After Ultimate, will the next Smash be a complete reboot?

[meleebrawler]

Smash won't be Smash anymore if they become staples. I know this may sound contradictive, but hear me out. You hearing the saying "I don't want to play Melee 2.0 again, etc" No one wants to play Ultimate 2.0 for the next 20 years. Every Smash game needs to be unique and different from each instalment. We all will detest Ultimate if he happen, I don't doubt it in the slightest.

But it's OK to play Melee for 20 years? People who don't like that entry generally have more bad things to say about the attitudes of the players and spectators than the game itself.

Or you could just talk to some Paper Mario fans to see how they like how each game after the second was so "different" from the last. It doesn't matter how different or not a sequel is, if people don't like it for any reason, no matter how petty, they'll have no trouble sticking with an older one.

 

[UserKev]

But it's OK to play Melee for 20 years? People who don't like that entry generally have more bad things to say about the attitudes of the players and spectators than the game itself.

Or you could just talk to some Paper Mario fans to see how they like how each game after the second was so "different" from the last. It doesn't matter how different or not a sequel is, if people don't like it for any reason, no matter how petty, they'll have no trouble sticking with an older one.

Uhh. Melee's gameplay is the magic that holds it after near two decades. Ultimate's gameplay is quite.. broken, hard to notice and tiring. Its a step down from Smash Wii U/3DS, which are more fun games in my opinion.

 

[Arthur97]

That logic is slightly flowed it seems. Mario is a Smash staple. Kirby is a Smash staple. Captain Falcon is a Smash stable. Link, Samus, DK, etc. There has never been a Smash game without them, and I personally don't think there should ever be one. Others like Marth are staples depending on their impact on the series. Smash can and does have staples. If your case is about first vs. third party maybe, but of the third parties, Sonic may be closest to a staple as while Snake was the first, Sonic was the one people really wanted, and he's the only third party perfect attendance member (as in, hasn't missed a game since Brawl).

 

[meleebrawler]

Uhh. Melee's gameplay is the magic that holds it after near two decades. Ultimate's gameplay is quite.. broken, hard to notice and tiring. Its a step down from Smash Wii U/3DS, which are more fun games in my opinion.

I just find it weird you keep talking about how much the stuff in Melee and whatnot is so much better than what we have in Ultimate, yet in your previous post also insist each game needs to be as different and distinct from each other as possible. Simultaneously chastising games after Melee for dropping what you saw as winning formulas, while also apparently wanting each game to have a completely different roster just because.

And right here, aren't you basically saying you would like Ultimate better if they hadn't changed the physics from Smash 4 at all, or in other words, did even less to try and change up the gameplay like you say they should?

 

[King Leo]

At this point I believe there is no reason for a reboot. The coolest thing that was ever done was to allow all users to purchase newer and newer characters over time. To me this awesome ability is a reboot per new character added to the store.

 

[UserKev]

Smash won't be Smash anymore if they become staples. I know this may sound contradictive, but hear me out. You hearing the saying "I don't want to play Melee 2.0 again, etc" No one wants to play Ultimate 2.0 for the next 20 years. Every Smash game needs to be unique and different from each instalment. We all will detest Ultimate if he happen, I don't doubt it in the slightest.

Sign Never in any of my resent posts where I expressed any Melee praising. I even admitted to contradictory. Sometimes I just feel like I'm usually King Bradley on Smashboards because half of the users are so damn unbearable. I really tried and always end up the dumb **.

Sometimes I wish this site would just obliterate its self.

 

[meleebrawler]

Sign Never in any of my resent posts where I expressed any Melee praising.

Uhh. Melee's gameplay is the magic that holds it after near two decades.

Not saying it's bad to like older games more, you just don't need to make contradictory arguments to get your point of not liking newer ones across. Or, you know, if you don't want anyone to challenge your points ever, then keeping opinions to yourself is the only surefire way to do that.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I would be ok with the next Smash trimming the roster down if it meant more newcomers. It was awesome that “Everyone is here” was a thing but do future rosters need 3 Links, 2 Marios, 2 Pits, 2 Pikachus, 4 Marths, 2 Kens, and 2 Simons? Especially if it means trading in the spares for 10 brand new newcomers?

 

[Arthur97]

Except cutting most of the ones you mentioned won't bring equivalent newcomers. Echoes are unlikely to save much time. Admittedly, Ken, Doc, the LInks, Pichu and to some degree Lucina and Chrom might take some more work, but at the end of the day, it won't give you as many. Cutting clones is actually one of the most pointless cuts you can make ironically. Now, on the other hand, cutting the Mincraft crew might give you more than one new fighter depending on complexity.

Also, at what point are the newcomers not worth who you got rid of? Especially when some could be reworked. Do you want random third party #35 or a proper Ganondorf?

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Except cutting most of the ones you mentioned won't bring equivalent newcomers. Echoes are unlikely to save much time. Admittedly, Ken, Doc, the LInks, Pichu and to some degree Lucina and Chrom might take some more work, but at the end of the day, it won't give you as many. Cutting clones is actually one of the most pointless cuts you can make ironically. Now, on the other hand, cutting the Mincraft crew might give you more than one new fighter depending on complexity.

Also, at what point are the newcomers not worth who you got rid of? Especially when some could be reworked. Do you want random third party #35 or a proper Ganondorf?

Ok, why wouldn’t cutting characters bring in equivalent newcomers? We are talking about a theoretical Smash reboot with infinite theoretical development time. So just because echoes/clones save time in real life doesn’t really effect our thought-experiment here.

I would gladly trade in Dr. Mario for Mach Rider, both young link and toon link for Takamaru, Pichu for Mike Jones, etc etc etc. I also wouldn’t lose any sleep from completely removing all 3rd party reps. My assessment of a reboot would be limiting roster size while expanding the number of first party series represented. Your concerns, while valid if this was an actual development plan, aren’t really warranted in this hypothetical exercise.

 

[Arthur97]

Ok, why wouldn’t cutting characters bring in equivalent newcomers? We are talking about a theoretical Smash reboot with infinite theoretical development time. So just because echoes/clones save time in real life doesn’t really effect our thought-experiment here.

I would gladly trade in Dr. Mario for Mach Rider, both young link and toon link for Takamaru, Pichu for Mike Jones, etc etc etc. I also wouldn’t lose any sleep from completely removing all 3rd party reps. My assessment of a reboot would be limiting roster size while expanding the number of first party series represented. Your concerns, while valid if this was an actual development plan, aren’t really warranted in this hypothetical exercise.

Because, Daisy takes significantly less development time than say Zelda. Clones take up less resources overall because they are so low effort. I think Sakurai said something along the lines for Melee that they could have had maybe Dedede or Wario, or all the clones. They are not equivalent in effort. Now, I'm for decloning to give the characters themselves proper effort, but as it is, clones "stealing" spots is a tired argument, and it's pretty much the same here. Cutting 10 clones does not mean you get 10 unique new fighters in their place. You might get 2 or 3. Granted this can vary depending on the clone. Chrom may take more effort than Daisy and Ken more than Chrom, so it isn't the same across clones and semi-clones, but then you run into the argument that the more dev time they take up, the more unique they probably are.

Even outside of clones, veterans in general likely take up fewer resources than newcomers as they already have established movesets, and potentially reusable assets.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Because, Daisy takes significantly less development time than say Zelda. Clones take up less resources overall because they are so low effort. I think Sakurai said something along the lines for Melee that they could have had maybe Dedede or Wario, or all the clones. They are not equivalent in effort. Now, I'm for decloning to give the characters themselves proper effort, but as it is, clones "stealing" spots is a tired argument, and it's pretty much the same here. Cutting 10 clones does not mean you get 10 unique new fighters in their place. You might get 2 or 3. Granted this can vary depending on the clone. Chrom may take more effort than Daisy and Ken more than Chrom, so it isn't the same across clones and semi-clones, but then you run into the argument that the more dev time they take up, the more unique they probably are.

Even outside of clones, veterans in general likely take up fewer resources than newcomers as they already have established movesets, and potentially reusable assets.

Again, we are talking about an imaginary reboot of the super smash bros franchise. Development time is not a factor here.

 

[Arthur97]

Again, we are talking about an imaginary reboot of the super smash bros franchise. Development time is not a factor here.

Then why cut them at all if you have unlimited dev time?

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Then why cut them at all if you have unlimited dev time?

Because we are talking about how to reboot the series. As in 'start over' or 'start fresh' - an easy way to do that would be to cut down the massive roster to better focus on the individuality of the characters. My viewpoint would be to get rid of the 90+ roster filled with similar fighters in favor of a smaller but more unique and diverse roster.

 

[Arthur97]

But if you are literally unbound by resource constraints, you could keep the roster size, but actually make the clones unique as well. I have several ideas for Chrom and Lucina. Dark Samus could use a rework. Daisy could probably be redone. Why cut when you can make them shine? Balance isn't a issue too if you have unlimited resources. Come on, the best balanced one is the one with the biggest roster anyway.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

But if you are literally unbound by resource constraints, you could keep the roster size, but actually make the clones unique as well. I have several ideas for Chrom and Lucina. Dark Samus could use a rework. Daisy could probably be redone. Why cut when you can make them shine? Balance isn't a issue too if you have unlimited resources. Come on, the best balanced one is the one with the biggest roster anyway.

I’m getting the feeling you aren’t really reading what I’m writing. The thread topic is “will the next smash be a reboot?” So I offered what I would think a reboot would be. You clearly don’t like it and that’s fine but I don’t get why you’re so fixated on my opinion here.

 

[Arthur97]

Given your ruleset, your own idea doesn't make sense. Either bound by resources or not, cutting clones doesn't really make sense and doesn't provide for an equivalent exchange of newcomers unless you're just replacing them cause you don't want them. Plus, it seems to ignore the overall importance some have to Nintendo such as Daisy, Dark Samus, and yes, Chrom and Lucina. While they may not be the biggest deals overall, Daisy represents a not insignificant part of Mario, Dark Samus a whole sub series of Metroid (not counting the Meta Ridley alts), and Chrom and Lucina from the game that ushered FE into the big leagues.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Given your ruleset, your own idea doesn't make sense. Either bound by resources or not, cutting clones doesn't really make sense and doesn't provide for an equivalent exchange of newcomers unless you're just replacing them cause you don't want them. Plus, it seems to ignore the overall importance some have to Nintendo such as Daisy, Dark Samus, and yes, Chrom and Lucina. While they may not be the biggest deals overall, Daisy represents a not insignificant part of Mario, Dark Samus a whole sub series of Metroid (not counting the Meta Ridley alts), and Chrom and Lucina from the game that ushered FE into the big leagues.

I guess you just don't understand what I'm trying to say. IF smash was to REBOOT I think the best way to do that would be to start fresh.

 

[AlRex]

I think the next Smash/Smash-type game could do with a refinement of mechanics, an actually good campaign mode that takes Melee's Adventure Mode and Brawl's Subspace Emissary and puts them together into something great, and a fine tuning of various characters. I think the way to make a smaller, but more refined roster sting less is to make it Nintendo VS someone else, as was suggested before. CAPCOM, SEGA, or Shonen Jump are probably the best options. Disney could be fun if that wasn't a cluster@#$% on the corporate side. Warner Brothers seems more willing to do wacky stuff with all their characters interacting, but they're kind of in dire straits currently. Super Smash Warner Brothers? I dunno.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’ve accepted the next Smash will without a doubt be a drastically downsized reboot.

And it breaks my heart cuz it’s the one thing I absolutely DO NOT WANT of Smash. Welp, guess I’m quitting Smash after Ultimate… might even quit gaming as a whole…

 

[meleebrawler]

I’ve accepted the next Smash will without a doubt be a drastically downsized reboot.

And it breaks my heart cuz it’s the one thing I absolutely DO NOT WANT of Smash. Welp, guess I’m quitting Smash after Ultimate… might even quit gaming as a whole…

Look, we've gotten characters cut all the time since Melee, it would be silly to act like the world is coming to an end just because they started doing it again.

I can offer a counterpoint in Monster Hunter. Generations Ultimate, like Smash Ultimate, has a roster larger than you will find in any other non-Frontier game. But despite games after being downsized in monster roster, other changes have made, World, Iceborne and Rise far more successful than any old fan could have imagined. Maybe this sounds like an apples and oranges comparison, and I still believe the large roster is more important to Smash than it is to Monster Hunter, but we can't deal in absolutes. It's not like Ultimate will cease to exist the moment a new entry comes out.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Look, we've gotten characters cut all the time since Melee, it would be silly to act like the world is coming to an end just because they started doing it again.

I can offer a counterpoint in Monster Hunter. Generations Ultimate, like Smash Ultimate, has a roster larger than you will find in any other non-Frontier game. But despite games after being downsized in monster roster, other changes have made, World, Iceborne and Rise far more successful than any old fan could have imagined. Maybe this sounds like an apples and oranges comparison, and I still believe the large roster is more important to Smash than it is to Monster Hunter, but we can't deal in absolutes. It's not like Ultimate will cease to exist the moment a new entry comes out.

I know

but to me, the magic is in the characters present. I don’t wanna have to deal with losing Snake again, and any of my faves being cut… well…

i guess i wouldn’t take it too hard if DP or PP were cut, but anyone else would sadden me a lot

and I want my most wanteds to be able to face EVERYONE, or as close to everyone as it can get (minimum 85% of everyone I’d say)

 

[IzukuXYang4Life]

Don't make it a reboot!!!!

That would be extremely stupid!!!

Here's what you really do!!

Give us a port of Smash Ultimate similar to Ultra Street Fighter 4 And Street Fighter 5: Champion Edition.

In which we get more characters who should have been in Smash Ultimate that didn't make the cut (With all the DLC thrown in)- Crash Bandicoot, Geno, Rayman, Dixie Kong, Krystal From Star Fox, Bandanna Waddle Dee, ect.........

In which we get all the old single player modes that should have been in Ultimate (Smash Run, Break The Targets/Target Blast, A Boss Rush Mode Similar To The One in Brawl).

A Story Mode That's Either Like Injustice Or Subspace Emissary (Nothing like World Of Light At All).

Awesome online.

Costumes for all the characters in Ultimate.

Trophies making a comeback.

Snake actually getting new codec calls or someone else getting a new Codec call thing (Maybe on the Spiral Mountain stage, Have Gruntilda makes rhymes about all the fighters).

Some new single player modes (Maybe a Mario Kart Mode, A Bowling Game Mode similar to the one from Tekken 7, or a chess game mode similar to Mortal Kombat: Deception, ect.........).

Maybe call it Super Smash Bros Infinite.

That's what I really want to see. Not a reboot or Nintendo killing off Smash in favor of more badly made Mario/Zelda remakes or boring Pokemon Spin Off games.

Feel free to either agree or disagree with me.

 

[AlRex]

It would be boring to just do Ultimate ports for the next 10/20+ years. I want to see reworks of the older characters, probably, but I also understand that nobody wants a large amount of cuts. So what I'd want next is a Nintendo VS someone else crossover, if that's workable. You can not have everyone and it'd be understandable because, hey, it's Nintendo VS CAPCOM, or Nintendo VS SEGA, or Shonen Jump, Disney, Project Super Smash Brothers X Zone, whatever. That's the only way you can do it without people getting super bothered about it, probably. I find the "Super Smash Brothers Madden" approach a bit boring to think about, but it's also semi-likely.

 

[Oracle Link]

this whole reboot idea is dumb i mean its not smash ultimate its Smash Special! its a special occasion to have all chars in the game but its not "Ultimate"!

So lets say a reboot happens and they for example only have Adult link from BOTW what do you think would happen if you preferd a young/ classic link right you stick with special BUT you can cut out character like Pichu, fire emblems and logically a bunch of Third parties with little to no problems!