A turn around button.

[Kkimble]

I recognize that part of the skill in this game is being able to tilt/roll your stick to do a reverse up B or maintain a bair combo while pursuing the enemy (RAR Bair) or perform a wave dash. But when these things fail you often see even the pros will accidentally suicide. We know they are high skill mechanics that can be used but even the highest level players will avoid trying because it is too risky if performed incorrectly, and they are performed incorrectly all the time. What a sad thing to watch in a competitive match. If the game simply had a button that turned your character around these combos would be easier but more importantly less suicides and more interesting matches.
Adding this button will also allow a new mechanic for player to direction their character after a dodge roll. (This used to be a gimmick skill where a player had to shield cancel to perform a short dash without turning around).

 

[Oddball]

Seems pointless to me. You're talking about adding something that would only be used by the people that are already super good at the game. Even then, what exactly is that going to do that's different from what's already done now? People that make mistakes because they push (or don't push) the wrong thing on their controller aren't going to suddenly stop making mistakes because now there's a different thing to push on the controller.

I don't understand how you think facing the wrong direction is a gimic skill. Even the most basic beginners know which direction you're supposed to face. What gets people is when they try to get too fancy and can't pull it off.

 

[Kkimble]

Seems pointless to me. You're talking about adding something that would only be used by the people that are already super good at the game. Even then, what exactly is that going to do that's different from what's already done now? People that make mistakes because they push (or don't push) the wrong thing on their controller aren't going to suddenly stop making mistakes because now there's a different thing to push on the controller.

I don't understand how you think facing the wrong direction is a gimic skill. Even the most basic beginners know which direction you're supposed to face. What gets people is when they try to get too fancy and can't pull it off.

As an example when you press up B as Roy you will travel up at an angle based on the direction you are facing. You can’t grab edge if you are facing the wrong way so the only way to get back is to press up B and quickly roll the stick to perform a reverse up B. But if a player could simply push a button to turn them around and then press up B then they would already be facing the right way. In the same way, sprinting forward and jumping and turning simultaneously to conserve momentum for a bair is hard and loses games when messed up. But if players could simply turn by pressing a button this would be much easier.
It would probably be used much more by lower level players who struggle with these techniques.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Haven't read the full posts but yeah I'd like to see this.

Have it sort of like a macro that can relieve RAR Bairs, RAR OoS options and a way to turn in the air, just a nice alt option.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

As an example when you press up B as Roy you will travel up at an angle based on the direction you are facing. You can’t grab edge if you are facing the wrong way so the only way to get back is to press up B and quickly roll the stick to perform a reverse up B. But if a player could simply push a button to turn them around and then press up B then they would already be facing the right way. In the same way, sprinting forward and jumping and turning simultaneously to conserve momentum for a bair is hard and loses games when messed up. But if players could simply turn by pressing a button this would be much easier.
It would probably be used much more by lower level players who struggle with these techniques.

Most recovery moves are easy to turn around anyways. If you are Roy and you're looking away from the stage, just Up B diagonally towards the stage. It's simple enough as it is rather than having to press a button then sliding my thumb towards the B to execute the recovery. Having another input for that just adds unnecessary complexity to such a simple mechanic.

And just because you refuse to properly implement B reverse in your gameplan as a movement option, it doesn't make it a gimmick. The feature was introduced in Brawl and seeing how it has remained to this day it shows that the devs knew what they were doing by implementing it. Learning to move around with it isn't for the sake of avoiding an SD, but to outplay your opponent. Just watch Quik's Samus or Blucas's Lucas.

It just sounds like you are making excuses to avoid learning this mechanic. If players struggle turning around, they should go to training mode and practice.

People will sometimes misinput a command for whatever reason and the additional option isn't going to make this go away. It happens less often in competitive play; I rarely see top players losing because of a misinput. It will happen occasionally because human error is something you can't completely get out of the equation. But it's not like this is happening very often, so you are looking for a solution to a non problem.

 

[Kkimble]

Most recovery moves are easy to turn around anyways. If you are Roy and you're looking away from the stage, just Up B diagonally towards the stage. It's simple enough as it is rather than having to press a button then sliding my thumb towards the B to execute the recovery. Having another input for that just adds unnecessary complexity to such a simple mechanic.

And just because you refuse to properly implement B reverse in your gameplan as a movement option, it doesn't make it a gimmick. The feature was introduced in Brawl and seeing how it has remained to this day it shows that the devs knew what they were doing by implementing it. Learning to move around with it isn't for the sake of avoiding an SD, but to outplay your opponent. Just watch Quik's Samus or Blucas's Lucas.

It just sounds like you are making excuses to avoid learning this mechanic. If players struggle turning around, they should go to training mode and practice.

People will sometimes misinput a command for whatever reason and the additional option isn't going to make this go away. It happens less often in competitive play; I rarely see top players losing because of a misinput. It will happen occasionally because human error is something you can't completely get out of the equation. But it's not like this is happening very often, so you are looking for a solution to a non problem.

I am 100% noob and this is hard for me but I don’t recommend it only for myself. When you watch the pros even they accidentally suicide because of this. But even if they don’t I would rather see a win based on combos and outplay not because of a botched recovery.

 

[Kkimble]

Haven't read the full posts but yeah I'd like to see this.

Have it sort of like a macro that can relieve RAR Bairs, RAR OoS options and a way to turn in the air, just a nice alt option.

Thank you I couldn’t remember that they were called RAR Bair.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I am 100% noob and this is hard for me but I don’t recommend it only for myself. When you watch the pros even they accidentally suicide because of this. But even if they don’t I would rather see a win based on combos and outplay not because of a botched recovery.

Losing a game or a set because of a suicide is still rare. Nobody is born a master; players should strive to learn the game as they play it.

 

[Kkimble]

It is a fact that wave dashing and B reversing and RAR bairs are high level skill techniques. But if you watch any pro match you do not see use of these skills much at all. They are too risky if the input is wrong, and they often are wrong. Seriously watch some matches, they wiff the techniques all the time. They need to be made easier with a turn around button.

it will also introduce a much needed function, to be able to turn around within a dodge roll to face the other way when exiting the animation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They are too risky if the input is wrong.

This applies to literally any mechanic in any fighting game ever. A turnaround button just adds an extra input, meaning essentially more work to do basic stuff. The reason you don't see RARs all the time is because you can't just throw out a Bair, not because the technique isn't useful. Hell, I see it all the time whenever Chrom or Roy play whenever they get a jab to secure a kill. There's honestly no point to a turnaround button, hell, the dodge roll example you provided is already sort of in the game, what would you be able to do with a turnabout button in that scenario that you can't already do? Jabs or grabs are the only thing I can think of, and it's not worth adding an extra step to do anything, like how L Canceling got removed because it's an extra step when you can just lower landing lag universally

 

[Kkimble]

This applies to literally any mechanic in any fighting game ever. A turnaround button just adds an extra input, meaning essentially more work to do basic stuff. The reason you don't see RARs all the time is because you can't just throw out a Bair, not because the technique isn't useful. Hell, I see it all the time whenever Chrom or Roy play whenever they get a jab to secure a kill. There's honestly no point to a turnaround button, hell, the dodge roll example you provided is already sort of in the game, what would you be able to do with a turnabout button in that scenario that you can't already do? Jabs or grabs are the only thing I can think of, and it's not worth adding an extra step to do anything, like how L Canceling got removed because it's an extra step when you can just lower landing lag universally

In most cases you would be performing the same amount of steps but using different buttons rather than a lot of stick movement. This would make the same mechanic simpler.
Ex: Doing a reverse wave dash, b cancel, side b requires jump/direction back/Side B/direction back. (Difficult to time this) The same thing with a turn around button requires jump/turnaround/side B/direction back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In most cases you would be performing the same amount of steps but using different buttons rather than a lot of stick movement. This would make the same mechanic simpler.
Ex: Doing a reverse wave dash, b cancel, side b requires jump/direction back/Side B/direction back. (Difficult to time this) The same thing with a turn around button requires jump/turnaround/side B/direction back.

Again, I really don't see the need for such a specific scenario, especially considering fighting game mechanics basically demand risk and reward

 

[rlwrgh]

Maybe just allow desync between direction and smash sticks so can do like a fade away back air or whatever.

 

[Kkimble]

Again, I really don't see the need for such a specific scenario, especially considering fighting game mechanics basically demand risk and reward

That is fair no one has to agree. But I think this would be generally useful for many scenarios.

 

[Kkimble]

Maybe just allow desync between direction and smash sticks so can do like a fade away back air or whatever.

Help me out what do you mean?

 

[rlwrgh]

Help me out what do you mean?

As it is right now the control stick in smash mode does the equivalent of hitting that direction plus a so for instance you can't use it to hit a smash in one direction while using the other stick to move in the other so like a retreating back smash. My idea was to make smash attacks when using stick not be synced with movement so one could use it to turn around or do smashes in opposite direction of current movement.

 

[Kkimble]

As it is right now the control stick in smash mode does the equivalent of hitting that direction plus a so for instance you can't use it to hit a smash in one direction while using the other stick to move in the other so like a retreating back smash. My idea was to make smash attacks when using stick not be synced with movement so one could use it to turn around or do smashes in opposite direction of current movement.

Oh yeah I like this idea a lot. So if I’m at pressing back on movement stick and forward on the smash stick I might quickly turn and smash even though I was running the other way? How would that help the B specials?