Alright, I managed to grab that fox.....now what do I do with it?!?

[bubbaking]

So, I just started this thread to bring about discussion as to what Samus can do to Spacees specifically, and fast fallers in general, off of a grab. Personally, I don't know much. All I usually do is uthrow>nair or dthrow>wd>dsmash. I'm hoping the info provided in future posts also pertains to C.Falcon.

Edit: So here is what we've managed to come up with so far though our collaborative efforts:
uthrow>nair>followup (especially on Falcon)
dthrow>wd>dsmash/dtilt (might be reliant on tech chase, works best around mid %'s on fast fallers)
uthrow>dair (tech chase on platforms)
uthrow>fair>followup (probably on platforms)
uthrow>dash attack>followup (dash attack)
uthrow>charged shot (might require jump)
dthrow>charged shot (except for techs towards Samus)[guaranteed on non-fast fallers at mid to high %'s]
uthrow>dair>FF uair juggle>grab>uthrow>FF uair>jab (only on Falcon)
uthrow>dair>bomb>dair>regrab>uthrow>charged shot (must reset to work)
uthrow>dair>bomb>waveland>utilt>followup (style points, must reset to work)
uthrow>bomb>nair (bomb below opponent, any bomb hit should link into nair at all %'s)
uthrow>bair (sweetspot if possible)
dthrow>nair/bair (floaty chars at most %'s, Jiggs at all %'s, Roy at high %'s, lolz?)

Optimal percents at which these combos work best would be nice. As you may have noticed, some of the later longer combos are actually compositions based on the earlier basic combos. Feedback is appreciated! Let's continue this discussion so that we may bring Samus to new heights! ^_^

 

[Pi]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
upthrow is usually the most solid guarantee'd follow up throw

you can go for the tech chase on a platform with a dair

though at some %'s if they go toward the top platform you can't always reach w/ a dair

aerial interupt into ________ ur best bet there

alternatively, if you can, you can try out fair into ________ if they're in a position whereby you can hit them w/ the fair and then l cancel on the platform right after

with falcon, often times you can weak nair into ________ after the upthrow, and at higher %'s on the dthrow you can follow it up directly with a move if they don't DI away from you

dthrow on spacies at i would say mid %'s offers a pretty good chance of a tech chase follow up, but requires a guess, whereas upthrow is more guarantee'd

and there is always the bomb -> nair combo if they choose not to DI

on FD i'm partial to upthrow dair follow ups on players who don't tech, or aren't expecting it, but it might not be the most practical decision

also there may be room to upthrow and dair onto platform stages, like, before they land, or you can go for the tech chase dair, or both

i also think there may be room for upthrow -> dash attack at some %'s, which could lead into mor edash attacks or at least a tech chase follow? on spacies at least i'll have to work w/ it more, but they are in hitstun for a very long time and often times opt not to jump

a lot of players, better ones, will opt not to jump when a follow up seems guarantee'd, because there is a risk in getting hit out of it which suuucks

so you can count on that after upthrow a lot of times

and players who do jump, i use to do this but stopped more recently idk why

but you can upthrow, and space and time ur nair not to hit them until they are out of hitstun, so if they are trying to jump they will jump into your nair
and if they aren't trying to jump you can FF it

so unless they FF out of their hitstun/tumble ur going to hit them, and if they jump u'll hit them as well

though often times they are at a low % when this is the case so might not lead into much

just another non guarantee'd ofllow up to play off of player habits though

 

[bubbaking]

aerial interupt into ________ ur best bet there

alternatively, if you can, you can try out fair into ________ if they're in a position whereby you can hit them w/ the fair and then l cancel on the platform right after

with falcon, often times you can weak nair into ________ after the upthrow, and at higher %'s on the dthrow you can follow it up directly with a move if they don't DI away from you

If I may ask, what exactly does "__________" mean? :\

 

[Pi]

i was using _______ instead of listing a specific move because there are many you can choose to follow up with, some times you can only land a dsmash, or a tilt, or a jab, other times u have time for a fsmash or a dtilt, or an uptilt


it varries too much for me to list a specific move, u kinda have to weigh your options at that specific instance and go for what you're confident will land first and foremost, then you can try and pick what is the best combo/follow up option you can land

 

[KirbyKaze]

up throw > beam

 

[MonkUnit]

_______ means any move to follow up with.

 

[Violence]

Darrell likes uthrow dair onto platform-> techchase pressure.

I prefer uthrow fair into stuff, because at the least, you're doing a ton of damage and keeping them in a combo-y position.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, I remember that dthrow>charged shot works on fast fallers (and maybe regular fallers?) if they don't tech or if they tech in place or away from you but not if they tech behind Samus.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

sometimes you can get off dthrow dtilt (x2 even).

if you want to be extra fancy, you can try uthrow --> dair --> ff uair juggle/interrupt --> grab --> uthrow --> ff uair --> jab... something like that. it only works on falco (or was it falcon?) and on certain low percents.

i think it was falcon.

 

[Pi]

hm i wonder how reliable uair thunders is...

 

[MonkUnit]

Thunder? Do you mean upB?

 

[bubbaking]

I am also confused as to the identity of this "thunders interrupt". It can't be upB cuz I've always seen it used contextually w/ certain aerials (and I think I even saw the term 'bomb thunder' once). Can anyone clarify what this "thunder" term means?

 

[Pi]

the thunders combo
or thunders

is just using a weak move to force a neutral get up from a missed tech

like jiggs jab resetting, or falco laser resetting
etc. etc.

most moves are not true thunders, but moves that are weak, if you catch the opponent not holding a direction, often do force the neutral get up

 

[bubbaking]

Ah, I see. So a thunder is a reset that forces a NEUTRAL getup? I'm guessing regular resets could allow rolling getups?

 

[Pi]

some moves, at some %'s, barring certain SDI and ASDI can force a neutral getup

but for the most part, thunders is just any move that's weak enough to force a neutral get up if the opponent doesn't input...pretty much anything

so for example, samus can jab reset, she CAN do this, but the opponent can also hold A, or a direction, which will instead prompt them to do that action instead of the neutral getup

for the most part though when people get knocked down they wait to see what they need to do, which is where the thunders gets them since they aren't pressing any thing when it happens

 

[Violence]

There's also a timing thing, where before a certain number of frames after a knockdown, if you jab reset them, they cannot roll or perform any other action. However, after a certain frame, if you jab them and they press a or roll, they will instead perform that action.

I remember when I first tried another fighting game and people thought my mind would be blown by combo resets, otg games, and tech chasing, and it all seemed like old news...

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

hm i wonder how reliable uair thunders is...

lol ok it's not really thunders in the traditional sense.. i think i just made a psuedo-connection in my head, sorry to throw the extra adjective in.

yeah, technically 'thunders' (the fox player who first used it) is for resetting while the person is on the ground.

the uair in this case only acts as a juggle, actually, to prevent them from hitting the ground right before you do. i just said 'thunders' because it's like they're on the ground - however, it's probably possible that they could not tech (miss it) and you could uair them...

..but for this combo the uair is a juggle. sorry about the confusion.

 

[bubbaking]

Could Samus's bomb thunder/reset?

 

[Pi]

^yes, if the opponent doesn't buffer something

 

[bubbaking]

Does bomb thunder>dair combo, or am I better off just dairing them on the floor? I seem to recall you talking about bomb>dair earlier on some thread.

 

[Pi]

the patented spaceballs combo

upthrow -> dair -> bomb -> dair -> re-grab -> upthrow -> charge shot

works every time!!!

not really

but yes, bomb -> dair will link if it resets them

i was also fooling around and bomb -> waveland -> uptilt also links in a reset
and while cooler looking/harder to perform

bomb dair is probably better in most regards lol, ease to perform & % wise

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, I see. I'm guessing that combo works best around mid %s?

 

[Pi]

probably any % you can link the dair from the upthrow

but this relies on ur opponent not teching or buffering out of the thunders, the other options are pretty solid though

 

[bubbaking]

I see. So to review at least some of the options we've covered, we have:
uthrow>nair>followup (especially on Falcon)
dthrow>wd>dsmash/dtilt (might be reliant on tech chase, works best around mid %'s on fast fallers)
uthrow>dair (tech chase on platforms)
uthrow>fair>followup (probably on platforms)
uthrow>dash attack>followup (dash attack)
uthrow>charged shot (might require jump)
dthrow>charged shot (except for techs towards Samus)[guaranteed on non-fast fallers at mid to high %'s]
uthrow>dair>FF uair juggle>grab>uthrow>FF uair>jab (only on Falcon)
uthrow>dair>bomb>dair>regrab>uthrow>charged shot (must reset to work)
uthrow>dair>bomb>waveland>utilt>followup (style points, must reset to work)
uthrow>bomb>nair (bomb below opponent, any bomb hit should link into nair at all %'s)
uthrow>bair (sweetspot if possible)
dthrow>nair/bair (floaty chars at most %'s, Jiggs at all %'s, Roy at high %'s, lolz?)

Optimal percents at which these combos work best would be nice. As you may have noticed, some of the later longer combos are actually compositions based on the earlier basic combos. Feedback is appreciated! Let's continue this discussion so that we may bring Samus to new heights! ^_^

 

[bubbaking]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
upthrow is usually the most solid guarantee'd follow up throw

you can go for the tech chase on a platform with a dair

though at some %'s if they go toward the top platform you can't always reach w/ a dair

aerial interupt into ________ ur best bet there

alternatively, if you can, you can try out fair into ________ if they're in a position whereby you can hit them w/ the fair and then l cancel on the platform right after

with falcon, often times you can weak nair into ________ after the upthrow, and at higher %'s on the dthrow you can follow it up directly with a move if they don't DI away from you

dthrow on spacies at i would say mid %'s offers a pretty good chance of a tech chase follow up, but requires a guess, whereas upthrow is more guarantee'd

and there is always the bomb -> nair combo if they choose not to DI

on FD i'm partial to upthrow dair follow ups on players who don't tech, or aren't expecting it, but it might not be the most practical decision

also there may be room to upthrow and dair onto platform stages, like, before they land, or you can go for the tech chase dair, or both

i also think there may be room for upthrow -> dash attack at some %'s, which could lead into mor edash attacks or at least a tech chase follow? on spacies at least i'll have to work w/ it more, but they are in hitstun for a very long time and often times opt not to jump

a lot of players, better ones, will opt not to jump when a follow up seems guarantee'd, because there is a risk in getting hit out of it which suuucks

so you can count on that after upthrow a lot of times

and players who do jump, i use to do this but stopped more recently idk why

but you can upthrow, and space and time ur nair not to hit them until they are out of hitstun, so if they are trying to jump they will jump into your nair
and if they aren't trying to jump you can FF it

so unless they FF out of their hitstun/tumble ur going to hit them, and if they jump u'll hit them as well

though often times they are at a low % when this is the case so might not lead into much

just another non guarantee'd ofllow up to play off of player habits though

I'm not sure I understood the context of the "bomb -> nair combo if they choose not to DI". Did you mean off of dthrow or uthrow?

 

[Pi]

after u uthrow
if you bomb below where they are, and then spam A, you can get the bomb and subsequent nair to connect

 

[Smashjin]

I usually just u-throw into n-air or sweetspot b-air if you can. Sweetspot b-air has a ton of knockback. If you have a charge shot, that's a good option too. However if they get to too high a percent they can get out of it.

U-throw to d-air on platforms is good too like others have said, which you can follow up with a smash or another aerial.

after u uthrow
if you bomb below where they are, and then spam A, you can get the bomb and subsequent nair to connect

I like this, I think I'm gonna start using that.

 

[bubbaking]

Alright! Thanks guys, I'll edit the above post and add those options. Perhaps, I should also put that list into the first post as a display of our collective brainstorming to anyone new to the thread who doesn't feel like reading the subsequent posts?

after u uthrow
if you bomb below where they are, and then spam A, you can get the bomb and subsequent nair to connect

I see. Guessing this requires mid to high %'s to ensure they remain in hitstun from throw?

I usually just u-throw into n-air or sweetspot b-air if you can. Sweetspot b-air has a ton of knockback. If you have a charge shot, that's a good option too. However if they get to to high a percent they can get out of it.

U-throw to d-air on platforms is good too like others have said, which you can follow up with a smash or another aerial.




I like this, I think I'm gonna start using that.

Alright, uthrow into bair.

Oh! I was playing against some Marths and I tested the dthrow>charged shot against a non-fast faller (kinda floaty actually). It was GUARANTEED at mid %'s and up.

 

[Pi]

dthrow -> sh -> ball works on jiggs at like...all %'s lol

and the bomb nair thing can be from throw, dair, utilt,
as long as u can land the bomb the nair should hit

at uthrow u can start at 0, other options obviously not

 

[bubbaking]

Nice. Added to list. :D

 

[DarrellD]

Up throwing fox is mad fun. Soft nair if he goes over a platform with left or right DI. If he goes straight up, just dair to follow up. I think one grab should lead to fox being off stage.

 

[bubbaking]

Alright, I edited the list I prepared into the OP for anyone one who wants all the basic info at a glance.