A Difficult Transition

[Phrygian]

I have been playing Smash 4 since the beginning of high school, but I have just recently begun taking it seriously. At first, I picked up Ganondorf as my first serious main and played him for the first semester of college but I realized after a couple of for glory matches, that when someone camped against him, that was basically "game over" because Ganondorf has mediocre approaches at best.

Now, I have switched over to Sheik in order to potentially win more matches than I had as Ganondorf and eventually compete in tournaments if I decided that I was good enough. After about a week of being a Sheik main, I realized that Sheik is a very stressful character to play. Gameplay with Sheik is a lot more fast paced and so I find myself pressing a lot more buttons than I had with Ganondorf. This leads me to my first issue. Sometimes, when playing Sheik, I find that my inputs do not come out and this usually happens in the most detrimental moments of a game, like going for the foward tilt into up air setup. This happens on and offline. The other thing that I have an issue with is getting kills. Usually I have to wait for my opponent to climb well into the 100 percent range before I can claim a kill with the aforementioned setup. The only other option is to get a good offstage combo and land a bouncing fish, and though I have done it before, I find it inconsistent. The rest of my kills are attributed to hard reads.

The purpose of me starting this thread was to potentially get some advice. I have three things that I am hoping to get responses about. The first thing I want to know is how I can fix my input issue that occurs on occasion. Secondly, does anybody know any kill setups aside from the two that I mentioned earlier and how reliable are they? The last thing I'm wondering about is Sheik techs. Preferably the more obscure ones as I've heard at least a little bit about the common ones (needle cancelling, instant needle cancelling, crawl sliding). If anyone could give me advice in these areas, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Phrygian]

One last thing that I forgot to mention. My combo game started off good, but then one of my friends figured out he could just nair in the middle of a combo and break it. Completely ruined my game against him. Is this unavoidable or is there a way to punish this?

 

[GaRFielf808]

I'm no Sheik user, but I've played against some solid Sheik mains. In the hands of a player with technical know how and a very strong understanding of other character's frame data, Sheik is overwhelmingly good at times. However, if you are new to the competitive scene, I would highly recommend playing as a more basic character that will utilize simpler strategies and set-ups than Sheik, as Sheik is very complex, technical, and hard to pick up as a main. I do believe you could main Sheik effectively but it would be an incredibly grueling transition. I'd recommend Diddy Kong or Mario as characters to start out with, as they are well rounded and will aid in helping you understand the fundamentals of competitive SSB4 and still have a possible edge in battle. Normally, I'd say Ike is good to learn with, but he is also very difficult to win with, but then again- in early development it is way better to learn than to win. Anyway, I recommend Diddy because of his simple objective based gameplay (bannana to grab to profit, for example) and Mario for his well roundedness and his uncanny ability to project skill level when he is used. If you are intent on using Sheik, Izaw has a great video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4-BixqAkAuE). Most good Sheik mains I have faced have killed either very late or very early, even when I use heavier characters like my pocket Bowser. Sheik can kill early with offstage combos, and actually gimp very effectively by needles, fairs, sometimes nairs, and can kill offstage with bouncing fish, up air, and sometime even upspecial. The Sheik mains I have faced are very stage control oriented and try to bait and throw you offstage often due to Sheik's solid air/combo game. Sheik has a good neutral, as well. I'm not sure why she doesn't jab often, but I know Izaw gave a good reason in his video. Also, Shiek has a good tech in b reverse needles as it'll change momentum, and although situational, it is a nifty tool for conditioning. As for input controls, I'm afraid you might be inputting controls before a previous input is completed, making it so your inputs don't all come out. This is easy to do with Sheik considering her attacks are so fast. Make sure you really want to main Shiek before you do, don't burn yourself out by playing a character you don't like (I've done it before), and welcome to the competitive scene. I don't know much about Sheik techs, but I'm sure somebody more experienced than me will let you know. My account is new, but I am not, just to let you know.

Nair in mid combo means your combo wasn't true and could be avoided. Sheik can be quick enough to land true combos to avoid this by fast falling and buffering attacks in combos.

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

It seems that our having issues pulling off clean and fast inputs. If your not using a GC controller, start doing it. You may also be over prioritizing a few different aerials, and you should focus much more on tilts and grabs in your gameplay. Your opponents seem to be picking up on this, and killing your combo game. You have to adapt to your opponent in smash 4, even more so than other smash games (except maybe 64.)

 

[Phrygian]

I'm no Sheik user, but I've played against some solid Sheik mains. In the hands of a player with technical know how and a very strong understanding of other character's frame data, Sheik is overwhelmingly good at times. However, if you are new to the competitive scene, I would highly recommend playing as a more basic character that will utilize simpler strategies and set-ups than Sheik, as Sheik is very complex, technical, and hard to pick up as a main. I do believe you could main Sheik effectively but it would be an incredibly grueling transition. I'd recommend Diddy Kong or Mario as characters to start out with, as they are well rounded and will aid in helping you understand the fundamentals of competitive SSB4 and still have a possible edge in battle. Normally, I'd say Ike is good to learn with, but he is also very difficult to win with, but then again- in early development it is way better to learn than to win. Anyway, I recommend Diddy because of his simple objective based gameplay (bannana to grab to profit, for example) and Mario for his well roundedness and his uncanny ability to project skill level when he is used. If you are intent on using Sheik, Izaw has a great video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4-BixqAkAuE). Most good Sheik mains I have faced have killed either very late or very early, even when I use heavier characters like my pocket Bowser. Sheik can kill early with offstage combos, and actually gimp very effectively by needles, fairs, sometimes nairs, and can kill offstage with bouncing fish, up air, and sometime even upspecial. The Sheik mains I have faced are very stage control oriented and try to bait and throw you offstage often due to Sheik's solid air/combo game. Sheik has a good neutral, as well. I'm not sure why she doesn't jab often, but I know Izaw gave a good reason in his video. Also, Shiek has a good tech in b reverse needles as it'll change momentum, and although situational, it is a nifty tool for conditioning. As for input controls, I'm afraid you might be inputting controls before a previous input is completed, making it so your inputs don't all come out. This is easy to do with Sheik considering her attacks are so fast. Make sure you really want to main Shiek before you do, don't burn yourself out by playing a character you don't like (I've done it before), and welcome to the competitive scene. I don't know much about Sheik techs, but I'm sure somebody more experienced than me will let you know. My account is new, but I am not, just to let you know.

Nair in mid combo means your combo wasn't true and could be avoided. Sheik can be quick enough to land true combos to avoid this by fast falling and buffering attacks in combos.

Thank you for the advice. I actually started to pick up Mario and Diddy Kong when I first got into competitive smash and I am alright at playing them. Ike was even my first main and when I pull him out now, I can usually put up a good fight. I am really intent on playing Sheik though. The others are strong secondaries of mine. I actually have been watching a lot of videos about Sheik and a lot of sets with Void, Mr. R, and Zero playing Sheik and I have managed to pick stuff up. I learned that landing a fair in the neutral at low percents can usually lead to a grab and this has been revolutionary for my neutral with Sheik. My biggest issue now though is killing. The only kill I can land with Sheik is foward tilt into up air, but this happens well into the 100 percent range. I find it hard to get offstage kills as people will always airdodge bouncing fish. And my biggest issue right now is punishing spot dodges. I can't figure them out at all and every time I fail to punish, I get punished really hard. Any tips for these predicaments?

 

[Phrygian]

It seems that our having issues pulling off clean and fast inputs. If your not using a GC controller, start doing it. You may also be over prioritizing a few different aerials, and you should focus much more on tilts and grabs in your gameplay. Your opponents seem to be picking up on this, and killing your combo game. You have to adapt to your opponent in smash 4, even more so than other smash games (except maybe 64.)

I actually changed my tv to game mode and it solved most of the issue. And I have been using a GC controller. My tilt combos are fairly strong, I just do not often find myself in a position to use them. I see them as an option if I find myself in close quarters with an opponent. But this does not happen often as I usually get camped by my friends. Even when I do pressure with needles.

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

I actually changed my tv to game mode and it solved most of the issue. And I have been using a GC controller. My tilt combos are fairly strong, I just do not often find myself in a position to use them. I see them as an option if I find myself in close quarters with an opponent. But this does not happen often as I usually get camped by my friends. Even when I do pressure with needles.

Generally, because of shiek's amazing tilts you really have to combine camping to create the situations for you to use a strong tilt game. I don't play a ton of Sm4sh, but the general rule is that if you have one very strong kill pressure, you set up the rest of your attacks to lead into that one pressure. Don't let this affect your normal approaches, because if you focus too much on one pressure, you can shred your gameplay apart. Just try to lead into tilts a little more. I know that most shieks play for percent rather than knockback, and you have to configure your mindset for that tactic.