Allowing No Fatigue/No Forced Switch PT Hacks in Tourney Play

[metaXzero]

Seriously, all I'm going to point out is this hack just buffs a character that is kind of bad because he has a ****ty gimmick. Too bad, so sad.

My god. Why do THESE replies keep coming? Regular PT is still selectable. It adds 3 "new" characters, but PT is still there.

 

[Steeler]

Seriously, all I'm going to point out is this hack just buffs a character that is kind of bad because he has a ****ty gimmick. Too bad, so sad.

you just don't want to get ***** by solo squirtle.
ilu cameron
i see what you did there and I'M NOT IMPRESSED
<3

 

[Chimera]

This would be unfair. I don't think any character modding hacks should be allowed in tournament play. I' not totally against no tripping, but this is going way too far. Deal with the character you are given. End of story.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Okay Fine, my example was exaggerated. However it is true they may have unintended consequences, that have not yet been discovered, there may be bugs.

Hardly, most hacks are tested beforehand. Repeatedly.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

This would be unfair. I don't think any character modding hacks should be allowed in tournament play. I' not totally against no tripping, but this is going way too far. Deal with the character you are given. End of story.

I agree with this guy. Tripping makes the whole game more fair. All this would do is buff PT. This is dumb.

 

[Steeler]

what about a rule that states you can only use one variation of PT per set? ie if you choose charizard first match, you cannot use PT/squirtle/ivysaur for the next two. that way if you want to use more than one of the pokemon, you have to actually use PT to do so. encourages solo players who like the other Pokemon to learn PT and encourages PT players to keep playing PT, all while still providing the option of solo only to those who don't want anything to do with the other two.

interesting to think about.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

what about a rule that states you can only use one variation of PT per set? ie if you choose charizard first match, you cannot use PT/squirtle/ivysaur for the next two. that way if you want to use more than one of the pokemon, you have to actually use PT to do so. encourages solo players who like the other Pokemon to learn PT and encourages PT players to keep playing PT, all while still providing the option of solo only to those who don't want anything to do with the other two.

interesting to think about.

That would prevent it from being a buff to PT players, so much as putting a few extra options in the character select screen. On paper, it sounds like a good idea, but one could also say that it defeats the usually-unfortunate gimmicks that the various Pokemon suffer from.

(For the sake of argument...) Think about this: What if PT was top-tier without fatigue, but fatigue was enough of a problem to prevent him from being as good as he could be. Take away that problem, and balance issues could be thrown out of whack.

I think the same thing could apply now, even if PT is merely decent. It's just easier to get the point across when it's argued from a top-tier perspective.

Either way, it's not -that- big of a deal. I would go to a tournament with this on, even if I planned on using nothing but Wario or something. It'd never be a tournament standard, because expecting everyone to hack their system is unrealistic.

 

[Palpi]

That would make the counterpicking "BUFF" unrealistic. That is a good thing to think about Steeler. Thought you would still have the option of counter-picking with a pokemon 2nd round if you didn't play a pokemon first round which I guess could be a buff, but you still would stick for him for potential round 2.

 

[cj.Shark]

This is not true. You should pretty much never be in a position where you can easily be CP'd against without taking any victories.

Let's say I am a PT player in a tournament with these codes active. It's time for me to face someone.

First match - I start with PT because while I might miss out on having one Pokemon with a good advantage over my opponent, there's a larger chance that I could have a poor fight. PT's whole promising aspect is being able to CP in a match and having the ability to adjust his fights in a way that the better Pokemon get used more than the others. My opponent picks his character. It would be unwise to start off with a hacked Pokemon because I could easily be placed in a very bad position in this match or the next one.

I win and I stay PT because, again, I can't really be forced into a "bad match-up" (as in, there really aren't many, if any, fights where PT overall does significantly worse than a single Pokemon), OR I lose and I can CP with the hack.

Second match - I'm either PT again or I'm a hacked Pokemon. Either way, you look at the advantage that PT has and you will either have a match-up of that degree or a BETTER one (because if you lost, you would be using the Pokemon best suited for your opponent). Here's a huge tactical advantage that PT and those three can have over other opponents.

If this is my second win, I advance. If this is my first win, then this means I already CP'd with a hacked Pokemon (unless I lost to someone like King Dedede, who shares the same advantage over each Pokemon) and I can now go back to PT in order to ensure that I have access to my best Pokemon and I play normally (or I can gamble with a hacked Pokemon, but my opponent can CP against it). If this is my second lost, then I end here.

Third match - If I won the previous match, I am PT. If I lost the previous match, I am a hacked Pokemon and therefore I should have a better match-up than PT does.



The reason why I believe this is a significant advantage for PT is because you can either play PT or you can just CP with the best Pokemon when you KNOW who your opponent will use. If I only had PT to work with, I wouldn't have the ability to CP with a single Pokemon and maintain that advantage. To me, this isn't quite the same as just CPing with any other character because you're using, in essence, the same moveset that part of PT has, and you're now eliminating the two inferior movesets that would otherwise bring harm to PT if they were still in play, since you have to go through at least two inferior Pokemon to reach the third.

thats the same as maining something like snake-falco-dedede. You can change your cp anyway. so why play dedede vs Gnw When you can pick snake?. Basically this does not break the CP system because all your doing is adding in characters.

basically all that fatigue and forced switch does is remove a gimmick. it doesnt rebalance the characters in a sense that they are seperate characters as of whole.

 

[Brinzy]

How many times am I going to have to say this?

It's not the same as CPing with other characters. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, alone, are not changed. This hack, however, means they don't have to go through two other movesets when they lose a stock in order to get back to whoever they are. With other characters, they have one moveset (or two if you're Zelda/Sheik), so when they die, they do not change movesets. PT does change movesets. This hack makes three movesets which were not designed to be played like the others suddenly be like everyone else by having a single moveset, and now they lose the affliction of having to go through two other movesets. That's why it is different from everyone else.

"But why not? Why can't it be done? They lose the other two Pokemon. Also, who cares about what PT was supposed to do? Designer's intent argument lolol" (preemptive argument because I know someone's going to quote me and use at least part of this)

In many fighting games, there are characters that damage themselves to use certain moves or even whole movesets. (Tira and Yoshimitsu in SC, for example.) You don't remove it just because there's no "downside" to it for anyone else since you're still fighting those two. You don't remove things like this just because it's a ****ty flaw of some attack/character.

Also, the loss of the other two Pokemon is more beneficial than it is harmful. The whole point of this hack is to maximize the use of one Pokemon without having to deal with two other Pokemon and leaving yourself vulnerable. I mean, you could do it with real PT - lose the Pokemon you want; and fight your way back to it. People don't like to fight their way back to the Pokemon they want, so they thought of this. However, the argument that they lose two other Pokemon is not helpful to those who want this at all because the loss of Bullet Seed or whatever is a minor loss as compared to the gain of being able to completely avoid Ivysaur to get to a moveset that you, in your current opinion, find superior to Ivysaur's. If you're trying to avoid two movesets in a match, then why the hell would it be a loss to you for not having access to them!? You don't have to deal with them anymore!

Also, it's not a designer's intent argument, for those of you who are still confused as to what I'm arguing - this is a pure development of PT. A "feature." Designer's intent is being able to play on 75m. A development would be creating 75m. PT does not have this hack as a development and does not deserve it because of the reasons I've repeated ad nauseum in this thread. If PT had the option, then I would be making a designer's intent argument, but he does not.

P.S. I have not argued that it "breaks" anything a single time in this thread and would appreciate it if people quit acting like I'm going off of this notion. (I'm not singling you out.)

what about a rule that states you can only use one variation of PT per set? ie if you choose charizard first match, you cannot use PT/squirtle/ivysaur for the next two. that way if you want to use more than one of the pokemon, you have to actually use PT to do so. encourages solo players who like the other Pokemon to learn PT and encourages PT players to keep playing PT, all while still providing the option of solo only to those who don't want anything to do with the other two.

interesting to think about.

It doesn't matter that much, because now I can do something like Charizard/Falco or Wario/Ivysaur. They still do not have to go through the other two movesets. That rule would inhibit only the options of someone who only competed with PT, and the sensible thing here would be to just use PT because each Pokemon can be hard-countered as far as I know.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

why is this still being argued? people are still too stupid to hack their wiis, and the over zealous insane anti hack people even think no tripping is a bad idea as it would make DASHING VIABLE ZOMYFKINGGOD

thread should be closed imo

 

[Yuna]

why is this still being argued? people are still too stupid to hack their wiis, and the over zealous insane anti hack people even think no tripping is a bad idea as it would make DASHING VIABLE ZOMYFKINGGOD

Dashing it perfectly viable. You just run the risk of tripping. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it game-breaking? No. It's a calculated risk, a risk/reward thing.

 

[Nybb]

I don't understand the people who are so staunchly anti-hacking. Using cheats in games like Brawl has no impact on your wii at all; anyone who says otherwise is ignorant and has never actually done it. Pretty much everybody in my local scene has homebrew on their wii. Nintendo will never beat the hackers who are actually passionate about gaming; plus Nintendo doesn't give two sh*ts about competitive gaming, so it's not like they are monitoring us and will shut down homebrew if it becomes too popular or something.

/rant

On topic, I really don't see why (if we can surmount the practical barriers of implementing this into tournaments) this shouldn't happen. It's not like three more characters who are mid-tierish at best are going to hugely change the metagame. It's just letting a few people play the character that Sakurai taunted them with but then crippled beyond viability.

And response the argument of "This would essentially remove regular PT because nobody would play him as new PT is better" is absurd. People play bad characters. Otherwise everyone would be playing MK/Snake.

 

[Brinzy]

Did you bother reading the whole thread and the arguments presented before going off on those tangents?

On the slight chance that you did, who cares if it doesn't change the metagame? There are other reasons that point to why this should not be allowed.



By the way, those of you whining with the whole, "oh my gawd they're so ______ wah waah waaaah" need to stop posting in this thread because you're not doing anything but being a nuisance.