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A new quest beckons: Monster Hunter for Smash!

zumaddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
777
MH Rise Demo is so fun, and it has gotten me to try other weapons I ignored in past titles due to mobility options. Hammer and HH in particular are weapons I avoided like the plague in the past, but am having a riot with now.

Only problem is now I REALLY REALLY want MH in Smash despite rumours saying otherwise. I just think they fit so well, and c'mon the demo tanked the Nintendo eshop!
 
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Bobthealligator

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
600
Can I talk about this Imran Khan thing because I keep seeing it everywhere and it doesn't make sense if you think about it for more than a second.
1) How exactly did Nintendo find themselves in a position where negotiations fell through after development had started on a character. That is way too late in development for this to not be locked in and if this had happened then I imagine someone would have been fired.
2) Byleth was released ahead of schedule, if this had happened late enough in development that they had to repurpose some of the stuff that was already done, then Byleth would need to be delayed, yet he was released ahead of the March 31st deadline.
3) Byleth and Monster Hunter really don't have that much in common. Having Monster Hunter use multiple weapons in their moveset goes against Sakurai's design ethos and the Hunter has no attacks similar to Jab, Dtilt, Up Smash, Uair, Fair, Bair, Nair or Up Special, so what exactly did Byleth take from the Hunter?
Finally Byleth is a zoner, it really wouldn't make any sense to have the Hunter be a zoner based on Monster Hunter's gameplay.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,318
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Can I talk about this Imran Khan thing because I keep seeing it everywhere and it doesn't make sense if you think about it for more than a second.
1) How exactly did Nintendo find themselves in a position where negotiations fell through after development had started on a character. That is way too late in development for this to not be locked in and if this had happened then I imagine someone would have been fired.
2) Byleth was released ahead of schedule, if this had happened late enough in development that they had to repurpose some of the stuff that was already done, then Byleth would need to be delayed, yet he was released ahead of the March 31st deadline.
3) Byleth and Monster Hunter really don't have that much in common. Having Monster Hunter use multiple weapons in their moveset goes against Sakurai's design ethos and the Hunter has no attacks similar to Jab, Dtilt, Up Smash, Uair, Fair, Bair, Nair or Up Special, so what exactly did Byleth take from the Hunter?
Finally Byleth is a zoner, it really wouldn't make any sense to have the Hunter be a zoner based on Monster Hunter's gameplay.
That, and Imran literally starts off the post by admitting his info could be wrong and float-out says "Don't trust me." Not even the guy who's "leaking" it is sure of it.
 

Bobthealligator

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
600
That, and Imran literally starts off the post by admitting his info could be wrong and float-out says "Don't trust me." Not even the guy who's "leaking" it is sure of it.
It's what I hate about this fanbase sometimes. People will latch onto the flimsiest argument and just post it everywhere, without considering the many many flaws, because they think if they argue enough then the character they do/don't want will/won't get in because of it. Monster Hunter gets attacked on two fronts by these, with the Imran thing and the the 'Monster Hunter devs don't like the Hunter in other games' rubbish.
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
2,369
What I love about the "devs don't want the hunter in crossover games" thing is that people are saying that it's because Infinite failed and that's why the devs supposedly refused to let MH in Smash. Like what?? What does Monster Hunter have to do with the quality of the game itself? This just seems like a ******* argument designed by people who don't want Monster Hunter in the game.

Anyways, I have been loving the demo. I also heard about the demo crashing the eshop? That is simultaneously funny and great to hear. As for the demo itself, it's great. The gameplay feels so good and I love the quality of life improvements. Yes I know Monster Hunter World had them but I actually did not play too much of World because I don't have PS Plus and I refuse to pay for online for just one game. But anywho the additions they made are nice and some of the changes too. I noticed they significantly streamlined hunting horn too. It's easy to pick up and play and it's still very useful. I will add it to my primary list of weapons which include great sword, dual blades, lance, gunlance, sword and shield, and insect glaive.

Speaking of, a question for everyone. What are your favorite weapon(s) and why? If I had to pick one, I would say gunlance due to the combination of offense and defense plus a little more mobility than lance. The follow ups are insect glaive, lance, and great sword.

Alongside the aforementioned weapons, I also dabble in long sword and hammer occasionally.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,318
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
What I love about the "devs don't want the hunter in crossover games" thing is that people are saying that it's because Infinite failed and that's why the devs supposedly refused to let MH in Smash. Like what?? What does Monster Hunter have to do with the quality of the game itself? This just seems like a ******* argument designed by people who don't want Monster Hunter in the game.

Anyways, I have been loving the demo. I also heard about the demo crashing the eshop? That is simultaneously funny and great to hear. As for the demo itself, it's great. The gameplay feels so good and I love the quality of life improvements. Yes I know Monster Hunter World had them but I actually did not play too much of World because I don't have PS Plus and I refuse to pay for online for just one game. But anywho the additions they made are nice and some of the changes too. I noticed they significantly streamlined hunting horn too. It's easy to pick up and play and it's still very useful. I will add it to my primary list of weapons which include great sword, dual blades, lance, gunlance, sword and shield, and insect glaive.

Speaking of, a question for everyone. What are your favorite weapon(s) and why? If I had to pick one, I would say gunlance due to the combination of offense and defense plus a little more mobility than lance. The follow ups are insect glaive, lance, and great sword.

Alongside the aforementioned weapons, I also dabble in long sword and hammer occasionally.
I hadn't had any experience with Monster Hunter beyond the Great Maccao in the MHGU demo. Rise feels more fluid and clicks better for me, though I'm still learning the ropes. I got through the first mission just fine, but when I tried Mizutsune I got the triple cart. I went with the Long Sword first because of the Japanese theming; Maybe I'll try again with a different weapon.
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
2,369
I hadn't had any experience with Monster Hunter beyond the Great Maccao in the MHGU demo. Rise feels more fluid and clicks better for me, though I'm still learning the ropes. I got through the first mission just fine, but when I tried Mizutsune I got the triple cart. I went with the Long Sword first because of the Japanese theming; Maybe I'll try again with a different weapon.
Yeah that's normal for a newcomer. Just keep practicing and learning and you will improve. I've put about 200 hours into Generations between the 3DS and Switch versions and when I tried to beat Mizu with my trusty insect glaive, I got the triple cart. That is because I have to get used to this game's insect glaive and I was still getting used to the feel of the game. That wasn't meant to intimidate you or anything, I'm just saying that yeah the games are difficult and you have to be careful with your movements.

When I played Monster Hunter for the first time (meaning the full version) I could not beat the Great Maccao at all and had to get my expert MH friend to help teach me the game.
 

meleebrawler

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What I love about the "devs don't want the hunter in crossover games" thing is that people are saying that it's because Infinite failed and that's why the devs supposedly refused to let MH in Smash. Like what?? What does Monster Hunter have to do with the quality of the game itself? This just seems like a ******* argument designed by people who don't want Monster Hunter in the game.

Anyways, I have been loving the demo. I also heard about the demo crashing the eshop? That is simultaneously funny and great to hear. As for the demo itself, it's great. The gameplay feels so good and I love the quality of life improvements. Yes I know Monster Hunter World had them but I actually did not play too much of World because I don't have PS Plus and I refuse to pay for online for just one game. But anywho the additions they made are nice and some of the changes too. I noticed they significantly streamlined hunting horn too. It's easy to pick up and play and it's still very useful. I will add it to my primary list of weapons which include great sword, dual blades, lance, gunlance, sword and shield, and insect glaive.

Speaking of, a question for everyone. What are your favorite weapon(s) and why? If I had to pick one, I would say gunlance due to the combination of offense and defense plus a little more mobility than lance. The follow ups are insect glaive, lance, and great sword.

Alongside the aforementioned weapons, I also dabble in long sword and hammer occasionally.
I don't really main a weapon, I've always been a believer in having multiple types that best suit the monster I'm trying to fight, or the types of materials I'm trying to get. And of course it keeps things varied. But in the old games I had to split two files thanks to gunner gear being it's own beast. Hopefully this game follows the World trend of just toggling between blademaster and gunner versions. I certainly had more fun light bowgunning in this demo than I have ever had in any previous game.


As a somewhat dedicated partbreaker I will admit to being partial to gunlance as well (I don't get why everyone overlooks the utility of attacking spots no one else wants to attack in multiplayer), but I'm surprised you consider it more mobile than regular lance, the latter's shield dash and chained evades makes it's positioning far more flexible. Ah, I still remember the awesome lance build I made with the Glacial Agnaktor armor in 3 Ultimate. Even got complimented for it. Good times.
I hadn't had any experience with Monster Hunter beyond the Great Maccao in the MHGU demo. Rise feels more fluid and clicks better for me, though I'm still learning the ropes. I got through the first mission just fine, but when I tried Mizutsune I got the triple cart. I went with the Long Sword first because of the Japanese theming; Maybe I'll try again with a different weapon.
Before you go and fight Mizutsune, try seeking out those little songbirds that boost your stats, particularly the red and orange ones for attack and defence. You can filter your map to show them and other useful critters that you can carry, like a pink rabbit called Brewhare far to the north that will boost your healing items for a time.
 

Mr. MR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
115
Speaking of, a question for everyone. What are your favorite weapon(s) and why? If I had to pick one, I would say gunlance due to the combination of offense and defense plus a little more mobility than lance. The follow ups are insect glaive, lance, and great sword.

Alongside the aforementioned weapons, I also dabble in long sword and hammer occasionally.
World was my first time I actually got hooked to a Monster Hunter game so I'm late to the party. I mainly used the Long Sword and the Hammer with a side of Dual Blades and Charge Blade. In World I used keyboard and mouse so going from that to controller has been a learning curve. All my muscle memory is gone, so right now I'm planning on maining Hammer in Rise and siding Long Sword. Going from keyboard to controller also makes relearning the Charge Blade right now difficult. Also I mostly used Savage Axe with the CB and since it currently isn't in Rise (it might be a possible Hunter Art/Silkbind Attack) I don't have the incentive to relearn it right now.

I'm interested in the Hunting Horn this time around as well as the Gunlance.
 
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PK-remling Fire

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
751
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The Warp
switch axe main here, I haven't had a lot of time on the demo, but so far it's been a blast. Might get back into hammer judging by some of the insane aerial moves I've seen. In world I dabbled in gunlance so I'll have to give that a try as well.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
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Pangaea, 250 MYA
Alright, here's the gameplan:
  • I'm trying out the Bow now, since I had fun with a long-range weapon in the MHGU demo (Even if I wasn't really sure what I was doing). It's a bit awkward since it feels like I don't know where I'm aiming; I think MHGU had that feature but it might just be Mandela Effect
  • Hammer and Gunlance seem pretty flashy; Think I'll try those next.
  • Apparently the reworked Hunting Horn is pretty cool? Might give it a whirl
 

Bobthealligator

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
600
What I love about the "devs don't want the hunter in crossover games" thing is that people are saying that it's because Infinite failed and that's why the devs supposedly refused to let MH in Smash. Like what?? What does Monster Hunter have to do with the quality of the game itself? This just seems like a ******* argument designed by people who don't want Monster Hunter in the game.

Anyways, I have been loving the demo. I also heard about the demo crashing the eshop? That is simultaneously funny and great to hear. As for the demo itself, it's great. The gameplay feels so good and I love the quality of life improvements. Yes I know Monster Hunter World had them but I actually did not play too much of World because I don't have PS Plus and I refuse to pay for online for just one game. But anywho the additions they made are nice and some of the changes too. I noticed they significantly streamlined hunting horn too. It's easy to pick up and play and it's still very useful. I will add it to my primary list of weapons which include great sword, dual blades, lance, gunlance, sword and shield, and insect glaive.

Speaking of, a question for everyone. What are your favorite weapon(s) and why? If I had to pick one, I would say gunlance due to the combination of offense and defense plus a little more mobility than lance. The follow ups are insect glaive, lance, and great sword.

Alongside the aforementioned weapons, I also dabble in long sword and hammer occasionally.
It's kind of the Insect Glaive, unfortunately upgrading the Kinsect and making better glaives in the mid game are tricky so a lot.of bosses just turn into damage sponges.
I might go with the Longsword in Rise though, it feels so smooth in the demo
 

zumaddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
777
I for one am really glad the scoutflies are gone, I much prefer seeing an approximation of where all the monsters are on the map and exploring yourself, rather than 'directly follow the puke green fireflies for 2 minutes".
 

PK-remling Fire

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Sep 22, 2018
Messages
751
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Is the map pointer going to be in the final game or is it just something for the demo? While I hate managing paintballs, it feels a bit odd having a lock on the monster for the whole quest.
 

Arctiq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
314
Is the map pointer going to be in the final game or is it just something for the demo? While I hate managing paintballs, it feels a bit odd having a lock on the monster for the whole quest.
I think that's just how the map is, cause you have your owl buddy scouting for you now. I'm so glad that paintballs are gone, personally.
 

Mr. MR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
115
Scoutflies made sense in World because MHW’s maps were very complex and filled to the brim. Pathing to get to some gathering points could even be tricky. I haven’t played many MH games but I do miss the dynamic and cluttered maps of World.
 

meleebrawler

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Is the map pointer going to be in the final game or is it just something for the demo? While I hate managing paintballs, it feels a bit odd having a lock on the monster for the whole quest.
Probably not the arrow, but at least the map icons. We'll probably have to get used to there almost always being large monsters in the vicinity to gatecrash, even in low rank. On the other hand it leads to funny moments like where Mizutsune is very insistent on punching Izuchi in the face, even when busy fighting hunters and the latter is just passing by, skirting the edge.
Scoutflies made sense in World because MHW’s maps were very complex and filled to the brim. Pathing to get to some gathering points could even be tricky. I haven’t played many MH games but I do miss the dynamic and cluttered maps of World.
This map is definitely structured like the old ones, but with the benefit of verticality and not needing load screens.
 
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merchantofsalt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
117
According to Capcom, Rise has been in development for 3+ years. In that case, it makes sense that Nintendo held back from adding the Hunter to the base game. The Rise Hunter makes use of wirebugs and other new additions, which would obviously have to be revealed alongside MH Rise itself for maximum marketing synergy. So I do think it's very likely that the Hunter will be the next DLC fighter revealed.

If it's not, though, then I'm pretty sure it won't happen at all. It's very much now or never.

I know the director has said that he prefers the monsters themselves to appear in crossovers, not the Hunter, but these decisions aren't made by game directors; they're made by marketing departments and execs capable of reaching agreements with third parties.

Personally, despite being a huge MH fan and enjoying the Rise demo just fine, I'm not too excited about the Hunter being added to Smash. I don't really like "faceless avatar" fighters very much. I also feel like it'd be a character who relies too much on gimmicks (such as upkeep costs), but we'll see what they do.
 
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Bobthealligator

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
600
According to Capcom, Rise has been in development for 3+ years. In that case, it makes sense that Nintendo held back from adding the Hunter to the base game. The Rise Hunter makes use of wirebugs and other new additions, which would obviously have to be revealed alongside MH Rise itself for maximum marketing synergy. So I do think it's very likely that the Hunter will be the next DLC fighter revealed.

If it's not, though, then I'm pretty sure it won't happen at all. It's very much now or never.

I know the director has said that he prefers the monsters themselves to appear in crossovers, not the Hunter, but these decisions aren't made by game directors; they're made by marketing departments and execs capable of reaching agreements with third parties.

Personally, despite being a huge MH fan and enjoying the Rise demo just fine, I'm not too excited about the Hunter being added to Smash. I don't really like "faceless avatar" fighters very much. I also feel like it'd be a character who relies too much on gimmicks (such as upkeep costs), but we'll see what they do.
I know I say this at the risk of sounding like everyone's favourite former board member and certified nutter: he who should not be named but: 'The stars are aligning'.
I would prefer Phoenix but the Hunter is a really close second so I'll take it.
 

meleebrawler

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The use Rathalos's 3rd/4th gen model and the Ancestral Steppe makes the notion of absolutely needing to maximize marketing questionable. The games in general also have long lives of support anyway.
 

merchantofsalt

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Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
117
You have to remember those were revealed before Rise was even hinted at being a thing. At the time, the only Nintendo MH game on the horizon was GU, which uses the pre-World models and environs.

It wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to have spoiled details of Rise's gameplay, like wirebugs and hunter designs, long before Rise itself was unveiled. But it makes a lot of sense right now.
 

meleebrawler

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You have to remember those were revealed before Rise was even hinted at being a thing. At the time, the only Nintendo MH game on the horizon was GU, which uses the pre-World models and environs.

It wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to have spoiled details of Rise's gameplay, like wirebugs and hunter designs, long before Rise itself was unveiled. But it makes a lot of sense right now.
You may be right those choices were made for Nintendo platform nostalgia, but it still doesn't change the fact that there was nothing stopping them from using World assets and features if they really wanted to and marketing was a prime factor. We have Joker and are still no closer to getting any main Persona game on a Nintendo platform.
 

PK-remling Fire

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It'd be a crazy theory, but since iirc the Smash team works on movesets first when they decide on a character, it would make sense for Nintendo to have a rough moveset for Monster Hunter planned when the base game came out. Capcom could've then decided to hold off on revealing Hunter until Rise, which prompted the Smash team to make them a different moveset based around Rise and use what they had originally as parts of Byleth's moveset.

Though that might just be wishful thinking on my part.
 

SharkLord

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It'd be a crazy theory, but since iirc the Smash team works on movesets first when they decide on a character, it would make sense for Nintendo to have a rough moveset for Monster Hunter planned when the base game came out. Capcom could've then decided to hold off on revealing Hunter until Rise, which prompted the Smash team to make them a different moveset based around Rise and use what they had originally as parts of Byleth's moveset.

Though that might just be wishful thinking on my part.
It's funny, because the Wirebug retroactively makes the Hunter closer to Byleth than they were before.

Though, I could see the Greatsword concept reworked into Amyr as a heavy shield-popper.
 
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merchantofsalt

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Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
117
You may be right those choices were made for Nintendo platform nostalgia, but it still doesn't change the fact that there was nothing stopping them from using World assets and features if they really wanted to and marketing was a prime factor. We have Joker and are still no closer to getting any main Persona game on a Nintendo platform.
In the end, Joker's inclusion worked as promotion for the upcoming Persona 5 Strikers, which IIRC was first teased at around the same time as Joker's announcement. Obviously the game's international release ended up being delayed because of COVID, but it has been out in Japan for a while.

With that said, I think we all know by now that DLC characters don't always match up with new or upcoming Switch games (see: Sephiroth), but in this particular case, and taking into account how immensely popular MonHun is, I think there's a good chance of it happening.
 

PK-remling Fire

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While the clutch claw seems like it'd be more of a traditional tether, the wirebug could act more like a tether that doesn't actually need an edge to work, either vaulting the hunter in the direction of the bug or letting them swing in midair.

I could also see the wirebug being used as a ground mobility tool, throwing it to the side and having the hunter be slinged along the ground toward it. Regardless, if something like the wirebug was implemented it probably wouldn't work like a normal tether.

That being said, Byleth's u-tilts and u-smash resemble one of the SnS silkbind moves where the hunter swings around their sword on a wire, though that might be coincidental.
 
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Bobthealligator

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Messages
600
I know I say this at the risk of sounding like everyone's favourite former board member and certified nutter: he who should not be named but: 'The stars are aligning'.
I would prefer Phoenix but the Hunter is a really close second so I'll take it.
Reading this through, it didn't reallh come out the way I intended. I don't think Monster Hunter is a lock. I'm really not sure about any Capcom character after the Capcom leak as with it we do have a reasonable metric for the likelihood of 3rd Parties. I.e. we're more likely to have a 3rd Party character from a company of whose internal data we haven't seen 1 TB with no mention of Smash Bros whatsoever. I was merely commenting on how there is a lot going for Monster Hunter at the moment.
Also as an aside, Imran Khan's Byleth leak is clearly ********.
 

meleebrawler

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While the clutch claw seems like it'd be more of a traditional tether, the wirebug could act more like a tether that doesn't actually need an edge to work, either vaulting the hunter in the direction of the bug or letting them swing in midair.

I could also see the wirebug being used as a ground mobility tool, throwing it to the side and having the hunter be slinged along the ground toward it. Regardless, if something like the wirebug was implemented it probably wouldn't work like a normal tether.

That being said, Byleth's u-tilts and u-smash resemble one of the SnS silkbind moves where the hunter swings around their sword on a wire, though that might be coincidental.
Not that complicated; it can just work like every other aimable up special like Fire Fox/Bird/Wolf. Including shooting forward on the ground.
 

merchantofsalt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
117
Okay, so here's a tentative moveset for the (Rise) Hunter and an idea for their stage:

Monster Hunter

Alts:

Rise Standard Set (Male)
Rise Standard Set (Female)
Classic Hunter Set (Male)
Classic Hunter Set (Female)
Rathalos Set (Male)
Lagombi Set (Female)
Goss Harag Set (Male)
Somnacanth Set (Female)

Special Mechanic: Weapon Draw: The Hunter can use Neutral Special to draw or put away their weapon, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter's movement speed is significantly better, but they cannot use Smash attacks, and their Neutrals and Aerials become quite weak: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a hunting knife. While the weapon is drawn, the Hunter can only walk (not run), and cannot jump regularly; only with the use of their Up Special. However, their attacks are much stronger and have excellent range. Some of their Smash weapon attacks also have super armor.

Special Mechanic: Wirebugs: The Hunter has two wirebugs, which are represented by glowing light blue icons above their character icon. Certain moves use up one wirebug when activated. Wirebugs automatically replenish over time, with one wirebug taking about 4.5 seconds.

Special Mechanic: Sharpness: The Hunter has a weapon sharpness meter, indicated by a multicolored sword-shaped icon below their character icon. As the Hunter's weapon loses sharpness, it loses damage and knockback. By using the Sharpen command, the Hunter fully replenishes their weapon's sharpness. Conversely, using the weapon to attack reduces the Hunter's sharpness, and thus the damage it deals. Sharpness does not replenish after being KO'd. At maximum sharpness level (which only lasts for 2-3 attacks), the Hunter's weapon can break shields and certain defenses, such as K. Rool's belly.

Neutrals, Tilts, Smashes and Aerials: The Hunter's weapon is a massive greatsword, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter cannot perform Smash attacks. Their neutrals, tilts and aerials are noticeably worse in terms of damage and knockback: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a small hunting knife.

While the weapon is drawn, ground attacks are significantly slower, but also much more powerful, and enjoy better range. While the Hunter cannot jump normally with their weapon drawn, they can use Up Special to become airborne, and perform a powerful downward-stab weapon attack from there. With the weapon drawn, certain neutrals and tilts can also be chained into Smash attacks.

The Hunter's Smash weapon attacks can be charged to three discrete levels, denotated by a glowing light at the center of the Hunter's body. A fully-charged Smash attack--especially at max sharpness--can break shields, and KO many characters at full health.

Grabs and Pummels: The Hunter's grab is slow in terms of start-up, and normal in terms of range and cooldown; the pummel is a series of swipes with their hunting knife. Their up, forward, and back throws are followed up by a kunai thrown at the enemy. However, the Hunter has a Grab Special: by inputing Up Special while grabbing someone, you will launch them upward with a wirebug attached, and follow them into the air with a powerful weapon swipe. This attack is strong and can easily kill, but it uses one wirebug. It also draws the Hunter's weapon, and puts them into a fall state once finished.

Neutral Special: Draw Weapon: Press the button to have the Hunter take out or put away their weapon, which affects the rest of their moveset. If the weapon is drawn while running or in the air, a "draw attack" is performed. If it's used while walking or standing still, the weapon is simply drawn without attacking. The Hunter can only walk, not run, while their weapon is out. Also, while their weapon is out, the Hunter cannot jump normally.

The Hunter's running/aerial draw attack is surprisingly fast, strong, and enjoys good range, so it's good to keep opponents guessing as to when you'll draw your weapon. Generally speaking, the Hunter should be constantly switching between drawing their weapon and putting it away to enjoy the full benefits of their moveset.

Up Special: Wirebug: After inputing the special, press a direction on the D-pad to have the Hunter shoot the wirebug and recover diagonally upward, or diagonally downward. (If used on the ground, this move can pull the Hunter diagonally upward, or forward.) If you press and hold Special in the air immediately after the move is performed, you will perform a second move, where the Hunter dangles in midair using a second wirebug. From this position, you can use one more regular jump, or simply cancel to drop down. Each of these moves uses one wirebug; without wirebugs, the Hunter has no real recovery.

There is a hidden "third" Up Special move: if the Hunter is launched, they have a small window of time where they can input Up Special to recover in the general direction they were launched from. This uses one wirebug.

Side Special: Silkbind Attack: This move results in different attacks depending on if it's used on the ground or in the air. On the ground, the Hunter uses Power Sheath, which puts away their weapon (if it was drawn) and temporarily raises the power of their next weapon attack, represented by a glowing wirebug floating behind the Hunter. The next weapon attack used will deal massive damage and knockback, as long as the effect is active (lasts about 3.5 seconds).

In the air, the Hunter will perform Hunting Edge, a vertical stab with the weapon, which can be quickly charged up to three levels in midair, and deals high damage. This attack can only be used after leaping into the air with a wirebug.

Both moves (the ground and air varieties) use up one wirebug when performed.

Down Special: Barrel Bomb: The Hunter places a barrel bomb in front of them, with a considerable start-up animation. If hit by almost any attack or projectile, it will explode, dealing good damage and knockback to all in range. However, it counts as an item, and can be picked up and thrown. In the air, the Hunter uses one wirebug to throw the Barrel Bomb diagonally downwards, which has less start-up and explodes on impact. In both versions, this move can only be used while the Hunter's weapon is put away.

On the ground, the Hunter can detonate the Barrel Bomb themselves and immediately go into a Smash attack; the super armor will allow them to follow up on enemies affected by the explosion.

Shield Special: Sharpen: The Hunter kneels to use a whetstone and sharpen their weapon. This animation takes about 2.5 seconds and fully restores the weapon's sharpness. If the move is interrupted, sharpness will not be even partially restored. This move can only be used with the weapon put away.

Final Smash: Wyvern Rider: A Tigrex breaks into the scene of the battle. The Hunter quickly uses their wirebugs like puppet strings to ride the wild monster. Once they're ready, the Hunter commands the Tigrex to rush the battlefield horizontally (similar to Ganondorf's Final Smash), sending all intercepted enemies flying.

Taunts: A palico appears to perform various classic Gestures with the Hunter, such as "Wave" and "Shadow Box."

Victory Animations: The Hunter celebrates with their palamute; the Hunter strikes a cool pose in tandem with their palico; the Hunter enjoys a gigantic meal set out on a table for them. Includes the Monster Hunter "Mission Cleared" fanfare.

Overview: Like Monster Hunter itself, the Hunter's playstyle is about resource management and careful positioning. Players have to keep an eye on their wirebugs and sharpness meter, while toggling between drawing and putting away their weapon. While both stances cripple the Hunter in different ways, there are ways to get around these limitations (mainly by using the Specials), and a judicious Hunter will develop a hit-and-run playstyle, while making full use of their fantastic weapon range, an explosive projectile, and some incredibly strong single-hit attacks.

Stage: Ancient Shrine: Based on the first level of Monster Hunter Rise showcased in the demo, this is a large, vertically-oriented stage with mossy rock spires, old wooden scaffolding connecting them, and a pair of small shrines up top. In the distance, a waterfall and some other gorgeous scenery are visible. In its regular version, the Ancient Shrine houses certain endemic life that only appears in this stage: mainly green, orange and red little Spiribirds which hover in place where they appear. The first player to touch one of these birds will recover some damage, or temporarily increase their defense or attack power, respectively. Other critters which may appear include: an Escuregot, which spreads a healing mist when attacked; a Puppet Spider, which can be picked up and thrown to encase foes in webbing; a Poisontoad, which spreads a poisonous mist when struck; and a Wailnard, a pheasant that cries out when attacked, calling a large monster.

Occasionally, or if a Wailnard's cry rings out, a Great Izuchi or Rathian will appear on the stage, attacking all players until it's disposed of.
 
Last edited:

meleebrawler

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Okay, so here's a tentative moveset for the (Rise) Hunter and an idea for their stage:

Monster Hunter

Alts:

Rise Standard Set (Male)
Rise Standard Set (Female)
Classic Hunter Set (Male)
Classic Hunter Set (Female)
Rathalos Set (Male)
Lagombi Set (Female)
Goss Harag Set (Male)
Somnacanth Set (Female)

Special Mechanic: Weapon Draw: The Hunter can use Neutral Special to draw or put away their weapon, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter's movement speed is significantly better, but they cannot use Smash attacks, and their Neutrals and Aerials become quite weak: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a hunting knife. While the weapon is drawn, the Hunter can only walk (not run), and cannot jump regularly; only with the use of their Up Special. However, their attacks are much stronger and have excellent range. Some of their Smash weapon attacks also have super armor.

Special Mechanic: Wirebugs: The Hunter has two wirebugs, which are represented by glowing light blue icons above their character icon. Certain moves use up one wirebug when activated. Wirebugs automatically replenish over time, with one wirebug taking about 4.5 seconds.

Special Mechanic: Sharpness: The Hunter has a weapon sharpness meter, indicated by a multicolored sword-shaped icon below their character icon. As the Hunter's weapon loses sharpness, it loses damage and knockback. By using the Sharpen command, the Hunter fully replenishes their weapon's sharpness. Conversely, using the weapon to attack reduces the Hunter's sharpness, and thus the damage it deals. Sharpness does not replenish after being KO'd. At maximum sharpness level (which only lasts for 2-3 attacks), the Hunter's weapon can break shields and certain defenses, such as K. Rool's belly.

Neutrals, Tilts, Smashes and Aerials: The Hunter's weapon is a massive greatsword, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter cannot perform Smash attacks. Their neutrals, tilts and aerials are noticeably worse in terms of damage and knockback: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a small hunting knife.

While the weapon is drawn, ground attacks are significantly slower, but also much more powerful, and enjoy better range. While the Hunter cannot jump normally with their weapon drawn, they can use Up Special to become airborne, and perform a powerful downward-stab weapon attack from there. With the weapon drawn, certain neutrals and tilts can also be chained into Smash attacks.

The Hunter's Smash weapon attacks can be charged to three discrete levels, denotated by a glowing light at the center of the Hunter's body. A fully-charged Smash attack--especially at max sharpness--can break shields, and KO many characters at full health.

Grabs and Pummels: The Hunter's grab is slow in terms of start-up, and normal in terms of range and cooldown; the pummel is a series of swipes with their hunting knife. Their up, forward, and back throws are followed up by a kunai thrown at the enemy. However, the Hunter has a Grab Special: by inputing Up Special while grabbing someone, you will launch them upward with a wirebug attached, and follow them into the air with a powerful weapon swipe. This attack is strong and can easily kill, but it uses one wirebug. It also draws the Hunter's weapon, and puts them into a fall state once finished.

Neutral Special: Draw Weapon: Press the button to have the Hunter take out or put away their weapon, which affects the rest of their moveset. If the weapon is drawn while running or in the air, a "draw attack" is performed. If it's used while walking or standing still, the weapon is simply drawn without attacking. The Hunter can only walk, not run, while their weapon is out. Also, while their weapon is out, the Hunter cannot jump normally.

The Hunter's running/aerial draw attack is surprisingly fast, strong, and enjoys good range, so it's good to keep opponents guessing as to when you'll draw your weapon. Generally speaking, the Hunter should be constantly switching between drawing their weapon and putting it away to enjoy the full benefits of their moveset.

Up Special: Wirebug: After inputing the special, press a direction on the D-pad to have the Hunter shoot the wirebug and recover diagonally upward, or diagonally downward. (If used on the ground, this move can pull the Hunter diagonally upward, or forward.) If you press and hold Special in the air immediately after the move is performed, you will perform a second move, where the Hunter dangles in midair using a second wirebug. From this position, you can use one more regular jump, or simply cancel to drop down. Each of these moves uses one wirebug; without wirebugs, the Hunter has no real recovery.

There is a hidden "third" Up Special move: if the Hunter is launched, they have a small window of time where they can input Up Special to recover in the general direction they were launched from. This uses one wirebug.

Side Special: Silkbind Attack: This move results in different attacks depending on if it's used on the ground or in the air. On the ground, the Hunter uses Power Sheath, which puts away their weapon (if it was drawn) and temporarily raises the power of their next weapon attack, represented by a glowing wirebug floating behind the Hunter. The next weapon attack used will deal massive damage and knockback, as long as the effect is active (lasts about 3.5 seconds).

In the air, the Hunter will perform Hunting Edge, a vertical stab with the weapon, which can be quickly charged up to three levels in midair, and deals high damage. This attack can only be used after leaping into the air with a wirebug.

Both moves (the ground and air varieties) use up one wirebug when performed.

Down Special: Barrel Bomb: The Hunter places a barrel bomb in front of them, with a considerable start-up animation. If hit by almost any attack or projectile, it will explode, dealing good damage and knockback to all in range. However, it counts as an item, and can be picked up and thrown. In the air, the Hunter uses one wirebug to throw the Barrel Bomb diagonally downwards, which has less start-up and explodes on impact. In both versions, this move can only be used while the Hunter's weapon is put away.

On the ground, the Hunter can detonate the Barrel Bomb themselves and immediately go into a Smash attack; the super armor will allow them to follow up on enemies affected by the explosion.

Shield Special: Sharpen: The Hunter kneels to use a whetstone and sharpen their weapon. This animation takes about 2.5 seconds and fully restores the weapon's sharpness. If the move is interrupted, sharpness will not be even partially restored. This move can only be used with the weapon put away.

Final Smash: Wyvern Rider: A Tigrex breaks into the scene of the battle. The Hunter quickly uses their wirebugs like puppet strings to ride the wild monster. Once they're ready, the Hunter commands the Tigrex to rush the battlefield horizontally (similar to Ganondorf's Final Smash), sending all intercepted enemies flying.

Taunts: A palico appears to perform various classic Gestures with the Hunter, such as "Wave" and "Shadow Box."

Victory Animations: The Hunter celebrates with their palamute; the Hunter strikes a cool pose in tandem with their palico; the Hunter enjoys a gigantic meal set out on a table for them. Includes the Monster Hunter "Mission Cleared" fanfare.

Overview: Like Monster Hunter itself, the Hunter's playstyle is about resource management and careful positioning. Players have to keep an eye on their wirebugs and sharpness meter, while toggling between drawing and putting away their weapon. While both stances cripple the Hunter in different ways, there are ways to get around these limitations (mainly by using the Specials), and a judicious Hunter will develop a hit-and-run playstyle, while making full use of their fantastic weapon range, an explosive projectile, and some incredibly strong single-hit attacks.

Stage: Ancient Shrine: Based on the first level of Monster Hunter Rise showcased in the demo, this is a large, vertically-oriented stage with mossy rock spires, old wooden scaffolding connecting them, and a pair of small shrines up top. In the distance, a waterfall and some other gorgeous scenery are visible. In its regular version, the Ancient Shrine houses certain endemic life that only appears in this stage: mainly green, orange and red little Spiribirds which hover in place where they appear. The first player to touch one of these birds will recover some damage, or temporarily increase their defense or attack power, respectively. Other critters which may appear include: an Escuregot, which spreads a healing mist when attacked; a Puppet Spider, which can be picked up and thrown to encase foes in webbing; a Poisontoad, which spreads a poisonous mist when struck; and a Wailnard, a pheasant that cries out when attacked, calling a large monster.

Occasionally, or if a Wailnard's cry rings out, a Great Izuchi or Rathian will appear on the stage, attacking all players until it's disposed of.
I don't want the Hunter to be solely Rise-focused, it's too restricting. And large barrel bombs aren't enough to tie things together between a stance that can't inflict meaningful damage and one that's too slow to reliably hit anything. The sheathed Hunter uses tools and throwing weapons to incapacitate their targets and make weapon hits easier to land. Kicks are a last resort.

I also don't think they'll really implement sharpness; stale moves is already a similar concept, and both Marvel and Stories also don't bother.
 

Arctiq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
314
Okay, so here's a tentative moveset for the (Rise) Hunter and an idea for their stage:

Monster Hunter

Alts:

Rise Standard Set (Male)
Rise Standard Set (Female)
Classic Hunter Set (Male)
Classic Hunter Set (Female)
Rathalos Set (Male)
Lagombi Set (Female)
Goss Harag Set (Male)
Somnacanth Set (Female)

Special Mechanic: Weapon Draw: The Hunter can use Neutral Special to draw or put away their weapon, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter's movement speed is significantly better, but they cannot use Smash attacks, and their Neutrals and Aerials become quite weak: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a hunting knife. While the weapon is drawn, the Hunter can only walk (not run), and cannot jump regularly; only with the use of their Up Special. However, their attacks are much stronger and have excellent range. Some of their Smash weapon attacks also have super armor.

Special Mechanic: Wirebugs: The Hunter has two wirebugs, which are represented by glowing light blue icons above their character icon. Certain moves use up one wirebug when activated. Wirebugs automatically replenish over time, with one wirebug taking about 4.5 seconds.

Special Mechanic: Sharpness: The Hunter has a weapon sharpness meter, indicated by a multicolored sword-shaped icon below their character icon. As the Hunter's weapon loses sharpness, it loses damage and knockback. By using the Sharpen command, the Hunter fully replenishes their weapon's sharpness. Conversely, using the weapon to attack reduces the Hunter's sharpness, and thus the damage it deals. Sharpness does not replenish after being KO'd. At maximum sharpness level (which only lasts for 2-3 attacks), the Hunter's weapon can break shields and certain defenses, such as K. Rool's belly.

Neutrals, Tilts, Smashes and Aerials: The Hunter's weapon is a massive greatsword, which is strapped to their back when not in use. While the weapon is put away, the Hunter cannot perform Smash attacks. Their neutrals, tilts and aerials are noticeably worse in terms of damage and knockback: mostly kicks, rolls, and swipes with a small hunting knife.

While the weapon is drawn, ground attacks are significantly slower, but also much more powerful, and enjoy better range. While the Hunter cannot jump normally with their weapon drawn, they can use Up Special to become airborne, and perform a powerful downward-stab weapon attack from there. With the weapon drawn, certain neutrals and tilts can also be chained into Smash attacks.

The Hunter's Smash weapon attacks can be charged to three discrete levels, denotated by a glowing light at the center of the Hunter's body. A fully-charged Smash attack--especially at max sharpness--can break shields, and KO many characters at full health.

Grabs and Pummels: The Hunter's grab is slow in terms of start-up, and normal in terms of range and cooldown; the pummel is a series of swipes with their hunting knife. Their up, forward, and back throws are followed up by a kunai thrown at the enemy. However, the Hunter has a Grab Special: by inputing Up Special while grabbing someone, you will launch them upward with a wirebug attached, and follow them into the air with a powerful weapon swipe. This attack is strong and can easily kill, but it uses one wirebug. It also draws the Hunter's weapon, and puts them into a fall state once finished.

Neutral Special: Draw Weapon: Press the button to have the Hunter take out or put away their weapon, which affects the rest of their moveset. If the weapon is drawn while running or in the air, a "draw attack" is performed. If it's used while walking or standing still, the weapon is simply drawn without attacking. The Hunter can only walk, not run, while their weapon is out. Also, while their weapon is out, the Hunter cannot jump normally.

The Hunter's running/aerial draw attack is surprisingly fast, strong, and enjoys good range, so it's good to keep opponents guessing as to when you'll draw your weapon. Generally speaking, the Hunter should be constantly switching between drawing their weapon and putting it away to enjoy the full benefits of their moveset.

Up Special: Wirebug: After inputing the special, press a direction on the D-pad to have the Hunter shoot the wirebug and recover diagonally upward, or diagonally downward. (If used on the ground, this move can pull the Hunter diagonally upward, or forward.) If you press and hold Special in the air immediately after the move is performed, you will perform a second move, where the Hunter dangles in midair using a second wirebug. From this position, you can use one more regular jump, or simply cancel to drop down. Each of these moves uses one wirebug; without wirebugs, the Hunter has no real recovery.

There is a hidden "third" Up Special move: if the Hunter is launched, they have a small window of time where they can input Up Special to recover in the general direction they were launched from. This uses one wirebug.

Side Special: Silkbind Attack: This move results in different attacks depending on if it's used on the ground or in the air. On the ground, the Hunter uses Power Sheath, which puts away their weapon (if it was drawn) and temporarily raises the power of their next weapon attack, represented by a glowing wirebug floating behind the Hunter. The next weapon attack used will deal massive damage and knockback, as long as the effect is active (lasts about 3.5 seconds).

In the air, the Hunter will perform Hunting Edge, a vertical stab with the weapon, which can be quickly charged up to three levels in midair, and deals high damage. This attack can only be used after leaping into the air with a wirebug.

Both moves (the ground and air varieties) use up one wirebug when performed.

Down Special: Barrel Bomb: The Hunter places a barrel bomb in front of them, with a considerable start-up animation. If hit by almost any attack or projectile, it will explode, dealing good damage and knockback to all in range. However, it counts as an item, and can be picked up and thrown. In the air, the Hunter uses one wirebug to throw the Barrel Bomb diagonally downwards, which has less start-up and explodes on impact. In both versions, this move can only be used while the Hunter's weapon is put away.

On the ground, the Hunter can detonate the Barrel Bomb themselves and immediately go into a Smash attack; the super armor will allow them to follow up on enemies affected by the explosion.

Shield Special: Sharpen: The Hunter kneels to use a whetstone and sharpen their weapon. This animation takes about 2.5 seconds and fully restores the weapon's sharpness. If the move is interrupted, sharpness will not be even partially restored. This move can only be used with the weapon put away.

Final Smash: Wyvern Rider: A Tigrex breaks into the scene of the battle. The Hunter quickly uses their wirebugs like puppet strings to ride the wild monster. Once they're ready, the Hunter commands the Tigrex to rush the battlefield horizontally (similar to Ganondorf's Final Smash), sending all intercepted enemies flying.

Taunts: A palico appears to perform various classic Gestures with the Hunter, such as "Wave" and "Shadow Box."

Victory Animations: The Hunter celebrates with their palamute; the Hunter strikes a cool pose in tandem with their palico; the Hunter enjoys a gigantic meal set out on a table for them. Includes the Monster Hunter "Mission Cleared" fanfare.

Overview: Like Monster Hunter itself, the Hunter's playstyle is about resource management and careful positioning. Players have to keep an eye on their wirebugs and sharpness meter, while toggling between drawing and putting away their weapon. While both stances cripple the Hunter in different ways, there are ways to get around these limitations (mainly by using the Specials), and a judicious Hunter will develop a hit-and-run playstyle, while making full use of their fantastic weapon range, an explosive projectile, and some incredibly strong single-hit attacks.

Stage: Ancient Shrine: Based on the first level of Monster Hunter Rise showcased in the demo, this is a large, vertically-oriented stage with mossy rock spires, old wooden scaffolding connecting them, and a pair of small shrines up top. In the distance, a waterfall and some other gorgeous scenery are visible. In its regular version, the Ancient Shrine houses certain endemic life that only appears in this stage: mainly green, orange and red little Spiribirds which hover in place where they appear. The first player to touch one of these birds will recover some damage, or temporarily increase their defense or attack power, respectively. Other critters which may appear include: an Escuregot, which spreads a healing mist when attacked; a Puppet Spider, which can be picked up and thrown to encase foes in webbing; a Poisontoad, which spreads a poisonous mist when struck; and a Wailnard, a pheasant that cries out when attacked, calling a large monster.

Occasionally, or if a Wailnard's cry rings out, a Great Izuchi or Rathian will appear on the stage, attacking all players until it's disposed of.
For the neutral special, you also have to take into account that Kirby will also get it. So a weapon drawing mechanic would be useless to him I feel.
 

Bobthealligator

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Also with how Smash works as a fighting game, people just wouldn't use the Greatsword and spend the whole match fighting with the hunting knife, something you couldn't do in the game itself. It's a cool idea, but probably not the way to go about translating the Hunter.
I think you'd really have to just bite the bullet and make him a low tier character. It would definately add to the feeling of fighting these massive monster that can simultaneously overpower and run circles around you.
 

meleebrawler

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Also with how Smash works as a fighting game, people just wouldn't use the Greatsword and spend the whole match fighting with the hunting knife, something you couldn't do in the game itself. It's a cool idea, but probably not the way to go about translating the Hunter.
I think you'd really have to just bite the bullet and make him a low tier character. It would definately add to the feeling of fighting these massive monster that can simultaneously overpower and run circles around you.
I don't follow this logic. I can get this feeling of fighting a massive monster by fighting the massive monster Rathalos that is already in the game. And nobody had to be specifcally be made low tier to preserve that feeling.

I still stand by my "themed loadouts" idea that lets you tailor the hunter's set of weapons if you want to favor power, speed, defence, zoning or unique benefits. As of World switching loadouts in active gameplay definitely possible, and after Steve I find it hard to believe this would truly be too difficult.
 

PK-remling Fire

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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the complexity of the moveset. I think simplicity would help the hunter a little more than having a lot of different factors. Not to mention a lot of those things could be referenced by taunts and other animations without necessarily affecting gameplay. For example, in order to reference sheathing, the hunter's running animation could include putting their weapon away and doing their famous sprint, then have them draw the weapon as a part of the end sprint animation. Other things could be taunts, where the hunter would be able to do anything between sharpening a weapon, chugging a potion w/ the flex, or roasting a meat with the sooo tasty sfx (though that could also work as a victory screen animation). I feel like those would be good homages without hampering the gameplay too much. If the hunter were added, their weapons would have to no doubt be faster than the source game, and it wouldn't be good if they had a ton of stuff to keep track of.

There was a video I saw a while back that had a hunter moveset concept I really liked. The main gimmick was the hunter being able to change weapons with down-b ala Min Min. This would give them a different neutral and side special depending on which one they had active, with the three choices being longsword, greatsword, and hammer. All the other weapons could then be relegated to tilts and smashes. That way, you could kind of get the Monster Hunter feeling of choosing your own weapon/playstyle in a way that's more cohesive to a fast paced fighting game, with the hunter having mostly the same moveset just with a couple changes depending on what specials you prefer.
 

Diddy Kong

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I'm still pretty confident that Monster Hunter will make it. Sephiroth only gave me a stronger feeling for this, as FF7 also had little content in Smash, similar to Monster Hunter. And adding the Monster Hunter through DLC will rectify this, by a lot.

Another question, as I really liked Monster Hunter Tri, but don't really feel much for Generations, how does Rise compare to these two games?
 

meleebrawler

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I'm still pretty confident that Monster Hunter will make it. Sephiroth only gave me a stronger feeling for this, as FF7 also had little content in Smash, similar to Monster Hunter. And adding the Monster Hunter through DLC will rectify this, by a lot.

Another question, as I really liked Monster Hunter Tri, but don't really feel much for Generations, how does Rise compare to these two games?
How should we know, the game isn't even out yet.

Early impressions suggest the game's structure is closer to the older games, as opposed to the more open, "always online" World or Iceborne, but Rise does take the QOL features and updates to core gameplay from. So if you didn't play World, you're gonna have to relearn almost every weapon.

Edit: Has anyone here played CrossCode? The elemental blights you can inflict on monsters in Rise are similar to the statuses in the former: Fire is constant damage, Ice slows things down, and Water (or at least the abstract form "Wave") decreases defence. Thunder is a bit different, but ultimately can give similar benefits; Rise causes all damage taken to contribute to stun, while CrossCode causes periodic bouts of damage that can give openings to attack. And the kicker, the most reliable way of causing these in most circumstances are elementally charged balls.
 
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meleebrawler

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Anyone hear the news about Nintendo using the Rise demo to test the servers they'll be changing to? It's interesting to see this level of cooperation between two big companies even outside of promoting games, and no doubt a testament to the faith in the game pulling massive numbers, by using even a demo to stress test such a massive shift.
 
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