A roster analysis by Mr Nintendo. A look at who else is left to add

[NintenRob]

So I've been thinking, who could be left they could add to this game? And I'm thinking characters left to speculate over is smaller than ever. This topic is going to be more about unique fighters, but I'll mention echoes as I go

I believe, we've seen every character from a new franchise already. This is because of both the stage select screen and the sound test.

I believe we've seen every stage already. They said all stages will be unlocked from the start when showing the stage select screen, and said a total of 103, even pointing out exactly 100 when not counting the Smash originals. Also we see all the series emblems in the sound test, with the other section for smaller stuff. This to me tells me we're not getting anything new that warrants it's own sound test section. And it definitely seems it's limited to franchises with playable characters, as Pilotwings and Wii Sports seems to be relegated to other. (And I don't believe Sakurai has ever purposely removed something from a menu just to keep a secret. Obviously he's fuzzyd something and used the select icon to hide Zelda in melee, but he didn't actually remove any thing)

The only exception I can see to this, is an old school retro franchise, which are the only franchises with playable characters listed in the other section. Something like R.O.B. who doesn't really need a stage, or perhaps already has a stage. We're getting a new wrecking crew remix so perhaps something from that? We've gotten a NES retro character each game since Melee so it's definitely something we should consider. The other big possibility to me is Diskun, the Famicom mascot who still shows up from time to time. He even had a trophy in Melee.

So aside from those two, I think every other character left comes from existing franchises. This narrows the potential characters down considerably. I hope for the sake of Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven fans I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. For now, I'm gonna go through each the current franchises and see who stands

Mario: King Boo, Paper Mario and Geno are really the only remaining ones at this point. King Boo sadly doesn't really have the demand and Square is being stingy still. Paper Mario has a chance, even had his stage. But personally I think Mario already has so much it won't get anything unique this time, and it did get Daisy anyway. What do you think?

DK: Just got K Rool, Dixie and Funky could work as echoes but I'm more interested in unique character in this topic. Dixie could be unique too, but with limited space I have my doubts

Zelda: All eyes are on Skull Kid. His biggest competition are either deconfirmed or echo material (Impa) and people have been begging for more Zelda characters. With his assist trophy missing, leaks to help and many many things that make you go "Could this mean..? " Skull Kid has a pretty good chance

Metroid: We got Ridley and Dark Samus

Yoshi: Aside from maybe Yarn Yoshi echo, I don't expect much from here

Kirby: Bandana Dee is one of the reasons I'm doing this, there doesn't seem much reason to exclude him except maybe priorities elsewhere. So I'm seeing what other priorities there are. Hopefully he gets his prize. He certainly has the popularity for it

StarFox: Krystal was the most popular choice. And she's been deconfirmed. And Andross shows up as an assist trophy again too

Pokemon: I'm thinking we are getting one now. Even without an Alolan stage, we have a lot of other Pokemon stages and Tortimer Island was used for a stand in when revealing Alolan Exeggcutor. Who do I think? Personally Tapu Koko. He has the prominence in the game, anime and promotion that a Pokemon tends to have. Lycanroc or a starter is another real possibility. However I have my doubts on a starter because we already have fair few of them. But that's just me, let me know what you think.

F-Zero: a few characters could work as an echo. But the eternal damnation the series is in leads me to believe we're not getting anyone new

Earthbound: Same as F-Zero, Lots of cool echoes but with the series ending long ago, it's hard to justify another character. Some people like to look at Masked Man and Porky as new villains but I have my doubts.

Fire Emblem: the only non retro franchise from Melee that already has a heck of a lot of characters and also got Chrom as an echo. Fates is also still the most recent brand new Fire Emblem game. So I highly doubt we'll see anything more from here

Wario: Ashley was the character everyone wanted from this franchise, even I have my doubts of anyone but her getting in. But unfortunately she was deconfirmed, so I doubt we're getting anything

Kid Icarus: Kid Icarus does offer a lot of unique characters. But it's most popular character not playable, Viridi has been deconfirmed. Some suggest Medusa as an echo.

Pikmin: Sadly, Pikmin suffers from lack of variety in its cast. Poor Alph couldn't even be more than Alt

Sonic: Shadow could be an Echo. But until I see it, I don't believe we're getting any unique second additions to the third parties. Plus sidekick Tails was seen on Green Hill. Although the role is really minor

Snake: See Sonic, maybe Raiden as an echo??

Animal Crossing: I consider Isabelle the most likely character as of right now. What I'm unsure if she'd be echo or unique. I'm leaning towards echo now as it'd just be easier and there isn't as much to draw from for her. It's certainly could go either way with her prominence.

Mega Man: pretty much all the popular choices are gone, even as echoes. I think I heard Roll was a clone in an MvC so maybe an echo?

Wii Fit: For obvious reasons, not happening

Punch-Out: There is just no demand for it. No one really stands out either aside from Doc Louis

Pac-Man: Maybe Ms Pac-Man but obviously nothing unique

Xenoblade: Oh dear. Elma and Rex are really popular choices but I'm starting to doubt both. Again I believe we've gotten every stage already. I believe if either of those 2 got in, they would have gotten a stage. Especially Elma since X is really nothing like the original. And Rex I'm feeling is too new regardless. This is the hardest part to predict though. As for characters from the original game, most of the popular characters are in Shulks Final Smash. I have the least amount of confidence in this but I believe that if we got one, we would've gotten a stage too.

Street Fighter: Ken echo definitely, worth noting the huge increase in Street Fighter songs

Final Fantasy: with only two songs, I doubt we're getting anything new here.

Bayonetta: While Jeanne is an obvious Echo choice, Bayonetta still has her colour based on Jeanne. So doubtful. And I can't see them doing Rosa instead.

Splatoon: Octolings could be an Echo but that's it

Castlevania: I think we already know most of what's coming from this franchise.



So looking at every franchise? What characters does that leave us?

Based on all this I believe our unique character lineup is.

Skull Kid
Tapu Koko
Bandana Dee
Diskun

I opted for Diskun because the real stars of Wrecking Crew is really just the Mario Bros, you could go foreman spike but he was essentially replaced by Wario and Waluigi. Diskun also has more history with Nintendo and generally makes more sense not to have a stage. The only other character I could see at this point is Bubbles or Much Rider. But Diskun just has more history with Nintendo.

As for echoes, I reckon Impa, Isabelle, Dixie, Shadow and Ken. Maybe more but it's hard to say how many echoes they can add.

Feel free to leave your own take on this, I'd love to see what others say. Looking at each franchise, who do you think is left they could add? Or do you believe I'm wrong about no more stages and franchises? Post your own theory on what characters are still possible.

 

[Blue7113]

I’ve never even heard of Diskun. To me he sounds irrelevant and unpopular.

I’d be fine with no Pokémon this time around, as I feel the series is pretty well represented as is. Plus didn’t Sakurai choose the character lineup between 2015-2016?

Bandana Dee and Skull Kid are good though, but I’d add Isaac and maybe Geno, personally. But I could also see the Chorus Kids, since the Gematsu leak is only missing them. I’d love to see Black Shadow and Masked Man, but I agree, they’re pretty unlikely.

The echoes look pretty good. I hate Shadow but he’s pretty likely at this point.

 

[osby]

Nice analysis overall, but I think you can think more about Pokémon. Tapu Koko is not the only choise and some older Pokémon might have popularity enough to justify their inclusion.

 

[NintenRob]

Nice analysis overall, but I think you can think more about Pokémon. Tapu Koko is not the only choise and some older Pokémon might have popularity enough to justify their inclusion.

Tapu Koko was just my personal choice. I did mention Lycanroc and the starters. However narrowing it down is borderline impossible as a lot of Pokemon have a lot of pros and a lot of come going against.

Tapu Koko is just who I believe has the highest favour to pro in a pro : con ratio. With Lucasroc in second. I feel with Lycanroc, his Dusk form is just too new compared to other Pokemon. I believe Sakurai would have chosen the new Pokemon pretty early on as development started for both closer to each other than before. Gen 7 Pokemon would have been available to choose much sooner on so he wouldn't have had to wait. And Tapu Koko was featured quite a bit in promotion during the pre-release and has the added benefit of having a prominent anime role, prominent game (being the start and end of your adventure) and even a lot of TCG cards.


However Tapu Koko is more a stand in right now for "Gen7 Pokemon". I have no reason however to believe an older Pokemon would be chosen. Especially with Let's Go Eevee being a pokeball Pokemon

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Happy to see I'm not the only one who thinks Tapu Koko is in a really strong position, it featured in so much of Gen 7's early promotion, and I think there's something to be said of S/M literally beginning and ending with it, it was clearly meant to be one of the generation's front figures from the start, which is very important when it comes to the timing of Ultimate's project plan. I also think its unique fighting style could have drawn Sakurai towards it, a lot of people seem to focus on its typings already being represented, but you could really do something cool with its shield-like "weapons", its ability to retract itself into a defensive stance, and the guardian dieties' general focus on terrain manipulation.

It's not even that I want it badly, I really don't care for Gen 7, I just think it's got a lot going for it, even compared to Incineroar, who I feel most people are expecting on the simple basis that it's looking like Ash will get one. Not that Incineroar doesn't have a chance, I just think people are often lazy in their reasoning for it.

Atm my predictions are looking exactly like yours when it comes to unique newcomers, except I have Geno in place of Diskun. I don't think the lack of Final Fantasy songs is an indication of Square Enix's unwillingness to negotiate anything as much as it is about how complicated it is to get the rights to use the music specifically. If it was because Square themselves were generally being that difficult then I don't think it'd even have been possible to get Cloud in to begin with, under normal circumstances a character would be far harder to negotiate than music, as would Midgar be with its many references, so the fact that we're not even getting one more song tells me it's not necessarily a Square issue, but the potential influence of additional rights holders to the music is what's making it difficult.

 

[NintenRob]

If it was because Square themselves were generally being that difficult then I don't think it'd even have been possible to get Cloud in to begin with

Keep in mind, Sakurai mentioned that the "Everyone is Here" was very difficult to pull off and almost didn't, and while I'm not 100% sure, I'm pretty sure he cited licensing issues as an obstacle.

At first I think we all assumed he was talking about Snake, but since it's become pretty clear they've been very open to whatever Sakurai wants, and Sega, Capcom and Namco don't appear to be an issue either.

And then there's Cloud. With the exact same content he had before. If Sakurai had issues with licensing, then I think it was Cloud who gave him those issues. I think we're lucky to have him back.

 

[osby]

Tapu Koko was just my personal choice. I did mention Lycanroc and the starters. However narrowing it down is borderline impossible as a lot of Pokemon have a lot of pros and a lot of come going against.

Tapu Koko is just who I believe has the highest favour to pro in a pro : con ratio. With Lucasroc in second. I feel with Lycanroc, his Dusk form is just too new compared to other Pokemon. I believe Sakurai would have chosen the new Pokemon pretty early on as development started for both closer to each other than before. Gen 7 Pokemon would have been available to choose much sooner on so he wouldn't have had to wait. And Tapu Koko was featured quite a bit in promotion during the pre-release and has the added benefit of having a prominent anime role, prominent game (being the start and end of your adventure) and even a lot of TCG cards.


However Tapu Koko is more a stand in right now for "Gen7 Pokemon". I have no reason however to believe an older Pokemon would be chosen. Especially with Let's Go Eevee being a pokeball Pokemon

Well, thanks to the ballot, we can get a Pokémon from any generation, if popular enough. I'm sceptical about a last Gen mon personally, I think they might be too new.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

I personally wouldn't count the possibility of characters such as Isaac out just yet. It's not much, but I got my reasons.
Sakurai said the following in the direct (around 11:23):

"*Now* the total number of stages is: Voila, 103." Which could mean either: All of the stages we've shown so far make up 103, or the total number of stages in ultimate is 103. I could see it being either or. However, as you mentioned, there is the part of the music selection. But I'm pretty sure stuff like the Meta Ridley alt wasn't in the E3 build, and I think the possibility of them cutting out a square from the music selection as well as a stage or two from the direct is a possibility as well, when taking that into account.

As for your predictions per franchise:
Mario: I had originally counted Geno as a very high possibility. He got a costume at least in smash 4, but if we assume that the licensing troubles were from Square Enix's end... I'm not too sure whether we'll see him back in any shape or form. Isaac's AT was cut from smash 4, so it something to consider. I still consider Captain Toad as a possibility, albeit not a big one, as they could just remove him from the New Donk stage when he's being played as. (Or he's actually a confirmed stage hazard and I'm just sounding like an idiot.) Paper Mario has a shot as well. But as you said, Mario already has quite a bit, so I'm doubting their chances.

DK: I agree with the notion on Dixie. She's probably going to be an echo. But if Roy and Chrom any indication, echoes don't need a one-to-one moveset translation, so I still feel like she could have DK's Up-B and a unique double jump if she gets in.

Zelda: Basically what you said, I feel like Impa being revealed alongside him is a strong possibility. Though I can't count out the possibility of Skull Kid being a boss fight.

Kirby: Bandana Dee's the only one I think they *could* add. If characters such as Marx or Magolor get in, I feel like they'd be a boss fight in the vein of Dracula and Rathalos.

Pokémon. ...I honestly don't think they'll be adding a new Pokémon at all. Most, if not all characters revealed so far have all been pretty high requests, and I feel like that trend's going to keep going. As such, if we DO get a Pokémon, I can only imagine it being Sceptile due to AS/OR being released half a year before the ballot, which would mean that he'd probably get the most votes of all Pokémon. On a different note, Sakurai did hesitate with Corrin already due to the amount of Fire Emblem characters already in. Now, Chrom was added, sure. But he was an easy addition as an echo fighter, on top of a highly requested one, and FE now sits at 7 characters, 2 of which are echoes. Pokémon, now that Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu have returned, sits at a total of a whopping NINE characters WITHOUT ECHO FIGHTERS, making up for almost 12.5% of the roster so far! If Sakurai hesitated at the 6th FE character, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually wouldn't add a 10th pokémon character at all.

Pikmin: Dangit I just want Alph to utilize Rock Pikmin that's all I ask.

Animal Crossing: While there is a bit of moveset potential for a unique AC fighter when using stuff like emotes, I don't see it happening. Isabelle's either an echo or semiclone at best. (Though I doubt the latter.)

Any other franchise I didn't mention: I pretty much agree with you.

Other Third parties: I think Rayman is a frontrunner alongside Heihachi or Lloyd, but it depends on whether we've actually seen all stages or not, alongside the music page thingy.

Other First Parties: A Rhythm heaven character is the only one that comes to mind. And although moreso a wish than a prediction, I want to see some Sin & Punishment.

My prediction ends up being:

Unique:
Highly likely: Bandana Dee, Skull Kid.
Pretty possible: Paper Mario/Captain Toad, Isaac, Rhythm Heaven character.
Possible, but not banking on it: Geno, new Pokémon character, Rayman, Heihachi/Lloyd.

Echo:
Basically a lock: Isabelle, Shadow.
Highly Likely: Impa, Dixie.
Pretty possible: Octolings.

 

[NintenRob]

I know people like to look at "now the" line as evidence for more stages, but given the context (comparing it to past games, so the now the is referring to how high it's up from those games) is more and other things such "exactly 100" and every stage in unlocked from the beginning when showing the stage select screen (meaning it's unlikely any is hidden)

I truly believe we've seen every stage

 

[Ridrool64]

Well, we do have a precedent for characters from franchises without stages. In Smash 64 we had Ness and Captain Falcon (arguably Jigglypuff too), and in Melee a stage for Fire Emblem was cut but not the characters from the stages. So I don't believe that characters from new franchises are truly debunked at all, they just might not have stages until after release. Rather than quash the possibility of new series indirectly, I think Sakurai officially just say "The remaining fighters are all from series we currently have included, so we apologize if you wanted a fighter from a series not yet included, but they will not be joining the fight as a playable character." since leaving false hope behind isn't his thing (stressing that Skull Kid is an Assist Trophy during Smash 4, the same with Waluigi and Takamaru, and most instances of false hope were created by fan speculation, like the Ridley and Ashley incidents). You do make good points though, but until they outright say that we are only getting fighters from current series characters like Rayman or Banjo & Kazooie are still plenty possible. Stageless, maybe, but possible. As for your roster from the current series analysis, I'd say you're pretty on point. Kirby has a little more to pull from, and I wouldn't count on a Pokémon newcomer this time, but you're doing pretty solid.

 

[soviet prince]

I watched the section mult times and not once did he hint at it being the final, everything he said was referring to what they shown so far.

 

[NintenRob]

I watched the section mult times and not once did he hint at it being the final, everything he said was referring to what they shown so far.

He never specifically "final count" but he said it was the total amount multiple times and not once did he indicate that it was so far. He did the opposite, specifically pointing out that we have exactly 100 stages.

I'm honestly starting to think people might be in denial about the stages. I'd like to be wrong but I thought he made it pretty clear that this is the total amount of stages in the game.

 

[TBone06]

So I've been thinking, who could be left they could add to this game? And I'm thinking characters left to speculate over is smaller than ever. This topic is going to be more about unique fighters, but I'll mention echoes as I go

I believe, we've seen every character from a new franchise already. This is because of both the stage select screen and the sound test.

I believe we've seen every stage already. They said all stages will be unlocked from the start when showing the stage select screen, and said a total of 103, even pointing out exactly 100 when not counting the Smash originals. Also we see all the series emblems in the sound test, with the other section for smaller stuff. This to me tells me we're not getting anything new that warrants it's own sound test section. And it definitely seems it's limited to franchises with playable characters, as Pilotwings and Wii Sports seems to be relegated to other. (And I don't believe Sakurai has ever purposely removed something from a menu just to keep a secret. Obviously he's fuzzyd something and used the select icon to hide Zelda in melee, but he didn't actually remove any thing)

The only exception I can see to this, is an old school retro franchise, which are the only franchises with playable characters listed in the other section. Something like R.O.B. who doesn't really need a stage, or perhaps already has a stage. We're getting a new wrecking crew remix so perhaps something from that? We've gotten a NES retro character each game since Melee so it's definitely something we should consider. The other big possibility to me is Diskun, the Famicom mascot who still shows up from time to time. He even had a trophy in Melee.

So aside from those two, I think every other character left comes from existing franchises. This narrows the potential characters down considerably. I hope for the sake of Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven fans I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. For now, I'm gonna go through each the current franchises and see who stands

Mario: King Boo, Paper Mario and Geno are really the only remaining ones at this point. King Boo sadly doesn't really have the demand and Square is being stingy still. Paper Mario has a chance, even had his stage. But personally I think Mario already has so much it won't get anything unique this time, and it did get Daisy anyway. What do you think?

DK: Just got K Rool, Dixie and Funky could work as echoes but I'm more interested in unique character in this topic. Dixie could be unique too, but with limited space I have my doubts

Zelda: All eyes are on Skull Kid. His biggest competition are either deconfirmed or echo material (Impa) and people have been begging for more Zelda characters. With his assist trophy missing, leaks to help and many many things that make you go "Could this mean..? " Skull Kid has a pretty good chance

Metroid: We got Ridley and Dark Samus

Yoshi: Aside from maybe Yarn Yoshi echo, I don't expect much from here

Kirby: Bandana Dee is one of the reasons I'm doing this, there doesn't seem much reason to exclude him except maybe priorities elsewhere. So I'm seeing what other priorities there are. Hopefully he gets his prize. He certainly has the popularity for it

StarFox: Krystal was the most popular choice. And she's been deconfirmed. And Andross shows up as an assist trophy again too

Pokemon: I'm thinking we are getting one now. Even without an Alolan stage, we have a lot of other Pokemon stages and Tortimer Island was used for a stand in when revealing Alolan Exeggcutor. Who do I think? Personally Tapu Koko. He has the prominence in the game, anime and promotion that a Pokemon tends to have. Lycanroc or a starter is another real possibility. However I have my doubts on a starter because we already have fair few of them. But that's just me, let me know what you think.

F-Zero: a few characters could work as an echo. But the eternal damnation the series is in leads me to believe we're not getting anyone new

Earthbound: Same as F-Zero, Lots of cool echoes but with the series ending long ago, it's hard to justify another character. Some people like to look at Masked Man and Porky as new villains but I have my doubts.

Fire Emblem: the only non retro franchise from Melee that already has a heck of a lot of characters and also got Chrom as an echo. Fates is also still the most recent brand new Fire Emblem game. So I highly doubt we'll see anything more from here

Wario: Ashley was the character everyone wanted from this franchise, even I have my doubts of anyone but her getting in. But unfortunately she was deconfirmed, so I doubt we're getting anything

Kid Icarus: Kid Icarus does offer a lot of unique characters. But it's most popular character not playable, Viridi has been deconfirmed. Some suggest Medusa as an echo.

Pikmin: Sadly, Pikmin suffers from lack of variety in its cast. Poor Alph couldn't even be more than Alt

Sonic: Shadow could be an Echo. But until I see it, I don't believe we're getting any unique second additions to the third parties. Plus sidekick Tails was seen on Green Hill. Although the role is really minor

Snake: See Sonic, maybe Raiden as an echo??

Animal Crossing: I consider Isabelle the most likely character as of right now. What I'm unsure if she'd be echo or unique. I'm leaning towards echo now as it'd just be easier and there isn't as much to draw from for her. It's certainly could go either way with her prominence.

Mega Man: pretty much all the popular choices are gone, even as echoes. I think I heard Roll was a clone in an MvC so maybe an echo?

Wii Fit: For obvious reasons, not happening

Punch-Out: There is just no demand for it. No one really stands out either aside from Doc Louis

Pac-Man: Maybe Ms Pac-Man but obviously nothing unique

Xenoblade: Oh dear. Elma and Rex are really popular choices but I'm starting to doubt both. Again I believe we've gotten every stage already. I believe if either of those 2 got in, they would have gotten a stage. Especially Elma since X is really nothing like the original. And Rex I'm feeling is too new regardless. This is the hardest part to predict though. As for characters from the original game, most of the popular characters are in Shulks Final Smash. I have the least amount of confidence in this but I believe that if we got one, we would've gotten a stage too.

Street Fighter: Ken echo definitely, worth noting the huge increase in Street Fighter songs

Final Fantasy: with only two songs, I doubt we're getting anything new here.

Bayonetta: While Jeanne is an obvious Echo choice, Bayonetta still has her colour based on Jeanne. So doubtful. And I can't see them doing Rosa instead.

Splatoon: Octolings could be an Echo but that's it

Castlevania: I think we already know most of what's coming from this franchise.



So looking at every franchise? What characters does that leave us?

Based on all this I believe our unique character lineup is.

Skull Kid
Tapu Koko
Bandana Dee
Diskun

I opted for Diskun because the real stars of Wrecking Crew is really just the Mario Bros, you could go foreman spike but he was essentially replaced by Wario and Waluigi. Diskun also has more history with Nintendo and generally makes more sense not to have a stage. The only other character I could see at this point is Bubbles or Much Rider. But Diskun just has more history with Nintendo.

As for echoes, I reckon Impa, Isabelle, Dixie, Shadow and Ken. Maybe more but it's hard to say how many echoes they can add.

Feel free to leave your own take on this, I'd love to see what others say. Looking at each franchise, who do you think is left they could add? Or do you believe I'm wrong about no more stages and franchises? Post your own theory on what characters are still possible.

In regards to Square, it’s hard to gauge if they are being stingy or not. Very easily it could be the composer of Final Fantasy who is the issue. There have been instances where Nobuo hasn’t allowed the music in certain games since he left the company.

I mean if you take Sakurai’s words he used when he revealed the Geno costume, he said “and thanks to our relationship with Square-Enix, we will release another Mii Fighter costume.” They easily could have nixed this, but they allowed the costume. In an interview, Sakurai also said Square pretty much let him do his thing with Cloud. Maybe the issue is Square, but no one really knows.

 

[soviet prince]

He never specifically "final count" but he said it was the total amount multiple times and not once did he indicate that it was so far. He did the opposite, specifically pointing out that we have exactly 100 stages.

I'm honestly starting to think people might be in denial about the stages. I'd like to be wrong but I thought he made it pretty clear that this is the total amount of stages in the game.

I am thinking ppl might be jumping to conclusions, total does not mean final and the 100 stage thing was just a fun fact. It may be the final count but there is no evidence that it is.

 

[Zinith]

Considering my boy has the largest stage-to-character ratio in Ultimate (4 to 1), I'm hopeful for a new rep to even things out...

 

[RileyXY1]

Considering my boy has the largest stage-to-character ratio in Ultimate (4 to 1), I'm hopeful for a new rep to even things out...

Actually, it's FE with that distinction, with 7 characters to just 3 stages.

 

[Metocles]

Let's look at this stage total in another light. Are we really only getting 4 new stages? Yeah, we have new Battlefields and Final Destination, so you could technically call it 7 (Both Big BF and BF). That just doesn't sound right. Usually the team has a lot of fun and we get tons of new stages. Old characters get more stages and also random stages that don't have characters attached to them. I mean the last time you had a new stage total that low, you have to go back to the N64 which had 9 stages in a game that had limited resources and an even more limited roster to select stages from.

Does this sound right to you? Because it doesn't to me. Even if they were much more conservative with making some new stages, I would still say there would be at least 10 giving them the benefit of the doubt with so many reworked ones they've brought back. I'm not even willing to call BF, Big BF and to some extent FD new - their concepts haven't changed and neither has their layout. So that would be 6 more stages in the same vein as the 4 we've seen thus far.

As far as music goes, is Sakurai going to make it that easy for people? When all it would take to change something like track listings on your copy of the game is an update, do you think they can't do something with the original code and program that put it all together right in front of them? I suppose all of this is possible, but I'll believe it when I see it I guess.

 

[RileyXY1]

Let's look at this stage total in another light. Are we really only getting 4 new stages? Yeah, we have new Battlefields and Final Destination, so you could technically call it 7 (Both Big BF and BF). That just doesn't sound right. Usually the team has a lot of fun and we get tons of new stages. Old characters get more stages and also random stages that don't have characters attached to them. I mean the last time you had a new stage total that low, you have to go back to the N64 which had 9 stages in a game that had limited resources and an even more limited roster to select stages from.

Does this sound right to you? Because it doesn't to me. Even if they were much more conservative with making some new stages, I would still say there would be at least 10 giving them the benefit of the doubt with so many reworked ones they've brought back. I'm not even willing to call BF, Big BF and to some extent FD new - their concepts haven't changed and neither has their layout. So that would be 6 more stages in the same vein as the 4 we've seen thus far.

As far as music goes, is Sakurai going to make it that easy for people? When all it would take to change something like track listings on your copy of the game is an update, do you think they can't do something with the original code and program that put it all together right in front of them? I suppose all of this is possible, but I'll believe it when I see it I guess.

Yeah. I don't think that this is all that we're getting stage-wise.

 

[Ridrool64]

You could make the argument that most of the time going into those potential new stages, though, was used remastering stages not from SSB4 Wii U. No matter what any character is possible until directly said otherwise [since homeless characters have happened], however the stage list being final is something I am prepared for. I mean, presumably most people who say that this isn't it have most wanteds from new series (I'm guilty of this), but from an objective standpoint it could go either way. Besides, if the Spirits mode is a Story Mode, then that is what ate up most of the development time. Meaning that remastering every stage would take priority over making new ones.

 

[PsySmasher]

Considering the fact that we have more newcomers to be revealed, I doubt that none of them will have any new stage associated with them. Especially if one of those characters is a from a game not represented in Smash yet.

 

[Zinith]

Actually, it's FE with that distinction, with 7 characters to just 3 stages.

No, that's the other way around.

 

[Metocles]

You could make the argument that most of the time going into those potential new stages, though, was used remastering stages not from SSB4 Wii U. No matter what any character is possible until directly said otherwise [since homeless characters have happened], however the stage list being final is something I am prepared for. I mean, presumably most people who say that this isn't it have most wanteds from new series (I'm guilty of this), but from an objective standpoint it could go either way. Besides, if the Spirits mode is a Story Mode, then that is what ate up most of the development time. Meaning that remastering every stage would take priority over making new ones.

Sure, I'll clearly call out my own bias as well. Something else to note though - this is not the Brawl development team and cycle. The smash team has ballooned greatly from those times. The team now is comprised of the combined teams that worked on both the Wii U and the 3DS games for Sm4sh and Bandai-Namco. A Subspace Emissary in Brawl that drew well over half the resources is now not going to be as task intensive. Not to mention, I don't think we're getting SSE. Maybe something similar like a campaign in the Spirits, but something between Melee and Brawl for that kind of mode.

We have devs that made two completely separate games and an entire other game studio dedicated to making a single game this time. I think adding 10 stages isn't going to take up a whole lot of development time.

 

[RileyXY1]

No, that's the other way around.

With Yoshi, it's a difference of 3. With Fire Emblem, it's a difference of 4.

 

[Zinith]

With Yoshi, it's a difference of 3. With Fire Emblem, it's a difference of 4.

With Yoshi it's 4 (stage-to-character) or .25 (character-to-stage). With Fire Emblem it's 2.33 or .43.

Trust me on this, I did the work over on the Smash Ultimate Thread...

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Sakurai really should have waited before showing us the stage total. Because the stages shown are really disappointing. At least he did say there's more newcomer characters to reveal. But showing us exactly what stages are in the game and having fan favorite stages missing and only four new stages to offer? Man, that's such a bad spoiler.

 

[Zinith]

I made this over on the Smash Ultimate Thread, but I think it's more appropriate here. This is basically a stage-to-character ratio list for each installment. Note that I'm separating the 3DS and Wii U versions of Smash 4 and I'm making separate ones each for "pre-DLC" and "post-DLC" (that's FOUR Smash 4 lists. Yikes!!!). Once again, no Mii Fighters and Final Destination, Battlefield and Big Battlefield. Anyways...

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros.

[12 Fighters, 9 Stages]

1
0.5
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Melee

[26 Fighters, 27 Stages]

3
2
1
0.8
0.5
0.4
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[39 Fighters, 39 Stages]
Animal Crossing, Nintendo DS and Electroplankton each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1
0.67
0.6
0.5
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS pre-DLC

[48 Fighters, 32 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs and Find Mii each have 1 stage but no fighters

1
0.71
0.5
0.4
0.33
0.25
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS post-DLC

[55 Fighters, 40 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs and Find Mii each have 1 stage but no fighters

1
0.67
0.6
0.5
0.33
0.17
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U pre-DLC

[48 Fighters, 43 Stages]
Piotwings, Wii Sports and Wrecking Crew each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1
0.86
0.66
0.6
0.5
0.4
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U post-DLC

[55 Fighters, 52 Stages]
Pilotwings, Wii Sports, Wrecking Crew and Miiverse each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1.14
1
0.66
0.5
0.33
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[70 Fighters, 100 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Electroplankton, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs, Find Mii, Pilotwings, Wii Sports and Wrecking Crew each have 1 stage but no fighters

4
3
2.25
2
1.5
1.33
1
0.78
0.5
0.43
0

You may notice that my boi tops all of those lists. *sigh*

 

[soviet prince]

as far as stages it just seems silly to stop at only 18 left

 

[Admiral Pit]

Regarding the Kid Icarus line, I can say Phosphora has a chance as she was not shown as an Assist Trophy (or is suddenly missing as an AT), I think. As for uniqueness, I did think about her being the one officially faster than Sonic with all the electricity she has, but has this Battery Gauge/Meter that determines the effectiveness and efficiency of her abilities, where lower levels of the meter will weaken most of her electric moves (or reduce their range) and even slow her down a bit. She's definitely my number one want now.

As for Medusa, she might have a chance as an echo with plenty of changes and unique moves of her own, for we now know Echoes can be much more diverse than clones can ever be as shown with Chrom... kinda. I would expect her to have snakes, dark magic, and even a nail swipe attack and such to help replace Palu's powers (minus the Warp which she kinda had in her boss battle in Uprising)... Plus her being the primary and original antagonist may net her some potential points of being playable... where K.Rool is the example.

Now for third parties, something about that Rathalos and MH stage (or boss area) has me curious wondering if we'll have a Monster Hunter as a character, kinda like what MvC did, but different. I certainly would like that.

 

[NintenRob]

Outside of maybe a Medusa echo (which I consider unlikely) I really don't think Kid Icarus is getting any more, if it did get anyone, it would probably be Viridi. Who has been deconfirmed

 

[NintenRob]

Sorry for the double post but I feel this is justified.


Sakurai recently did another article where he is once more very specific on there being 100 stages
https://sourcegaming.info/2018/08/2...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

 

[soviet prince]

that is one point toward final, but not 100 percent confirmation so it's to soon to say it's all there is.

saying that if this is the final stages I wonder why stop when only 18 left and only 3-4 new stages is way to little for a new title. I appreciate the amount of stages but new stages is just as imp to have as newcomers imo