AiB sponsorship thread.

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
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4,781
#1
I'm tried of waiting for the last person to vote, I think it's dandan and it doesn't sound like he even wants to vote.

Anyway based on the polling thread it looks like the majority agrees that we should try both. I have no problem with that and I doubt anyone who voted singularly for either option cares either.

So what do we do now leaders? Make a thread on the regular forums saying AiB is backroom sponsored? We need specific steps or whatever.

Sorry I didn't ask for permission for this thread.
 
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#2
TBH I think we should ask the community if they'll be interested first.

It'll kind of look bad if we sponsor it, and then nobody does it. I mean, it's not like the AiB ladder hasn't been around already.

I'm saying this mostly because I kind of expect the ladder to flop lol. The ladder has already died after being open for like a week, and I doubt Backroom sponsorship will make too significant of a difference.
 

SheerMadness

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#3
Anything we do is in danger of flopping.

And Gav advertising on kaillera the last two weeks is not a good indication of what will happen to AiB if we sponsor it lololol. Come on, it's gav. There was basically no organized movement to make AiB active again. Just one rogue, notorious troll who had pretty decent success doing so all things considered.

Gav single handedly got people interested in it again over the past few weeks. And again, it's GAV. Imagine what we can do with backroom sponsorship and proper advertising.
 
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#4
Anything we do is in danger of flopping.
Sure, but asking the public if they're interested reduces the risk, duh. If nobody seems interested when we ask, then we won't have to waste time and effort sponsoring something that'll definitely fail.

And Gav advertising on kaillera the last two weeks is not a good indication of what will happen to AiB if we sponsor it lololol. Come on, it's gav. There was basically no organized movement to make AiB active again. Just one rogue, notorious troll who had pretty decent success doing so all things considered.

Gav single handedly got people interested in it again over the past few weeks. And again, it's GAV. Imagine what we can do with backroom sponsorship and proper advertising.
Well, I'm pretty sure that with Gav's advertising and Koro's thread, most people were aware of it. Plenty of people signed up for it, it's just that nobody really played much, which has nothing to do with Gav's reputation. Besides, I don't think people were like, "That ladder looks legit, but oh noes, GAV is advertising it, so I'm not going to join".
 

SheerMadness

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#5
Koro's thread got locked in like a day. Can't really count Koro's thread, it was a very poor effort. He just went ahead and made if before the backroom came to any kind of conclusion so It wasn't backed by anyone, including myself.

I think you're reaching here Star King. Using a thread that got locked after 6 replies and 1 person (gav) advertising on kaillera as examples is not a good indication of how this ladder is going to fare.

What's the deal here leaders? It's already been agreed to that we should give it a try. Can I make a backroom sponsored thread on the regular ssb64 forums?

Let's get this thing started.
 
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#6
I'm indifferent to this.

Sponsorship will make little to no difference, as people either dislike or don't care about the concept of the backroom. Say it's sponsored if you want, the general consensus suggests nobody will care, and Surri is already mad at me.
 
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#8
It was a good idea, but it obviously crashed. There was a clear faction who ridiculed it, some of whom are in the backroom itself. Too much disarray, not enough care for this...it was just an effort to get the damned community together, but it seems like too much work, and until someone really steps it up, it'll remain stagnant.

I'm still going to update things when I have time, but this obviously didn't work as well as anyone hoped it would, except maybe Star King or whoever, who can now gloat at another failed attempt to bolster the community. I hope their ego boosts are worth the failure to contribute well to the community.

I'm sincerely hoping that, once the new community matchup guide is up, we can have proper discussion again.
 

SheerMadness

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#10
It was a good idea, but it obviously crashed. There was a clear faction who ridiculed it, some of whom are in the backroom itself. Too much disarray, not enough care for this...it was just an effort to get the damned community together, but it seems like too much work, and until someone really steps it up, it'll remain stagnant.

I'm still going to update things when I have time, but this obviously didn't work as well as anyone hoped it would, except maybe Star King or whoever, who can now gloat at another failed attempt to bolster the community. I hope their ego boosts are worth the failure to contribute well to the community.

I'm sincerely hoping that, once the new community matchup guide is up, we can have proper discussion again.
I don't see why you need to bash people who were against the backroom. A lot of people felt it might hurt our already very small community if we were to segregate it even further. What does their ego have to do with it? It's their opinion. I remember the poll to decide whether we even got a backroom was fairly close.

They aren't the reason our backroom is extremely inactive. Hell, your example Star King, is possibly one of if not the most active posters in here.

You basically stated yourself, asianaussie, that you wanted to make sure that you had more power than the regular members of the backroom (in the thread about seeing apps). Surri basically agreed with you. That's an awful attitude to have IMO and it really didn't help the backroom grow. Knowing that the entirety of the backroom agreed on something yet the leaders wouldn't allow it because it may cut into their power. That's far more ego driven than people being against the backroom.

I propose that we do away with leaders and everyone in the backroom have an equal amount of power. Also that we make the backroom viewable to the public.

If the backroom isn't working as it is now there's no reason not to experiment with changes.
 
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#11
I'm honestly unopposed to that. It's not as if we're leaders in anything but name only.

It might not be their fault, but the fact that backroom members are going to ridicule the backroom openly certainly isn't helpful.
 

SilentSlayers

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
328
#12
I don't see why you need to bash people who were against the backroom. A lot of people felt it might hurt our already very small community if we were to segregate it even further. What does their ego have to do with it? It's their opinion. I remember the poll to decide whether we even got a backroom was fairly close.

They aren't the reason our backroom is extremely inactive. Hell, your example Star King, is possibly one of if not the most active posters in here.

You basically stated yourself, asianaussie, that you wanted to make sure that you had more power than the regular members of the backroom (in the thread about seeing apps). Surri basically agreed with you. That's an awful attitude to have IMO and it really didn't help the backroom grow. Knowing that the entirety of the backroom agreed on something yet the leaders wouldn't allow it because it may cut into their power. That's far more ego driven than people being against the backroom.

I propose that we do away with leaders and everyone in the backroom have an equal amount of power. Also that we make the backroom viewable to the public.

If the backroom isn't working as it is now there's no reason not to experiment with changes.
+11111

I happen to agree with everything you say. Weird.
 

SheerMadness

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#13
Maybe not make it viewable to the public, but at least admit a lot more people in. All the people that haven proven to be intelligent posters. Like:

JaimeHR
Peek
Sangoku
teh icy

There's a lot more but I don't feel like listing them all. We need as much discussion in here as possible. So anyone that has proven that they can intelligently discuss a topic without trolling or flaming should be let in IMO.
 
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#14
It was a good idea, but it obviously crashed. There was a clear faction who ridiculed it, some of whom are in the backroom itself. Too much disarray, not enough care for this...it was just an effort to get the damned community together, but it seems like too much work, and until someone really steps it up, it'll remain stagnant.

I'm still going to update things when I have time, but this obviously didn't work as well as anyone hoped it would, except maybe Star King or whoever, who can now gloat at another failed attempt to bolster the community. I hope their ego boosts are worth the failure to contribute well to the community.

I'm sincerely hoping that, once the new community matchup guide is up, we can have proper discussion again.
I'm honestly unopposed to that. It's not as if we're leaders in anything but name only.

It might not be their fault, but the fact that backroom members are going to ridicule the backroom openly certainly isn't helpful.
I hope you're not blaming people like me for this.

I may have been highly opposed to the Backroom, but when one was created, I accepted my "defeat", and tried to help prevent it from being a failure, or at least not sabotage it. I even tried to not trash talk the Backroom in the main forum too much; I may have done so a little after all, but there was much more from people like Battlecow.

Why would I gloat? I may have said this will happen in that poll thread, but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it. Kind of a shame you believe I hold higher value in a personal victory in a past argument than the success and growth of a community I hold dear.

Besides, it's not over yet. We can still make the Backroom if we get the members to care more and be more active. If we can get that to happen, we can then better help the community improve and grow. I'm not sure how we can make that happen, but I'm willing to bet it's possible. I can understand your frustration at the little progress the Backroom has made, but try not to be too pessimistic.

Maybe not make it viewable to the public, but at least admit a lot more people in. All the people that haven proven to be intelligent posters. Like:

JaimeHR
Peek
Sangoku
teh icy

There's a lot more but I don't feel like listing them all. We need as much discussion in here as possible. So anyone that has proven that they can intelligently discuss a topic without trolling or flaming should be let in IMO.
Can't really do much about it, though, if people like JaimeHR and Peek don't apply. The only real way we can go about that is improve the Backroom's image in the public's eye, so we'll have to address that first.

Basically, the root of all the Backroom's problems right now is apathy from the members.
 
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#15
People don't want to talk 64 stuff, that's all. Writing out things everyone decent at this game already knows is pretty boring. I lasted for a number of Pika's matchups and I'm burned out. We need to get organised, people need to get proactive, we may even need to assign things and set soft deadlines.

To improve the backroom image, all we can do is put out useful and well-thought-out stuff. People laugh at the brawl matchup chart because there is disagreement there. We just have to be right about things and give proper information.

If anyone feels I'm blaming them for the backroom implosion, don't. If anything, I've done more wrong than any of you. Surri has all but quit, and I'm a primary cause for that.
 
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#16
I was hoping to change the image and role of the backroom by setting up a system for BR-sponsored competitive events. Unfortunately, I think that the focus of these competitive events was completely lost. I originally proposed that the BR sponsor a series of rated tournaments. It ended up degenerating into the Elo vs. AiB debate, with the AiB system coming out on top. The problem here is that AiB is a ladder that offers nothing new because it doesn't separate tournament from non-tournament results and it isn't actually run by the BR. BR-sponsored tournaments become meaningless without something (ratings) to distinguish them from other tournaments.
 

firo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
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#17
...So what's going on here? Is the backroom considered active, or not?

There is disagreement among members about the rating system and we are currently set to use multiple systems, which in my opinion will lead to failure. The fact that the first major decision by the backroom has resulted in a stalemate when there is only about a dozen or so of us is not good and is halting progress. As much as an equal and democratic process is good for everyone, at some point someone needs to make a decision when there is a disagreement, or else things will not get done. I disagree with Sheermadness in that everyone should have equal power. There has to be some trust in a higher authority that they are competent and are looking out for our best interests even if there may be a disagreement. There's a reason why we can't vote on the smashboards forum rules, because if everyone had a say there would be chaos. If that trust isn't there, well, that is a separate issue. A lot of this comes down to policy in my opinion. Some critically important questions needed to have been made clear before the formation of the backroom, including "What is the backroom for?" "How are decisions made?" "How are disagreements settled?" "How is success measured?" and I feel that they still have not been answered adequately.

As willing volunteers and members of the backroom I feel that we deserve some transparency about what is going on, especially with the leader situation and their thoughts, because commitment is definitely waining. The fact that some members in the general forum don't believe in the idea of a backroom should not be enough of a reason to become inactive - the idea should be to produce something to convince the non-believers that the backroom is having a positive influence. If the leaders seriously think that the backroom is not beneficial then some method of measurement should be used to see if it should be kept active and then the decision should be made. In business this is called a Go/No Go decision.

For the original topic at hand, if it's a matter of advertising I can push whatever needs to be done on Galaxy heavily. If you put a link whenever someone makes a game to a ladder, they'll probably click on it eventually. I'm open for promoting things on the server (giving elevated status or something of the sort for winners of certain divisions on the ladder, for example) within reason as long as it does not detract from the experience.

I know some of my posts are long (like this one) but I really hope people read them. I put time into these and I truly believe what I'm saying here. I was originally not for the backroom but I now see its potential and I don't want it to fail.
 

SilentSlayers

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
328
#18
...So what's going on here? Is the backroom considered active, or not?

There is disagreement among members about the rating system and we are currently set to use multiple systems, which in my opinion will lead to failure. The fact that the first major decision by the backroom has resulted in a stalemate when there is only about a dozen or so of us is not good and is halting progress. As much as an equal and democratic process is good for everyone, at some point someone needs to make a decision when there is a disagreement, or else things will not get done. I disagree with Sheermadness in that everyone should have equal power. There has to be some trust in a higher authority that they are competent and are looking out for our best interests even if there may be a disagreement. There's a reason why we can't vote on the smashboards forum rules, because if everyone had a say there would be chaos. If that trust isn't there, well, that is a separate issue. A lot of this comes down to policy in my opinion. Some critically important questions needed to have been made clear before the formation of the backroom, including "What is the backroom for?" "How are decisions made?" "How are disagreements settled?" "How is success measured?" and I feel that they still have not been answered adequately.

As willing volunteers and members of the backroom I feel that we deserve some transparency about what is going on, especially with the leader situation and their thoughts, because commitment is definitely waining. The fact that some members in the general forum don't believe in the idea of a backroom should not be enough of a reason to become inactive - the idea should be to produce something to convince the non-believers that the backroom is having a positive influence. If the leaders seriously think that the backroom is not beneficial then some method of measurement should be used to see if it should be kept active and then the decision should be made. In business this is called a Go/No Go decision.

For the original topic at hand, if it's a matter of advertising I can push whatever needs to be done on Galaxy heavily. If you put a link whenever someone makes a game to a ladder, they'll probably click on it eventually. I'm open for promoting things on the server (giving elevated status or something of the sort for winners of certain divisions on the ladder, for example) within reason as long as it does not detract from the experience.

I know some of my posts are long (like this one) but I really hope people read them. I put time into these and I truly believe what I'm saying here. I was originally not for the backroom but I now see its potential and I don't want it to fail.
Actually, you've opened my eyes. Good points here. You won me over.
 
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