A skilled Roy can beat any Fox

[LSDX]

Please discuss.

 

[SebastianPhoton]

yeah we need more skill : |

 

[Comet7]

a skilled roy can beat bad foxes that don't ban FD

 

[ChessMix]

A skilled sethlon can beat any fox.

 

[Orion_]

Idea: pick Roy, see if your opponent will agree to Corneria, then f-throw -> d-tilt them against a wall until 300%. It might take a few hours practicing your nonchalant stage requesting to make it a true combo though.

 

[Boss N]

……Well sine this discussion is going no where productive, here's what I want to know:

What are Roy's strengths?

What are his flaws and how are those flaws holding him back against the higher tier characters?

How have people been playing Roy? What worked and what hasn't?

Boom, discuss

 

[LSDX]

dtilt dreams

 

[Lime Cultivist]

A Fox that hasn't gone up against Roys before
Dtilt -> Fsmash into oblivion

 

[Orion_]

You can up throw fox and other fast-fallers just like Marth can, except it's a lot harder because you have to turn around a bit more. You also have very low percent forward throw chains.

 

[-ACE-]

A skilled sethlon can beat any fox.

Lol no.

 

[MarthZ]

A skilled Roy can beat a beginner fox

 

[1MachGO]

……Well sine this discussion is going no where productive, here's what I want to know:

What are Roy's strengths?

He has watered down variants of Marth's grab and movement. Dtilt is real gud. Has passable matchups on FD vs. fastfallers. Can't get waveshined, I guess.

What are his flaws and how are those flaws holding him back against the higher tier characters?

...

...

. . .

Well off the top of my head, he gets death CG'd by Shiek, Doc, Mario, ICs, and Ganon (maybe even G&W too?), so if gets grabbed once by these characters its a theoretical stock since his recovery is probably the worst in the game. Shiek/Roy in particular is probably unwinnable for Roy starting a mid level play. The CG is literally Shiek on Shiek tier of horribleness except you've removed variance since there is only one Shiek.

I don't see what the ****ing **** he could ever do vs. Marth, Peach, or Samus, either. Marth is basically the faster, longer ranged, and superior designed edition of Roy. Much like how Shiek vs. Roy is basically Shiek CG'ing a Shiek who can't fight back, Marth vs. Roy might as well be Marth fighting a Marth who can't fight back. Roy could secure a DED or randy dthrow fsmash from time to time, but it utterly pales in comparison to Marth's guaranteed uthrow>utilt follow ups into massive combos and prompt deaths.

The heavy floaties are likely Roy's ultimate bane, though. I suppose he could outmaneuver Peach and Samus, but that is asking a lot when he is fighting characters who can CC virtually anything he does and reliably combo or kill him under 100%. What threat does his movement possess when he can't hit confirm into a combo? He gets nothing off dtilt other than impossible to maintain positional advantage and his offstage edgeguarding is nearly non-existent so early KOs are out of the window. Marth's will complain about their ability to kill both of these characters, but lets be real, Marth can reliably combo or get them to kill percent in roughly ~10 clean hits or 3-4 openings. Considering Roy's average damage output, we are looking at nearly triple the amount of clean hits and probably 5x as many openings. It is absurd to think these matchups are winnable at high level.

Would not be surprised if he dies instantly to Pikachu's bthrow gimps on account of his high fall speed and extremely limited recovery options.

So of the characters listed above him, I would say that Shiek, Peach, Samus, Marth, Pikachu, Doc, and Mario are all unwinnable matchups at high level play (listed in order of insurmountable-ness) but characters like Falco, Falcon, ICs, Fox, Ganon, Luigi, Yoshi, and maybe even G&W are probably hard counters (like ICs Peach level hard counters). Puff is theoretically his best match up since he can OHKO her, but its still probably heavily out of his favor since she ultimately matches him and outclasses him in every other aspect.

Now for fastfallers, you could argue that Roy isn't particularly bad vs them since he can play the neutral with dtilt and occasionally get a DED or fsmash finisher, but it feels painfully obvious that his tools are so linear that they'd really only pay off somewhat on FD. Marth has some of the best movement, edgeguarding, platform control, combos, and zoning in the game and even then, his match ups vs. fastfallers are generally considered even by the general consensus. Now you take away or reduce all of those perks, give him a worse recovery, and amplify his vulnerability to combos? Forget it. They could probably just platform camp him and he'd have no answers for it.

How have people been playing Roy? What worked and what hasn't?

Play SD: Remix, PM, or don't play Roy.

 

[Orion_]

Roy vs. Marth is difficult (as most matchups are) but not impossible. If you can get Marth offstage and then whack him with your noodle while he's recovering, he's just as dead as if you hit him with a real sword. Ganon isn't bad at all, you just stuff any moves he throws out and play like a ***** until he makes a mistake. There's no way you're going to run in and trade hits, but neither can most characters.

Brawl Minus Roy is where it's at though. He has jet feet!

 

[pseudomac]

i want to believe

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Roy has a lot of tools that give him the edge against Fox. And by edge I mean the edge of his sword. Roy has a sword, and Fox doesn't. This means you can outspace him just by swinging your sword at him every time he approaches! Roy's lack of kill power doesn't matter when you can consistently hit Fox out of his approaches. As long as you keep outspacing him, you won't take damage, so all you have to do is be patient until you can kill him with the f-smash at 350%.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

Pic related

 

[LSDX]

Roy has a lot of tools that give him the edge against Fox. And by edge I mean the edge of his sword. Roy has a sword, and Fox doesn't. This means you can outspace him just by swinging your sword at him every time he approaches! Roy's lack of kill power doesn't matter when you can consistently hit Fox out of his approaches. As long as you keep outspacing him, you won't take damage, so all you have to do is be patient until you can kill him with the f-smash at 350%.

>f-smash
>not u-throw

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

>f-smash
>not u-throw

But f-smash uses his sword, and Fox doesn't have a sword

 

[MurphyPrime]

I don't know if Samus is particularly bad. Like, it's not good, but I don''t think it's anymore unwinnable than Luigi.

......

A skilled Smash 4 Roy can beat any Fox....

 

[vZakat]

Don't bring a sword to a gun fight.

 

[MurphyPrime]

True, but missiles aren't actual super effective if you walk up slowly and forward tilt. It still sucks big time though

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Lol no.

sethlon can barely beat ANYONE on ANY sort of PR

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

If you counter everything, you CAN'T LOSE.

 

[MurphyPrime]

You can't counter a grab . Roy gets screwed hard by grabs from Foxes or Falcons, etc.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

he gets ****ed off of any grab tbh

 

[MurphyPrime]

Pretty much. Roy gets screwed by A LOT of things. Edge guards, crouch cancels. I really wish Roy was better.