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AlphaZealot the greatest T.O. to date UPDATED June 30 see post 122

Takeover1806

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
2,014
Location
md/va
We basically had about a good 1 h & 30 min conversation on AIM about tournament outcomes & how things changed from back in the day. He explained to me why smash esp. in md/va is not growing or going nowhere, why T.O.'s are being lazy, how he's helped Ohio grow from nothing, the way payouts should be made, etc....:dizzy:

During our convo since he basically helps T.O. the madden & halo community, the madden T.O. asked him to write a guide on how to make there community bigger (they are a very small community for those of you who didn't know). :chuckle:
Since Smash is not nowhere it should be as far as growth, HE IS ACTUALLY WILLING TO MAKE A GUIDE ON HOW TO GROW THE SMASH COMMUNITY & HOW TOURNAMENTS SHOULD BE RUN.
NOW FOR ALL YOU T.O.'S OUT THERE THAT THINK THEY DON'T NEED ANY HELP, IM PRETTY SURE YOU GUYS ARE OPEN FOR FEEDBACK SO PLEASE LISTEN.

The reason Im actually making this thread is to inspire him to make the guide. So what I basically promised is that I will C/P our convo about most of the things we talked about so he will have ideas while making the guide. Now for any of the T.O.'s or anybody that wants the smash community to grow, we just need your support & inspiration to help what would be the stepping stone to smash success.

Here's is the conversation we had about problems md/va is having, problems with of why turnouts are poor, how he brought ohio on there feet, etc.. JUST READ IT lol

alphazealot (1:40:26 AM):
yea the md/va scene is struggling cause you guys need better tourney venues

alphazealot (1:40:30 AM):
$10 venue fee blows
alphazealot (1:40:35 AM):

$5 should be standard

alphazealot (1:40:54 AM):
when im here in the summer im hoping ill be able to hold 1, maybe 2 tournaments

alphazealot (1:41:04 AM):
venue will be <$5

alphazealot (1:41:09 AM):
$5 max

Takeover1806 (1:41:10 AM):
yea it does blow

Takeover1806 (1:41:14 AM):
$10 alot
\
alphazealot (1:41:18 AM):
a **** ton

alphazealot (1:41:32 AM):
phycologicaly the diff between $25 and $30 is huge

alphazealot (1:41:45 AM):
heres what I did in ohio

alphazealot (1:41:48 AM):
to grow the scene

alphazealot (1:41:55 AM):
i started playing a lil over a year ago

alphazealot (1:42:05 AM):
in ohio there were tournaments about every 5 weeks or so

alphazealot (1:42:17 AM):
i found a venue in feb

alphazealot (1:42:23 AM):
started holding my own tournaments

alphazealot (1:42:26 AM):
convinced everyone in ohio

alphazealot (1:42:32 AM):
to accept $10, $10, $5 format

alphazealot (1:42:42 AM):
and 48/22/14/8/4/4 payout scheme
regardless of the size of the event

Takeover1806 (1:42:47 AM):
yea that is really good

alphazealot (1:42:49 AM):
15 people show up

alphazealot (1:42:55 AM):
1/3rd of the people are placing in the money

Takeover1806 (1:43:09 AM):
what players are in ohio??

alphazealot (1:43:38 AM):
me/m2k/shugo/kel/ybm/infern/nope/capem/idk there are a ton now

alphazealot (1:43:40 AM):
basically

alphazealot (1:43:42 AM):
in a year

alphazealot (1:43:51 AM):
we went from like a tournament every month with like 20 people

alphazealot (1:43:55 AM):
to a tournament every weekend

alphazealot (1:44:01 AM):
with like 30-50 people

Takeover1806 (1:44:07 AM):
**** every week

alphazealot (1:44:11 AM):
yea

Takeover1806 (1:44:11 AM):
thats huge

alphazealot (1:44:12 AM):
actually

Takeover1806 (1:44:16 AM):
way better than md/va

alphazealot (1:44:17 AM):
the problem now is we have to many tournaments

Takeover1806 (1:44:52 AM):
only like 20-30 people show up now

alphazealot (1:45:01 AM):
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246510

Takeover1806 (1:45:05 AM):
I heard ybm beat lain??

alphazealot (1:45:13 AM):
its cause the venue fee is so high and the payouts are only to top 3
if you do top 5 pay outs (so 6 people) just think of this
top 3: maybe 4-5 people can compete for

alphazealot (1:45:51 AM):
spots 4th, 5th/5th? probably 10-15 people can compete for

alphazealot (1:45:58 AM):
like I saw you placed 5th recently

Takeover1806 (1:46:09 AM):
yea that was in jersey

alphazealot (1:46:10 AM):
you wouldhave gotten essentially your $10 entry back for that

alphazealot (1:46:22 AM):
and that would be at like a 20 person event
alphazealot 1:49 am

Takeover1806 (1:51:09 AM):
how do we do that??

alphazealot (1:51:16 AM):
well

alphazealot (1:51:21 AM):
pound 4 should give you guys a boost

Takeover1806 (1:51:25 AM):
kosha boy we did great

alphazealot (1:51:39 AM):
second: expand singles payouts to top 5

Takeover1806 (1:51:47 AM):
the only people that held us back were ally ksizzle adhd

alphazealot (1:51:55 AM):
third: find venues for $5 venue fee, not $10

alphazealot (1:52:03 AM):
drop the C3 venue, its bringing the community down

Takeover1806 (1:52:15 AM):
c3 is a great venue??

alphazealot (1:52:22 AM):
it use to be a great venue

alphazealot (1:52:38 AM):
now you are paying $10 for a tournament on sundays that doesnt even get to start until after 5pm

alphazealot (1:52:41 AM):
that is crazy

Takeover1806 (1:52:48 AM):
no that is just recent

alphazealot (1:52:53 AM):
the owner is robbing md/va blind

Takeover1806 (1:52:56 AM):
it was never on a sunday

alphazealot (1:53:07 AM):
i know, but now it is, and it will probably stay that way

Takeover1806 (1:53:29 AM):
but it did not start that late ever

alphazealot (1:53:29 AM):
i mean i went to the very first c3

alphazealot (1:53:32 AM):
back in the day

alphazealot (1:53:39 AM):
we had the venue all day long

alphazealot (1:53:46 AM):
you could get there at like 10-11am

alphazealot (1:53:53 AM):
and it was a $3 venue fee

alphazealot (1:53:58 AM):
for the first time we did it

alphazealot (1:54:03 AM):
then it was $5 for a bit

alphazealot (1:54:20 AM):
then it was $8 and the owner felt guilty so he promised use "chips and a drink" to make up for the $3

alphazealot (1:54:43 AM):
now its $10, starts at 5pm, no chips/drink, and is on sunday

Takeover1806 (1:54:44 AM):
wow never knew that

Takeover1806 (1:54:51 AM):
yea that sucks

Takeover1806 (1:55:00 AM):
but I was not going to sunday's tourney anyway

Takeover1806 (1:55:06 AM):
I was mainly going to chus

alphazealot (1:55:13 AM):
yea see chu knows where its at

alphazealot (1:55:18 AM):
he knows how to grow a community

alphazealot (1:55:22 AM):
ive copied some of his ideas

alphazealot (1:55:28 AM):
he keeps the costs low so more people can come

Takeover1806 (1:55:42 AM):
yea he does

alphazealot (1:55:42 AM):
keeps the atmosphere friendly, he reaches out to everyone that comes to his tournaments
alphazealot (1:56:00 AM):
so i do the same at mine, i try to shake everyones hand that shows up and i try to let them i know i appreciate them being there

Takeover1806 (1:56:21 AM):
lol yea that is a great strategy

alphazealot (1:56:24 AM):
and i try to make sure they are actually getting a $25 whole-day tournament experience

Takeover1806 (1:56:27 AM):
I realized that a while ago

Takeover1806 (1:56:44 AM):
when he even convinces the not good players to come

alphazealot (1:57:00 AM):
that is how you grow!

Takeover1806 (1:57:12 AM):
but lately our community has been falling

Takeover1806 (1:57:31 AM):
that is why we had to go to out of state tournies for about a straight month

alphazealot (1:57:45 AM):
wow

alphazealot (1:57:53 AM):
did you check the link i sent you?

Takeover1806 (1:58:03 AM):
this was back when virdian & kosha boy

Takeover1806 (1:58:05 AM):
yea i did

alphazealot (1:58:14 AM):
oh thats the other thing

alphazealot (1:58:18 AM):
you guys arent posting brackets

alphazealot (1:58:27 AM):
or hyping full results

alphazealot (1:58:36 AM):
a lot of the mid-low level players

alphazealot (1:58:50 AM):
they really care just about seeing how they did in comparison with other people and they want to see improvement

alphazealot (1:59:11 AM):
if to's are lazy and don't post the brackets on AiB they are missing a huge way to keep newer players connected with the community

Takeover1806 (1:59:24 AM):
yea you are right
Takeover1806 (1:59:30 AM):
about 2 weeks ago
Takeover1806 (1:59:34 AM):
bolt had a tourney

alphazealot (1:59:36 AM):
cause AiB also opens up things like cross-linking results of your past tournaments (a "tournament resume") and also has the ladder and basically facebook for Smash

Takeover1806 (1:59:56 AM):
only teams happened


Takeover1806 (1:59:58 AM):
no singles

Takeover1806 (2:00:03 AM):
no brawl+

Takeover1806 (2:00:08 AM):
bad weather

Takeover1806 (2:00:10 AM):
late times

Takeover1806 (2:00:15 AM):
eveybody was dissapointed

alphazealot (2:00:19 AM):
mm

alphazealot (2:00:22 AM):
that is the other thing

alphazealot (2:00:24 AM):
we dont do melee

alphazealot (2:00:34 AM):
i still love melee

alphazealot (2:00:38 AM):
but having melee + Brawl

alphazealot (2:00:45 AM):
means both tournaments are not the experience they should be

alphazealot (2:01:06 AM):
things run late, the melee players insult the brawl players, try to get new brawl
players to quit before they can even get their feet wet, etc

alphazealot (2:01:45 AM):
and yea, here are the tournament experiences ive had in md/va in the last year

Takeover1806 (2:02:13 AM):
yea you are right

alphazealot (2:02:16 AM):
Crit Hit 4.5: super crowded event in a house with a venue fee, about 10 set ups for 60 people

Takeover1806 (2:02:25 AM):
thats what chu has been trying to do

alphazealot (2:03:12 AM):
chudats xmas biweekly: 5 melee players *****ed that they wanted melee, chu listened so he said melee would happen in the morning, day of the tournament 60 people show up but only 15 people enter melee singles and 5 teams

alphazealot (2:03:19 AM):
brawl doubes doesnt start till 4

alphazealot (2:03:28 AM):
brawl singles, which everyone showed for, doesnt happen

alphazealot (2:03:30 AM):
there were 7 setups

alphazealot (2:03:46 AM):
melee was on 1-2 tvs the whole time, includeing while the brawl tournament was going on

Takeover1806 (2:03:55 AM):
when was this??

alphazealot (2:04:03 AM):
this was his xmas biweekly last year (2008)

alphazealot (2:04:06 AM):
2008

alphazealot (2:04:11 AM):
umm

alphazealot (2:04:16 AM):
after that lets see

alphazealot (2:04:17 AM):
oh

alphazealot (2:04:20 AM):
cot4 (not really md/va)

alphazealot (2:04:59 AM):
crowed, 29 set ups for 250 people, Melee had 4 set ups and if they had given 3 to brawl on saturday every pool could have been run for brawl instead of 3 pools (like mine) starting on sunday (and so only 5/8 people in my pool showed up)
alphazealot (2:05:04 AM):
umm

alphazealot (2:05:53 AM):
oh i did a C3 in April, wasn't bad, about 30 people, I got $10 for 4th place (beating Meep/Esoj I forget who else, lost to Candy/G-reg, stupid snake!)
after that i went to a md/va circuit in the summer, again $10 venue fee, 50 people showed up, there were only 6 setups, and there was no room at all to move around

Takeover1806 (2:08:58 AM):
yea I was dissapointed in the md/va circuit

alphazealot (2:09:03 AM):
the best event

Takeover1806 (2:09:04 AM):
there were like no setups

alphazealot (2:09:05 AM):
i went to

alphazealot (2:09:09 AM):
was run by tantalus

alphazealot (2:09:14 AM):
it was the one that you and i played at

alphazealot (2:09:23 AM):
i had my venue fee waved for set up

alphazealot (2:09:41 AM):
tant actually ran the tournament and called matches and got that stuff played

alphazealot (2:09:52 AM):
and there were decent amount of setups for the number of people

Takeover1806 (2:10:09 AM):
where was this at??

alphazealot (2:10:13 AM):
oh wait

alphazealot (2:10:13 AM):
****

alphazealot (2:10:20 AM):
im confusing that, with the c3 that we played at

alphazealot (2:10:57 AM):
yea nevermind, regardless, the event was in MD in frederick, it was some gun/hunting lodge

alphazealot (2:11:01 AM):
i thought u were there for some reason

alphazealot (2:11:47 AM):
point is: every tournament ive been to in md/va has not really both worth the money

alphazealot (2:11:50 AM):
except for 1

alphazealot (2:12:01 AM):
most are either crowded

alphazealot (2:12:06 AM):
or start to late
alphazealot (2:12:08 AM):
or

Takeover1806 (2:12:11 AM):
yea i was there the gunclub

alphazealot (2:12:11 AM):
the worst

alphazealot (2:12:14 AM):
not enough setups

alphazealot (2:12:21 AM):
like

Takeover1806 (2:12:26 AM):
yea the worst part is the setups

alphazealot (2:12:29 AM):
for my tournametns at wings and brew pizza

Takeover1806 (2:12:34 AM):
no chance for friendlies

alphazealot (2:12:34 AM):
ive held 5 now

Takeover1806 (2:12:40 AM):
run late

alphazealot (2:12:42 AM):
and ive had: 8, 8, 9, 10, and 7 setups

alphazealot (2:12:56 AM):
for 24, 26, 32, 24, and 20 people

alphazealot (2:13:04 AM):
and that is because I cap the event

alphazealot (2:13:05 AM):
lol

alphazealot (2:13:19 AM):
the ohio circuit champs

alphazealot (2:13:26 AM):
i had 12 setups for 33 people

Takeover1806 (2:13:35 AM):
you are a great T.O

alphazealot (2:13:49 AM):
and i dont even give discouts for venue fee

alphazealot (2:14:07 AM):
its just: bring setups so the tournament runs well and we have a great experience

alphazealot (2:14:20 AM):
most TOs dont realize you start running your tournament when you make a thread

alphazealot (2:14:31 AM):
anyone that says they can come i keep track of

alphazealot (2:14:39 AM):
anyone that says they can bring a setup i put down

alphazealot (2:14:49 AM):
when people see a list of 30 names and 2 setups, they naturally step up

alphazealot (2:14:58 AM):
most TOs dont take that extra step

alphazealot (2:15:13 AM):
they just put up a thread and then show up the day of the oturnament and take what they get

alphazealot (2:15:29 AM):
this summer ill do my best to get my old venue in MD

alphazealot (2:15:37 AM):
where my crew ran BOMB 1-4.

alphazealot (2:16:04 AM):
which basically grew the melee scene back in the day, we had like 20/30/70/100+ people

Takeover1806 (2:16:27 AM):
if you can get 50+ people Ill be happy

alphazealot (2:16:32 AM):
oh

alphazealot (2:16:37 AM):
itll happen

alphazealot (2:17:10 AM):
back then

alphazealot (2:17:13 AM):
for the 100+ man tournament

alphazealot (2:17:15 AM):
we have over 40 setups

alphazealot (2:17:36 AM):
again, i kept a list of who was bringing setups and i kept telling people to bring them, and i kept an attendence list

Takeover1806 (2:17:49 AM):
ohh yea that reminds me

alphazealot (2:17:52 AM):
more setups at a 100man tournament in 2005 than a 250 person tournament (cot4) in 2007

Takeover1806 (2:17:53 AM):
is it possible to have a melee tournament the same time as brawl

alphazealot (2:18:30 AM):
possible?

alphazealot (2:18:31 AM):
yes

alphazealot (2:18:34 AM):
should you?

alphazealot (2:18:35 AM):
no

Takeover1806 (2:18:41 AM):
with alot of setups

Takeover1806 (2:18:49 AM):
bring more people

alphazealot (2:18:53 AM):
you thinking of pound 4?

Takeover1806 (2:19:02 AM):
no not like pound

alphazealot (2:19:15 AM):
the problem with running melee and brawl

Takeover1806 (2:19:17 AM):
like an regional or local tourney

alphazealot (2:19:25 AM):
at the same time or at the same tournament

alphazealot (2:19:33 AM):
is that in the end both tournaments end up getting ****ed

Takeover1806 (2:19:53 AM):
how??

alphazealot (2:21:43 AM):
the brawl players see: Melee players *****ing about their game, Melee players who got venue waived taking setups for Melee friendlies that could be used to runt he Brawl tournament faster, Melee getting favortism cause most of the TO's are old school and prefer it over Brawl (aka genesis, first national brawl tournament, you could not even watch the finals because the tournament ran late...essentially because instead of taking Melee set ups and using them to run brawl faster, they just keep letting melee friendlies go on, then on top of that the projector was Melee all day long and so brawl had only 1/3rd the hype cause all there was to watch was a 40 ince screen

alphazealot (2:21:59 AM):
most of this is true in reverse as well

alphazealot (2:22:08 AM):
melee will run slower then it should cause you need to use set ups for brawl

alphazealot (2:22:27 AM):
some brawl players are ***** to melee players (to a lesser extent, but there are some)

alphazealot (2:22:50 AM):
logistically speaking Brawl takes about 1.5X as long to run as melee

Takeover1806 (2:23:13 AM):
**** i feel bad for brawl

alphazealot (2:23:33 AM):
which means that based on resources you shouldn't be spreading it 50/50 and hoping they finish at the same time

alphazealot (2:23:53 AM):
if you want to run melee and brawl and have them end at roughly the same time, you need to split the resources about 35/65

alphazealot (2:24:06 AM):
(35 for Melee, 65 for brawl)

alphazealot (2:24:10 AM):
well no

alphazealot (2:24:15 AM):
dont feel bad

Takeover1806 (2:24:34 AM):
yea that is what I was thinking

alphazealot (2:24:37 AM):
i mean i use to help run the halo 3 tournaments for MLG and now I'm their head ref for the Madden Challenge

alphazealot (2:24:51 AM):
A halo 3 single game takes almost 15 minutes

alphazealot (2:24:58 AM):
a "set" can last almost an entire hour

alphazealot (2:25:02 AM):
and that is just 3 games

Takeover1806 (2:25:23 AM):
wow amazing I did not know you do other games

alphazealot (2:25:26 AM):
for madden, just to get the game started (people have to set audibles and such) takes about 12-13 minutes

Takeover1806 (2:25:29 AM):
that is super long

Takeover1806 (2:25:56 AM):
wow at madden start-up

alphazealot (2:26:04 AM):
with setup time + game time a single game in madden takes about 45 minutes on saturday when quarters are 3 minutes long and an hour on sunday when they are 4 minutes long

Takeover1806 (2:26:13 AM):
I know the players should know there audibles a head of time

alphazealot (2:26:17 AM):
they do

alphazealot (2:26:19 AM):
but

alphazealot (2:26:23 AM):
you cant save them

alphazealot (2:26:30 AM):
so they have to set them each time they play

alphazealot (2:26:48 AM):
and then madden 10 is stupid with how the audibles work, it takes forever just to scroll through the list

Takeover1806 (2:26:56 AM):
even that they should only take a max of up to 5 minutes

alphazealot (2:27:11 AM):
imo brawl running long is actually a good thing because it means more bang for your buck

alphazealot (2:27:16 AM):
each player gets 5 minutes to set their audibales

alphazealot (2:27:28 AM):
most players actually need more time then we allow them

alphazealot (2:27:54 AM):
cause they set tons of audibles cause madden at high level is crazy you dont actually run plays from your playbook you basicalyl just run audibles the whole game

Takeover1806 (2:28:13 AM):
wow I still wish I played madden competitevely

Takeover1806 (2:28:19 AM):
yea i know audibles all day

Takeover1806 (2:28:24 AM):
thats how you do it son

Takeover1806 (2:28:27 AM):
lol

alphazealot (2:28:27 AM):
lol

alphazealot (2:28:34 AM):
well

alphazealot (2:28:44 AM):
madden has a very small competitive community

alphazealot (2:28:57 AM):
and ive talked with their TO's and im trying to get them to slowly change

alphazealot (2:28:58 AM):
in madden

Takeover1806 (2:29:00 AM):
wow seriously??

alphazealot (2:29:08 AM):
people wont go to your tournament unless

Takeover1806 (2:29:12 AM):
i thought the madden community is expanding

alphazealot (2:29:13 AM):
-You guarantee your payout

alphazealot (2:29:27 AM):
-The payout is a lot, and usually only to 1st

alphazealot (2:29:27 AM):
lol

alphazealot (2:29:46 AM):
they esestially only pay out to 1st place, sometimes to second. the idea of even 60/30/10 is not common in madden

alphazealot (2:29:51 AM):
so their underground community is super small

alphazealot (2:30:09 AM):
all they really have is the madden challenge then a few super hyped underground tournaments a year

Takeover1806 (2:30:13 AM):
wow for madden being huge that is insane

alphazealot (2:30:19 AM):
I KNOW

alphazealot (2:30:24 AM):
and its because of how they run their tournaments
alphazealot (2:30:29 AM):

Smash, we got it right early on

alphazealot (2:30:40 AM):
we dropped the guaranteed payout BS a long time ago

alphazealot (2:30:44 AM):
and just went with pot splits

Takeover1806 (2:30:45 AM):
yea that is why I moved to the smash community

Takeover1806 (2:30:59 AM):
well im lying but that is great

alphazealot (2:31:09 AM):
then we went away from the 70/20/10 model in the traditional fighting games and switched to the 60/30/10 model

Takeover1806 (2:31:13 AM):
that is why I think we can be the biggest game community

alphazealot (2:31:15 AM):
OH

alphazealot (2:31:17 AM):
POOLS

alphazealot (2:31:19 AM):
jesus

alphazealot (2:31:23 AM):
i cant believe i forgot

alphazealot (2:31:26 AM):
this is the biggest thing

alphazealot (2:31:33 AM):
at every tournament I go to in ohio

alphazealot (2:31:34 AM):
we do pools

alphazealot (2:31:36 AM):
every

alphazealot (2:31:37 AM):
single

alphazealot (2:31:38 AM):
tournament

Takeover1806 (2:31:44 AM):
how??

alphazealot (2:32:15 AM):
cause our TO's arent lazy and we know that unless you are one of the top 5-8 players there, pools is essentially what you look forward to
alphazealot (2:32:17 AM):
MD/VA use to do pools

alphazealot (2:32:35 AM):
use to, not anymore, which is another reason for shrinkage

alphazealot (2:33:07 AM):
Actually: I dont want to call people like chu/tant lazy, they arent, these statements dont apply across the board

alphazealot (2:33:31 AM):
logistically speaking pools is very simple, if you have 32 people you should do 4 pools of 8 with top 4 advancing

Takeover1806 (2:33:34 AM):
well I think you should give them tips

alphazealot (2:33:40 AM):
give each pool of 8 two tvs

alphazealot (2:33:56 AM):
maybe we should just C/P this convo to somewhere haha

alphazealot (2:34:12 AM):
and yea since i have the time the madden TO's asked that i make them a thread on how to grow their community

alphazealot (2:34:22 AM):
maybe I should do that for smash to

Takeover1806 (2:34:29 AM):
yea you need to

Takeover1806 (2:34:35 AM):
I think if you do that for smash

Takeover1806 (2:34:50 AM):
then our community will def grow

Takeover1806 (2:34:54 AM):
if you need my help

Takeover1806 (2:34:57 AM):
I got you

alphazealot (2:35:08 AM):
yea

alphazealot (2:35:12 AM):
inspiration

alphazealot (2:35:16 AM):
is my biggest problem

alphazealot (2:35:22 AM):
its hard to sit down and write out guides and such

Takeover1806 (2:35:30 AM):
you are not lying

alphazealot (2:35:34 AM):
if i get inspired i can wrte for hours

Takeover1806 (2:35:40 AM):
I dont even know how you guys do it sometime

alphazealot (2:35:44 AM):
if im not feeling it i just procrastinate

Takeover1806 (2:36:21 AM):
even though I am new to the community you are easily if not the top T.O.

Takeover1806 (2:36:44 AM):
but how come smash does not have a sponser

Takeover1806 (2:36:48 AM):
like other games do

alphazealot (2:36:55 AM):
well, dont say that, you havent been at an event ive run yet lol

alphazealot (2:47:51 AM):
kk

alphazealot (2:47:55 AM):
oh

alphazealot (2:47:57 AM):
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252077

alphazealot (2:47:59 AM):
and

alphazealot (2:48:20 AM):
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208631

alphazealot (2:48:28 AM):
those are the two venues im gonna be using in ohio

alphazealot (2:48:33 AM):
for the next 6 months

alphazealot (2:48:45 AM):
and those are two touraments i ran in dec (dec 5th and 12th)

alphazealot (2:50:42 AM):
the OC Champs I had 3 contests for people
contests are always nice/easy
Signature contest: best sig gets free entry to tourney

alphazealot (2:51:25 AM):
the signature is basically your tournament, and its done to promote the tournament around smashboards
I did an "amauter teams" contest
which was I just gave $10 to the team that had never placed in the top 3 before

alphazealot (2:52:00 AM):
one of the guys on the team had never won money, ever
he was very happy just to get $5

alphazealot (2:52:44 AM):
then there is this guy (also a very good TO) named the Kiest, he made this thing called the obsticle course, its a side contest to enter for $1

alphazealot (2:52:47 AM):
very entertaining

alphazealot (2:52:52 AM):
gives people something else to do

alphazealot (2:53:05 AM):
he took the idea from another TO in ohio named Nope (also good)
alphazealot (2:53:24 AM):
Nopes crew (springfield) did something caled the "ripn" challenge at their MW circuit champs

alphazealot (2:53:45 AM):
the gist was, $1 for 3 tries, whoever got the highest KO total in cruel brawl won a new controller

alphazealot (2:54:12 AM):
then you gotta look at things like planning an event

alphazealot (2:54:15 AM):
like this: Schedule with 8 TVS
-Double elimination doubles bracket
-8 pools of 4 with 2 people advancing into a 16 person double elimination singles bracket
11:00AM: Doors open-registration for singles and doubles begins
12:00PM: Registration closes
12:30PM: Doubles bracket - WR1
12:54PM: Doubles bracket - WR2 & LR1
1:18PM: Doubles bracket - LR2 & WR3 (2 tvs available for free play)
1:42PM: Doubles bracket - WF & LR4 (5 tvs available for free play)
2:06PM: Doubles bracket - LR5, WF continue & pools 1 (2 tvs), 2(2 tvs), and 3(1 tv) start
2:30PM: Doubles bracket - LF & pools 1, 2, and 3 continue play
2:54PM: Doubles bracket - GF & pools 1, 2, and 3 finish
3:18PM: Singles pools - pools 4 (2 tvs), 5(2 tvs), 6(2 tvs), 7(1 tv), and 8(1 tv) begin play
3:42PM: Singles pools - pools 4 (2 tvs), 5(2 tvs), 6(2 tvs), 7 (1 tv), and 8 (1 tv) continue
4:06PM: Singles pools - pools 4 (2 tvs), 5(2 tvs), 6(2 tvs) finish - 7 (1 tv) and 8 (1 tv) continue
4:30PM: Singles pools - pools 7 (2 tvs) and 8 (2 tvs) finish -(4 stations available for free play)
5:00PM: Singles bracket - WR1
5:24PM: Singles bracket - WR2 & LR2
5:54PM: Singles bracket - LR2 & WR3 (2 tvs available for free play)
6:18PM: Singles bracket - WF & LR4 (5 tvs available for free play)
6: 42PM: Singles bracket - LR5 and WF continues (7 tvs available for free play)
7:06PM: Singles bracket - LF (7 tvs available for free play)
7:46PM: Singles bracket - GF (7 tvs available for free play)
8:45PM: tear down and pack up - then we can all eat dinner at wings and brew to discuss the event
alphazealot (2:54:59 AM):
Then you gotta tell people how to park, how to get to the venue, how to get their tvs into the venue, and most importantly, where and what is expected for food
alphazealot (2:55:16 AM):
very, very few of these things are done on a regular basis in MD/VA anymore
alphazealot (2:55:29 AM):
most of them though back in like 2005 when I was a TO in the area were quite common

Takeover1806 (2:56:41 AM):
wow amazing

alphazealot (2:56:59 AM):
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj128/alphazealot/BrawlStats.jpg

That is the end of our long convo & man that was alot to cover...
He also wanted me to post this
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWStKQ2xpdQGtM-XEAGBMBw&single=true&gid=0&output=html

Im tired as hell so Im going to sleep asap but make sure everybody reads & supports this thread
 

Meme

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For quite some time I've been wanting to organize Bi-Weeklys for the very same reason.
D: But it's tough to find a place to host these things XP.

I'll look foward to a guide...

*wonders how the pools mechanic works* d >_>b
 

DanGR

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It's truly amazing the time some good T.O.s will spend organizing tournaments.

AZ, can't wait for the guide. :p

Many people need it.
 

Noraa

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Laurel, Md
Yo people ask me why i dont go to tournys as much, and Alpha listed all the reasons why i dont.

$10 venue fees- gotta be joking, do you know what i can do with 10 bucks thats better than going to a tourny? Cut it down

Starting late/finishing late- smash is fun as hell..but i still got other **** to do..at least finish around 9pm and start 11/12

Hogging TV's for friendlies when the tourny is fully still going on - Its tourny time, lets knock it out foreal, dont steal a tv when its still 2-3rd round of brackets...at least wait till finals man

Not enough setups and might get 2 friendlies in before and after the tourny- i dont even need to explain


*With that said, i only really go to big tournies now because of the atmosphere and i get to watch **** live and meet new people.

Takeover, the formatting wasnt that bad, people just like stuff on a silver platter. People just read it, its not that bad.

Alpha you keep doing your thing.
 

Nintendude

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People should just stop whining the read this - it has many very good points. Pools in particular is something that I really wish more TOs would organize. As someone who very rarely attends tournaments and also isn't good enough to progress really far in the brackets, pools is a great way to give me a more worthwhile tournament experience since at the very least I get to play 3 tournament sets. Also, if you are in a pool you typically sit and watch everyone's matches and get to know the people in your pool better. It builds more camaraderie among your group and you get to see many matches that otherwise would likely never happen in a tournament setting.
 

Atlus8

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alphazealot (2:21:43 AM):(aka genesis, first national brawl tournament, you could not even watch the finals because the tournament ran late...essentially because instead of taking Melee set ups and using them to run brawl faster, they just keep letting melee friendlies go on, then on top of that the projector was Melee all day long and so brawl had only 1/3rd the hype cause all there was to watch was a 40 ince screen
This guy is tripping! The first Brawl National was not at Genesis! Hell, AXIS (September 08') had over 300 people making it the biggest Brawl tournament ever! After Melee was finished, they did setup Brawl on the projector! Yeah! I remember the 20 people that were watching that! There was also a lack of Wiis! Every Wii had to be used for Brawl only! Might as well use the remaining tvs for Melee since there is no way to setup Brawl!

Edit - And Neadlt is the greatest T.O to date! Champ is right behind him too!
 

AlphaZealot

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Sorry Axis with like 2 people from the EC is not national. Axis was 95% WC attendance. National implies a decent amount of attendence from multiple regions including both coasts (which is what "national" tournaments like Apex have lacked, which is why I consider such events large regional tournaments since its main EC/MW/S).

Also, Atlus, umm...290 people you really think there were only 18 wiis in that venue with Brawl? Especially since on Saturday there were close to 25-30?

Yea, Brawl was on the projector from between about 9-midnight on Sunday. Melee was up there from about 10am-9pm on sunday. The point is both Melee and Brawl people paid equal money to attend the event and one experience was clearly favored over the other and in the end the Melee players didn't like being around Brawl and the Brawl players didn't like being around Melee. I'm not saying hold Brawl instead of Melee. I'm just saying don't do joint events, because to date there hasn't really been a large tournament to do it successfully (except maybe Apex but Brawl/Melee were in seperate rooms!, viola!)

Finally: I'm not claiming to be the best TO, and anyone who ever takes titles like
"BEST TO EVER"
or
"BEST COMBO EVER"
Seriously...well...

Don't.
 

Lobos

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Because the economy sucks.......and most stuff is hosted at gaming venues/ lan centers which are expensive...
 

TP

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Pools are SO important, I can't imagine a tournament without them. They get you your money's worth. In STL, we always have pools, even if there are only like 20 people. In such a case, we don't eliminate anyone in pools and just use them to seed the bracket, which means everyone gets to play even more games. People enjoy STL tournaments because they get to play a bunch of sets no matter what, and we still finish on time.

:034:
 

AlphaZealot

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My tournaments are held in:
The basement/upstairs of a small restaurant. For your $5 venue fee you get 3-4 slices of pizza plus infinite-refill soda the entire tournament. Because of the size I have to cap the events at 24 now.
The basement of my fraternity. Also a $5 venue fee but I can take some of that money and use it for contests.
The caffeteria of a church/middle school. Back in the day there was no "venue" fee, we just took 10% of the pot and donated it to the church.

Venues are easy to find if you just expand your idea of what a "venue is".

And no, I'm not referring to a house or apartment. This economy sucks. Tons of businesses would kill if for the ability to get guaranteed $5 a head and people filling their business all day, buying their products/food/etc. Most of these LAN centers if they didn't have tournaments would just sit empty all day, and whats even funnier is that they can continue their normal business while the tournament is being run. It is nothing but a win/win, which is why $10 is mostly greed and not necessity. Find venues where they would not only appreciate you helping their business, but would be willing to help you in return.

Because the economy sucks.......and most stuff is hosted at gaming venues/ lan centers which are expensive...
When the economy is bad, prices should go down, not up.

Twilight: see! exactly! That isn't happening in MD/VA anymore!
 

CT Chia

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good read, i agree with a lot of it and im going to try and implement some of these ideas into my tourney
 

SASSY

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The pools thing sounds really important. I know a lot of newer players hate going to tourneys to spend like 10 on venue, and 10 for each event, just to maybe play two rounds per event. If there were pools, they would get way more play time in. That would also cut back on the problem of too many people playing friendlies. I mean, if you go out after the first two rounds after dropping 30 bucks, of course your going to want to get more practice in. =/
 

Isatis

If specified, this will repl[0x00000000]ce the
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Not only did I stop going to MD/VA tournies because of the ridiculous fees ($10 venue, $10 singles, $10 doubles is commonplace now apparently) it's why I've been supportive of people like ChuDat and JCaesar for hosting tournaments that don't charge as much for their venues as venues like Ultimate Gaming Zone or C3. It's been the decrippling motivation factor for going to tournies because I really don't have that much money.
 

omegawhitemage

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Good **** alpha, lots of good points in there for people to consider.

Fees is the biggest thing to me, well besides pool play, I really hate charging them just to use the venue but it's almost unavoidable. Pools is such a huge deal though, I think the biggest reason we don't see them run a lot is sadly because TO's are lazy. I personally just hate running them, but that's because I've never gotten to do it for a small group before. First time was VLS for 189 people. Good times.

Scheduling is so important though. People seem to think that just putting something rough online is all they need to do, but no one ever seems to enforce it, or take the extra step to refine it. I've easily spent entire days on my schedule in the past and finished tournaments 4 hours earlier then they should have been. You just need to do it right and you can make anything work out.

Your point about set-ups is also very solid. If you can estimate how many people you will have, or it your case you know the max making it even easier, you absolutely KNOW how many set-ups you need. It's not really hard to reach that number. (Example: 32-man bracket = 8 TV min) That's of course just necessity and you can obviously use more.

I think the only thing you didn't touch on is bracket management. Going the extra step and calling 'on-deck' matches is something we've had great success with in the past and something I plan to continue using in the future. What is your opinion of using that?

EDIT: Also I would be happy to lend a hand writing a guide if you want some help. I can absolutely elaborate on anything you'd want me to as well.
 

AlphaZealot

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on deck is good. Also, while tio is a great program, it has made TO's lazy. Some old school mixed with new school tech works wonders. I buy poster boards + sharpies and make the brackets by hand so people don't have to rely on me/my computer to know where the tournament is at. This is especially easy when my gf volunteers to do this step for me, and it looks way prettier in her handwriting.

The TV-to-Person ratio at a tournament should be no more then 1-to-4. and the closer you get to 1-to-2 the better.

People often don't think their 13 inch TVs are any good, but imo those are almost ideal, they work fine for 1v1 and you only need half the setups for 2v2, so they can be used for friendlies during the doubles portion of the tournament. Not to mention they don't take up as much space and they are easy to move around and transport to tournaments.
 

omegawhitemage

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on deck is good. Also, while tio is a great program, it has made TO's lazy. Some old school mixed with new school tech works wonders. I buy poster boards + sharpies and make the brackets by hand so people don't have to rely on me/my computer to know where the tournament is at. This is especially easy when my gf volunteers to do this step for me, and it looks way prettier in her handwriting.

The TV-to-Person ratio at a tournament should be no more then 1-to-4. and the closer you get to 1-to-2 the better.

People often don't think their 13 inch TVs are any good, but imo those are almost ideal, they work fine for 1v1 and you only need half the setups for 2v2, so they can be used for friendlies during the doubles portion of the tournament. Not to mention they don't take up as much space and they are easy to move around and transport to tournaments.
I meant to say 8 TV minimum, whoops.

I've never personally taken TV size into account. I've played on a small TV the entire length of my Smash career and never once minded it. It's exactly as you said, great for singes, friendlies TV for teams. Most people don't care really as long as there is nothing wrong with the TV anyway.

Writing out brackets is about the only thing I've never done or needed to do really. Tournament Maker 2.0 then TIO. I really need to learn how to write things out, but at this point I've stopped showing people the bracket anyway to do my best to eliminate bracket rigging/forfeiting by the players. That's another issue altogether though.
 

AlphaZealot

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This is true, but I'm adding in the following rules at my events, probably gonna make a section called: Player conduct, rules to include
1. No manipulation of the bracket
2. No false reporting of results
3. No excessive delay of matches (some have your mages DQ rule here)
Result of breaking the first two rules is a DQ from the entire tournament. Result of breaking rule 3 is loss of game or loss of set (go to losers).
All rules enforced at the TO's discretion.

In other words: if I think there was rigging, you may get DQ'd and even if you are in the champs oh well. Your prize goes to the next person.

Anyone who has been playing this game in their community a bunch will be able to tell when such things occur. And if you can't tell, then there really isn't much foul, but usually it is quite obvious.

Having the brackets up for everyone to see creates a better atmoshphere imo because players who have been eliminated know what matches to look forward to and when they will occur, so if they know a player who is using the same character as them they can follow them through the tournament and maybe see what they did differently. Without it, often times people become confused between what is a friendly and what is a tournament match.
 

Takeover1806

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md/va
Omega Im laughing my *** off to your sig
is that on youtube??
@ bionic I know how you feel Im going minimize the amount of tournies I go to because of the cost..
When I heard venue fee use to be $3-5 in md/va, I was kinda dissapointed in how things go nowadays
 

omegawhitemage

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This is true, but I'm adding in the following rules at my events, probably gonna make a section called: Player conduct, rules to include
1. No manipulation of the bracket
2. No false reporting of results
3. No excessive delay of matches (some have your mages DQ rule here)
Result of breaking the first two rules is a DQ from the entire tournament. Result of breaking rule 3 is loss of game or loss of set (go to losers).
All rules enforced at the TO's discretion.

In other words: if I think there was rigging, you may get DQ'd and even if you are in the champs oh well. Your prize goes to the next person.

Anyone who has been playing this game in their community a bunch will be able to tell when such things occur. And if you can't tell, then there really isn't much foul, but usually it is quite obvious.

Having the brackets up for everyone to see creates a better atmoshphere imo because players who have been eliminated know what matches to look forward to and when they will occur, so if they know a player who is using the same character as them they can follow them through the tournament and maybe see what they did differently. Without it, often times people become confused between what is a friendly and what is a tournament match.
I might try using your set of rules up and see how that works out instead. I already know who in my region is most likely to do it anyway so that's a lot easier than depriving everyone because of a few. And you're right it really isn't difficult to figure it out, you just need to use common sense.

Omega Im laughing my *** off to your sig
is that on youtube??
I can't seem to find the video anymore, but if I find it I'll send you a link to it.

EDIT: I lied, here it is: http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=16491
 

CT Chia

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Any advice for how to get people to stop playing friendlies?

Furthermore, how to get people ontop of playing their tourney matches and or getting people off friendlies so TVs open up for tourney matches.

What about ppl that start MMs? Cause then god forbid you kick them off when money is on the line *sigh*
 

ETWIST51294

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Captain Falcon
Any advice for how to get people to stop playing friendlies?

Furthermore, how to get people ontop of playing their tourney matches and or getting people off friendlies so TVs open up for tourney matches.

What about ppl that start MMs? Cause then god forbid you kick them off when money is on the line *sigh*
Slap their motha****in *** in the face and tell them "get yo *** off that TV, *****". See, easy solution.
 

AlphaZealot

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Any advice for how to get people to stop playing friendlies?

Furthermore, how to get people ontop of playing their tourney matches and or getting people off friendlies so TVs open up for tourney matches.

What about ppl that start MMs? Cause then god forbid you kick them off when money is on the line *sigh*
Before you begin the tournament:
-Walk around and unplug all controllers
-Make announcements that the tournament is starting, introduce yourself, introduce the people who will be helping, say hey to the veterans and be couteous to the newcomers
-Explain that there will be no friendlies or MM's going on while matches are still to be played. Explain that doing so may result in - DQ or banishment from future events. Make sure they know you are very serious about this, since it is the biggest time waster at large events (not so much small events, since it is much easier to enforce). If it is an MM while brackets is going on, just walk up and unplug their controllers, plug yours in, quit. Bam. They won't be trying that again.
-If you are constantly called people and telling people what TV they play on (done easily courtesy of TIO and also a feature in TM2 if that suites you instead) then when the match is called and the players show up to the TV, they will report back to you that there is a problem
-Have a team of people helping you, that way it is not just you enforcing the rules. Make sure people know the people who are part of this team
-The list goes on. The main thing is you have to stop it at its source. If one person plays friendlies and gets away with it, then others will see this and it will spread like a virus.
-Also, friendlies are not such a big deal if you have a set up ratio of 1-to-4 or better. That way people will be using the tvs for tournaments (pools, there is no way to do friendlies, since you have an assigned pool with 5-8 people all watching the same 2 tvs, brackets, there is no way to do friendlies if you call the first round and then stand bys. Do this 2-3 more times for a 64-128 man bracket, by the time third time you do a round of matches + standbys you will have filtered through most the matches that could be played at peak efficiency and, more importantly, you will have momentum, so people won't **** around cause they will already see how efficiently the tournament is being run).
-Reward at the end of the rainbow:
--At my WaB events, the faster we get done, the faster we can start drinking/eating and doing draft crews
--Other free-entry special post-tournament events can help increase the strength of the community and be a reward for finishing quickly (I find draft crews works best because then the new players and the old players must interact and plan together and they can learn from one another, plus if you are a new player you can get the experience of having many people cheer for you and watching how you play. That said, Low tier or maybe mini-crews or something could also work).
 

omegawhitemage

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Any advice for how to get people to stop playing friendlies?

Furthermore, how to get people ontop of playing their tourney matches and or getting people off friendlies so TVs open up for tourney matches.

What about ppl that start MMs? Cause then god forbid you kick them off when money is on the line *sigh*
lol I got ninja'd by AZ

Getting people on top of tournament matches is simple and it's the basis for us creating our DQ rule. We've had very little issue with utilizing it. You do need to be willing to enforce it though and make everyone aware of it's existence in case people don't know about it. Being strict with it goes a long way. Being willing to DQ M2K or someone else everyone knows goes a long way in people's minds and they tend not to mess around once they hear about that. Friendlies and MM's is the same thing but in reverse. There's no rule for it but threatening to DQ someone if they don't get off a TV does the trick for us.

Sadly a big portion of being a good host comes down to being a **** when you need to which is the one thing I hate about it. But ultimately if you don't let people know there are consequences for not sticking to the rules everyone will just run all over you. There might be another way to do it, but this is the only one I know of that always works.
 

Takeover1806

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md/va
lol I got ninja'd by AZ

Getting people on top of tournament matches is simple and it's the basis for us creating our DQ rule. We've had very little issue with utilizing it. You do need to be willing to enforce it though and make everyone aware of it's existence in case people don't know about it. Being strict with it goes a long way. Being willing to DQ M2K or someone else everyone knows goes a long way in people's minds and they tend not to mess around once they hear about that. Friendlies and MM's is the same thing but in reverse. There's no rule for it but threatening to DQ someone if they don't get off a TV does the trick for us.

Sadly a big portion of being a good host comes down to being a **** when you need to which is the one thing I hate about it. But ultimately if you don't let people know there are consequences for not sticking to the rules everyone will just run all over you. There might be another way to do it, but this is the only one I know of that always works.
yea you are exactly right, I even find this true myself sometime..
Like when I play friendlies & dont want to get off until the match ends..
I know if they unplug my controller or anything else I really cant say nothing because a tourney match is suppose to be going on. So if you remind a person 3 to 4 times to get off & they still want to play, this is the simplest way to get them off without DQ'ing the person.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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Western Mass
I think I'm going to adapt your pay out structure in an attempt to increase the tournament goers in New England. It seems to be falling back a bit.

Good advice in here.
 

Seagull Joe

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Good read. A smaller venue fee or no venue fee is better also. Never enough setups in Md/Va. Like ever. I always bring a setup, but most people just don't. Sometimes I still have to pay venue fee even when I bringa setup.
 

II Bolt II

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This is all very good advice in here and I plan on applying much of this to my upcoming event.

One thing I'd like to add though.. the $10 Venue fee. I for one came into the scene last year when this venue fee was just being applied into the community starting with C3 Cyberclub. Now, since being a Tournament Director, the only places I have run tournaments at have been a House and two different Lan Centers. (Gamepad and my current location, Sage Mantis Game-Haven) Now saying this, its one thing when your run an event at a house, the venue is bound to be cheaper due to it being a private home with only your invites involved.. but now at locations such as C3, Game-haven, Gamepad, and Ultimate Gaming Zone, your dealing with LAN Centers which take away from the owners profit.

Now I know from experience from running events at Gamepad and Game haven that doing these tournaments are actually not beneficial to the owners because we are actually taking from their business since these events usually happen on Saturday. Lets say 40 Smashers come to an event, that's $400 going to venue, minus the payment going into electrical, the money the owner put into getting TV's and wii's with Smash Bros (I can speak on behalf of C3, Gamepad, and Gamehaven when it comes down to the Venue owner dropping money to get setups), time put in to unlocking everything, and TO's cut, granted there is one.

Now the way a Lan Center works, between $5-8 an hour is payed for 60+ people coming in and out of the venue all day, even more during weekends. After saying this, paying $10 to play all day is pretty good compared to dropping the standard rate at a Lan center which is anywhere between $5-8 an hour or $20-30 day passes.

It somewhat bothers me how ungrateful smashers can be that we have places like this, Lan Centers are great venues and most of the time (depending on the owner and the location) the venue is open rather late, the computers can be used, and there are always drinks and plenty of food places within walking distance.. rather than having to drive and waste more gas to get food/drink.
 

AlphaZealot

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My new Ruleset: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208631

Bolt: in all the tournaments I have been to at LAN centers, and I'm speaking from several years experience and easily 20 different tournaments, not once can I remember seeing a customer walk away from the LAN center because it was filled with Smash players. Not. Once. (can any of you remember seeing a customer walk up to the door then turn away cause there were actually people in the LAN center?). They are not losing business, only supplementing it. The cost to run 8 tvs + wiis for 12 hours is <$10 in electricity. LAN centers do charge by the hour but it is rare anyone pays that, they will instead by a month or year membership at a much, much cheaper rate.

The TO's for local events should not get a cut. Simply have free venue and free entry fee. That is essentially worth $25-$30. That is your cut for putting the work into running the event and I have not heard anyone complain about such expenditures.

It is an issue of supply and demand, and for whatever reason MD/VA has decided to keep going to LAN centers instead of other venues. Church's (as in their facilities, not the actual church), college rec rooms, and houses use to be fairly common venues back in the day and we could go to these almost for free. If 1-2 TO's found a venue for free or nearly free and decided to hold tournaments once a month in MD/VA then suddenly you would have competition for these LAN centers. If they don't want their supposedly incurred cost of buying tvs/wiis to go to waste, they would use competitive pricing. A one time cost of a wii, especially since this wii is likely purchased more as an accessory to the LAN center and not specifically for running Smash tournaments, is not an excuse to jack prices to $10 for the lifetime of the operation. I can't speak to the other venues but at least in the case of C3 I've seen these rising costs as more a product of greed (the Smash community being a "cash cow" that can be "milked" until we are run dry, which is what is happening in this once proud region) and less of improved service.

MD/VA is one of the only places in the country that is almost exclusively LAN centers now, and it is hurting the community, not helping. This should be clear, especially considering several players have already indicated the $10 fees were why they stopped going to tournaments.

LAN centers have every right to charge whatever they want to have a tournament there. No big deal.

We though have every right to find a better solution for cheaper. It has been done before and can be done again. I for one and really hoping I'll secure a venue for free for a few tournaments this summer in MD/VA. All I gotta do is ask my church, chances are more then good that the answer will be yes.
 

II Bolt II

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I can see where your coming from Alpha on many perspectives, but I have seen people walk away from a full venue. Lan Centers such as Gamepad have a set amount of TV's. 40+ if I'm not mistaken.. during these Smash events half of the venue is used to hold the Tournaments while the other half is for the locals for the Lan Center. Now being that half is used for the events, 20 TV's are down, which takes 20+ possible customers. When I ran Events at Gamepad the Lan Center was always full, and capacity was always at its maximum simply because it happens to be a busy Lan Center (not so much anymore since Game-Haven opened up). You may have had years of experience with these Lan Centers, but VA is also home to a large community of FPS players that happen to take up space in these Lan Centers, especially as these centers begin to sponsor such players.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I see where your coming from, just from my experience and from being good friends with the Owner of Both Game-haven and Gamepad, I knew the financial situation as well as how much money was coming in and out. I plan to find another venue as the weather gets nicer for cheaper bi-weeklies since Chu is no longer in that position, so again, this read has been helpful.
 
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