Air Dodge in this game

[Artmastercorey]

One of the biggest things that confused me in this game is how bad the defensive options are in this game like air dodging/getting up from ledge, ect. Air dodging is slow and leaves you vulnerable for an incredible long time unlike previous smash games. Characters attacks are so fast yet the defensive options seem unfair in this game. I keep trying to figure out why did Sakurai make it this way? Do you feel this new system is actually beneficial?

 

[GhostM]

Ultimate’s pacing benefits every character, since they can attack faster and overall have less ending lag on their moves, but not all attacks are quick, since some have large amounts of end lag. This explains why you can jot out moves quickly. Airdodging was balanced in this game to be utilized solely as a way to avoid an attack, which is why it leaves you vulnerable for a long time. I suppose that they didn’t want it as an option to be spammed like how Brawl and Smash 4 did it, but wanted it to be a viable option that could still be punished by an opponent.

The defensive options have been changed to promote a more aggressive style instead of spamming dodge, which increases the lag in between dodges. This was made to help increase the pace of the game, and would mean that you would have to put more thought into your dodges instead of just spamming it over and over. All characters have a defense option of using perfect shield that can allow you to avoid attacks by opponents by leaving them open to attacks, which again, increases the pace of the game by giving another defense option instead of just shielding/rolling from the attack.

I can sort of agree with the ledge options since most of the time they can be read quite easily with characters like Snake who can cover the many options of ledge, but I feel like mixing up your ledge options will allow you to be unpredictable and escape the ledge trap situations.

 

[Ice-N-Space]

Ultimate likes to fix things that aren't broken like the defensive moves, Peach's grabs, taunts and smash ball attacks.

 

[Silask20]

Some characters are doomed once theyre off the stage vs a cheesey player. (Yes cheesey if you take advantage of this to the extreme extent) but most can recover pretty easily. Althought all it takes is one simple read to what you’ll do next to get you back off stage

 

[Sean²]

Defensive options, in a perfect world, should not be preferable to offensive options, and vice versa. I think they tried to make them about equal in Ultimate versus the imbalance between the two in the older titles. Brawl had good airdodges and shields, to the point where advancing upon someone was a detriment as you'd almost always get shieldgrabbed. Melee has bad airdodges and shields, to the point where choosing a defensive option beyond good DI when being comboed will generally get you punished harder than just eating the combo and DIing.

However, due to the nature of the game, people find other ways to be defensive beyond the built-in defense options. Retreating is still almost always preferable to advancing, and even though there is a fast pace, a lot of the time both players are still being defensive in most ways until they're outside of neutral. Raw defense is still almost always preferable to raw offense.

So, the change to airdodges doesn't bother me, since I can basically play how I want and not worry about being shieldgrabbed on every offensive option that I choose. It bothers me more that so many powerful attacks are safe on shield and unpunishable on whiff. You have to wait for an option after they whiff the attack or just eat the shield damage. I find that aspect of the game the most frustrating.

 

[DemonQueenEtna]

Why is it cheesy to kill characters off stage lol

 

[Silask20]

Why is it cheesy to kill characters off stage lol

when im fighting someone who i can see isn’t very good at getting their feet back on the ground ill back off and let them get their footing again so we can continue our fight. Unless this person is all around a bad player then ill end it asap for both our sakes.

Sometimes good players can be taken out with a lucky spike, or reading their recovery. But it always feels cheesey to be on either end of that.

Lucas who spam pk freeze as soon as youre off stage for example, some characters have no answer for that. donkey kong, bowser, ganon to name a few. As a bowser main i usually dont have to much of an issue baiting them with a fast tall into an UP B for a quick recover but ultimately if they read that, im dead. Like... thats it.

Grats you got me off stage and i died at 40% because i cant defend myself. Cheese

 

[DemonQueenEtna]

I main Puff (and G&W) and my game is based around edge guarding or rest setups. Why would I want to stay and trade with a heavy or a characters that's faster than me? Feels fairly ridiculous to expect me to sacrifice one of the main tools in my armoury.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

when im fighting someone who i can see isn’t very good at getting their feet back on the ground ill back off and let them get their footing again so we can continue our fight. Unless this person is all around a bad player then ill end it asap for both our sakes.

Sometimes good players can be taken out with a lucky spike, or reading their recovery. But it always feels cheesey to be on either end of that.

Lucas who spam pk freeze as soon as youre off stage for example, some characters have no answer for that. donkey kong, bowser, ganon to name a few. As a bowser main i usually dont have to much of an issue baiting them with a fast tall into an UP B for a quick recover but ultimately if they read that, im dead. Like... thats it.

Grats you got me off stage and i died at 40% because i cant defend myself. Cheese

Eh, it's fine if you and your opponent want to play like that, but killing off stage is a very valid tactic when you have the advantage. Specially in a tournament when you have to be pragmatic.

The game was built from the beginning around the condition of launching your opponents off stage and then preventing from coming back.