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Alola's Arboreal Archer - The Decidueye for Smash Thread (RIP the dream)

TreeBranch

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I really think Decidueye would be the best gen 7 newcomer. He seems like he'd have so much potential though flight, arrows, and ghost type moves. As of now though, I'm unsure if he's gonna make it. I don't believe Vergeben, but I never really thought a gen 7 newcomer was guarenteed anyway. I really hope I'm wrong though. I know I'll be disappointed with any other Pokemon.
 

MattX20

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I really think Decidueye would be the best gen 7 newcomer. He seems like he'd have so much potential though flight, arrows, and ghost type moves. As of now though, I'm unsure if he's gonna make it. I don't believe Vergeben, but I never really thought a gen 7 newcomer was guarenteed anyway. I really hope I'm wrong though. I know I'll be disappointed with any other Pokemon.
Indeed, Decidueye has so much potential.
 

L2 Sentinel

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Decidueye isn't deconfirmed yet. No one from the Rowlet line was shown as a pokeball assist in the latest direct. I still believe Decidueye has a strong chance of making it in as a playable fighter.
 

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Hey guys, just wanted to drop in and show my support for Decidueye! Out of all the potential Nintendo newcomers, Decidueye is definitely my most wanted (though I would low-key settle for Rowlet); Grass types are my favorite out of all the Pokemon types and I say it's the starter type that should get some time in the limelight the most. Aside from that, I believe a ghost archer shtick would be a really fun and unique way to play Smash if done right.

So Decidueye in Smash? Why not?!
 

WampaWreckage

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How do you do, fellow kids?

I wanted to let you guys know that I'm all in as a supporter for Decidueye in Smash! I love that he's a Grass/Ghost Bird that's also an archer. I think he'd be a perfect fit for Smash Ultimate, and a lot of people call him a shoe in just because he's popular, but I think his appeal rests in his uniqueness he can bring to the table! I'd love for him to join and I'd definitely consider maining him if he was revealed.

And if it's all right, I'd love to be in the support list!


P.S. I know it's currently not looking too well with this Vergeben rumour floating around, but I think Sakurai would see Decidueye's potential and want to make him a fighter!
 
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Even with Simon confirmed, I still believe Decidueye could make it in.
He was a pretty safe prediction anyway, imo.
 
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Even with Simon confirmed, I still believe Decidueye could make it in.
He was a pretty safe prediction anyway, imo.
Simon was in no way a safe prediction, dude. I want Decidueye badly, but let's not resort to revisionism.
 

MattX20

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Simon was in no way a safe prediction, dude. I want Decidueye badly, but let's not resort to revisionism.
Actually, his leak beyond Simon has proven nothing so far. Isabelle hasn't been seen at all. If she were an echo fighter of the Villager, you would think she would be top priority. Right now, I'm getting serious Gematsu leak flashbacks.
 

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Actually, his leak beyond Simon has proven nothing so far. Isabelle hasn't been seen at all. If she were an echo fighter of the Villager, you would think she would be top priority. Right now, I'm getting serious Gematsu leak flashbacks.
Personally I think it's because Isabelle isn't an echo at all. I've always banked on her being fully unique.

My point was that Simon Belmont was never a "safe prediction."
 
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Simon was in no way a safe prediction, dude. I want Decidueye badly, but let's not resort to revisionism.
Before E3? Not at all. After Snake and the Bomberman AT, though? Yeah, it would've been a safe assumption.
Sure, everyone was already talking about him because of Verge, but I'm sure he would've been viewed as likely even if it wasn't for him.
 

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Before E3? Not at all. After Snake and the Bomberman AT, though? Yeah, it would've been a safe assumption.
Sure, everyone was already talking about him because of Verge, but I'm sure he would've been viewed as likely even if it wasn't for him.
You're moving the goalposts. That's literally hindsight bias.

He leaked Simon long before E3, so no, it was absolutely not a safe bet. Konami ensured it wasn't a safe bet, because getting Snake back wasn't even a safe bet. That's like saying Greninja was a safe bet in Smash 4 by taking into account his anime prominence that happened long after his reveal. Greninja wasn't a safe bet, and neither was Simon.

Vergeben absolutely has accurate info. Decidueye's only hope at this point in time is if his info on the Alola Pokémon specifically is incorrect. He said the source wasn't as verified as his others, after all, but then again Mimikyu is a confirmed NPC, and he said it wouldn't be playable.

Signs are definitely pointing to Incineroar, but since even Vergeben said Incineroar is the shakiest bit of info he has, Decidueye at least has a chance. No need to make it seem more likely than it is, though, by falsely stating Simon is anything but a point in Vergeben's favor.
 
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You're moving the goalposts. That's literally hindsight bias.

He leaked Simon long before E3, so no, it was absolutely not a safe bet. Konami ensured it wasn't a safe bet, because getting Snake back wasn't even a safe bet. That's like saying Greninja was a safe bet in Smash 4 by taking into account his anime prominence that happened long after his reveal. Greninja wasn't a safe bet, and neither was Simon.

Vergeben absolutely has accurate info. Decidueye's only hope at this point in time is if his info on the Alola Pokémon specifically is incorrect. He said the source wasn't as verified as his others, after all, but then again Mimikyu is a confirmed NPC, and he said it wouldn't be playable.

Signs are definitely pointing to Incineroar, but since even Vergeben said Incineroar is the shakiest bit of info he has, Decidueye at least has a chance. No need to make it seem more likely than it is, though, by falsely stating Simon is anything but a point in Vergeben's favor.
You're missing my point. I'm saying that Simon would've been predicted after E3 even if it wasn't for the leak. I know I would've predicted him, at least.
 

MattX20

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You're moving the goalposts. That's literally hindsight bias.

He leaked Simon long before E3, so no, it was absolutely not a safe bet. Konami ensured it wasn't a safe bet, because getting Snake back wasn't even a safe bet. That's like saying Greninja was a safe bet in Smash 4 by taking into account his anime prominence that happened long after his reveal. Greninja wasn't a safe bet, and neither was Simon.

Vergeben absolutely has accurate info. Decidueye's only hope at this point in time is if his info on the Alola Pokémon specifically is incorrect. He said the source wasn't as verified as his others, after all, but then again Mimikyu is a confirmed NPC, and he said it wouldn't be playable.

Signs are definitely pointing to Incineroar, but since even Vergeben said Incineroar is the shakiest bit of info he has, Decidueye at least has a chance. No need to make it seem more likely than it is, though, by falsely stating Simon is anything but a point in Vergeben's favor.
That, and his sources have been wrong in the past. Most recently, the infamous Dragonball FighterZ characters/DLC fiasco. So, his sources could be completely wrong about Decidueye and possibly only saw early development bits.
 

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Vergeben getting Simon right shows that his first initial leak was likely legitimate. Sure he could've guessed it right, but I think saying he had accurate information prior to E3 is a lot more likely. But Vergeben getting Simon and the rest correct has no weight over Isabelle or the Gen VII Pokemon, since they seem to have come from different sources. Now, Isabelle may have come from the same source since Vergeben feels so strongly about her, but the fact that she was mentioned separately sometime after the initial leaks leave her 'source' up in the air.

Vergeben's 'sources' have claimed that the Gen VII Pokemon isn't Decidueye or Lycanroc, but even Vergeben himself seems to feel shaky on those claims. Helps show that the source behind the Gen VII Pokemon newcomer is different, and thus may not be accurate. Vergeben has gotten some right, but has also gotten plenty wrong in the past. Mimikyu getting deconfirmed doesn't hold much weight for me, either, since I never saw Mimikyu as a likely playable character. As far as I'm concerned, the Gen VII Pokemon is still between Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Incineroar. The only three choices I've ever really seen as viable.
 

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You're missing my point. I'm saying that Simon would've been predicted after E3 even if it wasn't for the leak. I know I would've predicted him, at least.
Then that's a wholly irrelevant hypothetical. Being able to be predicted after the fact isn't a point against Vergeben no matter how you slice it.

That, and his sources have been wrong in the past. Most recently, the infamous Dragonball FighterZ characters/DLC fiasco. So, his sources could be completely wrong about Decidueye and possibly only saw early development bits.
Could the Alola thing be inaccurate? Yeah. There's always a chance. But as of now it's abundantly clear Vergeben has insider info. His insistence that Ridley would be an E3 reveal and that Snake and the Ice Climbers were back basically proves he saw the E3 demo way ahead of time, as that'd match up perfectly. Ice Climbers, Snake, No Cuts, and Simon have all been accurate so far, so as of now we have no reason to believe things like Isabelle are false. But because Vergeben expressed some slight doubt at the Incineroar source, there's still a chance.

It should absolutely not be used as a point against Vergeben though.
 

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I wouldn't even argue Ridley was obvious without Verge, let alone Simon.

People are overestimating how insightful they really are. Saying Simon was an obvious choice because Konami was brought back to the equation is like saying Slime from Dragon Quest was an obvious choice because Cloud is still in Smash. It only makes sense if you can rationalize it in your head with a popular source to back you up.
 
D

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Alright, maybe I'm grasping at straws.
For now I'm just gonna doubt Verge's source about Decidueye and co.. There's no way giving up on Decidueye so easily.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I wouldn't even have guessed "No Cuts"
Vergeben definitely had real info, but we know the source for that is different from the source of Alola, so I doubt it's relevant
 

L2 Sentinel

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“Do you know anything about who and what all will be revealed as part of that?
I ask because I've recently heard of some characters outside of Simon, Isabelle, and the Gen 7 Pokemon that isn't Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu (I have one source who straight up said it's Incineroar).
I also heard Donkey Kong isn't getting any new reps on day 1/at launch, but that still seems pretty crazy if that part is actually true and they passed on King K. Rool for now.
Anyways, I'm curious if you know anything about the Direct's contents when it comes to what it will be revealed and if it lines up with what I have heard recently.

Sent by: Vergeben on 8/7/2018 6:02:11 AM
The bold part puts the validity of the entire leak into question. Even if Vergeben tries to say that he doesn't necessarily believe that part himself, it still means his source was wrong. If they can be wrong about King K. Rool, they can be wrong about the Pokemon newcomer.
 

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I feel we should discuss Decidueye's current chances now as they seemed to have changed quite a bit from even a year ago due to the new information we've gotten.
 

RandomAce

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I feel we should discuss Decidueye's current chances now as they seemed to have changed quite a bit from even a year ago due to the new information we've gotten.
I think a lot of people have talked about it over the past months.

The general consensus is that Decidueye is possible, but not likely since Incineroar and Lycanroc have seem to have gotten the best of both worlds (Though Incineroar isn’t that interesting) and are considered more likely to get in.

Sort of sad since a lot of people have been beating Decidueye to no end and isn’t at the top than when he once were. Although alot of people here on Smashboards definitely don’t seem to want Incineroar despite that he is considered likely.
 
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The bold part puts the validity of the entire leak into question. Even if Vergeben tries to say that he doesn't necessarily believe that part himself, it still means his source was wrong. If they can be wrong about King K. Rool, they can be wrong about the Pokemon newcomer.
You realize the DK thing came from a completely different source that he never put his faith in, right?
 

MattX20

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You realize the DK thing came from a completely different source that he never put his faith in, right?
Speaking of sources, supposedly a post on Gamefaqs claimed Vergeben or someone else claimed a leak for one of the remaining newcomers was under the codename "dancer" possibly implying Shantae. I'm not sure of it's validity and I'm having difficulty finding it
 

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Speaking of sources, supposedly a post on Gamefaqs claimed Vergeben or someone else claimed a leak for one of the remaining newcomers was under the codename "dancer" possibly implying Shantae. I'm not sure of it's validity and I'm having difficulty finding it
Oricorio though. :p
 

MattX20

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Oricorio though. :p
Pfft. Still though, after the bombshell of the Shovel Knight AT, I wasn't really expecting to potentially expect Shantae for the base roster. I figured she would be a prime DLC candidate.
 

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Pfft. Still though, after the bombshell of the Shovel Knight AT, I wasn't really expecting to potentially expect Shantae for the base roster. I figured she would be a prime DLC candidate.
Is there any source showing Vergeben actually said that though? Code names aren't his MO.
 

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Rowlet was my starter in Moon, and now that Mimikyu is deconfirmed, Decidueye is probably my most wanted (feasible) gen 7 Pokemon.
 

L2 Sentinel

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You realize the DK thing came from a completely different source that he never put his faith in, right?
How do you know it was a different source? We know he didn't trust it, but I see nothing saying that it was only one source that said no DK rep, and that that source had nothing to say about Pokemon. Also, if it was just one guy that he didn't trust, why did he include it in the leak at all? "I heard there is no DK rep, but that sounds nuts so maybe there is a DK rep." to me, is a non-committal way of making a bold statement. "I predict this, but that could be wrong" means he gets credit if he's right without risking anything if he's wrong. I don't trust the leak.

Also, the wording of the leak sounds like he was telling us who would be revealed in the latest Direct. He said Simon, Isabelle and the Gen7 Pokemon. He got one right out of three. Predicting Simon alone doesn't impress me. If he also predicted Richter, then I'd be paying attention.
 
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I wouldnt mind Decidueye, but only if they have his shiny as a pallet swap
 

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I'd say if there was going to be a gen 7 Pokémon rep then decidueye would be what most people are 'expecting'. However I've got a feeling rather than a 'Pokémon' gen 7 rep, they're going to use a human much like the Pokémon trainer. Keeping with the villains theme, they'll feature one of the antagonist of Pokémon. N? Team aqua/magma? Or perhaps the villain that was in the original and re-introduced in gen 7 and is featured in the upcoming Let's go Pikachu/Eevee. I think that would be a far better choice that just one of the starters for Gen 7. I think you know who I mean.
 

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How do you know it was a different source? We know he didn't trust it, but I see nothing saying that it was only one source that said no DK rep, and that that source had nothing to say about Pokemon. Also, if it was just one guy that he didn't trust, why did he include it in the leak at all? "I heard there is no DK rep, but that sounds nuts so maybe there is a DK rep." to me, is a non-committal way of making a bold statement. "I predict this, but that could be wrong" means he gets credit if he's right without risking anything if he's wrong. I don't trust the leak.

Also, the wording of the leak sounds like he was telling us who would be revealed in the latest Direct. He said Simon, Isabelle and the Gen7 Pokemon. He got one right out of three. Predicting Simon alone doesn't impress me. If he also predicted Richter, then I'd be paying attention.
He later said that the guy who said "no DK" was a known BSer. He was asking loz in a private message whether he heard anything about it to corroborate it. Loz was a **** and leaked the private message.

Vergeben didn't even have the intention of making that public. He never trusted it because it was information from a known liar who occasionally gets good info sprinkled with lies. This wasn't the same case as "non-Decidueye, non-Lycanroc Alola Pokémon." He was much more confident in that source.

And let's not rewrite history to say Simon was an easy guess. Vergeben is legit and it's time we accept it. Decidueye's only chance at this point is a Gematsu-esque outdated issue.
 

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I've seen countless "leaks" predicting Simon. Are we to ignore everything they got wrong just because they got that one thing right? Ten minutes of research on the guy's track record shows he does get a lot of things right (some are far more impressive than guessing Simon), but he also gets a ton of things wrong. His word is not gospel. Not all of his sources are good.
 

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I've seen countless "leaks" predicting Simon. Are we to ignore everything they got wrong just because they got that one thing right? Ten minutes of research on the guy's track record shows he does get a lot of things right (some are far more impressive than guessing Simon), but he also gets a ton of things wrong. His word is not gospel. Not all of his sources are good.
The countless "leaks" came long after Vergeben. They were piggybacking. Vergeben was the one who brought Simon into the spotlight.

What he got wrong for other games is entirely irrelevant here. Everything he's said for this game, as of now, has turned out to be true.
 
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L2 Sentinel

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Simon has been predicted/leaked since the Smash4 ballot closed. Believe what you want, but please forgive me if I'm skeptical of a guy who isn't a primary source and has a history of making wrong predictions.
 

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Simon has been predicted/leaked since the Smash4 ballot closed. Believe what you want, but please forgive me if I'm skeptical of a guy who isn't a primary source and has a history of making wrong predictions.
Show me literally any shred of evidence toward the Simon thing, please.

I was there. Simon was rarely if ever brought up because of 1) Konami, and 2) Snake was still gone.
 

L2 Sentinel

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Show me literally any shred of evidence toward the Simon thing, please.

I was there. Simon was rarely if ever brought up because of 1) Konami, and 2) Snake was still gone.
No thanks. I'm not going to waste my time digging for stuff I've seen sporadically in the past couple years (and may not even be accessible anymore) just to win an argument with you over something this stupid. You believe a leaker. I don't. Why can't that just be enough?
 

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No thanks. I'm not going to waste my time digging for stuff I've seen sporadically in the past couple years (and may not even be accessible anymore) just to win an argument with you over something this stupid. You believe a leaker. I don't. Why can't that just be enough?
Because spreading false information makes us, as the Decidueye fanbase, look like desperate conspiracy theorists.
 

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As I said earlier, despite being a massive Ridley supporter, I don't think anyone would've assumed he was in unless Verge backed him up. A lot of people were still hung up on the "too big" comments. Similarly, a lot of people thought Konami wouldn't cooperate, so Snake and Simon would never be on the roster.

I'm supporting Lycanroc, so I can get why people would question Verge's predictions. Even though he's gotten a lot of things right, I'm questioning the legitimacy of his source for Incineroar and how multiple people can debunk Decidueye despite not knowing who the new rep is. Still, that doesn't take away from Verge's record with this game so far. He hasn't been wrong yet, and a lack of information doesn't discredit his credibility.
 
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