AI: (Get Well Soon Bero!)

[brawlshifter]

My guess is setting all the numbers to 0 removes the character specific Ai but not the AI responsible for non-character actions. Like dodging, shielding, item grabbing, ledge recovery, etc.

Maybe, but what difficulty level did you try my Dumb*** Ike on?

 

[ChuteTheMessenger]

I tested him on level 9, maybe that's why he seemed different

And about the common_ai, perhaps we should try putting 00's in that and see what happens

 

[JamesRaynor]

Maybe, but what difficulty level did you try my Dumb*** Ike on?

1, 3 and 9. All were similar except level 9 dodged and shielded much more often.



I've noticed that it would seem that the Common_AI affects non-character specific moves (Eg. Dodging, ledge recovery, shielding, item grabbing (At least unless it requires a character specific AI to work, like with the SupS), etc. At least that's what it would appear like to me.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Uh.

Before you move on, establish that AI cannot learn.

Otherwise, kewl work.

 

[Evilagram]

Uh.

Before you move on, establish that AI cannot learn.

Otherwise, kewl work.

 

[brawlshifter]

Uh.

Before you move on, establish that AI cannot learn.

Otherwise, kewl work.

When did I say they could?

 

[JamesRaynor]

Uh.

Before you move on, establish that AI cannot learn.

Otherwise, kewl work.

They cannot, they attack using an AI roulette.

 

[leafbarrett]

Uh.

Before you move on, establish that AI cannot learn.

Otherwise, kewl work.

These videos beg to differ.

 

[Baro]

AI powershielding every hit while on the ground. My god.

 

[Eldiran]

These videos beg to differ.

I'd say the first and third videos didn't really show anything. I couldn't see anything other than random behavior at work in the third, and in the first it's more likely the CPU Lucas was literally just following P1 around in an attempt to hit him.

The second video is a tad uncanny. It seems possible that during a match, the CPU might start ruling out certain attack patterns. However, there can be no denying that either the CPU does not learn outside of a single match, or that the parameters of their "education" must be passed on with each replay. Otherwise replays wouldn't function.

 

[brawlshifter]

These videos beg to differ.

Interesting videos. Although, some just refuse to learn, such as Pheonix Mario. When you are facing regular Mario, he will use his Side B very often to make it back to the ledge, which is a good strategy...for regular Mario. Pheonix Mario will do the same thing with his Side B, only, since it doesn't move him anywhere, he just keeps kicking thin air until he dies.

Obviously, Pheonix Mario doesn't learn.

 

[leafbarrett]

Interesting videos. Although, some just refuse to learn, such as Pheonix Mario. When you are facing regular Mario, he will use his Side B very often to make it back to the ledge, which is a good strategy...for regular Mario. Pheonix Mario will do the same thing with his Side B, only, since it doesn't move him anywhere, he just keeps kicking thin air until he dies.

Obviously, Pheonix Mario doesn't learn.

They learn, but can't handle certain moves. Recovery moves are always recovery moves in their AI, just as charging moves are always charging moves. They WILL copy you though. Trust me, my Lucario was a dead ringer for me before I started hacking. And they do learn custom stages and what the different blocks are. This one I personally tested.

 

[GHNeko]

A CPU Snake in Brawl+ hit me with a Flub Fair > Nair combo, which is B+ exclusive, as only Snake+ can cancel Fair after the initial hitbox with a Double Jump.

I also got punished by a CPU that actually successfully baited an attack from me, making me whiff....because it was dash dancing in my face.

:|

 

[UltraPuff]

I was caped by a CPU Mario that used the ACE technique. o_o

 

[Deleted member]

shifter, how do you edit the ai? all I could find was ai_common in fighter .pac, nothing in the char specific things

 

[brawlshifter]

A CPU Snake in Brawl+ hit me with a Flub Fair > Nair combo, which is B+ exclusive, as only Snake+ can cancel Fair after the initial hitbox with a Double Jump.

I also got punished by a CPU that actually successfully baited an attack from me, making me whiff....because it was dash dancing in my face.

:|

Oh yeah, that reminds me, all of my tests are in vBrawl.

shifter, how do you edit the ai? all I could find was ai_common in fighter .pac, nothing in the char specific things

It is in the Etc part of a MotionEtc file:

 

[GHNeko]

Still though. "AIs dont learn." is hard to believe when they are using mechanics/changes that are exclusive to a specific game. <_>

ie my examples.

 

[Deleted member]

ah, found it. looks kind of the same as ai_common.

anyone thought about just importing ike's ai into the .pac of link. or something of that order.
(on that note, who has the "snartest" ai? and would anyone dare putting that in weegee's pac)

 

[Eldiran]

ah, found it. looks kind of the same as ai_common.

anyone thought about just importing ike's ai into the .pac of link. or something of that order.
(on that note, who has the "snartest" ai? and would anyone dare putting that in weegee's pac)

I've tried that and many others, actually. Putting different AIs into link, that is. It primarily affects the way they try to use their special moves, the range they expect to get on attacks, and the timing for using said attacks. For example, Zero uses Diddy's AI. As such, he uses Dtilt a lot, because Diddy likes to use Dtilt because it is a fast move.

I have Zero using Diddy's AI because Diddy uses both his Side+B and Up+B to recover. Diddy's Up+B, however, involves holding the B button, which sometimes causes CPU Zero to Up+B and then Neutral B when he could have been grabbing the ledge.

Worth noting is that tethers are likely a common AI feature, because Diddy-Zero and others will still use the tether properly.

 

[Deleted member]

ok, that actually helps a bit in trying to find what is in the char specific ai files.

 

[brawlshifter]

ah, found it. looks kind of the same as ai_common.

anyone thought about just importing ike's ai into the .pac of link. or something of that order.
(on that note, who has the "snartest" ai? and would anyone dare putting that in weegee's pac)

Eldiran put Diddy's AI in Zero's pac. I don't know who has the smartest AI, though. Hopefully I'll find out in doing these tests.

EDIT: Ninja'd, by 8 minutes...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

AI is pretty much confirmed to know how to work with its hitboxes; in early alphas of Zelda-, we were having the AI **** us because it knew exactly where the stupidly overpowered ghost hitboxes were and how to abuse them; fair->dtilt from across the stage gets tiresome.

Smartest AI=luigi. By far. Then Diddy and Pika...

 

[Deleted member]

ok. found it. after messing around with the amount of columns in my hex editor. I found waht basically is a data table. and with the tags it opens with ("atk_range_base" "atk_range_rnd" etc) I'm pretty sure this lists all ranges on a characters' move (bad grammar)

I know it looks horibly confusing but let me explain.
first of all, brawl stores all data in 32-bit blocks. this means each information block consists of 4 bytes (in the image one byte is 2digits, put in one cell)

at 2460 (leftmost column) the table starts.

divinding in 32-bit blocks we get:

40A00000 ; 41500000 ; 00490000 ; 00020004 ; 41200000 ; 41E00000

number 1,3,5 and 6 directly stand out af 32-bit floating point numbers. I'm not gonna convert these to decimal, but my estimate is that they vary from about 4-80.
ok when I said everything is in 32-bit block that wasn't truly correct, as blocks 3 and 4 are storing 16-bits stuff, namely the numbers 49, 00, 02 and 04.


long story short:
open up your hex editor
open an ai file (export the whole AI from brawlbox)
go to the end of the file
set column width to "24"
go mess around with the numbers

to convert back and forth between floating point and decimal, just use this:
http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/

 

[Deleted member]

ok, column 3 (00490000 in example) is I think the subactionID. the range fits and they are in order.

EDIT: not really sure, but column 4 (00020004 in example) might be startup and cooldown. their relative vlaues seem to match the timers in PSA

also 1500th post yay!

 

[Deleted member]

ok, messed around just a little bit but I can't test stuff.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9e6be94b80dbf0c5e5c3dee5769931ec9748314627f0f695a2d0568e5b24962e

can someone try out the Ike file in that folder? all I did was tweak some values of his dash attack


EDIT: changed the uploaded file to something more drastical

 

[brawlshifter]

ok, messed around just a little bit but I can't test stuff.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9e6be94b80dbf0c5e5c3dee5769931ec9748314627f0f695a2d0568e5b24962e

can someone try out the Ike file in that folder? all I did was tweak some values of his dash attack

I'll test it now. *Prevents quadruple post*

 

[Deleted member]

ok, TSON reports that the second attempt (which is the file you'll currently find in the link) makes the CPU insanely good.
I also added lucas with the same threatment.

 

[IrohDW]

ok, TSON reports that the second attempt (which is the file you'll currently find in the link) makes the CPU insanely good.
I also added lucas with the same threatment.

Good as in mindgames, or good as in extreme reaction timing?

 

[[TSON]]

good as in they'll 0death you and then stand there for like an hour without doing anything but powershielding your attacks

 

[Eldiran]

ok, TSON reports that the second attempt (which is the file you'll currently find in the link) makes the CPU insanely good.
I also added lucas with the same threatment.

Interesting, the Ike motion file does seem to improve his AI. Though maybe I'm just thinking that because his normal AI was pretty terribad.

It seems to crash whenever he does an Upsmash though.

 

[Deleted member]

Hm, TSON mentioned the Usmash, but thought it had to do with B-.

 

[Eldiran]

Pretty sure it's the MotionEtc. I tried it with Ike with no costume or moveset files involved.

The only thing altering Ike for me was BBrawl, which doesn't affect his Usmash at all.

EDIT: Good work on this stuff though! I'm glad to see someone doing research on it. Who knows, perhaps we could eventually stop the CPUs from airdodging constantly after every hit.

 

[JoeGrandma]

I can confirm that Ike doing an upsmash freezes the game. I think...

His dsmash also froze the game once, but he did it a few other times safely.

I have vBrawl, so it's not B- or BB, I guess.

I don't see any of this 0 to death stuff, but I did notice that he was slightly better.

Was I supposed to get any of the other files besides FitIkeMotionEtc.pac?

 

[Deleted member]

no. TSON was "smart" enough to use B- in conjunction with this.
and broken chracter + AI on steroids = bad

 

[brawlshifter]

@ThePaprikaKiller: Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I had to do something. I tested the first file, and half of the time Ike attacked it was normal, but the other half of the time he completely calculated range wrong. Sometimes he would try to attack me from the complete other side of the stage. This was all of his moves, however, not just his dash. (Which he never even used.)

Please tell me all of the exact steps you took in each test and I'll add them to the test post. By the way, thanks for the help.

 

[Dchen]

@brawlshifter

What you said seems to be different than what everyone else is saying about this FitIkeMotionEtc.pac....I think the reason is because of the CPU Level's. Depending on what level you set the CPU to, and what level the other people testing it set it to, there should be a large difference. I would suggest every test these files on Level 9 Computers (I assume that's what most people do) to avoid any confusion.

 

[brawlshifter]

@brawlshifter

What you said seems to be different than what everyone else is saying about this FitIkeMotionEtc.pac....I think the reason is because of the CPU Level's. Depending on what level you set the CPU to, and what level the other people testing it set it to, there should be a large difference. I would suggest every test these files on Level 9 Computers (I assume that's what most people do) to avoid any confusion.

I tested a different file than everyone else.

 

[theunabletable]

Can this be done to change the Nana AI, by chance?

 

[brawlshifter]

Can this be done to change the Nana AI, by chance?

I was thinking about that myself. I'll check tomorrow.

 

[Alses]

I was testing some things with the AIs in a 99 stock mode when I noticed the CPUs want revenge... I used Pikachu's down smash which hit everyone and killed them and when the CPUs came back they weren't attacking each other and only chasing me... At least until I dodged out of a attack the made them hit each other.... They reminded me of zombies o.o