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Advance Marth Stuff (Updated)

∫unk

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Allright, these are a few things that I have incorporated into my Marth game that you may find useful. None of this is really technically hard, but they're less obvious than SHFF f-air.

1) Aerial Rush - Not sure what to call this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this so let me explain. If you're running to the right, you can jump left and be facing left so you can use your f-air going left. The movement is exactly like a Reverse Aerial Rush, just pivot and then jump, but it's used to go back the way you came while facing forward. This is good for people with good f-airs.

To execute: Run right, hit left on your analog stick, and right as Marth turns around jump/short hop and DI left. If you don't jump right as Marth turns around he will enter a sliding animation (the one that stops his dash). Aerial Rushing a sh aerial is a really good fake out tactic. It attacks the spot you just dashed out of fairly quickly.

2) Reverse Dolphin Slash - If you're stuck under the lip of FD or anything similar, usually your best option is to DI towards the stage then Dolphin Slash away from the stage. Because you can grab the edge even if you aren't facing the right way in brawl, this turns out to be a very surprising and easy way to avoid suicides. The spacing for it takes a few minutes of practice.

3) Dashing Shield Grab - This is old... but most Marths are still trying to dash grab. Didn't you JCG in melee? learn to grab with R + A.

4) Turn around attacks - You can be using tilts in one direction and immediately attack the other way... works will with d-tilt's IASA frames as a fake out or reaction to the roll behind you.

5) True Pivot attacks - phanna has a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c) on true pivot attacks check it out on YouTube. I find shieldbreaker, d-tilt, d-smash the most useful of these. Shieldbreaker literally hits the point you were just standing so it's a pretty good spacing tool. Unfortunately you can't do this out of a continued dash like you can for an Aerial Rush.

6) Running specials - Dashing into Shieldbreaker was made well known by Emblem Lord, and dashing into dancing blade is probably a well known but not very well used tactic. Speaking of dancing blade, the up combo has pretty good range on the top and hits through platforms, so if the opponent jumps to dodge than switch to up.

7) Dancing Blade stall - Dancing Blade is good on recovery. If the opponent is edgehogging right when you normally would Dolphin Slash just b forward once so their invincibility wears out. Dolphin Slash can make it back from a lot of things because of Brawl's auto-grab mechanics and the fact that if you don't hit down Marth floats at the top of his Dolphin Slash for a while. Oh and this may seem obvious but I'll throw it in there... the first dancing blade immediately after a jump gives you a little lift.

8) Fox Trot smash - This one is fairly obvious but fox trotting into a smash is pretty good. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9oqJEXYMM&feature=related)

9) Grab-release Smash - Almost everyone knows this works on Ness (and to a degree Lucas), where you mash the c-stick once you have them in a grab and they're at high percentage so as soon as they escape you smash for the kill. Well this tactic works on more than just them. Although other characters can escape, if you condition your opponents by throwing them normally throughout the match, this can catch them off guard and net you an easy kill. More info (and an example match) can be found here:
(http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4558790#post4558790)

10) Double jump platform land - The FASTEST way a Marth can land on a lower "neutral" platform (such as the ones found on Battlefield and Lylat Cruise) is through this technique. Quickly hit your jump twice when under a platform to land on it faster than you would have with a full hop. You can also use this technique to land from aerials fasters as you approach a platform, which lets you quickly move onto your next attack.
(http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199547)

That's all I can think of for now. Hope this helps you guys.
 

∫unk

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Okay I found fox trot f-smash and the true pivot video. I'm not sure if anyone is aerial rushing I haven't seen a Marth do it yet.
 

acv

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some of this stuff is good but some i would not consider advanced since they are normal game phisycs.
 

∫unk

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Truesight what part of this did you not understand? I'll try to explain more clearly.

acv there are some things that are more obvious (like shield grab out of dash), but I threw it in there because I see newbie Marth's not doing it at all
 

Proverbs

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^ I think just let go of forward and tap B.

Great point about using R+A for dashgrabs. I totally wasn't even thinking about that.

And the foxtrot f-smash is something I definitely have to work on using more T_T;;

Great post.
 

BacklashMarth

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Dancing blade down combo is just as good as any of the other versions. The lag isn't all that bad depending on your spacing. Even if your spacing is bad the pokes at the end will weaken their shield. After that, its a free sheildbreaker later on.
 

∫unk

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can anyone do fair to upB i can
:p just set your cstick to specials it better than the normal way
No. Just no.

Dancing blade down combo is just as good as any of the other versions. The lag isn't all that bad depending on your spacing. Even if your spacing is bad the pokes at the end will weaken their shield. After that, its a free sheildbreaker later on.
Please read my post carefully. I was pretty much saying if they jump and you're in the middle of dancing blade, definitely don't do the down combo whatever you do, and the up combo will still hit them. Obviously the down dancing blade is good.

And the down combo doesn't necessarily have more lag than the other ones, it just lasts longer so if you aren't actually hitting them then they have more time to punish you. And shieldbreaker is never free.

K-k-k-keeennnnnnnn Commmmboooooooooooooooo.
Unfortunately this doesn't work if the opponent learns to airdodge. Trust me I'm trying to develop a reliable spike for Marth (as in, learning the spacing of opponents air dodge so after the first f-air you can anticipate their air dodge and spike).

Edit: I've been playing around with Kizzu's SH forward b -> aerial approach. Shield grab and rolling ***** it but I'm thinking maybe if you continue the dancing blade as you land there may be something useful.
 

Emblem Lord

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Kizzu does some very flashy things and generally plays very unsafe. I wouldn't recommend emulating his style.
 

∫unk

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Yeah some of the things Kizzu gets away with just seems like the opponent doesn't know that Brawl has ridiculously low hit/shield stun ><
 

nonamedn00b

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This is random but i dont know if anyone knows it so

In melee the side b was obviously useful for vertical recovery but now if your recovering and using your second jump at the peak of your jump you side b and it gives you a little extra height which could be the difference between missing or grabbing the edge. The side b just knocks you up a little and there's like no lag so if you upb at the right time there should be a better chance of you grabbing the edge
 

∫unk

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This is random but i dont know if anyone knows it so

In melee the side b was obviously useful for vertical recovery but now if your recovering and using your second jump at the peak of your jump you side b and it gives you a little extra height which could be the difference between missing or grabbing the edge. The side b just knocks you up a little and there's like no lag so if you upb at the right time there should be a better chance of you grabbing the edge
...............
 

Emblem Lord

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How can you apply a combo? Either it works or it doesn't. A combo is a series of consective hits that become unavoidable and unblockable after the first hit.

Ken combo doesn't exist. You can set-up for spikes with non-tippered fairs against certain characters at certain percents. But that is not a combo, since your opponent can still respond and try to avoid the spike.
 

meepxzero

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its not really a combo but yah it sets them up for an easy spike they can air dodge it but theyll end up below the stage and u can probably set up another spike. U know how in melee u can do a short hop fast fall fair on stage then run off the ledge and go for a short hop dair. If they di away and not grab the ledge they instantly get spiked. Its different now cuz they have to di away on ur fair for the combo to work. Its got really precise percent and timing im totally still not aware of yet if anyone wants to experiment with it be my guest.
 

Nodrak

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1) Aerial Rush - Not sure what to call this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this so let me explain. If you're running to the right, you can jump left and be facing left so you can use your f-air going left. The movement is exactly like a Reverse Aerial Rush, just pivot and then jump, but it's used to go back the way you came while facing forward. This is good for people with good f-airs.
If you like that, give this a try..... Ok we don't really remember/know/care what it's actually called so we just call it Pseudo-sticking on the Lucario boards. Basically it's B-sticking without setting your C-stick to B-stick, please excuse our name for it, too lazy to look up the real one.

How to do it: Run > Jump > Preform a special > immediately hit the control stick in the opposite direction to the way your facing.
This will have the same effect as B-sticking except that you'll be facing and moving in the opposite direction as a regular B-stick.
If you RAR > Pseudo-stick you get the exact same effect as B-sticking.

For example (button input): ---> Y B <---
In this example you're running right, jumping right, then you perform your neutralB attack and immediatly hit left on the control stick. You should now be facing and moving left with your sword way out in front of you as Marth's neutralB does. If you are willing to try it, practice it on Marth's neutralB, it's the easiest and has the best results. It's also really the only useful attack for Marth to use with this technique.

To sum up. Basically it's similar to your Aerial Rush but instead you'd be using your neutralB AND you'd be propelled towards the opponent who's chasing you.
 

∫unk

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I don't think Kizzu's style will work against extremely defensive players but we'll see.

I'll post a vid tonight if you guys want to see these... it'll be cell phone quality with no sound but at least you'll know what I'm talking about.

nonamedn00b - I said "..." for a different reason. I mentioned exactly what you said in my thread but I guess you missed it.

nodrak - thanks but I think Emblem mentioned that in his shieldbreaker thread. I'll add it into this thread though good call.
 

nonamedn00b

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Ufff! god i feel like a complete and utter ****** in every way

About Kizzu does he play marth or tlink cause i've seen several toonlink videos of him
 

MarthK7

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I pretty much got the fox trott > fsmash down but I can't seem to get the true pivot thing from the first vid.
 

IDK

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junk... i love you for your reply to marth b-sticking. "no. just no."
i lol'd
 

∫unk

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haha thx bigmack

I updated the first post to include release grab f-smash (or dancing blade). It's a good tactic but I wouldn't recommend spamming it.
 

IDK

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oh so you could keep hitting A then when they get away fsmash? but sometimes they like... fly away... ? could you shieldgrab to KO with this?
 

Kodachrome

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To be honest, this is quite frustrating.

Every single one of these is cake to do, with the notable exception of true pivot attacking. I watched your video, tried to get the timing, but to no avail. I'm no noob, so this is kinda irritating. <_< Anything special you do? I mean, obviously that's not a bread-and-butter technique, but it'd be nice to reliably pull off, for whatever reason.
 
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