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Alright boys, what's the verdict?

Sudz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
414
Location
Colorado
Switch FC
SW 3649 6707 8868
Haven't played in about two weeks. I'd say I was enjoying Pac-Man but haven't had enough time to really dig deep and get used to him in Ultimate as I've been too busy trying out some other characters. There's a pretty good possibility he's gonna end up being my main again but I'm not 100% sure yet. Nobody else has felt right, although I still need to play a bit more of the characters I spent time with in 4, namely Greninja and G&W.

How's it going for y'all?
Any complaints about changes to him in Ultimate?
Figured anything cool out with him?
How would you sum up your online experience? Irl tourney experience?
Any decent competitive players to watch out for?
Any hype/funny/jank clips?

I wanna see what y'all have to say!
 

dragontamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
514
NNID
dragontamer5788
Hydrant Bair -> Jab1 is a nifty ledge-kill setup, especially vs Ike, Chrom, Lucina, and other characters without a reflector or projectile. VS Projectile users: they can hit the hydrant on the way back (ex: Pit) or even reflect (Mario / Falco), so its a very matchup dependant setup. (When pit hits the Hydrant, it changes the % damage, so Bair -> Jab1 no longer works)

It takes practice to learn the spacing of it: you gotta space and time it so that it either 2-frames the opponent's recovery, or forces them to get-off the ledge. Since it forces them to get up off the ledge, they can walk into a FSmash or DSmash pretty easily.

Fruit cycling Melon and Galaxian is very good for stage-control and damage. However, opponents still can catch the fruit, but I think I'm learning to play around the catch (since it will be a running-attack or SH Fair the vast majority of the time: so PacMan can usually cover their Dash-attack/Fruit Catch with a running FSmash).

--------

Hydrant -> USmash seems more reliable, probably because USmash (1st hit) does 3% now. Hydrant -> USmash really sets up some janky ledge-kills.

I've got at least one janky kill from Hydrant -> Jab1 (Far hitbox), since it sends the Hydrant backwards. No video, but try it yourself. Its so fun and janky. Its actually fairly reliable to do Hydrant -> Dash-off Bair -> Jab1 (far) with a bit of practice, just gotta master that spacing.

Any complaints about changes to him in Ultimate?
I miss Z-Drops very much. Otherwise, its nice to have a real-grab attack now, as well as a good FSmash. Killing at 85% with FSmash feels so good now.
 
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dragontamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
514
NNID
dragontamer5788
It should be noted that Hydrant -> Dashoff -> Bair -> Jab1 only launches when Bair is fresh. Sometimes, you may need Jab2 to launch. I dunno if Jab2 has a far-hitbox. I guess I have some labbing to do still...

The Jab1 Far hitbox is in my tutorial video btw: https://youtu.be/YUeM7IRNms4?t=26

Jab1 (close) hitbox is far more consistent in my experience. Dashoff -> Bair -> Fox-trot -> Jab1 (close) means that you don't have to worry about spacing the hitboxes. Still, the far-hitbox is useful: I really did kill someone with that. It seems like opponents don't know where you can send the hydrant yet.

Sending the Hydrant forward is what the opponent expects. The backwards hits (USmash, Jab1 Far, and Melon -> Dair) can cause surprises.
 
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dragontamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
514
NNID
dragontamer5788
Okay, I feel a bit more comfortable with matchups now. I've hung out online on "Elite Smash" a bit. I dunno how good they are compared to the typical community, but that's what I'm basing my opinion on.

PacMan has issues when he is out-zoned. Samus, Mewtwo, Robin, Falco seem to cause me the biggest issues. Side-B Power-pellet doesn't block Falco's lasers anymore, and its low-enough on the ground that Samus's short-hop Blaster can go over the grounded pellet. So its harder to protect yourself against a camper.

Villager matchup is absolute cancer. Its the saddest fight in the game (but not the hardest fight). The Rocket Lloyd camp game of Villager is very strong, but it relies upon Fair / Bair to keep you out, which gets stale quick and ends up chipping at you only 3 or 4% at a time. PacMan's hydrant and fruits are absorbed, but throwing many Hydrants out seems to be the best plan (although high-risk: the Hydrant becomes far more powerful after it enters Villager's pocket). The main idea is that when Villager has pocketed a hydrant, you can simply send him a 2nd or 3rd one: Villager can only pocket one thing at a time.

I'm not convinced PacMan has issues vs other strong zoners, like King K. Rool or Simon. Simon gets gimped too easily, and King K. Rool is still a heavy, so PacMan just juggles him forever. Samus, Mewtwo, Robin, and Falco have strong and disjoint aerials, and easy combos to kill you when you mess up. The same is not true of K. Rool or Simon. Snake is interesting, I don't feel disadvantaged, but I don't feel advantaged either.

The swordmen Chrom, Roy, Marth, Lucina, Ike... fall prey to PacMan's ledge game and hydrant setups. You can only drop hydrant when you're on advantage (and you ceed Advantage whenever you do so), but if you manage to FTilt them off the ledge, that's often enough to ledge-trap them with risk of death. Hydrant setups on the ledge are extremely lethal, and the swordmen don't have any recourse. Gannondorf, Capt. Falcon, Bowser, Ridley, Pikachu, Pichu fall under the same boat and are much easier to ledge-trap / ledge-guard than other characters.

Roy's speed and KO potential though is a definite issue, and may have an advantage on Pacman as a result. The other swordmen don't seem very difficult for Pac to either gimp or zone out. Little Mac similarly has high speed and KO potential, so I've been having more issues with him in Smash Ultimate. The "Trampoline for the win" doesn't seem to be as reliable in Smash U vs LittleMac.

Mii Swordfighter has a surprisingly good camp game, and forces PacMan to run in. But I haven't had as many issues with Swordfighter as Samus or Falco.

I'm still lacking knowledge on many characters: Peach, Wii Fit Trainer, etc. etc.

------------

Hardest Matchups: Falco / Samus

Other disadvantaged matchups: Robin, Mewtwo, Villager, Roy (??)
 
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Sudz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
414
Location
Colorado
Switch FC
SW 3649 6707 8868
Okay, I feel a bit more comfortable with matchups now. I've hung out online on "Elite Smash" a bit. I dunno how good they are compared to the typical community, but that's what I'm basing my opinion on.
Excellent write-up my guy. Thanks for the response
 

Wigglerman

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
786
Location
Maine
Against Falco or Wolf laser spam, toss orange. It doesn't get stopped by their laser and just keeps going. Really good to punish that sort of antic and get yourself closer by chasing the orange (provided they don't reflect, which often isn't the case since they're too busy smashing the B button to stop in time). Pac can also do OK against other Zoners though Samus is the roughest since she can punish almost every option we have to get around her shots (Namely Fair to blast us away again if we just leap over stuff). However, he can go great anti projectile as his frame data on air attacks isn't buns anymore, so he can get in and out box the likes of Robin, Falco and even Samus (once he gets in).
 
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