Aerial Interrupt Fairs on Battlefield (Tech)

[Mittenz]

So I was messing around and figured this out. Not sure if it can be incorporated into play well or not.

What it is: If on battlefield you fair on the earliest possible frame during a full jump, you will land on the next platform up while rising through it. This works both from stage to middle platforms and middle platforms to top platform.

Aerial interrupt fair at 1/8th speed​

Why it works: Since pikachu spins along the horizontal axis during fair, there are a couple frames where his position actually shifts downwards slightly. If you are barely above a platform during one of these frames, the game will make pikachu land even if he is actually rising in his jump.
This video explains it amazingly.

Why it might be worthwhile: When L-canceled, the whole act of jumping, fairing, and landing takes 26 frames. This is one frame faster than a frame perfect full jump->waveland on Battlefield. This means it's not only the fastest way to get onto battlefield's platforms, but you get the added benefit of being covered in an active hitbox*.
*Keep in mind that hitting an opponent('s shield) with it will add hit stun making it a couple frames longer.

Shortcoming: If you miss the L-cancel, the whole process takes about 36 frames instead.
You have to get the fair out frame perfect for it to land while rising.
It only works consistently on Battlefield due to the platform height.

What are your guys' thoughts? I wonder if you could combo it into anything (someone please try this).

 

[Comet7]

You can probably try to grab people out of it, which is gimmicky, but this is already a gimmick anyway.

 

[Mittenz]

You can probably try to grab people out of it, which is gimmicky, but this is already a gimmick anyway.

Why do you think it is a gimmick?

 

[Comet7]

nair does the same thing, except better.

 

[Mittenz]

Are you sure? I tested all the timings for jumping an nairing and I can't get nair to land while pika is still rising in his jump.So the best I could do with that was full jump, fast fall, L-cancel onto the platform which takes about 40 frames. Do you know what frame in your jump you have to input the nair to get the aerial interrupt?

 

[Comet7]

i'm assuming it's the same as what it is for pikachu

http://smashboards.com/threads/undiscovered-aerial-interrupts.382946/
http://gfycat.com/FearlessGrandioseEidolonhelvum

it seems dair can be interrupted by starting it on the first frame possible too.

 

[Mittenz]

Ah, I see. Didn't realize you were talking from pichu experience. Apparently this is one instance where Pichu and Pikachu are actually different. I can see from the gyfcat that Pichu's ECB definitely changes more during his nair that Pikachu's.

I'm not a huge fan of how a lot of aerial interrupts have their 1 frame window in the middle of the jump. At least with this f-air one it's the first frame (so it's the same timing as wavedashing). Also nice because if f-air is input too fast, it doesn't come out and you can use what would have been an L-cancel to waveland to the platform instead.

 

[soju]

Sorry but I can't see a great use to it, it's too situational, there are options that outweigh this and lead to bigger rewards.

I don't know if it's worth looking into but a few times while trying this out I fair'd a few frames late and no hitbox came out, but pikachu still landed on the platfrom and it autocanceled. Just giving that thought out, but still don't have much hope for this

 

[Mittenz]

Sorry but I can't see a great use to it, it's too situational, there are options that outweigh this and lead to bigger rewards.

Soju, can you elaborate a little bit? What do you mean by it being too situational? It seems less situational than a lot of other pika advanced tech (ex: the edge-canceled quick attack on the top platform, the super wavedash, etc). Also it seems like there are plenty of times during a match on Battlefield where you might need to move up one platform height where you could possibly apply this tech.

If you're goal is just to get to the next platform up as fast as possible there doesn't seem to be an option with a bigger reward. How were you trying to apply this tech? Also what are these options with bigger rewards you speak?

 

[soju]

First off it's battlefield only which isn't much a problem, then it only works on the lower platforms, and when you do it you commit to the location you chose(haven't tried this from a full run speed so I don't know how that would work). When you're doing it you basically are trying to cover a missed tech or apply quick shield pressure and go for the grab, the missed tech would?(haven't tried but it should in theory) work but shield pressure can be covered by other things; like uair where you can still fall back through the ledge and it leads to big things if hit, or just a simple waveland as you have time to react and choose where you want to go. The timing on it is a bit stricter too, but missing it as you said doesn't lead to anything devastating.

What I think I'm trying to put out is that Pikachu's platform game from underneath the opponent is already so good that you don't really require things like this, but I could always be wrong as a few frames can be all the difference in any game.

*Will edit to elaborate this post later, in a rush

 

[Mittenz]

It works on the top platform too. I think it's actually easier to do while running because you can just hold the direction of travel and input jump and then A (same timing as a wavedash).

Pika really excels when his opponents are above him, and is definitely more of a threat to a shielding opponent when he stays below them than if he gets on the platform with them. Normally uair or nair could cover whatever it is you would be trying to do with this tech, but it might still be worthwhile to know this to be used as a mix up or to help unstale your other aerials.

The option I see this being most comparable to is the waveland since they both have comparable frame data. You'd basically be trading sliding during landing lag with having a weak hit box out while passing through the platform.

Here area few other things I've noticed:
1) Getting this option to combo is largely dependent on the opponent not crouch canceling or DIing down. An option dependent on the opponent messing up is not normally the best option.
2)Cause pika never enters the air above the platform and is laying down during the start of landing lag, he can avoid being grabbed out of shield by taller characters (Marth, falcon, etc) for several frames after the move connects on shield. Do you think you might be able to use it effectively if you think your opponent is going to try shield grabbing?

 

[soju]

If 2 is true then it would be a good approach on shielded opponents of that sort, but the thing I'm worried about is how many more frames it'll add on say someone light shielding.

Also a quick tidbit about staling is that Pikachu's jab is dumb and will unstale his moves very fast. For a move to become fully unstale you need to have hit someone with 10 other attacks I believe, that with the fact that "only marth" has a real punish on a quick jab spam and you can unstale your moves quite quick if the need arises.

 

[Mittenz]

Hit lag is damage/3+3 rounded down. The first hit of fair does 2 to 3 damage so the connecting frame will last 3 instead of 1. So it adds 2 frames on connecting to pika.

I can't get the shield grab thing to work anymore. I think I must have just spaced it on their shield before to where I was just out of grab range. rats :/

 

[DerfMidWest]

You can also edge cancel this btw, which is way faster than wavelanding off a platform and covers you in a hitbox.

But the benefit of this isn't so much the attack, but the fact that it saves you a frame.

Good find.

 

[Plunder]

Hit lag is damage/3+3 rounded down. The first hit of fair does 2 to 3 damage so the connecting frame will last 3 instead of 1. So it adds 2 frames on connecting to pika.

I can't get the shield grab thing to work anymore. I think I must have just spaced it on their shield before to where I was just out of grab range. rats :/

But aren't you forgetting that Fair's electrical properties give the opponent extra hit lag? Or was this already brought up?

 

[Mittenz]

Not on shield like we were talking about. Otherwise it's only times 1.5 for electric attacks which would put it 4 frames (for the opponent) instead to 3. So not a huge difference and you still only suffer 3 frames of hit lag either way.

 

[Kuralesache]

Jesus...

Guys, this isn't an aerial interrupt. At least, this isn't what anyone means when they say aerial interrupt. What soju described is actually an aerial interrupt, where no hitbox comes out.

You CAN do an aerial interrupt on Battlefield with fair, but that's not what it looks like. It's much much faster and much much harder to do than L-canceling, because it's an autocancel with a 1 frame window to pull off. I can do it pretty consistently but there aren't that many applications for it. It's good for upthrow -> techchasing and you can do upthrow -> upsmash on some characters with it from below the platform.

The method that you guys are talking about is worse in every imaginable way than doublejump -> wavelanding onto the platform.

PS The fair has to be input on jump frame 4 and start on frame 5 for this, and it's possible on Dreamland as well if you start a fair after frame 6. The platforms are too close to the ground to be possible on PS, FoD, or YS.

 

[Mittenz]

Guys, this isn't an aerial interrupt. At least, this isn't what anyone means when they say aerial interrupt. What soju described is actually an aerial interrupt, where no hitbox comes out.

Sorry, if I was saying aerial interrupt (AI). Meant to be saying air interrupt attack (AIA). Please refer to this video if you're confused.

The method that you guys are talking about is worse in every imaginable way than doublejump -> wavelanding onto the platform.

That's sorta the conclusion we came to in this thread. However it's not worse in frame count, and as DerfMidWest said :

You can also edge cancel this btw...

That makes it 9 frames faster or (10 frames faster than doublejump->waveland), but also makes it more situational than it already is.

PS The fair has to be input on jump frame 4 and start on frame 5 for this, and it's possible on Dreamland as well if you start a fair after frame 6. The platforms are too close to the ground to be possible on PS, FoD, or YS.

Thanks for looking this stuff up! Not a huge fan of the frame 4/6 input. Sort of a weird timing that you'd only use for that AI. At least with the AIA, it's the same timing as perfect wavedash so something we should all be familiar with.

 

[soju]

i'm not savvy with terminology, so yall can take all your fancy hippity hoppity ramen noodle tomahawks and shove em cuz I'll always call it fun-canceling.

Anyways you shouldn't ever dismiss something, it has it's uses and who knows it could be something you need, but I doubt it and i wont ever use it, due to having the tech skill capacity and finger precision of a snake. But who knows! **** happens!

 

[DerfMidWest]

Off of the top of my head, the best use for aia fair would be for fair resets on the platforms.
I'm usually not a huge fan of using fair that way though since it offers multiple chances to SDI the reset.

But doing something like edgecancel aia fair->uair is pretty legit, albeit super situational.

 

[Kuralesache]

@ Mittenz You're comparing to fullhop->waveland, but I was talking about doublejump waveland, which only takes 24 frames, not 26. So the AIA is slower than the dj -> wl, which is slower than the fh -> wl. The fastest ways are the edge-cancel and the AI, and the AI is obviously less situational. You're right that the timing is awkward, but I can do the AI about 80% of the time now after practicing it a few hours total since I discovered it a couple of months ago. It's really not that hard to learn

Here's a comparison of doublejump and fullhop waveland, respectively:

Not pro enough to sync them into one file, but both the gifs show 33 frames and you can see that there are more wait frames on the left.

 

[Mittenz]

I see. I was having trouble getting the double jumped timing to get the fewer frames. Since if you dj too early you don't gain anything out of it.

 

[Kuralesache]

Yeah, you gotta do it as you slow down near the top. I haven't tested it too extensively, but I think jump input on frame 5 saves you 1 frame, 6 saves you 2... and then you probably save a frame or two if you jump on frame 7 or 8 of the jump and then it evens out. Might be worth testing actually, to figure out the ideal doublejump height. I might do that at some point but I'm feeling lazy :D

 

[Mittenz]

It would be interesting to check out, but also raises the question of whether it's worth losing your double jump if you get hit in order to save 1-2 frames.

 

[Comet7]

if You waveland off the platform it wouldn't always take 10 frames since You're already moving before You're actionable