JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
Welcome everyone to the new Sm4sh Zelda matchup thread.
For the Character Matchup discussion, we will be going in order of the cast on the Character select screen starting with Mario. Discussion will run for about 4 days to a week and then we will move onto the next character. Customs are being discussed as well just be sure to note in your explanations where customs are being considered. there is a format for summary below but you do not have to follow it when posting only use it if you so choose to.
At this time our redicsussion thread is located over here due to a lack of custom discussion in the beginning. It will also begin with Mario but will be open to suggestions for rediscussion.
Other than following general smashboards rules, I ask that even if you don't agree with someone's viewpoints on a matchup that you remain respectful and argue accordingly if you want to dispute someones post.
this will be the format for summary as follows:
Pros: The advantages zelda has over that character
Cons: The advantages that character has over zelda
Key Moves: important moves zelda needs in that match up
CounterPick Stage (Wii U): The recommended counterpick for that match up
CounterPick Stage (3DS): The recommended counterpick for that match up
Custom Temple: An indepth analysis on custom Zelda vs Custom foes *only moves, no equipment*
Score: The result of the data. Example/ 60-40 50-50 40-60, Custom score the results for customs
Zelda vs Mario
45:55|
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
| Range. With the exception of Mario's own Fsmash Zelda generally can outreach mario with moves like jab, Ftilt and Fsmash. To counter Marios speed you want to make good use of Zelda's range. The Elevator kills Mario @ 70% before rage and during rage the elevator kills at 50%, while not fullproof it does allow Zelda to Fish for a kill at an earlier percent than Mario can kill. We can dtilt Mario below the ledge, and Dsmash can still force Mario into a bad position because it forces him to recover low if it hits. Mario is weak from below, so attempts to Uair are optional. Mario has a average recovery, so Dair attempts are possible if Mario is recovering low. and even if he's not offstage harassment for a few added percents never hurts.Cons | Mobility. Mario is short and very mobile making it easy for him to capitalize on anything Zelda does that is too laggy. This also allows mario to Uair Zelda from below if he gets her in the air. Zelda is also succeptible to Mario utilt combos. Fireballs, while shieldable do allow Mario to camp, approach, bait, and control space due to how they function and Marios mobility. despite Zelda being able to get an early Elevator kill Mario's Usmash kills at 108% is also partially invincible. Bair, btrhrow, and dsmash all kill around 120 near the ledge, offstage. outside of Elevator Zelda also kills Mario around these percents with other moves. Mario's Fsmash can contest with Zelda's reach and also can kill her around 85% with Rage but usually requires a read to land, but be wary. Cape and Fludd can mess with Zelda's spacing with fludd/cape potentially gimping Zelda's recovery if she's not careful or getting pushed off when using dins. Mario can pester Zelda offstage with fireballs and other aerials to rack up extra damage where even if he doesn't gimp her, she still took added percents on the way back to the stage.
Key Moves | Ftilt and Fsmash becausen you want to use your range so Mario will have to respect your space and to counter his faster attacks. Dtilt is fast enough to clash with mario's fast attacks and also leads to our own combos and followups. Dsmash is not easy to land, but worth going for if Mario is in the 100's because it can force a low recovery and open up Dair attempts. Elevator is worth keeping an eye open for an attempt because it does lead to a very early kill. Utilt while left unmentioned can swat away Mario from above out of his aerials, good for keeping Mario from dropping on you.
CounterPick Stage (WiiU) | Something flat an omega or FD, avoid platform stages due to Mario's mobility and better platform control. Zelda should opt for omega stages that have as little "understage" as possible, ie no 90° vertical-wall-to-the-pit kind of omegas.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) | Same as Wii U
Additional info | Phantom is a mixed bag here. while it is reflectable Phantom's non attack properties are helpful. It still creates a wall that Mario has to either break or go around to hit Zelda, it can absorb some Fireball spam and prevent Mario from free camping with it. at the ledge it can also mess with Marios recovery if he hits it during UpB. instant Phantom is also still a nice attack option for instant space against Mario that doesn't really hurt if reflected.
Score | most agree this is at least slightly in Mario's favor. 45:55 Mario
Zelda vs Luigi
45:55|
Discussion Start
Discussion End
Pros
| Payless shoes. Luigi still suffers from "lol no traction" This is golden for Zelda and something you want to abuse as much as possible. Luigi's lack of traction makes Zelda's unsafe moves safeish, her safeish moves safe, and her safe moves neigh unpunishable on regular shield. This aids Zelda in what she normally wants to do and that's keeping her opponents out. Zelda does lose out in a few follow ups such as Jab>Grab on Luigi for this same reason but its a minor loss for the safety she gains that she normally doesn't have.Faroes is again important because Elevator is Zelda's earliest kill move that you should be on the look out for to help score an early stock lead if possible. Luigi also has a slow horizontal air speed meaning that outside of a misfire Zelda has some added Safety if she needs to Emergency Faroes away while confronting Luigi in the Air. Range is once again a +1. Zelda generally out-ranges Luigi and her magical hitboxes can still take priority over Luigis attacks if he's not close enough to touch her hurtbox first. You want to keep Luigi at max range and out of Zelda's personal space.Cons | CQC. Getting in on Zelda may be a bit hard for Luigi if Zelda is playing her spacing right but if he does get in Luigi is like Sheik, all damage. Luigi's grab leads to a plethora of damage and with fast low knockback moves like Fair Luigi could catch up from any percent disadvantage quickly and even reverse the whole situation into a KO. Zelda might escape without dying but may then be at a percent disadvantage that's very hard to come back from if she now has to approach Luigi who can opt to fireball her from max fireball range where Zelda doesn't have any approach. Cyclone can break into Zelda's wall of hitboxes inbetween her moves if Zelda's not careful and put her right into Luigi's zone. While Fsmash can stop it if timed right Cyclone is still something Zelda has to be wary of. Luigi is a One Hit Wonder nothing kills the morale faster than dying from a Misfire missile early, or eating a FJP combo at a low percent without having much to show for it on the next stock. Even Luigi's taunt can catch her recovery on the ledge if she forgets about it. Luigi has hidden powers that even if not spamable are still deadly things Zelda has to keep in mind and be wary of.
Key Moves | Ftilt,Fsmash, and Phantom are good at keeping Luigi at max distance out of Zelda's space. Jab is also good but no jab follow ups. Dtilt and Grab . Dtilt is Zelda's fastest close range option and last ditch effort to keep Luigi off of her. Grab is always good for some free damage either from Dthrow>Nair or just to toss Luigi away and force him to come to Zelda again. Dins can stop Luigi Missle on recovery helping aid in harassing Luigi offstage. It also helps on fishing for Luigi player reactions to Dins from far away.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | Big and open. No platforms because Luigi's fast aerials can give Zelda hell trying to get back to the solid ground. You also want a big stage to give Zelda more space to retreat and force Luigi to follow her around in a game of tag.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Luigi is one of those matchups where it can go either way. If he gets in Zelda loses, if he can't get in Zelda wins making this matchup very much about player ability dispite individual character pros/cons
Score | 45:55
Zelda vs Peach
35:65|
Discussion Start
Discussion End
Cons| Dat Pressure. While nerfed, Peach pressure game on Zelda is still strong. Her floated aerials combined with her good jab and grab keep Peach frame speed ahead. This is hard for Zelda to deal with on the ground. Add to that Peach's floated aerials make peach uncommitted to landing for a time unlike other characters and allow her to space her air moves away from Zeldas grab and create float traps on Zelda while she is shielding. It also makes peach still able to edgeguard Zelda for long periods of time because she can hang out in the air for a long time and harrass and/or gimp Zelda. While tuned down and now sometimes reflectable Turnips are still a pain for Zelda to deal with. The ambiguous uses of Turnips gives Peach an instant advantage when holding one because attacking her shield isn't an option because OoS Turnip retaliation for varied amounts of damage depending on the face. Zelda is forced to pay attention because a turnip fakeout can end with Zelda taking damage or dying. Turnips can also edge gimp Zelda if shes not careful on recovery. Add to this the buffs to Mr. Saturn's instant shield breaking, making shielding risky until he's gone or you get him. Peach also benefits from her own type of Finisher spam. Peach has a variety of moves that can kill and in regards to Zelda many of these moves are hard to punish without prediction. Fsmash is quick and unpunishable from block. Fair while floating can be retreated for safety, her Dtilt can lead to Parasol finishes too. Dash attack is partially unsafe on block for Peach but as its more of a last resort so its rare to see it as a finish but still can kill. Usmash is also somewhat difficult for Zelda to punish. The worst part is these moves can kill Zelda just as fast as Zelda can kill Peach, so no more tanking out Peach in the matchup. Peach is a very flexible character. She has the option to play more defensively or aggressively leaving Zelda forced to be ready for a tactics switch that's equally hard to deal with regardless to how Peach approaches the fight. Shes either bringing hitboxes towards you or walling you out with them once she has a lead. Its never ending. Peach traded out a killing Uair for the most obnoxious AA move from below Zelda. You can't challenge her new Rainbowair it so it forces Zelda to get below Peach or get away. Peach Bomber is like the habit checker. Roll to much after x action? SideB. Try to punish a move that looks punishable? SideB. Trying to bait an action? SideB. Peach can sort of freely toss this out because on shield she can rebound into a float and on whiff peach lands so low to the ground its hard to punish her with much except dtilt. the speed of Peach bomber makes it hard to bait Peach because she can just throw her butt at you for trying.Pros| Faroes. Elevator aside faroes is also good because if Peach isn't paying attention you can snipe her out of a turnip pull and Faroes crazy knockback can help get rid of Peach quicker. In an Air to Air situation due to Peach slower Air speed it is possible to abandon ship with Faroes to get away from Peach somewhat safer than other characters if not predicted. Faroes also allows Zelda to attempt offstage harassment and make it back to the ledge even if a gimp wasn't successful you mentally want to make Peach afraid of recovering recklessly. Quick Phantom is one of the best spacing tools we have to deal with Peach. even if Phantom is destroyed it still presents a wall and a hitbox with minimal lag Zelda can toss at Peach to help keep her from closing in on Zelda. You can use it to slow peach down on both a ground rush and air rush. Mid charge phantom has an even better hitbox for swating Peach away.
Key Moves| Phantom to aid in slowing Peach down and keeping her from going to town with hitboxes on Zelda's head. Nair is the Air to Air move that you can combat Peach with if you time your nair to intercept her in the air. Nair can also be used to advance on Peach while she's in the air and Zelda is on the ground, but it requires prediction and reading to nab Peach. its not a move to toss out whenever but you want Peach to respect you from the air. Dash Attack is faster than a Grab and can nab Peach in situations she's lagging or intercept her in the middle of actions. You can Utilt Peach's air moves and at least trade at times. It may not be a consistent answer to floating aerials but it does force Peach to respect your personal space if she is off spacing or getting predictable. You must remind Peach to respect your Feet like you respect her bum . if your really feeling a Dair go for it, even a fub could throw Peach off and gimp her in some cases. The same goes for Fair and Bair. you can't throw them out all willy nilly but a solid kick for 20% even if it doesn't kill can remind Peach she still has to respect Zelda's power.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U)| Platforms if you have a death sentence or like living on the edge. Otherwise your looking for a big open pasture for your Tea Party for 2.
CounterPick Stage (3DS)|Same as Wii u
Additional info| You command respect or get *****
Score| a bit nicer than Brawl, but still an uphill struggle of 35:65 Peach
Zelda vs Bowser
45:55|
Discussion Start
Discussion End
Cons
| Bowser has got a
new body
. He's big, fast, strong, heavy, and has super armor. Zelda only likes that he is big but not the rest. While easy to hit Bowser's large frame comes with the ability to take hits to very high percents making it where Zelda is in a race to either gimp him early or get him to kill percents and send him packing asap all while staying under 40%...
Shield
is Zelda's nemesis, combined with Bowsers OoS UpB, jab, tilts, claw, and grab it means poor shield spacing is going to hurt if you get caught slacking. The problem here is even with good spacing Zelda is still partially unsafe because Bowser has good reach and fast options OoS making even immaculate spacing feel unsafe. Zelda has to play a very safe game when confronting Bowser up close for fear of taking unnecessary damage.
Super armor
Usmash and Fsmash both contain protection and a death sentence if they connect. If Bowser expects an attack he could attempt to tank the damage and land a kill in the process. Bowser is also no slouch in the air, even though he prefers to be on the ground. all of Bowsers aerials have good reach and speed for a big person. Fair has a huge disjoint and Bair is lightning quick and strong meaning Zelda has to take care when confronting Bowser in the air especially if she didn't jump up there herself. Bowser bomb also hurts both on hit and on shield meaning you have to be wary hanging out underneath Bowser. Bowser is also pretty good at covering
Zelda's ledge options
. he has long lasting moves on the ground like Dsmash and UpB. UpB in particular can nab Zelda if she tries to roll back on. Add to that Bowser can simply waltz over and smoke Zelda off the ledge or prevent her from grabbing it with his flame breath. This makes Zelda sometimes have to make reads to get back on stage if Bowser stays onstage. Pros | That big body of Bowsers...makes him basically combo city for Zelda. Dthrow>Nair, Dthrow>Uair, Utilt>Nair, Bowser can't DI away from Zelda as easily as some other characters from Dthrow making combos the most viable. Even some set up follow ups such as Dthrow> Bair are more viable against Bowser due to his mass. This also makes landing kicks much easier since there is a bigger target to aim at. Zelda's ability to combo Bowser well actually helps her hold up with his big damage and come back if she's behind in percents and Bowsers not ready to die yet. Zelda has ranged options that have some utility here. Dins and to a lesser extent phantom can aid in inviting bower towards Zelda. He has no ranged option and despite his new speed Zelda can still put hitboxes near Bowser from long range while he cannot do the same to her, He can close in fast but Zelda would much rather him charge her than her try to hustle over to his flaming mouth and open claws.
Key Moves | Bowsers recovery is primarily horizontal so he can't afford to take a spike, even a fubbed one and expect to live. making edgeguarding with a Dair a great opportunity for Zelda when she can get Bowser away from the stage. Bowser has flame breath but this is one of the few matchups where " LOL Dins " is somewhat usable to make Bowser come closer. Helping Zelda not needing to approach first. It can also provide some offstage annoyance if Bowser is high and offstage if you don't feel its safe to jump out and meet him or to set him up into another move. There is also the possibility of nullifying his UpB with Dins. Fsmash hitrate goes up to 95% against Bowser due to his large frame so you have less to fear from pop outs its also safeish on shield from retaliation.Use Nayrus, fight invincibility with Invincibility. While Nayru's spamming isn't encouraged it can surprise Bowser if your in a situation you feel you can throw it out to hit him and not get hit go for it. Bowser is a big target and a perfect kick to his shield does nice shield damage and is safeish against a blocking Bowser. Zelda can also attempt to use kicks a little bit more ambigously against Bowser due to his size.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | Big open blue. Bowser can Usmash through platforms on like BF so having them there doesn't really benefit Zelda anymore than them not being there.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) | same as Wii u
Additional info | Bowsers ground moves also contain a partial invincibility meaning we have to be careful about trying to hit his moves or we could end up taking damage we don't need.
Score | 45:55 Bowser is big and scary but Zelda likes em big and meaty.
Zelda vs Yoshi
40:60 *short discussion*|
Discussion Start
Discussion End
Cons
| Yoshi the
body
. Yoshi is fast, strong, has an obnoxious long ranged projectile, armor on DJ, shield pressures...Its like Zeldas nightmare before Christmas. Dair whittles her shield to toothpick size, eggs make it difficult for Zelda to not approach. most of Yoshi's normals are very quick and hard for Zelda to react too in a close range situation. how do you like your
eggs
? scrambled?sunny side up? hard boiled? runny? Yoshi's got em all and more.
Eggs
are frustrating because its complicated to reflect them and Yoshi can toss them from afar unopposed outside of reading and egg toss for a Ferrari's Wind or reflect.Pros | Elevator kills Yoshi quickly...and that is all. Zelda really doesn't have anything to threaten Yoshi with outside of Elevator and she CAN gimp his recovery but the SA on his DJ make this complicated. Yoshi also has a some difficulty killing than some other characters due to needing to fish for a kill, but Zelda has telegraphed kill options outside of surprise Elevator. its a bonus because Yoshi can't just kill for free...but neither can Zelda? Shielding is good against Yoshi because at worst you will get grabbed or he might catch you in an egg lay for damage/attempted gimp. shield trust is very important in this matchup.
Key Moves | Zelda basically has to react accordingly to what Yoshi is doing. most of our general strategies of keep out are hard here because of Yoshi's speed.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |Undiscussed but more or less something open and flat. not necessarily large because you don't want to add space for Yoshi to egg camp
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii u
Additional info | Footstools can gimp Yoshi, if your feeling it go for it.
Score |4:6 Yoshi
Zelda vs Rosalina
49:51|
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|
Luma,
Rosies shining star is a very big con to Zelda. Luma allows Rosalina to control alot of space around her and can aid Rosie in trapping, pressuring, combos, and KOing Zelda at early percents. Luma can protect Rosie from close range pressure as well which forces Zelda to prioritize either separating or doing away with Luma to allow her space to deal with Rosie woman-to-woman. Luma also gives Rosie practically complete coverage of Zeldas ledge options making it almost impossible to get back on stage without having to make good guesses or ambiguous actions. On her own Rosie herself is kind of
Zeldaish
has relatively the same reach as Zelda with similar ground actions and tactics. fsmash and ftilt for spacing, a heavy grab game that can lead to air combos, Brawl Zelda Dsmash...add to this Rosies great jab and overall slightly faster ground game. Rosie also comes equipped with a fast and safe air game with good reach, damage, and some disjoints which is the opposite of Zelda's more power hit precision, but riskier air game Rosie's Uair can net Rosie early kills near the ceiling and her Dair can spike Zelda. this means Zelda has to approach the battle with Rosie as if she were fighting herself on the ground and fighting say Peach if she ends up in an air to air confrontation with Rosie.Pros |Zelda has a bit of a Lumaraid against Rosie. Zelda is pretty decent at getting rid of Luma. Fsmash, dash attack, Dins, Faroes, Ftilt even Nayrus to an extent...Luma can't block making it easy pickings for Zelda to send it away if she scores a decent hit on Luma. Zelda has to be careful throwing out moves to get rid of Luma as to not get careless and take too much unnecessary damage sending luma to detention. Rosie has some properties that Zelda actually prefers in her opponents. Rosie is tall and floaty making it easier for Zelda to land kicks and also allows Zelda to KO Rosie at reasonable percents outside of the early Elevator kills. Rosie also has a pretty straightforward recovery that Zelda has an easier time pressuring for a spike when she is offstage due to it containing no hitbox and only going in one direction. Rosie also being kind of a Zelda+ means that if she can get Rosie alone the matchup becomes more of a ditto match.
Key Moves | Fsmash/Dins/DA/Ftilt/Nayrus to deal with Luma and remove it from play while also scoring some damage on Rosie in the process. Zelda should always be on the lookout for Elevator opportunities to net an early lead on Rosie. Dair is greatly important for when you have Rosie offstage because you do not want her to come back after you went through the trouble of tossing her off. Fair/Bair are also moves to for to using because Rosie is a large target.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |Zelda wants to go to her old faithfuls of FD/Omega because Rosie has better advantage with platforms than she does.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Despite star bits being unreflectable Luma when charged for Luma shot is very much reflectable. GP can suck up Phantom the moment Zelda releases him and sends him to....wherever Rosalina's dutch oven sends things.
Score |49:51 Rosie
Zelda vs Bowser Jr.
5:5*short discussion*|
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|
Clown Car
makes bowser Jr.s frame slightly large making him easier for Zelda to hit compared to some other characters. Kicks and Nayru's are easier to land on Jr in the air due to his rounder frame.
Nayrus
can steal Jr.s mechakoopa and easily reflect away his cannon ball back at him. Dins also moves faster than his canon can charge up to hit Zelda from far away this allows Zelda to pseudo camp with a combination of Dins and Phantom since there is no fear of reflection or being out camped by Bowser Jr.
fub kicks
on Jr. when he is using his upB can stop him from gaining his car back, essentially gimping him if you catch him with it in the air.Bowser Jr. suffers from some
Zeldaisms
in his Nair,Ftilt, Fsmash all have strange blindspots in them similar to Zelda's attacks which can help Zelda in a pinch if Jr is off in his aim.Cons | The Clown car takes less damage than if you hit Bowser Jr directly which means that KO percents can be kind of inconsistent since most likely Zelda will be hitting the kart more often Bowser Jr might live to some higher percents if he isn't gimped early. SideB gives Bowser Jr a variety of approach mixups and combos out of the clown car which while not detrimental can be very frustrating to deal with as it is reminiscent of Sonic spin dashes which are hard for Zelda to keep up with being slow . add to this The car gains super armor while doing SideB so Zelda has to be careful aiming as to not take a counter hit trying to stop Jrs approaching car. the spin out of the Car can also KO so its something to keep in mind . Bowser Jr is quite powerful . His smashes can KO Zelda as low as 60% and the hammer attack from his UpB hits very hard as does the explosion from his Clown car. Zelda being floaty is also prone to being juggled a bit by Jrs Uair which also hits pretty hard. Jr can also cover Zelda's ledge grab with a downward angled Fsmash and send her packing if she is caught in it while recovering.
Key Moves | Nair is decent as an air to air battle tool, Jrs body being round with the car makes him easier to hit with it. Elevator as always is good for an early KO option as well as Ferraris Wind is good for catching Jr either during a car spinout or charging up his canon. Nayrus is good for doing away with Jrs mecha koopas and canon ball. Kicks are easier to land on the Car so even though it won't do as much damage it never hurts to take advantage of an easier to hit target. also fub kicks can nip Jr during his upB and stop his car from respawning.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |more or less the trusty Omega's or FD. Jrs mechakoopas can make platforms unavailable for a time and it doesn't seem Zelda gains much from a platform in this matchup
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Since all koopalings are playable you'll always be able to fight a different koopa kid regardless if the players fight the same.
Score |tenative 5:5
Zelda vs Wario
45:55 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|
Mobility
. Wario moves almost as fluidly as Jigglypuff in the air. this allows him to weave around and either poke Zelda's shield while running away, or just weave around in an attempt to bait her into doing something so he can punish her with an air move or a grab or
Bite
if Zelda turtles in shield too long or is baited into shielding Wario can just drop down and munch her face off. Wario is also pretty strong and pretty
heavy
so KOing him is tough with him alway staying up in the air most of the match and can tank hits while Zelda can't take as many.
Waft
doesn't happen often, but it does give Wario not only another KO move but also give him an added recovery options to Wario's already good recovery that makes it hard to gimp him with Dair.Pross |Zelda generally outreaches Wario on the ground and can stop his air approaches with moves like Utilt/Usmash/Jab. Bite can be neutralized with Nayru's if you catch it coming. Zelda can also Fsmash Wario's bike and still has a reach advantage if Wario is using a ground action. Other than bike Wario has no option of reaching Zelda from across the stage so it is possible to invite Wario towards Zelda with Dins and Phantom use.
Key Moves | Wario is going to be hanging out in the air alot so the basic strategy of box people out with Jab/Ftilt/Fsmash/Dtilt isn't as effective on Wario. instead Zelda will have to play a baiting game along with Wario. Utilizing Utilt/Usmash to stop Wario from dropping hitboxes on you from the air, Nayrus to stop Wario from dropping a Bite on your head, and Nair to combat Wario while he is in the air because he isn't on the ground much. Kicks are also good if you can make a read on which way Wario is moving because its harder to wait till he is on the ground to kick him.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |Undiscussed, but as the matchup is more based on baiting and Wario is a better air fighter than Zelda some place flat will probably be the best place to go unless you are confident in your use of platforms is greater than the Wario players.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Wario can't eat phantom.
Score |45:55 Wario
Zelda vs Donkey Kong
5:5 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|DK is still a
big guy
which means Combo City is live. add to this DK has trouble breaking out of combos which means that even if Zelda is behind she can really make a comeback with
combo damage
. being big also means DK is easier to
Kick
, making Bair OoS more viable on an unsafe blocked move from behind Zelda than some other characters. DK is a little
too big
for his shield so he is easier to shield poke with Fsmash than some other characters are if his shield is running low. DKs recovery is mainly
horizontal
so a Dair even fubbed is dangerous to him.Cons | Range . DK has alot of range which can make it hard for Zelda to get in and remain safe in neutral because of DK ftilt/bair,dtilt all moves with reall good range than can poke at Zelda if she tries to get too close to DK in addition to UpB OoS to further thwart Zelda's attempts at getting close while DK is blocking . DK is another big guy meaning he can tank Zelda's hits and KO her early. add to this is DK has alot of moves that do massive shield damage like headbutt, downB, blocking smashes. Zelda has to be very careful about over blocking or she might get shield broken and DK Punched. DK also has ok air speed, but he can harass Zelda if she's offstage with Bair and a ledge trump Bair is practically guaranteed if Zelda gets ledge trumped, Zelda has to be aware when she is recovering or she might not make it back even to the ledge.
Key Moves |Dtilt/Jab/Dthrow> Combo City . Zelda wants to be on her game about her combos and not let DK get away once she has started her chains. Kicks are good because DK is a big guy and easier to hit, also Dair can end DK if he's caught offstage with Dair.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | undiscussed but more or less somewhere open, no platforms because DK has too much reach and can swat Zelda if she happens to be on one too easily.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | hold up to break DK Fthrow hold
Score |5:5
Zelda vs Diddy Kong
35:65 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
| Monkeys. Diddy is
really fast
both in movement and attack, he has very
low cool down
on his moveset, and to top it all off some moves like his Fsmash and Fair can
outreach
Zelda's moves leaving her with little options to press the offense.
Fair
is a nightmare for Zelda because its too fast and has a ton of reach forcing Zelda to respect it and try to work around it to punish Diddy for walling her out hoo-hah just adds insult to injury, due to the nature of Zelda blocking alot she's susceptible to Diddys hoo-hah very easily. and due to Zelda's poor air game she can be
juggled
for days on end.
bananas
aren't as big for Diddy now as they were in brawl but it still gives Diddy a projectile that Zelda has to be worried about either getting around or getting a hold of to avoid trips and banana games.Pros |Zelda can gimp Diddy really well so when the chance arises Zelda must capitalize on Diddy being offstage with Dair or Nair to keep him from coming back, she may not get another chance. Zelda can keep up with Diddy when it comes to KO power so as long as she keeps up with percent she can kill just as well as Diddy when her moves connect.
Key Moves | Nayrus , to stop banana's and monkey flip. Despite Diddys speed Zelda can still generally poke out at Diddy with her staples of Fsmash/Ftilt/Dtilt Fsmash can also beat his monkey flip. quick Phantom also has some use for poking at Diddy with some sense of safety Dair/Nair are important for offstage gimps .
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |avoid platforms like the plague, op for the old faithfuls of FD and Omega stages.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | peanuts from gun are catchable.
Score |35:65, this is hard
Zelda vs Game and Watch
45:55 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|G@W is
light
so you can KO him with Elevator as early as 55%. in general he can be KOed pretty early which gives Zelda a bit of hope for the matchup.
Phantom
also can't be absorbed giving Zelda at least one partially ranged tool she can use on G@W.Cons |Short and Powerful. G@W is very strong with a very good air game . Many of his attacks have long active frames or lots of reach to wall Zelda out . Bucket limits Dins already minuscule use and cuts it down further due to not wanting to charge his bucket because a Dins bucket gives G@W an OHKO option. G@W Usmash has invincibility making it a powerful threat to Zelda if she ends up in the air and trying to land. G@W recovery is also neigh gimpable due to its invincibility and his ability to attack out of it.
Key Moves | Zelda's staples of Fsmash/Ftilt/Jab/Dtilt are still usable here. Zelda wants to focus on capitalizing on any mistakes G@W makes when she can. Phantom also aids a bit in poking G@W with added protection. Elevator kills very early so be on the look out when G@W reaches 50% for an opening.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |G@W aerials, especially Uair, can pester Zelda. so you want to avoid platforms because it gives him extra space to keep Zelda up in the air.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Dins gives bucket a double charge at once.
Score |45:55
Zelda vs Little Mac
35:65 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|
GROUND GAME.
Zelda is grounded fighter, so is Mac. Unfortunately for Zelda Mac can basically Sonic Taunt Zelda's ground game. Mac is
extremely fast on the ground
, he has a great running speed a far moving fast roll, quick normal moves, plus
Super Armor
on all his smashes and variations on his Fsmash. Mac can run circles around Zelda on the ground. he's too fast to use Dins against and Phantom only slows him down a bit off of a read, but usually dies in the process. just about all of his moves
outspeed Zeldas
own ground moves and he can easily capitalize on any poor baits or whiffs due to Zelda's laggier moves. Zelda is also light and tall so she's easy to hit and can die really early sans KO Punch which is just an added worry if Mac has his meter up. Mac also doesn't need to leave the stage to bother Zelda offstage, he can
dsmash
the ledge with near impunity because it reaches so low. and Zelda can't risk an onstage landing cause Mac can easily catch her and send her packing. The Super Armor on his moves is the real killer. his smashes are so fast and laugh at Zelda's multihit magic because he can plow right through and deal 3x the damage Zelda can deal. Its almost to the point
Zelda is better not attacking
...which leads to the next setPros | Shield . Mac has a meh grab game . some will grab in an attempt to throw you off or toss you off the ledge and edgeguard but generally they aren't deadly so feel free to Shield more as long as you don't get it broken. despite his speed Macs dash attack and Ftilt as is anything Perfect Shielded are grabbable which means this is the matchup for Zelda to become somewhat grab happy . it becomes her primary way of dealing damage because Mac has the worst air game , its all kick fub damage and the only thing you have to be aware of is his counter and a Nair>KO Punch set up if he has the punch ready, but if Zelda just threw him he more or less has lost the punch. Phantom despite being fragile can slow mac down a tiny bit and also presents a wall and a solid poke to deal a bit of damage while living, every bit counts. Zelda can rid Mac of his KO Punch if she lands a grab , all you need is a pummel or two and a Dthrow and its bye bye KO Punch as well as set Mac up for a landing mind game. When Mac is offstage Zelda only needs a fub Dair or a Nair to stop Mac from coming back if your not confident going out there you can even make false Dins assaults to make him counter whiff and not make it back.
Key Moves | Grab as its the safest way of initiating damage on Mac and putting him in a bad spot. Dtilt as a secondary way of damage that also leads to grabs. Timed Dtilts can also stop his dash attack. Dair/Nair when he's offstage and its time to make sure he doesn't come back. Phantom as a mix in way of spacing on Mac from time to time.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |you want to go to somewhere with Platforms and a moving stage is preferred as it will keep Mac slightly off balance due to changing elements. you never want to go to an all flat stage against Mac.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | you can actually run from KO punch and it can whiff, you can also grab trade with it but both options blow Zelda away with a very powerful windbox.
Score |35:65 DING
Zelda vs Link
45:55 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|
Nayru's
can reflect all of Link's projectile game and ruin some of his set ups and traps. Link is
heavy
for if Zelda catches him with a Dtilt/Dthrow/Jab she can put quite a bit of damage on him which helps her catch up as she battles through the projectile barrage coming from Link. Links
recovery
is better than before and more protected in front but weak and vulnerable from partially behind meaning Zelda can gimp Link and a Dsmash further puts Link in a bad position offstage to try and recover from.
Ferrari's Wind
has a nitch use here if you read a projectile coming to snipe Link and close the distance all in one go.Cons | Link like most swordsmen can really wall Zelda out with his disjointed sword. jab can poke at her from very far away and she is susceptible to his Jab shenanigans on hit. Utilt can further swat at Zelda and prevent her from closing in and sending her in the air. Links Usmash is impossible to escape and can send Zelda flying. Then aided by his projectile game and Zair can really give Zelda a hard time. Link is heavy so therefore he can sustain a fair bit of damage and not die early from an Elevator or even any of Zelda's other KO moves early like some other characters. Links Air game is better than Zelda's. he has a quick Nair and Bair allowing him to break out of some things Zelda might try at times not to mention his far reaching Uair and Fair.
Key Moves | Nayrus smart use to minimize projectile damage and foil Links traps. Dtilt/Dthrow to begin the damage cycle on Links percent bar. Dair to gimp Link when he's offstage and prevent him from coming back.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |undiscussed but you may want to go somewhere to help foil Links projectile game such as battlefield or somethere where Link can have a harder time recovering.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii u
Additional info | Links Shield can block things by him standing still
Score |45:55
Zelda vs Zorldo
40:60 Zorldo vs Zelda
40:60 |
free Discussion/complaints start
free Discussion/complaints end
Cons
|
What Is!
... Zorldo can't approach and she's built to stop approaches. any attempts at ranged combat from full screen can be met with a Ferrari's Wind to the face or reflected and neutralized. Zorldo's floaty so she's hard to combo and gets away with not taking a ton of combo damage. Zorldo can Farore's away if she is in danger and its hard to catch her other than by Ferrari's Wind. Zorldo's moves are transcendent so its no clank only win/lose/draw. Zorldo isn't a good air fighter and can't air approach Zorldo without getting punished. in an air to air situation it looks like two drunk people who were watching too many Bruce Lee films. Elevator Kills Zorldo well.Pros | What Is! ... Zorldo can't approach so once you have the lead you can sit and wait. she can't camp for fear of being reflected or met with Ferrari's Wind and can only attempt to mixup her way in. Zorldo can't combo herself that well because she's floaty and slow so its possible to get away from combo attempts with minor injuries. Elevator kills Zorldo well.
Key Moves | What Is! ... Nayru's because clank fighting is the only way to glory. Spotdoodge>dsmash because only against another Zorldo can we try to relive the glories of Brawl. Faroes because Zorldo is light and dies early from the Elevator.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | What Is! ... we love big open places or low ceilings, and so does she. so go somewhere she doesn't like like
CounterPick Stage (3DS) | What Is! ... she probably doesn't play 3DS so have a field day and take her to some stage and tell her its legal because she probably doesn't know that its not!
Additional info | Fujin/ALT is the holy mother and we must respect her until her next ressurection.
Score | What Is! ... 4:6 Zorldo
Zelda vs Sheik
35:65 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|
Speeeeeddddddd
. Other than Bouncing Fish whiffs and freefall times Sheik is
rarely if ever lagging
or not able to move from point A to point B in the blink of an eye. Her speed lets her do things like
pressure
Zelda with Fair, Jabs, Ftilt, Dtilt practically any more in her aresenal to pressure Zelda and
whittle down her defenses
or make her flinch and open her up for a world of pain from Sheiks lightning fast attacks.
Needles
are hard to see and even harder to punish outside of point blank and they allow Sheik to force Zelda to move if she has gained a lead and chooses not to approach Zelda once she has it. Sheiks throws with Fthrow and Dthrow can set Zelda up to be
air juggled
and carried off the stage where despite Zelda's good recovery she
could be gimped
by Sheiks fast and far reaching Bair or Bouncing Fish while offstage or possible stage spiked if she managed to make it to the ledge but didn't get away before her safety frames run out.Pros |Outside of tippered Usmash and near the ceiling Uair Sheik's only method of KOing is primarily off of gimps, she can't KO very well. with Zelda's good recovery it is possible to avoid being gimped and last out Sheik long enough to land a finisher with Zelda's Rage boosted attacks. Sheik has to rack up a ton of damage to get the kill and Zelda thrives off of Rage for earlier KOs against opponents. Zelda generally out ranges Sheik so despite her speed its possible to space Sheik so she may fall into Zelda's attacks due to their reach.
Key Moves | Nayrus smart use can aid Zelda in breaking out of Sheik's combo pressure and give her a little space to recollect herself. Jab and Utilt when placed correctly can stop Shiek from getting in if she jumps into the hitboxes when they are out. you want to try and lang a few grabs >Dthrows to help rack up damage and put Sheik in a position you may be able to take advanatage of. Nair is your go to air combat move against Sheik. staying in place in fear is what Sheik wants you to do so to deny her that pleasure you want to advance on her carefully with Nair as part of your keep moving strategy so Sheik can't just lock you in place. Fsmash new consistency and reach makes it a ok poking tool if you catch Sheik blocking or block a slightly laggy move.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |big open and bright, preferably a floating Island so Sheik has fewer options to recover with if she tries to follow you too far offstage or you knock her low and she is trying to recover. Avoid platform stages or suffer.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii U
Additional info | grenade sends Sheik into freefall in the air.
Score |35:65 we are quite hard on ourself...
Zelda vs Ganondorf
5:5 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|Ganon is another
big slow man
that Zelda loves because its her time to play combo city. Ganons large frame and being overall a
tad on the slow
side means Zelda's Dthrow/Dtilt combos work wonderfully as a way to rack up damage.
Nayru's
can block Ganons flame choke attempts and Zelda having a good roll meaning she is harder for Ganon to follow if she techs. Zelda's overall
better disjoints
help her in walling out direct aggression from Ganon with her fixed Fsmash and Ftilt she also has
ranged annoyances
in Dins and Phantom. Zelda also has an easy time
gimping
Ganon if he's not careful about how he recovers while he can't gimp her in return but beware of a possible Dair from Ganon if your not careful.Cons | Ganon while big and somewhat on the slower side is still much faster than some other heavies. his Usmash has low cooldown as do much of his normal ground moves with decent reach and extreme power behind them. Even if he is behind in percents it only takes a few solid hits from Ganon for him to close the percent gap and even net the kill if Zelda isn't careful. Ganon has a pretty good airgame and can juggle Zelda if he gets her in the air.
Key Moves | Dthrow/Dtilt to set up damage on Ganon and follow with combos. Nayrus to prevent Flamechokes and Dair/Nair to prevent Ganon from returning to the stage once he is off stage.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |unless your comfortable platforms may give Zelda a hard time with Ganon under her so it may be best to go somewhere big and open like FD.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii U
Additional info | Flame choke is only untechable if you are grabbed while shielding.
Score |5:5
Zelda vs Toon Link
40:60 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|like Link, Toonie plays a
similar game
with Zelda just trading range/power for
speed/mobility
which leaves Zelda in a mixed situation. Toonie is
light
and therefore doesn't live that long if you can land a killing blow at early percents, he also has a
short sword range
which rivals Zelda's own range on the ground but still disjointed. His
recovery is a bit lacking
in range and distance meaning that Zelda has an easier time spiking him than some other characters on recovery.Cons |Toonie being faster means he is harder for Zelda to catch up to, his speedy legs let him run circles around Zelda and his faster camping game can give her quite a difficulty catching up to him as he runs about the stage throwing things at her like an angry housewife. Toonies projectiles lead to combos if they connect and his kill power while lower than Links is safer to compensate so Zelda has to be very patient and aware that while he doesn't kill as fast Toonie is a high speed threat on stage.
Key Moves | Nayrus can reflect all of Toonies projectiles which can be helpful when used smartly to minimize damage and lessen chances for air follow ups and shield pressure from Toonie. Phantom also has a bit of use here as a wall to soak up some damage from Toonie's projectiles. in addition it slows him down if he runs into it and is a farther reaching disjoint than any of his physical attacks. Dash Attack is good at chasing Toonies landing if he doesn't have a projectile available when landing. Elevator kills Toonie at a decent percent (75% or so) as well as Ferraris Wind can still be used at times to intercept Toonie tossing a boomerang or arrow from a distance.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |platform stages might be preferred because they limit Toonie tossing down bombs onto Zelda as well as giving Zelda a little head coverage aiming at Toonie in the air. a big open stage can also suffice if you feel platforms are giving you more trouble than its worth.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii u
Additional info | like Link Toonie can also block projectiles by standing still
Score |40:60 Toonie
Zelda vs Samus
55:45 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|
projectiles
. despite having a reflector Samus can pester Zelda from range with her
variety of ranged options
. missles, Zair, CS, these things
force Zelda to close the gap
to limit how often Samus can shoot her and belt her with things and whittle at her shield making even a large lead hard for Zelda to hold for long. Zair and Fair make it
hard for Zelda to attempt aerial approaches
on Samus and limits her access to air options outside of hard reads and precise inputs. Zelda's slower ground movement can make it difficult for her to
outpace Samus upclose
and give her some difficulty landing good hits to finish Samus. Add to this Samus is a
decent up close fighter
giving Zelda a run for her money in CQC. Samus is odd because she's
heavy and floaty
which makes her not easy to combo and lives a long time because of the slow pace of the matchup with both characters taking minimal risk which can drag out the matchup. Samus
recovery is pretty good
so even if she's offstage gimping is probably a low probability.Pros |Zelda generally kills better than Samus despite her weight because she is floaty and Zelda is strong. as long as Zelda is cautious and waits for her opportunities she can land an earlier kill than Samus due to being stronger than her. Faroes and Nayrus do remind Samus to be cautious about her shooting as a good read on either a reflect or a Ferrari's Wind can net Zelda a nice KO and turn the tides of the matchup in an instant. Zelda's recovery is pretty good so she doesn't have to worry about being gimped often only some offstage harassment
Key Moves | Nayrus to help limit projectile damage and remind Samus to respect it. keep Ferrari's Wind opportunities in mind if you feel you have a chance to snipe Samus while she is camping or trying to zone you out. grabs to try and deal set damage and some combos against Samus and avoid her Oos options like UpB. Dtilt is also important as it is a fast ground option to fight Samus up close.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |no Platforms or long stages. you want to go somewhere short so it gives Samus less room to camp.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii U
Additional info | Samus Utilt can apparently be teched on the ground when hit on the ground but not from the air.
Score |55:45 Zelda
Zelda vs Zero Suit Samus
35:65 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|meet
Sheik
from a different movie. Zamus comes equipped with many of the threats that comes with fighting Sheik.
fast
mobility,
high damage
output,
low lag
, some disjoints,
Bouncing Fish
, but add to this a bit
better in the KO
department and some more range in exchange for being a bit more committed to her buttons. Zelda has no chance to do any ranged options nor do anything laggy for fear of death or high punishment. Zamus
juggles Zelda
for days and Zelda has very little chance of making it back down at all. Zamus is so
mobile
that once Zelda loses the lead by any given amount her chances of winning keep declining as she can run circles around her all day...Pros | Zamus is very light so in the event you get her with a KO move at anything over 100(especially near the blastzones) she probably will die. Zamus can be punished for some things, Zelda just has to be immaculate in her punishment for her few laggy moves like Dair and sideB and perfect shielding .
Key Moves | Dtilt>jab>grabxx Follow Up works generally up to mid high percents. Fsmash works now and can suck Zamus into it as it generally outreaches some of her basic attacks
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |somewhere open, not necessarily big, but no platforms.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii U
Additional info | Dtilt can clank with paralyzer shot
Score |35:65 Zamus
Zelda vs Pit
??:?? Cons |stuff
Key Moves |stuff
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |stuff
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |stuff
Additional info | stuff
Score |stuff
Zelda vs Falco
5:5 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|
Camping for once isn't a big deal
, Nayrus reflects lasers and Phantom stops them from hitting Zelda, they also won't
reach full stage length
on some stages and are
slower to fire
with much more lag. while Zelda can sort of jank camp with aerial Dins at times as well as possibly snipe with Ferrari's Wind if she reads a laser shot. Zelda and Falco have about the same reach and outside of SideB, Falco
doesn't move much faster
than Zelda in the air or on the ground allowing Zelda to close the distance easier if she can stuff the SideB and retreat if she needs to because Falco's camping game isn't too strong. Falco is a bit of a
fast faller
making him susceptible to Zelda's Dthrow combos.
Zelda's floatiness and better air speed
allow her to escape some of Falco's non true combos because he isn't as fast to follow her in the air. Zelda has a pretty
easy time stopping
Falco's firebird on recovery with Dair which Dsmash forces a low recovery at high percents due to its KB angle. Falco can't go too far offstage and his Dair requires a bit more timing which makes it
hard for him to gimp
Zelda if she is offstage.Cons | in CQC Falco is still faster than Zelda as a whole and his Jab shuts down many of her options in CQC due to its priority and speed. it can be difficult for Zelda to space this move alone because Falco's other moves have almost as much reach as hers with better speed. SideB can be hard for Zelda to punish at times due to its speed without prediction which can frustrate her if Falco decided's to play a hit and run game with SideB. Falco's reflector can be a bit annoying for Zelda to approach through and it also renders charged Phantom useless due to the reach it covers on reflect.
Key Moves | Nayru's and Phantom in conjunction to block out camp attempts from Falco. Nayru's can also escape some follow up pressure from time to time. Fsmash can due to its disjoint outreach some of Falco's CQC game as well as a well timed one eats his SideB. Dtilt and Dsmash are Zelda's fastest options to fight Falco upclose and Dsmash can set Falco up for a Dair at high percents.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | Falco's feel open stages put the battle on more even terms and that platforms give Zelda a bit of an edge. so go platforms for once, but trust FD/Omega never hurts.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |same as Wii U
Additional info | JigglyZelda theories: Duck Hunt could be an optimal stage. the unusual layout of the platforms combined with it being a long stage where Falco can't laser Zelda so well but she can stand on a tree and shoot if the situation presents itself. the flatwalls mean no diagonal ledge recoveries for Falco making easy spikes. /theories
Score |5:5
Zelda vs Villager
5:5 *short discussion*|
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|Zelda overall is
stonger than Villager
which is her biggest advantage. gaining an
early KO
can make it hard for Villager to catch back up because with one stock ahead Zelda isn't forced to use her bad approach options to hurt Villager only defend and retaliate.
Dtilt crouches Zelda's hurbox
really low which can help her minimize some slingshot damage she may take during the match.
Nayrus can reflect
lloids and slingshots, it also can reflect villager riding the lloid back offstage if the situation presents itself.
Dins Fire can't be pocketed
so it actually allows Zelda to pester Villager from fullscreen and ruins tree setups because he can't hide and shoot from behind it.
Phantom makes an ok wall
for blocking Villager slingshots as well as a little quick damage if Villager decides to try and close in.Cons |Villager can pester Zelda with slingshots until she's weeps in defeat because she is tall and easy to aim at. combined with her bad approach it can be hard for her to hold a lead if Villager is content on pelting her until he has a lead back. he also juggles her pretty well if he knocks her up in the air and with a combination of lloid plus slingshot can have an easy time baiting Zelda into being grabbed and tossed. as well as lightly pokes her out with his grounded normal moves. Pocket makes Phantom charge almost unusable because the threat of him getting taken and used against Zelda is too great a risk. Zelda is forced to play a slow camping.
Key Moves | Most of this matchup is fighting over Villager's Pocket. he can only hold one thing in it at a time for 30 seconds and then its gone. for this reason Nayrus is usable against Villager. if he pockets a lloid he can fire two at once but he can only recapture one, if he has a slingshot he can't capture another one and if Zelda refuses to use charged Phantom she has no need to fear it being turned on her. Tree and bowling ball are also reflectable and very powerful when reflected. Dins is very important here at trying to force Villager to move closer with the slingshots and good aim can even allow some trade outs that work in Zelda's favor due to Dins doing more damage from a distance. Dtilt is good for starting close range combos as usually in addition to crouching Zelda. Dash attack is also good at closing in and catching some of Villagers landings.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |Someplace big and open preferably with easy recovery zones as Villager has a great recovery so gimps will be rare and you don't want to gimp yourself on a bad recovery stage. or someplace with close blastzones to make killing Villager faster.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii u
Additional info | Villager tree primarily drops a wood block when cut down, but an apple from time to time.
Score |5:5
Zelda vs Shulk
40:60 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Cons
|Shulk is this annoying hybrid of
support character+swordsman
. Monado Arts make it where
Shulk can change his stats
to give Zelda a bit of a hard time.
Speed makes him move faster
allowing him to get into Zelda's personal space like a rushdown character,
Buster gives him increased damage potential and comboability
,
Jump lets him jump higher and recover better
as well as air poke Zelda and juggle her easier, and then you have
Smash which ups Shulks KO power
on an already light Zelda. If it wasn't to add insult to injury Shulk also has the
longest sword range
in the game. He can poke Zelda from almost a mile away and make her life difficult if he ever gets a too far ahead lead because it makes Zelda's bad approach just look...silly. Shulks
Vision is also one of the longest lasting counters
and since Zelda's so strong any countered move from her is going to hurt very badly.Pros |The Monado Arts give Shulks temporary bonuses but also weaknesses that Zelda can exploit if she is diligent and understands the Arts. Speed makes Shulk faster but lowers his damage output by 20% and jump height which makes Shulk take more damage and if you hit him offstage midjump he can have a harder time recovering. Buster lowers Shulk defense and makes him take more damage if he is hit which means Zelda can make a damage comback or a lead if she can turn Buster against Shulk. Smash makes Shulk very light and also more unsafe on shield which can help Zelda if she blocks an attack while Shulk is in Smash (beware Smash throws). Shulk overall even when under Speed Art is slowish on start up he just has a lot of reach so Zelda can punish him if she can get him to mess up his spacing. Shulk is somewhat comboable mean that Zelda's basic combos do work on him for damage and the threat of Vision can actually aid Zelda if she reads it and allow her to continue damage. offstage without a second jump and Jump Art available Shulks recovery is subpar so Zelda can gimp him if he gets knocked off the stage in a bad way.
Key Moves | Grab is one of safest thing Zelda can do as a way to rack up damage on Shulk as you'll mostly be positioning yourself to throw off his spacing. its also a way to wean him off of being ready to counter and opt for spotdodges giving Zelda more attack opportunities of a spotdodge read. Dtilt is one of Zelda's fastest ground options that lead to combos against Shulk and clanks with his fastest move (frame 5 Jab). Dsmash is good to put Shulk in a bad position offstage because it sends him low if he is knocked off by it. Phantom has its uses as an extra spacing too to contend with Shulks range. Phantom and Dins have niche uses here because Shulk has no ranged options so he can be harrassed from a distance if he doesn't have the lead.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |Shulk wants to avoid places with low ceilings such as Halberd so it may be best to go to such stages or go somewhere where Shulks non-jump sub-par recovery could be his undoing.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii U
Additional info | MALLC(sp?) apparently Shulk can cancel his landing lag but cancelling his currently activated Monado Art. in some situations this could give Shulk an opening against Zelda if she blocked a move and thought she was safe.
Score |4:6, This is the Monado's Power
Zelda vs Dark Pit
??:?? Cons |stuff
Key Moves |stuff
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) |stuff
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |stuff
Additional info | stuff
Score |stuff
Zelda vs Lucina
5:5 |
Discussion start
Discussion end
Pros
|
Lucina is the easy Marth
in both a positive and a negative light. On the positive side
Lucina lacks tipper outside of her Shield Breaker
which gives Zelda a little relief. lacking tipper means Lucina
isn't as safe on block
from max range as well as Zelda doesn't have to worry so much about early deaths from a spaced Fsmash.
Zelda is overall stronger
than Lucina before Rage kicks in allowing her to get earlier KOs with Elevator and Fsmash and Rage makes Zelda even better at finishing where as
Lucina is only deadlier in Rage or on a shield break
.
Zelda has a better combo game
off of her Dthrow and Dtilt allowing her to rack up easy damage if she catches Lucina in these moves. Zelda also
benefits from Ranged options
to harass Lucina from a distance and invite her to approach Zelda when Zelda has the lead. Lucina's
recovery is decent but its also straightforward
allowing Zelda to get easier gimps on Lucina if she recovers poorly with Dair or just knocking her too far for her to recover.Cons | Lucina is like the easy Marth in both a positive and negative light. on the negative she still retains many things that Zelda dislikes about Marth . Lucina has a sword, which allows her to play a spacing/poke game with Zelda that is hard for Zelda to deal with as it can keep Zelda from doing as much damage as she could if she could get closer by walling her out with moves like Dtilt/Ftilt/Fair. Lucina's Shield Breaker and Dancing Blade wear on Zelda's shield which she is reliant on for defense making Zelda forced to think very carefully about when and how much she is holding up her shield. Lucina juggles Zelda very well . with her sword she doesn't have to fear Zelda's aerials very much and with her good speed on both the air and ground can easily give Zelda a hard time getting her feet back on the ground with moves like Fair and Uair, even Dancing Blade can lightly juggle Zelda. Lucina can still harass Zelda offstage if she is in close proximity when Zelda gets knocked offstage with Fairs and even if not gimping her try to make her flinch and mess up her recovery. Due to Zelda's strength getting countered by Lucina can really hurt so Zelda has to be careful about throwing out power moves all willy nilly.
Key Moves | Dins/Phantom as a ranged assault to invite Lucina closer, you don't want to approach if you don't have to. Dtilt/Dthrow combos and follow ups. Lucina will spend most of the time trying to wall Zelda out so when you do get in you want to put on as much damage as possible to make her get desperate. Uair, Lucina isn't as well guarded from below in the air so if you get below her you want to look for opportunity to mix in an Uair for damage or surprise KO. Fsmash as it is the best spacer on a grounded Lucina if you have the upperhand and you want to space her out for more damage or a KO. Dair is also important if Lucina is offstage as even a fun can hinder her just enough that she can't make it back.
CounterPick Stage (Wii U) | Lucina makes better uses of platforms so you want to go to a trusty open world like FD or an Omega. or a low ceiling stage such as Halberd or Duck Hunt.
CounterPick Stage (3DS) |Same as Wii U
Additional info | Lucina got a recent Zelda buff to her smashes damage making them a tad safer than before thanks to based Metwo.
Score |5:5
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