then start shielding. He will fsmash/neutral b/whatever. At this point, shield dash, dthrow, dair, uair chain. That simple. Or dsmash/fsmash at higher percents.

Also, since Marth steps in for his fsmash, you can stand just outside of tipper range, wait for him to fsmash, and then fsmash yourself. Or you can stand inside of tipper range, wait for the fsmash, then pivot away from him and fsmash him back. Both of which are key techniques when I fight Marth.
Thanks Eggz that helped me also.

Thanks
 

zelazon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
87
I'm pretty efficent in all of my attack, however, i faced a good marth who shfflafa the hell out of me... does anyone know what I can do to get past this so I can hit him?
 

SeanTurner_26

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
19
If I may say so myself, this is a great thead, brilliant idea. :-)

I recently picked up Mario after watching a few videos, and noticing how much you can improve his recovery from the way that it is normally, standard if you will.

I think my biggest issue is getting hits off when playing against an opponent who has longer reach then Mario. I understand that this is a rather vague question, and maybe even a little pointless. None the less what do you guys recommend? DashDancing until the attacker is suffering from lag time?

Just for a little background, I can Shffl, wavedash inconstantly, and some of the other easier techniques.

--- Sean
 

Superstar

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
2,351
Location
Miami, Florida
Finally, I have two questions to ask.

First, I just picked up a secondary, Pikachu, and I found out about his Fair to D-Smash combo. I tried it out as Mario using Nair-> D-smash, and it seemed to work. Since I have not seen it in Maelstrom's guide, I never go to tournaments at all [man, I wish I could], and every move you figure out at home has already been in tournaments before, is this move worth using, or is it too risky in real combat, with better alternatives?

Second, my brother uses 2 characters, Pikachu and Link. What are the best percentages to do SHFFLAUA brown Mario style, and which is the best launcher. Actually, my brother uses Jigglypuff as well, but you can't do that move on her.
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
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Madison, WI
Fighting Ranged/High-Priority Characters

For the whole "fighting against ranged characters" question, it's mostly a matter of spacing. First off, you should be relatively familiar with your own range (namely f-smash, shffl'd u-airs, b-airs, u-tilts and f-tilt since those are your best-ranged attacks) and the range of your opponent. If you don't know how much range Marth's f-air or f-tilt or f-smash is, you're not going to be as efficient when it comes down to avoiding/evading tippers.

As a sidenote, you want to learn how to DI Marth's hits too. . .DI away from f-airs, and behind his u-tilts. That usually screws up his juggling.

Anyways, back to ranging. You want to avoid his hits, and try to get inside tipper range so you can grab and start dishing out some (limited) damage. Dashdancing, of course, is always a decent option since you can wavedash/jump/shffl from it and space yourself from the opponent that way. Waveshielding works wonders as well, as you can approach safely. Out-of-shield-wavedashing is also a good idea right after a shielded hit (usually f-smash), and wavegrabbing-out-of-shield is also effective. Rolling is actually useful in a ranged-character matchup because you can get behind the opponent while avoiding their frontal assault. . .just don't be predictable with it. Spot-dodging is also useful for avoiding hits.

Basically, you got a whole list of stuff you can do to avoid hits. What you have to do against ranged opponents is basically avoid them for as long as possible, and look for openings. Add some pressure too, while you're avoiding hits so you create some openings--mid-range fireballs, SHABAWDs, wavetilts (f-tilt and u-tilt are really good for this), limited shffls (d-air is good for this because of the relatively high priority). . .combine this with your whole evasive routine, and you have a game plan for ranged fighters.

Realize, though, that you have to mix and match depending on what the ranged opponent is doing. Sometimes, like with Marth and Peach, you have to focus more on the evasive and less on the make-your-own-openings, since one hit by them usually means you're screwed. Other times, when you see that the opponent isn't ranging properly, or that they're bad at dealing with the pressure you apply, you can go all out and be aggressive.

As another sidenote, Marth, Peach and Samus (all ranged characters, the 3 of them) can't really be combo'd reliably. Marth can break out with f-air, and both Peach and Samus can break out with n-air. With these 3 characters, you mostly want to settle for very short combos (i.e. d-throw -> n-air), unless you notice that the opponent is too stupid to break out of shffl'd u-airs.

Although the Silv/Eggz combo of d-throw -> full-jumped rising d-air -> immediate u-air fastfalled -> land, then shffl'd u-airs works against floaties. Sometimes. Depending, again, on how well the opponent can time their combo breakers, and how well they can DI.
 
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