Actually using Roy

[MookieRah]

charge b was covered pretty well so far,

My bad if I was using the wrong name for the move, when I say blazer I'm referring to Roy's up-B. I always thought his side B was called flare blade, but I could be wrong.

Obviously this isn't really that good, but I think it's ... something?

Agreed. More of a gimmick trick if someone is hardcore CC'ing everything I suppose. The startup time is a bit long, so if someone was quick they could jab or something. This is why I saying not to just toss it out all the time, that and it only gives Roy a slight positional advantage but no real followup. I think one is likely better off just trying a conventional anti-CC approach, but if you are up against someone that you feel is not the fastest when it comes to reaction (or are in a friendly) it might be a funny thing to attempt.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Most characters deal with crouching just fine.

lol I wish you would explain yourself better. Too many people give these one liners, then fail to ever proper explain or back up what they are saying.

 

[Double Helix]

The reason why crouch cancelling is dealt with so well by other characters, is they have moves that just deal enough damage, have static knockback, or a big enough range to make crouch cancelling less effective. I won't discredit that all characters, to a point, have to worry about it, just that other character boards will not be having a discussion about what to do against it. The point is that it troubles Roy a lot so the discussion is necessary. For other characters, it is simply, deal with it because it will happen sometimes, but it isn't a big deal really.

From what I have seen so far, you want to avoid FD. It seems like you will want the platforms to increase your mobility and make your U-air much less useless. The platforms really seem to help a lot when it comes to getting the much needed damage on your opponent. I guess you want Pokemon, because a top platform seems like it helps them a lot more than you.

Like I said, just throwing in theoretical, untested couple of pennies. How can platforms be used to Roy's advantage? They seem good, but the top platform looks like a trouble causer.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

To me, CC wrecks all characters attacks. Its just the matter of how long into a match does the CC continue to be a problem. Like for Sheik and Marth, CC and follow-up can counter a great number of their potential options, so to get around it they have to rely upon other means. Eventually, Dtilt against a CC attempt from Marth won't be a problem or similar with dash attack from Sheik being the same way. For Roy, it just lasts quite long and he has to put up with it for longer compared to other characters. Is it still a problem for most characters when CC is available, yeah, I think it is.

Platforms! I still cannot find what Roy should be doing while under a platform and someone is stuck on a platform. At lower percents, most of his attacks just don't do enough to actually keep his advantage. Something like Uair doesn't put them into a tech chase situations or sent them up high enough in the air that he can juggle off it by out ranging someone. Otherwise, platforms are great for actually letting him combo off of stuff. Dtilt as a launcher, if they go to a platform, FH Uair into Fsmash typically works.

 

[Double Helix]

I guess for me to completely understand what you mean, you would have to explain to me why exactly being below the opponent is a bad thing. That seems like the best thing for Roy, being able to shffl U-airs to get more percent, whether they are sweet-spotted or not. Sure, the U-airs don't have much knock-back, but if you are able to raise their percentage while limiting their options, why wouldn't you? I mean...you space it so that they can't reach you with their aerials as they fall through the platform right?

Maybe I am underestimating just how bad the neutral game is. Because Fsmash seems really punishable. Why would you get hit when you have the option not to? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Roy is NOT a character that wants to trade.

All I am saying is, the shffl'd U-airs would give you the better percent lead right? Because unless you are on Yoshi's, the Fsmash seems like it has little reward. I guess what I am trying to explain through example is, if few of his attacks do enough to keep the advantage, do percent while you have the advantage then go back to the neutral game.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This is what I am talking about. Even after getting hit by the strong hit on Uair from Roy, Fox is able to land before Roy has even gotten out of aerial landing lag. This happens until like 80% or something until Uair is finally knocking fox over into a tech position. The problem is that fox can CC while on the platform. If you try to use really any aerial on fox after doing say your first shffl Uair he can CC your next hit, then wavedash off the platform or fall through and hit you while in lag. But its not just with fox. Other characters can do this as well or CC is a problem for a real long time if you aren't spacing the strong hit.

Pretty much all the aerials Roy uses have this same effect. Fair, Bair, Dair, Nair. Utilt is no good either because it always hits with the weak hit. Yeah, you can try to shuffle aerials while someone is on a platform, but if your opponent recognizes this they can get away between your shffl attempts even if you are hitting them. Its only at higher percents like 100% where you can full hop a strong hit of an Uair where you can combo into stuff. You do so by full hopping an Uair and hit them, but you end your aerial landing lag on the platform closer to the character. If high enough percent, they are forced to tech or are in enough stun you can follow-up with something like Fsmash on the platform with them. In that respect, full hopping with an aerial onto a platform helps roy combo when it wouldn't otherwise.

If you were on FD, I think Roy can 0 - death fox or falco. On something like battlefield people landing on platforms at lower percents due ot Uthrow or Dtilt will actually get them out of pressure at times because roy doesn't seem to have a move which will keep them locked up there.

 

[MookieRah]

That right there is an excellent post. I'm glad you went and took that picture, cause it pretty much proves what you have said all along about uair. That said, it shouldn't remove uair from being used until this is something that everyone knows how to exploit. I'm assuming that 99.9% of smashers would just assume to let Roy uair from beneath them.

Quick question, does Roy's dair still spike when someone is standing on a platform? I ask because it might be possible to full hop dair when you see them CC'ing on a platform, seeing as how it seems to spike on Roy's body. Granted against Fox one could just shine on reaction, but others can't exploit it as easily, and many wouldn't expect it coming either.

You could also just blazer a light character who is obviously CC'ing as well, cause then they would be sent high enough to make Roy's landing safe. Not nearly as good as being able to uair spam, but it's something.

 

[Double Helix]

@Eryx: Thanks for the clarification. That sucks. I thought that Nair was super good (as far as a Roy move goes). It seems to have the most knockback and is a good spacing option for approaching and retreating. I guess it is more of a neutral game thing, and won't lead to comboing.

The more I think about Roy, the more I start to think about floaties. Floaties that aren't Jiggs and Peach aren't very high on the tier list due to lack of combo ability. From what I see, we need to stop focusing on comparing Roy to Marth and Marth's ability to combo. Most floaties that can combo only combo heavier characters, spacies, and sometimes falcon. Most of them are as high as they are on the tier list due to people who played them, whether it be old or new. Luigi has old-school Ka Master and now there is Vudujin and Abate. Pikachu has Axe. Ness has old school Simna and now Mofo (and me? lol). Samus has DJ Nintendo, Duck, and Plup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk9Z-9fe9n8

This is Samus vs. Fox. In this video around 6:30, Wobbles explains how floaties play. If we start focusing on these isolated hits that Wobbles mentions, how would this expand the ability to use Roy? It seems like if we play him like a floaty due to his crappy moveset, we could push his game further.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

That right there is an excellent post. I'm glad you went and took that picture, cause it pretty much proves what you have said all along about uair. That said, it shouldn't remove uair from being used until this is something that everyone knows how to exploit. I'm assuming that 99.9% of smashers would just assume to let Roy uair from beneath them.

Quick question, does Roy's dair still spike when someone is standing on a platform? I ask because it might be possible to full hop dair when you see them CC'ing on a platform, seeing as how it seems to spike on Roy's body. Granted against Fox one could just shine on reaction, but others can't exploit it as easily, and many wouldn't expect it coming either.

You could also just blazer a light character who is obviously CC'ing as well, cause then they would be sent high enough to make Roy's landing safe. Not nearly as good as being able to uair spam, but it's something.

Well, again. Uair is great with platforms, but only after it starts putting people into teching situations. And that doesn't happen until about 80%. Not saying it shouldn't be used. I just don't see what options Roy should take at that lower percent when someone is on a platform. They just tank a hit and can get away. Tech chasing with Usmash or Blazer seems questionable. Fair suffers like Uair. Dair is only useable from a full hop, but can still have the same problems as Uair, Fair. If you can get the spike hitbox to work it would put them into a tech situation depending upon the DI. Or just put them over the platform with you in lots of ending lag.

Full hop nair seems promising (it autocancels on the platform too). It can knock them off the platform even at 10%. While you cannot guarantee trapping them on the platform it places them in a bad enough spot that you can cover their options. Only draw back is that after getting hit by the first part of Nair, they can crouch cancel the 2nd hit.

Oh, hitting with the spike hitbox will not send them as from away from you and put them in longer stun than hitting with the regular hit. The idea I had was that moves like Dtilt or Uthrow will typically put characters on platforms and into tech chasing positions. When you see the tech you should be able to react to it and use something to follow-up with. But, again the very fact roy hits them gives the chance to escape.

@Eryx: Thanks for the clarification. That sucks. I thought that Nair was super good (as far as a Roy move goes). It seems to have the most knockback and is a good spacing option for approaching and retreating. I guess it is more of a neutral game thing, and won't lead to comboing.

The more I think about Roy, the more I start to think about floaties. Floaties that aren't Jiggs and Peach aren't very high on the tier list due to lack of combo ability. From what I see, we need to stop focusing on comparing Roy to Marth and Marth's ability to combo. Most floaties that can combo only combo heavier characters, spacies, and sometimes falcon. Most of them are as high as they are on the tier list due to people who played them, whether it be old or new. Luigi has old-school Ka Master and now there is Vudujin and Abate. Pikachu has Axe. Ness has old school Simna and now Mofo (and me? lol). Samus has DJ Nintendo, Duck, and Plup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk9Z-9fe9n8

This is Samus vs. Fox. In this video around 6:30, Wobbles explains how floaties play. If we start focusing on these isolated hits that Wobbles mentions, how would this expand the ability to use Roy? It seems like if we play him like a floaty due to his crappy moveset, we could push his game further.

As I said in that post above, Nair seems promising with platform play provided the 2nd hit isn't crouch canceled after hitting with the first.
I just keep using marth as an example because the two are quiet similar in some aspects. Drawing off what you already know works seems a good idea.

Floaty character play I think was summed up by Umbreon pretty well. You just have to win a lot of smaller exchanges throughout the whole match rather than converting off a single hit into a heavy punish. Sheik, Fox, Falco, Ganon, Falcon for example are all characters I think Roy could potentially zero death by just denying their options once he gets that hit in.

 

[darkoblivion12]

I figure I might as well give some of my opinions here. I didn't read through everything but I'm just going to say some stuff.

First, I've been trying to "actually use Roy" for a while now. Not a lot of luck until recently. Went to zenith recently, went even with a lot of good player's foxes (reno, hazz). Took m2k down to 1 stock in roy vs marth (had a boner for a week).

I think I'm fairly good at playing some of our harder matchups (marth, jiggs, samus, peach). The goal is to keep floaties on the ground which we do through DED and throws. The way this plays is by staying in dtilt range the entire time and spacing fairs and dtilts to deal with approaches. Samus and peach you want to pick and poke with fairs, many times foam spotted, to get them to do something stupid and punish it. You can't give samus room to shoot stuff. You can't give peach room to throw stuff. Obviously getting hit happens and you have to learn to powershield missiles and catch turnips, but that's a good baseline for those 2 chars. Marth and jiggs are different. If they choose to fight instead of zone, the matchups becomes much more even. Marth is essentially Marth dittos where your Marth has strange techchase combos. I usually try to take Marth to BF where I can dtilt nair fsmash at low percents. If they DI out of it, they're off stage and punishable anyway. If you don't get the kill on Marth by around 100%, you'll probably spend another whole stock trying to kill him. Jiggs when not bair camping is a battle of reading movement. I was going evenish with Mr. F at Zenith until he started bairing a lot. So I use Roy's FF fairs and DED1 to beat out any approaches and try to fish for flare blades and dsmashes. We have dthrow fsmash on bad DI which helps a lot.

One of the biggest problems I've run into recently has been players that play for just zone control. This includes but isn't limited to: grounded Marths who dtilt a lot and bair spammy jiggs. They lock you in a corner and I've yet to find a way to deal with this effectively. If Marth just throws out dtilts, he can react to our jump and utilt. The threatening part of his dtilt is at the range of crouch canceling our foam spot, so spacing fairs sucks. I just feel it's very hard to get in on Marth's who play standing still. Jiggs zones you into a corner and pretty much prevents you from moving... you know... Jiggs... Anyways, need to think about that stuff more. Night.

 

[MookieRah]

On bair spamming Jiggs:
Sadly the jiggs player in town didn't come to the little smash fest I held the other day, so this remains untested, but my guess is that this should still work effectivley. If Jiggs is in the air and isn't super far away from you, you should be able to just angle a blazer and catch him quite easily. If you make sure to only go for this when you have the option of landing on a platform, then you shouldn't have to worry about a rest if he was baiting and airdodged it.

On blazer versus Marth (and a little of blazer as an anti-air in general):
My local Marth player is very new to the game and is not super great, but I told him to keep to the ground and space with dtilts. When Marth plays like this most of the time blazer is a poor option (pretty much like Eryx said). I still think it would be effective against characters that rely on aerials to pressure, at least when they aren't right on top of you. I still think there is some potential for using this move in ways that haven't been done though.

 

[Double Helix]

@darkoblivion: Do you have any videos? It could really help further our discussion and it would be a good thing overall.

In all honesty, I haven't really tried playing Roy very much. I don't have the patience considering I'm not even that good with Marth. I just really wanna see Roy players exist. Have any of the top players played Roy (regardless of when) even if it was in friendlies? Because if we can fish out some of those videos, it would help us probably.

 

[odinNJ]

If marth is throwing out dtilts I like to bait him into it when I am prepared and then counter with my dtilt during the lag of his. Not sure if this is actually valid at higher levesl because Im still somewhat of a scrub after a year and a half. But I always have liked the marth matchup, because of the fact that as long as I consistantly outspace them I do fine.

 

[ChivalRuse]

A couple of good anti-cornering strategies are wavedashing out of shield and countering out of shield. You can wavedash out of shield when your opponent spaces early moves on your shield (for example, if Jiggs hits a spaced rising bair on your shield), and get to a more favorable position. Counter out of shield requires you to react well to visual cues, but it's pretty self-explanatory.

 

[odinNJ]

Im just going to stop posting my thoughts on this character for a while because I look back every few months or so at my posts and go "wow I was being dumb."

 

[ChivalRuse]

What exactly are you referring to? Don't tell me you're having doubts about Roy now.

 

[odinNJ]

Oh no not at all I love roy to the ends of the earth. I just look back at some of the arguments Ive made in this board and the tier list thread and realize that I didn't have, and still dont have new insights into the game that others could benefit from yet. Thus it makes sense to stop asserting my opinions when they constantly change.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I post a lot of my strategies on the boards, but it's probably not too beneficial because I'm not very good compared with the average player on here.

 

[Double Helix]

Lol. I have been posting nonsense for awhile now. I am not that good and I don't play Roy, but I still posted opinions and threw in a few cents for the benefit of others to shoot it down, or explore as needed. I know what it is like to play a "bad" character. I main Ness and have only been playing for about a year with ATs. So you guys posting your "not useful" strategies and thoughts at least can hold more merit than mine. You guys play(ed) the character after all.

Now more about Roy.

I have played Roy more recently because I am not good as him at all and I want to not just win all the time against the players that are just learning the game in my area, since there aren't that many at all as it is. I have found that I personally have trouble hitting with his side-B (is this what DED is, scrub is showing again, sorry), but when I do hit with it, it rocks. A little bit I have found out: Roy loves the neutral game, but, for me, he loves the edge. Roy can gimp if you can read a jump with a smash attack. So far attacks worth using are Ftilt, Dtilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, side-B, and up-B. I use his Uair through platforms to tack on minimal percent because, seriously, what else do I do? The only throw I have seen really worth any time is U-throw, but I haven't really looked into it that hard or try to follow up. But U-throw retains the neutral game. The only advantageous position Roy has is if they are off-stage and he is on-stage. Any thoughts really? I use grab U-throw against my friends so far because it does retain neutral game and I am better than they are at retaining that position right now. I am just teaching them a few things a little at a time.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I honestly think WL grab or WL d-tilt are better than uair in a lot of cases. Heck, I'm finding more and more that fair (and on occasion nair, but I can't get good results with FJ nair 'cuz of the hang time; always SH or some kind of DJ that goes higher than SH but keeps me from landing on the plat) generally works better than uair when you're attacking someone you've put on platform if only because there's some foreseeable threat in their future if they're close enough to the edge for the attack to make them slip off the platform (and if they're not that close, then make them get there by swinging or running around). In contrast, I feel uair doesn't combo most characters until like 50%+ and it's laggier than fair so it's harder to pressure with and Roy's good spatial negotiation tools (and threats) are all to his side in some manner because of dash, grab, d-tilt, DED, and f-smash. So keeping an opponent mostly above you rather than above you and to the side when you have the choice between the two doesn't really make sense to me.

Fair can be made safe from most crouch counterattacks in that position pretty easily and if they do one anyway then a lot of times that can be an opportunity to u-smash for some janky follow that you can put in your combo video, or keep poking, or do something crazy like dash away pivot shield FJ WL (all together, really fast) so you can land on the platform next to them but outside their counterattack's range and stare deep into their stormy eyes. Eyes that speak the unspoken question that looms over the two characters locked in combat.

"What are you gonna do next?"

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roy's uair is pretty useless. I feel like nair and fair are almost always better, depending on what you're trying to do.

Neutral b in the air has a pretty good hitbox arc above and to the front of Roy, if you ever need to reach in that direction. The knockback is considerably better than all of Roy's aerials too.

 

[odinNJ]

uair has godlike priority and combo ability (compared to roys other moves).

 

[Double Helix]

I don't particularly like Roy's uair. I just didn't have anything better really (though now I do). uair doesn't really seem to actually have that much tech-chase ability, so I don't know where these combos come from. I mostly wish he weren't so heavy x.x or at the very least, could recover reasonably.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Roy's uair does negative stun until 40% where it does exactly 1 frame.

 

[ChivalRuse]

As KK pointed out, Roy's uair doesn't combo. It just sets up for air trapping, which Roy sucks at, so it's almost not worth it. The knockback from an aerial flareblade (not to mention damage) from my calculation, is almost always better than uair, if you have time to get the hitbox out.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@KirbyKaze: I never actually checked that against at least Falco/Fox, but I assumed from Falco/Fox/Marth that Roy couldn't WL onto a platform after Dtilt/Uthrow to actually do something before they got out of lag from their tech animation. All Fox/Falco have to do is shine to get out. Still it might be useable and far better than Uair attemps or really anything else. FlareBlade is far too slow to use at lower percents and you cannot really make precise movements it seems since you cannot adjust momentum after you use the move. Well, Roy might be doomed to have to always have the possibility for an opponent to get out while on a platform.

@ChivalRuse: Uair isn't pointless though. As already stated many times, its great for higher percents. On a platform, its one of his few moves that will lead into Fsmash at around the 100% mark. Additionally, its pretty advantageous when activated while fast falling. It does combo, but only for certain situations.

 

[Ripple]

up air is amazing. it's like roy's best actual aerial.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Uair can work against airborne opponents, sure, just like any other aerial with decent range. The problem is that the knockback isn't good enough at low percents to be worth it. Furthermore, you can CC it on a platform (as was stated a while ago) and actually have a ton of frame advantage against Roy. It does piddly damage too. >_>

Roy can't safely rack up damage, coupled with his low survivability, he loses attrition fights pretty badly. U-throw doesn't do enough vs floaties (unlike Marth) and f-throw / b-throw doesn't have follow ups if your opponent just holds up.

 

[Ripple]

up-throw does fine vs. floaties since it kills them.

and up-air works wonders on grounded people too actually

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roy's out of shield game sucks too. He can't really do aerials out of shield effectively.

 

[Ripple]

side-b OOS is what you need to do instead

 

[ChivalRuse]

I like being able to DI in the air though. Can't do that with side-b because of the set trajectory.

 

[Double Helix]

I prefer nair to side-b but I can't really use side-b that well in the air. SH nair is really good.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Love nair. Definitely my favorite Roy aerial.

 

[Dark Lady]

Can we talk a little bit about the aerial I really don't like on him? The dair. =.=

It's hitbox is meh. It's hitstun, unless sweetspotted, nil. It's landing lag is the highest of his aerials iirc. And I personally don't find much use for it outside of a poor gimp that Flare Blade does soooo much better.

I know MookieRah brought up the possibility of a FJ dair onto the plat, but Roy will land ON the plat if spaced wrong. And if THAT gets shielded... hello landing lag. Anyone find any good options for it, or can we get a consensus that unless you can get sweetspot magic, it's worse than uair. :S

Edit:
Oh, and something Roy can do under the plat: utilt AND ftilt
Dunno about the potency, but it's there. The only tourney viable stage this doesn't work on is DL 64

 

[Fox Hater]

Please dont confuse me with a troll but from what I've read here one of the main issues with roy is that players who use him are not even close to high level of play. Still Im not going to brag or anything just keep learning the fundamentals of melee... Spacing, Edguarding, Pivot, mix ups, grabs, learn to read tech chases, learn how to exploit every character recovery etc etc.

If you all master that Roy will begin to rank higher. Take pikachu, Doc, Ganon, Yoshi, Luigi, etc some dudes decided to learn the fundamentals, practice with dudes that play on a really high level and with experience now you see in tournaments Ganon, Luigi, Yoshi, Pikachu and Doc to place high.

Where Im from there is a guy who is a beast with Link and I though hey maybe we are all crap and that is why he sometimes win.

But then he went to apex and pound and ***** a lot of people and went toe to toe with the big guys.

I personally dont believe that much in tiers so props to all of you for not giving up on roy

I do acknowledge that roys knock back sucks with certain hit angle and is hard to kill on a really high percentage.

But hey, he still has a good anti air with inv framed of 9, meaning he can escape falcos pillars, fox pressure etc. if used below a high platform when you land on it its kind of safe and helps you escape pressure.

Here is an example but with marth hehe http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xsbLZq7AUII#t=13s
you can actually do this with roy out of shield and escape shield pressure. Roy will land on the middle platforms in yoshi story and fountain of dreams.
You cant spam it and you have to learn how to use it. But once you learn it, its really good. It wont kill like marth's but has more inv frames and can help you get out of spacies and sheik pressure, try it.


Roy also has one of the best grabs and range in the game
Roy can kill on low % so its a must you have to learn every match up, % wise too and how to punish. Believe me you can surprise many people with this

Has a good poke with range and speed, Pivot Dtilt is a must.
To punish moves and if you are blocking WD out of shield ( grab or Dtilt or Downsmash -hit with the first hit facing forward comes pretty fast and has a good knockback- )

and if a person has a high percentage and you cant kill, dont panic, roy still has speed, range and ways to escape pressure; use footsies to prevent getting damage and change to a run away/wall of defense and punish. His bair and nair are good for edge guarding and getting the magical hit you need to kill when the opponent is in a really high % his dancing blade to. Hell even B neutral ( with out holding) can put you in a great position

------

Now for the topic of roy below middle platform...

My suggestions is, if you feel confident and they are on high %!! use bair, nair or if you really feel like it upair , land Fsmash.

If they are on a low % I just simply use the situation to rack more %, not to combo. I punish and read my opponents next move. Fore example and the best tool roy has ( marth also has it but since he can combo from below a platform Marth Players dont use it that much )
WL GRAB! then up throw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2s3eKZhyPg&feature=player_detailpage#t=155s

1- If they DI to the higher platform __-----__ then I follow up with another WL grab or I read his tech and Dtil or Fsmash. I they DI outside the edge, depending where I'm facing: either Jump Nair, or Jump Bair. Then after that if the opportunity rises I begin my edgeguard game. If not, I reset to an advantage position.


Like I said before learning the fundamentals will help you destroy your avarage player out there and will at least make you go toe to toe with top players.

Enjoy Roy and Keep it UP If I get a vid done soon Ill upload it so you get ideas, I also have a good DK here in PR.


Keep what I said in mind or change to marth hehe


PS: I love playing with Roy on FoD and in yoshistory because of the platforms and I kill on low %, especially against Fox , Falco. what do you guys think?? DL and BF the platforms are too high...

 

[Double Helix]

stuff

I won't take you for a troll. I will ask you one thing though, just for clarification. How many people have you faced actually new the Roy matchup? It is quite different (easier) than the Marth matchup. I will be the first person to tell you: I suck at spacing Roy's moves. However, when I was up against people who I am far better than in terms of mechanics and fundamentals, while I still won, I did not feel even a little good about winning. Before I go on, I have no desire to main or secondary Roy, I just want to help those that do push the meta-game for this character (somehow). You mentioned some of the pitfalls yourself. I will say that while I am still working on fundamentals, I am (according to myself, sadly no videos) good enough at them to see what this character has going for him (considering the amount of new people I am trying to teach), and I must say that after a few games, the games got closer and closer. Yes, his grab range is good, but what throw do you use? U-throw is only good if you read a tech or something. Uair has been discussed, it is not that good, and WL -> anything good seems to be our best option right now.

I do think that the videos you posted should at least have Roy in them. As I said before: Marth is VERY different from Roy due to the way you must space, speed, and which moves have what (if any, in Roy's case) utility. I don't mean to sound harsh, but while you DO play Roy more than I do, I don't think it is fair to say that we need to work on fundamentals (as important as they are and as true or false as that may be).

One more thing about your post. You say you don't believe in tiers. Congrats. I don't really like them myself, but I have to admit they do exist. The reason they exist is BECAUSE some characters have more bad matchups than others. Unfortunately, your friend who went to those tournaments is not a viable example. Regardless of who he is, tier lists are not perfect. Knowledge of matchups, playstyles, and difference in skill make a huge difference. Last thing, though probably the most important: these guys don't play Roy (and I don't play Ness) because they don't believe in tiers. We play the characters we do because they are just that much fun, and, in my case, if I stopped playing my character, I wouldn't enjoy the game nearly as much.

All that said, thank you for actually contributing to the conversation lol.

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Next move to talk about. Ftilt. I like it. Go.

 

[Dark Lady]

Next move to talk about. Ftilt. I like it. Go.

Ftilt. I like it too. If you space it against airborne opponents, it is really effective because they can't just CC the knockback or shield it for a counter grab. It can be used under the plat. And it's got pretty decent range, and can mix-up with a jab for MORE UNPREDICTABILITY! :O

And... it can be an alternative for Side B if your opponent is predicting/baiting it. I wouldn't use it on a grounded opponent unless they were on a plat though.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

So, I dont know if this thread is dead or not, but I'll post here anyways.

Some BnB Combos That I love to use.

U-Air / F-Air -> D-Tilt -> Grab/N-air/DED 1 (All of the last can be done at lower %)
U-Air / F-Air -> D-Tilt -> N-Air (All other %)
D-Tilt / DED 1 -> Reverse Blazer (D-tilt is at 0%) (I only use this on Jigglypuff.

I see a lot of potential in Roy. I really do. I have a Biweekly coming up and im gonna go straight roy. I hope i make it onto stream. Every top character is played, so I will try everything I have read.

So, Here are some little "Niche" things I think that Roy posesses:
-Niche should be misunderstood as "Gimmicks"
-Roy has a solid anti air option which can be used out of a dash dance. It can also be combo'd into a grab / D-tilt. This is an excellent answer to N-air approaching fox. Then Mindgames goes into when will the enemy CC you.
-Has almost the same movement as Marth in WD combination across the stages. I find it easiest to WL everywhere on Yoshi's Story. Those platforms just love Roy's Double Jump.
-When an opponent is above me on a platform i just wait like Marth under a platform, but instead I do N-air inplace of Marth's U-Air/U-Tilt. N-air on a platform chase sets up as an Edge-Guard, or a Fall Off Platform F-air combo extender.
-I'm gonna start Getting %s of when U-Air -> F-Smash works on all Top Tiers.
-I believe most of the Top Tier match ups aren't AS bad as people think.(besides ICs and Sheik)
-So Fox and Falco get chain grabbed A LOT easier once they are at 25%. Roy can gimp them very easily. With the combination power of F-Smash, Flare Blade, Counter, and DED1(Roy can FH DED1 and DJ back and recover, which may be useful)
-Falcon is 55-45 IMO of Falcon's favor. And He has slight advantage because he is faster and can bait moves out easily.
-Jigglypuff and Peach I feel you just have to be very patient. Like VERY patient. Just bait out and Reverse Blazer Jiggles. You can DED1 the turnips from peach. Just don't CC a lot, and catch her when she isn't. You just cant play your specific game. You need to control the way peach plays her game. I hop that made sense lol.
-Marth, This is a very tough match up. Precisely because he outranges your entire arsenal. You just need to be a better poker, and baiter in this match up.

I may just be rambling and not knowing what I'm talking about and if you guys have anything to add just let me know! I want to learn as much as I can! :D

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roy vs Peach matchup is