alternate movesets for characters...

[BronzeGreekGod]

I really would love for Sakurai to refine the whole customizable movesets for characters, and make moveset options that really make sense for the character. Some of the following ideas are gona be possibly a bit too ambitious but I feel like some could be doable.

For example, characters like Falco, a lot of people loved his melee moveset. It would be great to be able to customize some moves to recreate that moveset, or for Sakurai to simply offer that option in the selection screen (like a buton that switches moveset options). Also, someone like wario could work a lot better if his side b was a body check rather than the bike (which imo that is a dumb move).

A bit crazier, toon link could have a moveset that represents WW and his other games more. Like he could use the deku leaf, and maybe the skull hammer.

2 of the more ambitious things I'd like to see are young link having a majoras mask moveset where he can swap masks with down b, and of course the biggest most important one, ganondorf. Ganondorf NEEDS a decloned option in ultimate. It's probably far fetched, but if it's ever possible, it's right now. This game is breaking a lot of rules and norms we've seen in past smash games, so I feel like this could really be possible.

I know this is getting my hopes too high lol. But man its smash ultimate. Its gota go the extra mile!

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Custom moves should have been kept and used for alt characters costumes, custom characters, etc.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I have two opposing opinions of this:

1. Smash 4's specials system-- aside from Miis --was garbage, and I never want anything even remotely similar to it to ever taint Smash ever the **** again.
2. Alt. movesets could work.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I have two opposing opinions of this:

1. Smash 4's specials system-- aside from Miis --was garbage, and I never want anything even remotely similar to it to ever taint Smash ever the **** again.
2. Alt. movesets could work.

Ya I'm more leaning towards to alt movesets that are actually thought out. I think the biggest issue with the custom moves in smash 4 was that they were generic. There were some smart additions but lots were just the same moves with slight differences. If there are custom moves they should be significantly different. I hope this happens.

Custom moves should have been kept and used for alt characters costumes, custom characters, etc.

What do u mean exactly? I'm saying there should be completely alternate movesets for some characters.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Ya I'm more leaning towards to alt movesets that are actually thought out. I think the biggest issue with the custom moves in smash 4 was that they were generic. There were some smart additions but lots were just the same moves with slight differences. If there are custom moves they should be significantly different. I hope this happens.


What do u mean exactly? I'm saying there should be completely alternate movesets for some characters.

One Earthbound character could cover Anna, Ness, Lucas, etc. with a few signature moves switched out for each.

As for different movesets completely, I would support that, at least in cases such as making Roy a Marth clone with a fire sword moveset or Ganondorf with an Executioner's Blade moveset and a darknut sword moveset.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

One Earthbound character could cover Anna, Ness, Lucas, etc. with a few signature moves switched out for each.

As for different movesets completely, I would support that, at least in cases such as making Roy a Marth clone with a fire sword moveset or Ganondorf with an Executioner's Blade moveset and a darknut sword moveset.

Ganondorf needs his oot boss battle moveset. Especially since they went through the trouble of making his model based on oot. That's one thing that makes me feel like it's possible for him to have an alt moveset.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Oh yea and I'd also love to have the option to play with characters' past movesets who's movesets were changed in more recent smash itterations. That would probably be the more likely option to be added, but it would be a perfect excuse to give characters like ganon and the links compley new alt movesets.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Do you guys think alternative movesets are in any way in the spectrum of possibility for this game?

 

[Quillion]

BronzeGreekGod , please: I know I'm not a mod, but don't bump your thread repeatedly like that. It makes the thread look ugly and it's a bad reflection on you since it makes you look desperate and/or obsessed.

That being said, I do want alternate movesets too. Not like Smash 4's special customs, but more akin to Omega Mode characters in the later editions of Street Fighter 4. I can think of several alternate movesets already:

• and : Uses their hammers.
• : Uses a giant reflex hammer to match Mario.
• : Uses a sword, uses a beam whip
• and : Uses a spear
• : Uses a rapier
• : Uses his sword, uses his magic
• and : Uses a blade, uses a palm, uses a staff
• : Uses a spear, uses a heavy claymore
• : Uses her harp to cast magic
• : Uses a hammer
• : Gets out of his Clown Car and fights hand-to-hand
• : Uses the Great Fairy Sword
• : Uses the Light Bow for projectile normals

So yes, there are a metric ton of possibilities to give old characters new sets of toys to play with. And I agree that Smash 4's custom system was really underwhelming since the moves were just changed up versions of the moves that already existed.

And I really have to appreciate this growing movement to revamp the veterans. Originally, it was limited to Ganondorf, but it seems that more and more people want to see old characters play in new ways. And I support this; I want this as well, and they should absolutely offer these alternate movesets as updates or DLC.

Or... they can just do that in the ground-up reboot that Sakurai considered. Whatever works better.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Movesets would likely never have the option of being reverted to old ones. That said all signs so far point to custom moves being dropped. As for Ganondorf, I could have lived without the sword honestly.

 

[Quillion]

Movesets would likely never have the option of being reverted to old ones. That said all signs so far point to custom moves being dropped. As for Ganondorf, I could have lived without the sword honestly.

I know, his sword is just incredibly tacked on just to appease the complainers, yet it still manages to infuriate them because they consider it "not enough." Meanwhile, the people who wanted Ganondorf to stay as he is are mad because it clashes with what they've built up since Melee, and it doesn't fit with his whole playstyle either.

But that's why we want alternative movesets for existing characters. If Sora is that pressed for new character ideas, they can give different toggleable movesets to existing characters so that they can play differently. Giving Ganondorf a full sword moveset that can be switched out on the CSS seems like a better idea.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I just wanted to add that I throughly dislike Gabon using his sword for his smash attacks. Hell I didn’t like it when he lost his Gerudo dragon upper.

I need elbows and kicks so my opponent knows that I beat the living **** out of you.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

BronzeGreekGod , please: I know I'm not a mod, but don't bump your thread repeatedly like that. It makes the thread look ugly and it's a bad reflection on you since it makes you look desperate and/or obsessed.

That being said, I do want alternate movesets too. Not like Smash 4's special customs, but more akin to Omega Mode characters in the later editions of Street Fighter 4. I can think of several alternate movesets already:

• and : Uses their hammers.
• : Uses a giant reflex hammer to match Mario.
• : Uses a sword, uses a beam whip
• and : Uses a spear
• : Uses a rapier
• : Uses his sword, uses his magic
• and : Uses a blade, uses a palm, uses a staff
• : Uses a spear, uses a heavy claymore
• : Uses her harp to cast magic
• : Uses a hammer
• : Gets out of his Clown Car and fights hand-to-hand
• : Uses the Great Fairy Sword
• : Uses the Light Bow for projectile normals

So yes, there are a metric ton of possibilities to give old characters new sets of toys to play with. And I agree that Smash 4's custom system was really underwhelming since the moves were just changed up versions of the moves that already existed.

And I really have to appreciate this growing movement to revamp the veterans. Originally, it was limited to Ganondorf, but it seems that more and more people want to see old characters play in new ways. And I support this; I want this as well, and they should absolutely offer these alternate movesets as updates or DLC.

Or... they can just do that in the ground-up reboot that Sakurai considered. Whatever works better.

Lol sorry, I was just bored last night.

Those are some pretty good ideas. I've definitely thought about Mario using a hammer, and bowser jr could be a faster version of bowser. For pit I was thinking more he could use his original moveset, I actually really dislike his new one. It's odd to me they added dark Pitt without giving one of them the original moveset. But what u sugested sounds cool too.

When did Sakurai say something about a ground up reboot?

Movesets would likely never have the option of being reverted to old ones. That said all signs so far point to custom moves being dropped. As for Ganondorf, I could have lived without the sword honestly.

What signs lead u to believe that custom movesets are dropped? And I mean custom movesets should be dropped lol. We're talking about alternate movesets moreso than custom here. If anything, I was thinking since this is smash ultimate, being able to use older movesets could be a small possibility. And since ganon was only a clone due to time limitations in the first place, this is the time he can finally get his own moveset (since this game is going so above and beyond in every way and breaking so many old habbits).

Giving ganon his sword was definitely the wrong move if that's where it ends. He should have had his original moveset for the old moveset fans, and 100percent just had a full alt moveset. That's the only way to make people happy.

 

[Rikka]

Do you guys think alternative movesets are in any way in the spectrum of possibility for this game?

I don't. I don't think the custom special system is coming back, so hard to believe they switch to the more work intensive full difference system. But hey, I wouldn't mind being wrong.

 

[Crystanium]

Well, rather than customizing movesets, I think some characters could be slightly altered so that their moveset is canonical. Consider Donkey Kong. His up special has always been that spinning attack. Why, though? He's not Dixie Kong. It'd make sense for Dixie Kong, but with Donkey Kong, his up special should be changed to Barrel Cannon. It can be rotated to a diagonal left or right, or just fired upward. When Donkey Kong is launched, he'd have super armor immediately at the beginning, which would then be removed. It would allow for Donkey Kong to still hit his opponent. Of course, it wouldn't be entirely useful if used on stage, although one could try to use it on the stage and hit nearby opponents, allowing a multi-hit that could potentially kill.

 

[OmnioxX]

As long as Kirby is able to be Master Kirby owo

 

[Union of Darkness]

What signs lead u to believe that custom movesets are dropped? And I mean custom movesets should be dropped lol. We're talking about alternate movesets moreso than custom here. If anything, I was thinking since this is smash ultimate, being able to use older movesets could be a small possibility. And since ganon was only a clone due to time limitations in the first place, this is the time he can finally get his own moveset (since this game is going so above and beyond in every way and breaking so many old habbits).

Giving ganon his sword was definitely the wrong move if that's where it ends. He should have had his original moveset for the old moveset fans, and 100percent just had a full alt moveset. That's the only way to make people happy.

The fact that customs haven't been mentioned in any capacity makes me think they're out. "Alternate", "custom", I don't differentiate. They're movesets separate from the default. I don't think the cloned fighters will ever have 100% unique movesets. We hope for this every time and it never pans out. All I can hope for is that Ganondorf isn't absolute bottom tier for the 3rd time.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

The fact that customs haven't been mentioned in any capacity makes me think they're out. "Alternate", "custom", I don't differentiate. They're movesets separate from the default. I don't think the cloned fighters will ever have 100% unique movesets. We hope for this every time and it never pans out. All I can hope for is that Ganondorf isn't absolute bottom tier for the 3rd time.

I think there are still gona be a lot of secrets to unviel before release. At least I'm hoping. Maybe alternate movesets are a tall order tho. Fingers crossed for dlc lol.

 

[Quillion]

When did Sakurai say something about a ground up reboot?

Here.

He didn't just say he wanted to recreate all the characters from the ground up; he actually considered changing the formula entirely!

As revealed in a recent Famitsu column, Sakurai apparently considered changing up the formula for the Super Smash Bros. series this time around. Ultimately (pun intended), he opted to follow pre-existing game systems rather than creating new ones. Had he not done this, Sakurai revealed that the roster might only be a third of its current size.

But in the end, they just decided to stick with what's established and even recycle the assets from Smash 4.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Here.

He didn't just say he wanted to recreate all the characters from the ground up; he actually considered changing the formula entirely!



But in the end, they just decided to stick with what's established and even recycle the assets from Smash 4.

Oh that is very interesting.. and I wonder what it really means. I really would not be wanting to see a revamp of what smash bros is. Its already different enough from what it started as lol.

I also really don't know why he hasn't taken time to develop more game modes besides modes revolving around fighting either since he really likes trying new things. He can do so many things with the smash engine, but his thought is - lets remake the whole thing and change what people love? Lol. People want to go back to melee, never mind changing it more. And there could be so many fun modes using smashes engine as I highlighted here: https://smashboards.com/threads/wha...uld-you-like-to-see-in-smash-ultimate.457409/

Theres so much potential for so much diverse fun to be had. He really likes to start from scratch and that's such a silly thing to do. Thank GOD he finally used assets from a previous game. That's how it should be from now on.

 

[BonafideFella]

If recreating movesets ever does become reality, they should give you an option of six available moves to mix and match into your standard four-move moveset. (I.e, Mario keeps his current four specials, but has the option of swapping moves out with Mario Tornado or throwing Cappy. Hell, maybe if you're feeling risky, you could map them to different inputs.)
Veterans get a minor yet astute touch-up, while newcomers get more original moves. Go figure.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

If recreating movesets ever does become reality, they should give you an option of six available moves to mix and match into your standard four-move moveset. (I.e, Mario keeps his current four specials, but has the option of swapping moves out with Mario Tornado or throwing Cappy. Hell, maybe if you're feeling risky, you could map them to different inputs.)
Veterans get a minor yet astute touch-up, while newcomers get more original moves. Go figure.

I think that would be a mess for balancing. Providing alternate movesets in full would be best for that reason. I do think swapping out moves would be cool too, but I could see that causing problems

 

[Boartobewild]

I think that would be a mess for balancing. Providing alternate movesets in full would be best for that reason. I do think swapping out moves would be cool too, but I could see that causing problems

I do fully agree that it's gonna be impossible to accomadate/give every character alternate playstyles/movesets, based on the fact that a lot of chars are already reaching pretty far to have just one full moveset, but you could just as easily design slightly different moves for existing chars and give them to other chars from their canon/series as either Echo fighters or even semi clones. For example, make silghtly bigger more disjointed hitboxes for wario, make similair yet different specials, give him lighter weight, floatier attributes and Voila, you have Waluigi.

Giving Ganon's moveset to Black shadow (bull) or even Blood falcon is however, where I draw the line though.

First of, how could we possibly give the current most hype and best moveset so far, with his swordsmashes and other redesigned/reimagined Melee moves for his overall leaner aesthetic design and more dark magic oriented moves, to an uninteresting, bland, absolutely cliché preschool kid's idea of a Saturday morning cartoon villain, lump of a character like BLACK SHADOW?! Not to mention his even less inspired evil twin minion of Cpt. Falcon!!!

Does anybody seriously want to tell me that they honestly would prefer playing Ganon's moveset on someone like Black Shadow? Do most supporters of this dumb idea even know what the character is like in his own series, or played any game that featured him with any semblance of personality?

The only explaination I can come up with is, that people are under the absolutely baffling assumption/belief that Ganon is more likely to get his own proper moveset, if it gets pawned off on someone like those two sorry excuses for character arche-types. I'm not sure whose bright idea it was to come up with that idea, but I imagine it going something like this, when Smash 4 came out; " What?! Ganon is still the same and still has no originial moveset? How can we convince Sakurai, to change this for the next game ? Oh, maybe the reason Ganon still has this completely unfitting moveset, is bc he stole/took it from Captain Falcon! Is there anybody else from his series we could give it to instead, who fits the role of a stronger more muscular/burly villain? Let's see........Oh, there is! Black Shadow!!! OoO Perfect! Make it so!"
And thus this cancerous idea came to be >_>

Well, let me all tell you something...
Hardly anybody, but especially Nintendo give any **** about F-zero as a franchise, so it's not gonna happen anyway. If it had been popular enough, or worth a shot to receive another game it would have gotten one by now, bc you can hardly get as iconic and recognisable as the Captain himself.

I don't get nor want to try to comprehend, why people believe,assume that Ganon couldn't get at least another alternate, preferably different game represantation (Ww or Hw anybody?), when we currently have 3 different Links from 3 respective titles!

It's only a matter of convincing Sakurai, by pestering him or making our opinion heard loud, clear and long enough for him to finally relent, like he did for Ridley and Villager.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I do fully agree that it's gonna be impossible to accomadate/give every character alternate playstyles/movesets, based on the fact that a lot of chars are already reaching pretty far to have just one full moveset, but you could just as easily design slightly different moves for existing chars and give them to other chars from their canon/series as either Echo fighters or even semi clones. For example, make silghtly bigger more disjointed hitboxes for wario, make similair yet different specials, give him lighter weight, floatier attributes and Voila, you have Waluigi.

Giving Ganon's moveset to Black shadow (bull) or even Blood falcon is however, where I draw the line though.

First of, how could we possibly give the current most hype and best moveset so far, with his swordsmashes and other redesigned/reimagined Melee moves for his overall leaner aesthetic design and more dark magic oriented moves, to an uninteresting, bland, absolutely cliché preschool kid's idea of a Saturday morning cartoon villain, lump of a character like BLACK SHADOW?! Not to mention his even less inspired evil twin minion of Cpt. Falcon!!!

Does anybody seriously want to tell me that they honestly would prefer playing Ganon's moveset on someone like Black Shadow? Do most supporters of this dumb idea even know what the character is like in his own series, or played any game that featured him with any semblance of personality?

The only explaination I can come up with is, that people are under the absolutely baffling assumption/belief that Ganon is more likely to get his own proper moveset, if it gets pawned off on someone like those two sorry excuses for character arche-types. I'm not sure whose bright idea it was to come up with that idea, but I imagine it going something like this, when Smash 4 came out; " What?! Ganon is still the same and still has no originial moveset? How can we convince Sakurai, to change this for the next game ? Oh, maybe the reason Ganon still has this completely unfitting moveset, is bc he stole/took it from Captain Falcon! Is there anybody else from his series we could give it to instead, who fits the role of a stronger more muscular/burly villain? Let's see........Oh, there is! Black Shadow!!! OoO Perfect! Make it so!"
And thus this cancerous idea came to be >_>

Well, let me all tell you something...
Hardly anybody, but especially Nintendo give any **** about F-zero as a franchise, so it's not gonna happen anyway. If it had been popular enough, or worth a shot to receive another game it would have gotten one by now, bc you can hardly get as iconic and recognisable as the Captain himself.

I don't get nor want to try to comprehend, why people believe,assume that Ganon couldn't get at least another alternate, preferably different game represantation (Ww or Hw anybody?), when we currently have 3 different Links from 3 respective titles!

It's only a matter of convincing Sakurai, by pestering him or making our opinion heard loud, clear and long enough for him to finally relent, like he did for Ridley and Villager.

Dude relax lol. Ganons original clone moveset shuld be black bull. The new one with the crammed in sword smashes is nothing special. A sword ganon should actually use the sword for the full moveset. Those smashes are just Ike's attacks. Ganons clone moveset isnt even his moveset. You're just attached to it cause thats how it started. That moveset literally does not matter what character its over. For all i care it could be a character named marr-flarrm from the planet zorben.

But if you really **** your pants over it, ive suggested alt movesets for that reason. Give certain characters a toggle so that they can have alternate movesets. Then ganon can have his old stupid clone moveset, and he can have his actual ganondorf moveset that he should have had since day 1.

 

[Dixie Kong]

How about Donkey Kong being able to use his coconut gun?

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

How about Donkey Kong being able to use his coconut gun?

id be more into him being able to pull out barrels and throw them at will cause the coconut gun is kinda stupid lol and diddy already has a similar gun.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main problem with alternate movesets would be having to make new animations, further increasing development time. There's probably a good reason why almost every custom special move in Smash 3DS / Wii U reused the same animations that the default specials used.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

The main problem with alternate movesets would be having to make new animations, further increasing development time. There's probably a good reason why almost every custom special move in Smash 3DS / Wii U reused the same animations that the default specials used.

DLC.. Orr possibly Sakurai already had plans for this with any luck.. who knows? It's smash ultimate, so im thinking bringing back old movesets makes sense for the theme of the game, and giving ganon his own moveset makes sense too since since he was only ever a clone due to time constraints.

A few ppl said there's been no mention of custom movesets so that means there's no way it's happening.. but maybe that's cause Sakurai is hiding something big like this.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A few ppl said there's been no mention of custom movesets so that means there's no way it's happening.. but maybe that's cause Sakurai is hiding something big like this.

So far, we don't know if custom specials are dead or not. We'll just have for the next Nintendo Direct, if one is ever planned during the next set on months.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I had an idea similar to this featuring having full fledged movesets of a Blade which will focus on balance and range with a projectile or two while having no reflector, and a Cannon that focuses on power and area control despite low speed. Palutena/First Blade and EZ Cannon will be used respectively.
can have his Staff (precision) and that Ogre Club (power) instead for unique movesets to differentiate the two further while both still have their Bow moveset.

 

[Khao]

The one and only problem with this is...

If you have enough time to create different alternate movesets for so many characters, wouldn't it be better to put all those new moves into a brand new character instead?

I mean, you could put a massive amount of work into making a Melee version of Falco... Or you put all that work into adding another Star Fox character to fill in that role and expand Star Fox representation. Because as-is, unless these alternate movesets are purposely unbalanced and not meant for serious play, they are probably more work just going ahead and adding an Echo Fighter.

 

[Quillion]

IMO, I think it would be a good idea to just make alternate movesets specifically for the characters who need it.

Smash is clearly strapped for first-party Nintendo characters who are major enough to be fighters. ARMS is the last major Nintendo franchise not represented by a playable character.

BUT, I can see that there are is a lot of demand for certain characters to be portrayed in new ways. People want Link to use his BotW wewapons, people want Ganondorf to use his sword and/or magic, people want Pit and Dark Pit to use their Uprising weapons, and people want to see Kirby use moves from his other abilities.

There's no need to overdo it with every character in the roster. Who wants Pikachu, Villager, ROB, WFT, Mario, or Peach to play differently?

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

The one and only problem with this is...

If you have enough time to create different alternate movesets for so many characters, wouldn't it be better to put all those new moves into a brand new character instead?

I mean, you could put a massive amount of work into making a Melee version of Falco... Or you put all that work into adding another Star Fox character to fill in that role and expand Star Fox representation. Because as-is, unless these alternate movesets are purposely unbalanced and not meant for serious play, they are probably more work just going ahead and adding an Echo Fighter.

Well the last game already had custom moves which gave us a tonn of new moves for every character (most of which sucked tbh). I'm suggesting a more elegant option. Also, changing only a couple of moves for an alt moveset like for Falco and pit is much simpler than making a new character. Especially for Falco who would use 100% the same assets.

As for making a new moveset for ganon and young (masks) link, that IS making a new character. And are you gona tell me you don't want those characters?
But I'd also add, ganon would have the same bone structure and model, so lotsa time is saved there.

 

[The_Killah29]

My idea for a link. He could be a new character altogether instead of a remake, IMO.
>Link (1987)
-Looks like this: http://tinypic.com/r/1zzgz7o/6
-Has link's A button moves
-B+Down is the raft, he slides along the ground riding a small wave
-B has Link (1987) do an overhead downward swing of his hammer and causes the hit player to become buried
-B+Up makes Link (1987) become a Fairy and performs a dash like Lucario's B+Up, but has a fixed range and does no damage
-B+Side shoots a slow-ish fireball forward using the Magical Rod and Magic Book
-Grab is now close ranged using the Handy Gloves/Power Bracelet in the animation
-Final Smash is same as Ultimate Link but no explosions and it insta KO's if percentage is above 100%