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A Quick Guide to Sheik's Basic D-throws Combos (under construction)

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Formerly the "How do I d-throw combo Marth?" thread. I'm cleaning this up because I'd like to make this board look a bit neater, beginning with this thread. This is for NTSC versions of the game, as the PAL version of the game has modified Sheik's d-throw to be less powerful (although it is still a very useful tool and a critical component of her game).

Sheik D-Throw Combos: A Primer

NTSC Sheik's d-throw is one of the, if not the, best throws in the game. For those unaware of how good it is, Sheik's d-throw is her sole reliable combo throw onstage but it allows her to be capable of chain grabbing a number of characters to lethal or near-lethal percents, sets up tech chase follow ups on the fast fallers, and allows Sheik to hit consistent & reliable combos vs most characters in the game.

This guide is designed to give you an idea on what you can do with Sheik's incredible d-throw. To allow players who may be unsure of how to use this throw a way to learn how to increase their damage output beyond the simple [d-throw]-->[f-tilt]-->[fair] combos and develop more complex strings that allow for customization, expression, and damage output.

Table of contents:
1.00 -- Melee Comboing 101: The Basics
1.01 -- Directional Influence
1.02 -- Clock DI
1.03 -- Sheik's Basic 2-Step Throw Combos
2.00 -- Advanced Throw Combo Analysis

1.00 -- Melee Comboing 101: The Basics

If you have never played Sheik before, this is the section you should be looking at. This is the beginner's stuff. If you are already at a fairly high level with Sheik, or confident you know her basic combo game and Melee terminology, then you can probably skip this section (but do come back if something is unclear). We are going to start by going over the important terminology that we're going to be using in this guide, and what it means. Following this, we are going to gloss over the d-throw's simple follow ups. I will also cover how to perform them, especially if there's a trick to them.

By the end of this section, you should understand:

1) Directional Influence, or DI
2) Clock DI
3) Sheik's Basic Two-Step D-throw Combos

Let's begin, shall we?

1.01 -- 1) Directional Influence

In SSBM, when you're discussing a combo tree, it is essential to understand DI. To recap, Directional Influence (or more colloquially "DI") is the ability to manipulate your hit trajectory after being struck by an attack or thrown. If this concept seems at all unfamiliar to you, or up to now you legitimately did not know what DI is or that it was in this game, I suggest you look at this video. For those who do know what DI is, we're going to continue and look at the clock.

1.02 -- 2) Clock DI



You're probably wondering, "Why the hell is there a clock there?"

Well, for the purpose of this guide (and any future guides by me) we're going to be using times on an analog clock as reference points for where the players are inputting for DI. We are also going to be assuming Sheik is always facing to the right -- this means if you are facing left then the numbers will be mirrored.

Sheik's d-throw allows opponents to DI to either side of her body, depending on what their input is. Since our Sheik is always facing right, DIing completely horizontally away from Sheik will mean that the opponent's stick was held at the 3 o'clock position (to be referred to as "3 o'clock DI"), since his analog stick would be held horizontally away from Sheik. If the opponent tried to DI to get as far behind her as possible after being d-thrown, they would be inputting for 9 o'clock DI.

Further visual examples:

6 o'clock DI


3 o'clock DI


12 o'clock DI


9 o'clock DI


If any of that is unclear, please reread it because that is the terminology that I will be using for this guide. If it is still unclear, please leave a message in the thread.

So, now that we know the language we'll be using for the defender's actions, we can get onto the good stuff. The actual combos!!

1.03 -- 3) Sheik's Basic 2-Step Combos

Sheik has about five basic throw combos that you want to know how to do on most characters. Because of the nature of SSBM's combo system, combos vary a lot after these five. The main ones to know are:

(A) [D-throw]-->[F-tilt]
(B) [D-throw]-->[Dash attack]
(C) [D-throw]-->[Grab]
(D) [D-throw]-->[U-tilt]
(E) [D-throw]-->[Fair]

Infamous for being superficially simplistic, the five options outlined above provide an adequate and relatively easy way of managing most combo situations with her. What we're emphasizing here is simplicity -- there is admittedly much more you can do with her d-throw combos but those five create the cohesive framework for comboing the bulk of characters.

Works on:
:kirbymelee::pichumelee::bowsermelee::nessmelee::gawmelee::roymelee::mewtwomelee::zeldamelee:
:younglinkmelee::linkmelee::dkmelee::ganondorfmelee::yoshimelee::mariomelee::samusmelee::pikachumelee:
:luigimelee::drmario::icsmelee::peachmelee::jigglypuffmelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee:

Doesn't work so well on:
:falconmelee::falcomelee::foxmelee:

regrab the DI away until 30, dash attack after

f-tilt fair the slight DI away and see if you can combo either another f-tilt or regrab at super low percents; after about 20 just uair or u-smash

u-tilt everything else from 0-20. delay the up tilt for the later half of that. then switch to up airs.

dthrow tipper usmash at like 65-110 when they don't DI/DI behind



on platforms either dair, uair, or waveland regrab for damage racking. uair knocks over around 20ish on ASDI down. dair is much higher. use this to plan your follows at low percents.

to kill, uair or fair. don't uair when it won't kill. marth is easy to edgeguard.



STOP ASKING HOW TO COMBO MARTH I'VE POSTED THIS PROBABLY 15+ TIMES

generally you want to combo with up air if you can because marth is vulnerable BELOW HIM so hitting him upwards makes it easier to attack BELOW HIM

however, there are other moves that hit him mostly upwards so USE THEM WHEN THEY ARE APPROPRIATE (and by that I mean the best move)




:)
 
Last edited:

GaGa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
220
Location
Raleigh, NC.
This was extremely helpful but I feel like an ******* for asking about it instead of researching it.



:(

:phone:
 

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
... I've followed DI in up with fair many times. Maybe not against marth though (i've hardly played the match-up from the sheik end) so I can't say if it works against him.
 

gm jack

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
1,850
Location
Reading/Cambridge, UK
Not until higher percents.

However, on the other side, there are no spike shenanigans to deal with, and we still edge guard him just as well.

The match up might be slightly more even, but it's still Sheik's favour. Dthrow was just one thing which sheik does really well to Marth.
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
6,697
Location
England
Grabs are still really good for racking up damage against Marth in PAL. I would say that losing a guaranteed grab -> stock at higher percents is more significant.
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
6,697
Location
England
Losing such an easy way to rack-up damage and kill is... troublesome.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Now its stickied?!?

Aight I'm never having mercy on a Sheik in tournament again. Accidentally pause? DQ. Didn't start as Sheik at the beginning of the match? Thats a free stock. Someone spills some soda all over you midmatch? I hope you can DI with a sticky controller.
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
6,697
Location
England
Yes, but it's really easy so you should rarely mess it up if at all.

:king:
 

silentSWAG

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,031
Location
South Park
what do you think about recovering kk? when i am in that critical situation when im trying to get back on and marth is on the ledge so i up-b onto stage waiting for a punish ( most likely the get up f-smash back off). and when i am close enough and i suspect him to grab the ledge i either, double jump air dodge, or double jump needle then go for the ledge, or double jump up-b on stage to platform or anywhere that he may not be able to reach me, or anything i dont know.



EDIT: i dont think i explained this well enough but let me know if i should recover differently
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
what do you think about recovering kk? when i am in that critical situation when im trying to get back on and marth is on the ledge so i up-b onto stage waiting for a punish ( most likely the get up f-smash back off). and when i am close enough and i suspect him to grab the ledge i either, double jump air dodge, or double jump needle then go for the ledge, or double jump up-b on stage to platform or anywhere that he may not be able to reach me, or anything i dont know.



EDIT: i dont think i explained this well enough but let me know if i should recover differently
Recovering on Marth. Oh man. There's so many little tricks and nuances to recovering versus Marth. If you want to know about those, ask me on AIM. I'm just gonna run through the bare basics.

Okay, first of all you should know how to DI his f-smash because this is where most people run into problems initially. DI mostly "up" rather than "in" on it. That's a good start. You want to get as much height as possible so you have more options when you're coming down. If you wanna be ballsy you can try to ground tech it, but I don't recommend it at all.

Second major rule is to never, under any circumstances, recover onto the side platforms of Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium, and (assuming they're good) Battlefield. Just don't. Dreamland and Fountain (height dependent) can be acceptable but on the three "don'ts", you're asking to be tippered by doing that. Which blows, and you will be unhappy.

In general if you DI his KO moves well enough (up more than in!) then you should be able to recover high and reach the stage with just your double jump (unless he's very preemptive or just has the most perfect wavelanding ever and hits a tipped f-smash or something at 65%+). From there you just need to respond to his edgeguard appropriately. Air-dodges, fast falls (to screw with his timing), Up+Bs to go for top platforms (Marth's aerials are weak!), wavelands, and even attacking (bair, fair) can all be effective choices. You can even make it look like you're going for the stage and then abort mission and take the edge if he tries to call you going onstage.

Oh, and clearly DI his dair away (or down, if you're below a certain percent that I don't remember). You don't want to be dair > dair KOed or hit by similar tomfoolery.

I used to really like double jump > needles, but I don't anymore. It's only use IMO is that it's a way to get people holding the ledge off the edge without being close to them (and even then you can often get away with not throwing the needles [for extra mindgames, do the charge and then cancel it] just because they'll stand to beat the needles and then you can sometimes steal the edge).

Your list of recovery options is otherwise decent. I would add that FF > waveland, air-dodging onto a platform, and DJ fairing are all decent options offstage. DJ fair is sometimes really good to prevent Marth from grabbing the edge, which is very useful. It's risky, though, because you can be baited and punished for it, but preventing him from forcing you onstage can be very useful so don't overlook it as an option.
 
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