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Last month, the 4BR released their second official tier list for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U:
After in-house discussion from 4BR members and some common outside opinions opening up, we'd like to address some frequently asked questions and talk a bit more about results.
Frequently Asked Questions
Why is Top Tier much larger than its previous iteration, which contained 3 characters?
v1.0 featured a meta that had a more restricted set of characters winning tournaments, with Sheik and Zero Suit Samus being the two big winners. However, as the last 6 months have shown, more characters have been seen as a powerful threat and capable of taking national level or higher tournaments, as many of the voters reflected by containing more characters in their highest tier (and very few votes that had one or two characters at the top).
Why were Miis an addendum?
As of late, Miis have remained a heavily controversial element of Smash 4. Players, figures and tournament organizers in the Smash 4 community have yet to come to a real consensus on how to handle these characters due to their unique nature of creation.
We decided to make the Miis an addendum, not only taking into consideration the two most common Mii rulings (1111 Guest Size, and XXXX Guest Size), but also giving the option to abstain. The reasoning behind this was not only to respect the fact that not all regions share the same ruleset, but that many regions simply just aren't sure how to handle the characters altogether.
Why is X character considered Low Tier?
As stated in the initial release, the 4BR Leaders decided upon using an average group ranking with concurrent votes - tiers, or groups of characters, and the order of characters within them. The score range for groups came to about a 1-10 scoring range (1.72 - 9.88), and the team decided to work with 5 "general" tiers, and 9 tiers total (with bottom tiers being merged together).
After these were split into 5, it meant that any characters that were caught in the score of 4.33 or less (starting with Mr. Game & Watch) would be considered a low tier or bottom tier. Despite the fact that some of these characters, such as Palutena, can defeat top players in the right hands, many of these characters simply have large flaws without the draws of higher tiered characters. In the end, there will always be characters that will simply place lower than others, even if they have some potential.
When will the next version of the Tier List (v3.0) release?
We are currently targeting a January 2017 release for v3.0.
Standard deviations varied, as seen by the data, but the consensus for characters at the top and characters near the bottom were generally more consistent.
Shaya compiled the votes among our Japanese voters, and our European, Australian and South American voters. Keep in mind that there was a limited number of both sets of voters; this makes the numbers more indicative of trends rather than sweeping statements.
Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group)
Cloud | 0.67 | 1.106 | 10.0 | 0.0
Sonic | 1.83 | 1.067 | 10.0 | 0.0
Diddy Kong | 2.33 | 1.374 | 9.76 | 0.532
Rosalina | 2.83 | 1.572 | 10.0 | 0.0
Bayonetta | 5.5 | 3.149 | 9.25 | 0.758
Mario | 5.67 | 2.809 | 8.58 | 0.677
Sheik | 6.83 | 3.532 | 8.64 | 0.993
Mewtwo | 7.33 | 1.886 | 8.5 | 0.768
Zero Suit Samus | 8.0 | 1.291 | 8.16 | 0.378
Fox | 8.83 | 3.184 | 8.16 | 0.378
Ryu | 11.83 | 6.012 | 8.26 | 0.915
Mega Man | 12.67 | 6.316 | 7.55 | 0.955
Pit | 14.83 | 4.67 | 7.55 | 0.955
Pikachu | 15.33 | 3.145 | 7.02 | 0.823
Toon Link | 17.17 | 3.891 | 7.35 | 0.744
Villager | 17.5 | 6.449 | 7.08 | 0.628
Corrin | 17.6 | 6.344 | 6.44 | 1.172
Lucario | 18.0 | 6.683 | 6.94 | 1.14
Captain Falcon | 19.33 | 4.955 | 6.84 | 0.804
Meta Knight | 19.67 | 7.909 | 6.94 | 1.14
Greninja | 20.0 | 3.651 | 7.08 | 0.628
Ness | 21.67 | 6.289 | 6.66 | 0.953
Lucas | 22.5 | 5.909 | 6.5 | 0.653
Olimar | 23.0 | 5.627 | 6.74 | 0.578
Dark Pit | 23.67 | 9.268 | 6.42 | 0.981
Marth | 26.0 | 5.0 | 6.09 | 0.681
Yoshi | 26.0 | 5.26 | 6.09 | 0.681
Peach | 27.33 | 6.368 | 5.81 | 0.727
Duck Hunt Dog | 27.4 | 7.658 | 6.03 | 1.069
Donkey Kong | 28.67 | 3.636 | 5.99 | 0.754
Bowser | 28.67 | 4.346 | 5.57 | 0.421
Lucina | 30.17 | 3.76 | 5.57 | 0.421
R.O.B. | 30.33 | 6.498 | 5.67 | 1.496
Link | 31.33 | 11.441 | 5.69 | 1.235
Wario | 34.17 | 5.241 | 4.92 | 1.24
Mr. Game & Watch | 34.17 | 7.988 | 4.49 | 1.401
Shulk | 34.83 | 6.388 | 4.88 | 1.412
Samus | 34.83 | 6.466 | 4.71 | 0.938
Pac-Man | 35.83 | 3.484 | 5.33 | 0.626
Ike | 36.67 | 6.316 | 4.15 | 0.495
Luigi | 37.17 | 4.18 | 5.0 | 0.71
Robin | 39.33 | 3.771 | 4.15 | 0.495
Bowser Jr. | 39.5 | 8.958 | 4.05 | 1.337
Palutena | 39.83 | 7.29 | 3.58 | 1.524
Little Mac | 44.17 | 2.478 | 3.4 | 0.885
Mii Gunner | 45.6 | 6.621 | 3.24 | 1.103
Charizard | 45.83 | 3.578 | 3.16 | 0.804
Dr. Mario | 47.17 | 6.012 | 3.03 | 1.474
Falco | 47.33 | 3.35 | 2.83 | 0.802
Roy | 49.0 | 2.887 | 2.31 | 0.942
King Dedede | 49.33 | 2.211 | 2.65 | 1.111
Wii Fit Trainer | 49.5 | 2.217 | 2.65 | 0.744
Mii Brawler | 49.8 | 4.578 | 2.67 | 1.153
Kirby | 49.83 | 3.76 | 2.65 | 0.744
Ganondorf | 51.5 | 4.349 | 2.31 | 0.942
Zelda | 53.0 | 3.055 | 2.08 | 0.481
Jigglypuff | 54.5 | 2.141 | 2.08 | 0.481
Mii Swordsman | 55.4 | 1.497 | 1.87 | 0.405
Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group)
Diddy Kong | 1.54 | 2.024 | 9.8 | 0.462
Sheik | 1.85 | 2.445 | 9.78 | 0.515
Cloud | 3.23 | 2.081 | 9.6 | 0.599
Rosalina | 3.31 | 1.682 | 9.37 | 0.685
Mario | 4.31 | 2.162 | 9.47 | 0.68
Sonic | 4.92 | 2.702 | 9.28 | 0.67
Fox | 5.54 | 1.906 | 9.06 | 0.641
Zero Suit Samus | 7.46 | 1.781 | 8.65 | 0.509
Mewtwo | 7.85 | 3.348 | 8.74 | 0.387
Ryu | 8.31 | 3.75 | 8.63 | 0.757
Bayonetta | 9.85 | 4.383 | 8.54 | 1.024
Pikachu | 13.46 | 3.388 | 7.6 | 0.882
Meta Knight | 14.85 | 5.855 | 7.53 | 0.804
Villager | 15.0 | 3.464 | 7.36 | 0.478
Ness | 15.15 | 2.957 | 7.4 | 0.75
Mega Man | 16.23 | 5.78 | 7.26 | 0.622
Toon Link | 16.85 | 3.301 | 7.19 | 0.529
Marth | 17.54 | 6.046 | 7.3 | 0.643
Greninja | 18.08 | 5.385 | 7.06 | 0.918
Corrin | 19.31 | 4.444 | 7.16 | 0.696
Lucario | 20.31 | 6.043 | 6.56 | 0.767
Captain Falcon | 21.85 | 4.538 | 6.68 | 0.477
Donkey Kong | 23.54 | 4.749 | 6.34 | 0.661
R.O.B. | 24.31 | 4.889 | 6.14 | 0.811
Pit | 25.31 | 4.357 | 6.03 | 0.764
Yoshi | 25.69 | 4.746 | 6.36 | 0.727
Dark Pit | 25.85 | 4.737 | 6.03 | 0.764
Luigi | 26.31 | 6.741 | 5.9 | 1.186
Peach | 26.62 | 7.022 | 5.98 | 1.048
Bowser | 29.92 | 6.65 | 5.33 | 0.968
Lucina | 31.31 | 7.936 | 5.34 | 1.102
Lucas | 31.46 | 3.319 | 5.44 | 0.735
Robin | 32.77 | 5.423 | 5.22 | 0.782
Ike | 32.92 | 6.318 | 5.14 | 0.702
Wario | 33.46 | 3.177 | 5.19 | 0.617
Olimar | 33.46 | 8.915 | 5.22 | 1.216
Little Mac | 36.31 | 7.549 | 4.67 | 0.929
Mr. Game & Watch | 36.85 | 6.15 | 4.77 | 1.008
Link | 37.77 | 7.617 | 4.47 | 1.259
Palutena | 38.54 | 4.846 | 4.43 | 0.791
Duck Hunt Dog | 38.85 | 4.974 | 4.39 | 0.898
Pac-Man | 39.15 | 6.274 | 4.16 | 1.127
Kirby | 42.46 | 3.875 | 3.88 | 0.774
Wii Fit Trainer | 42.54 | 5.198 | 4.06 | 0.606
Samus | 43.54 | 6.246 | 3.66 | 1.552
Roy | 44.62 | 4.306 | 3.53 | 0.778
Shulk | 45.92 | 3.222 | 3.45 | 0.671
Bowser Jr. | 46.38 | 2.843 | 3.15 | 0.879
Falco | 46.38 | 4.234 | 3.01 | 1.142
Dr. Mario | 46.54 | 3.855 | 3.25 | 0.667
King Dedede | 47.69 | 6.169 | 3.03 | 1.504
Charizard | 49.0 | 2.542 | 2.9 | 0.963
Mii Brawler | 49.0 | 11.328 | 2.49 | 1.694
Mii Gunner | 51.67 | 5.935 | 2.04 | 1.1
Zelda | 52.15 | 1.833 | 1.87 | 0.598
Mii Swordsman | 52.5 | 5.708 | 1.83 | 1.111
Ganondorf | 52.92 | 0.997 | 1.78 | 0.639
Jigglypuff | 54.54 | 1.216 | 1.56 | 0.449
For additional reference, here is the raw voting data from all voters.
Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group) | Weighted Group | Difference from v1.0
Diddy Kong | 1.32 | 1.501 | 9.88 | 0.391 | 9.95 | +8
Cloud | 2.18 | 2.18 | 9.84 | 0.418 | 9.91 | +10
Sheik | 2.66 | 2.734 | 9.65 | 0.7 | 9.82 | -2
Rosalina | 3.39 | 2.085 | 9.66 | 0.634 | 9.85 | -1
Mario | 4.88 | 2.443 | 9.33 | 0.786 | 9.62 | +3
Sonic | 5.39 | 2.756 | 9.29 | 0.733 | 9.61 | ±0
Fox | 5.88 | 2.376 | 9.15 | 0.776 | 9.56 | ±0
Zero Suit Samus | 7.09 | 2.182 | 8.83 | 0.782 | 9.28 | -6
Ryu | 8.41 | 4.165 | 8.68 | 0.874 | 9.14 | -5
Mewtwo | 8.46 | 3.07 | 8.72 | 0.73 | 9.21 | +27
Bayonetta | 8.93 | 3.914 | 8.74 | 0.885 | 9.14 | New
Pikachu | 13.88 | 3.274 | 7.67 | 0.9 | 8.26 | -7
Meta Knight | 14.54 | 5.931 | 7.62 | 1.092 | 8.17 | -4
Villager | 15.07 | 4.358 | 7.51 | 0.806 | 8.08 | -3
Mega Man | 15.93 | 5.837 | 7.4 | 0.937 | 7.95 | +13
Ness | 16.39 | 4.916 | 7.41 | 1.068 | 8 | -3
Toon Link | 16.64 | 3.739 | 7.23 | 0.836 | 7.82 | +5
Corrin | 17.85 | 6.337 | 7.15 | 1.107 | 7.66 | New
Marth | 19.36 | 6.852 | 7.01 | 1.063 | 7.47 | +23
Captain Falcon | 20.95 | 4.615 | 6.72 | 0.922 | 7.26 | -6
Greninja | 21.11 | 5.731 | 6.8 | 1.052 | 7.32 | +4
Lucario | 21.52 | 5.405 | 6.63 | 0.968 | 7.14 | +1
Yoshi | 23.64 | 5.201 | 6.42 | 0.984 | 6.9 | -8
Pit | 23.73 | 6.264 | 6.39 | 1.115 | 6.83 | -6
Donkey Kong | 24.41 | 4.854 | 6.27 | 0.98 | 6.68 | +2
Peach | 24.52 | 5.898 | 6.2 | 1.079 | 6.64 | -7
Dark Pit | 24.89 | 5.888 | 6.27 | 1.044 | 6.68 | -10
R.O.B. | 25.64 | 5.393 | 6.08 | 1.17 | 6.51 | -8
Luigi | 27.34 | 6.583 | 5.95 | 1.126 | 6.26 | -13
Olimar | 30.93 | 7.914 | 5.62 | 1.338 | 5.94 | -6
Robin | 30.98 | 6.396 | 5.42 | 0.931 | 5.61 | ±0
Bowser | 31.55 | 5.812 | 5.23 | 1.018 | 5.4 | -2
Lucas | 32.18 | 7.071 | 5.17 | 1.149 | 5.34 | +3
Wario | 32.61 | 4.471 | 5.26 | 0.943 | 5.43 | -13
Ike | 32.68 | 5.711 | 5.06 | 1.03 | 5.08 | -7
Lucina | 34.52 | 7.746 | 4.95 | 1.178 | 5.08 | +13
Mr. Game & Watch | 37.8 | 6.637 | 4.38 | 1.337 | 4.33 | +1
Pac-Man | 38.73 | 6.016 | 4.34 | 1.097 | 4.18 | -6
Little Mac | 38.8 | 6.891 | 4.21 | 1.149 | 4.01 | +7
Palutena | 38.91 | 5.881 | 4.11 | 1.156 | 3.94 | +12
Kirby | 39.27 | 6.413 | 4.23 | 1.166 | 4.06 | -5
Duck Hunt | 40 | 7.697 | 4.21 | 1.303 | 4.05 | +3
Link | 40.64 | 8.186 | 4.09 | 1.338 | 3.94 | +1
Shulk | 41.77 | 6.753 | 3.86 | 1.267 | 3.6 | -2
Samus | 42.66 | 6.459 | 3.71 | 1.186 | 3.49 | +8
Bowser Jr. | 43.18 | 5.907 | 3.61 | 1.138 | 3.33 | -10
Wii Fit Trainer | 43.18 | 5.465 | 3.65 | 1.043 | 3.35 | -5
Dr. Mario | 45.16 | 4.554 | 3.47 | 1.051 | 3.11 | -1
Falco | 45.75 | 4.141 | 3.25 | 1.036 | 2.86 | -9
Roy | 46.02 | 5.323 | 3.38 | 1.191 | 3.08 | -15
Charizard | 48.27 | 3.763 | 2.82 | 1.077 | 2.48 | ±0
King Dedede | 49.02 | 4.06 | 2.7 | 1.146 | 2.32 | -6
Mii Gunner | 51.26 | 6.322 | 2.28 | 1.124 | 1.7 | +2
Mii Brawler | 51.89 | 6.696 | 2.26 | 1.316 | 1.76 | -3
Zelda | 52.07 | 2.235 | 1.92 | 0.616 | 1.49 | +3
Ganondorf | 52.66 | 2.254 | 1.9 | 0.651 | 1.47 | ±0
Mii Swordfighter | 53.85 | 3.951 | 2.04 | 0.947 | 1.53 | -2
Jigglypuff | 53.98 | 1.433 | 1.72 | 0.604 | 1.35 | -1
Notable Characters Analysis
Much like the previous vote, there was a handful of characters whose personal positions on the tier list were heavily debated and contested, as well as some notable placements on the tier list that deserve a mention.
This time around, Link was, according to raw voting data, the most controversial character between voters. A lot of this honestly came up due to the fact that many of Link's huge results came after the voting period, though that's not to say that T has carried the sole weight. He appeared in both high, mid, and low tier in many votes, making him quite the perplexity. However, come v3.0, if Link continues his streak, he will likely move up, with some top players thinking that he might even be a high tier.
Olimar walked away with the second highest standard deviation. With his representation being rather sparse, and having a smaller pool of character experts, it is not much of a surprise that he ended up with this much diversity in rankings.
@Myran, 4BR member and widely recognized as one of the best Olimars in the world, has provided a write-up regarding Olimar and his current place in the meta:
So Olimar is a character that most players including some Olimar players consider bad. His results aren't as strong as other characters, but I think that's due to other circumstances as opposed to the characters flaws. Most top Olimar's including myself don't travel out of their states that often. For various reasons, mine being money, this means he doesn't get very strong displays often. He's not perfect, but he's top 15 imo, and easily high tier. I do generally well in FL almost always landing top 8 at the big tournaments here, and have been for awhile. I know Shuton does very well in Japan even making top 3 at some of the stacked ones. There's some other good placings, but I don't know them all.
What I think really holds Olimar back in many players eyes is that they either have interactions with him that skew their perspective and make them thing oh he's not good. (Looking at the regions with Olimar players who may not be as strong) Information regarding him that has circulated, but is only a part of his overall character. The information I'm talking about is how Pikmin clank. Yes they are considered projectiles. However, they have some interesting properties that allow them to circumvent the issue of clanking when performed right. To add to this they're some of the best projectiles in the game only really losing to ones that can't be stopped. Examples being Thoron, fully charged Water Shuriken, and ROB Laser.
So let me break down some of the techniques and things Olimar can do to circumvent his largest issue, the clanking. There's something that I coined a "desync smash". This happens when Olimar is moving and starts a smash after the movement. So if he's running and does an up-smash or a pivot fsmash, or if he's falling and lands with a smash (Usually dsmash) it can trigger it. What happens is if the opponent throws out and attack it can catch the Pikmin during the start of the smash before it's hitbox comes out, it's hurtbox is out because it has been desynced by the smash. By the opponent throwing out an attack it locks the Pikmins position in place (This means the Pikmin will smash from where it was as opposed to where Olimar is currently), and finishes the smash. (Once a smash is started it can't be stopped or killed during the attack) Since the opponents attack hit the Pikmin before the smash hitbox came out the opponent is stuck there in the animation. This allows the smash to commence uninterrupted hitting them. I've punished some of the best moves in the game with this, True Shoryuken being one of them. It does sound situational, but with continued practice I'm getting better and better at making it happen. Since it's really just awareness and positioning it's a viable tool to punish attacks you cannot normally. On a smaller not you can do this technique to a similar extent without desyncing the position. Whenever a smash is being charged the Pikmin sits their with it's hurtbox active, this means when spaced right it can soak hits then release hitting the opponent. It's how Olimar can punish things like Shuttle Loop, Mario Up-B, Shoryuken, and more under the ledge when they have hitboxes. Actually if the moves trade at the right time Olimar may even be hit, but the smash will still hit them since their move hit something. This is just one of the tools Olimar has to work around his weaknesses.
Another big advantage he can gain is lagging his opponents hitbox's with his Pikmin. This can backfire at times, but I'd say a solid 90% of the time it's allowed me to punish moves I couldn't normally. It's also allowed me to dodge ones I shouldn't have been able too. This is an extremely important use of the Pikmin, and is again something I feel more Olimar players should put into practice.
He can pressure extremely well with the proper lineup. Having two to three purples can allow him to pressure shield better than most if not all characters in the game imo. Retreating purple bair is safe on shield, and when coupled with purple side-b before hand it can allow for strong pressure. His smashes are also notorious for poking shields. (I hear this complaint from players to often to ignore it) His dsmash can break shield when up close since both Pikmin can hit shield, and with a red and purple or two purples it's not hard to take it from 100% to 0%. His nair is a great way to snub out the approaching opponents move since it's a nice long multihit.
His defensive options also help him reduce the issue of being juggled somewhat easily. He has whistle which has super armor frames 6-12 and very little lag allowing you to tank a hit, and then punish most of the opponents moves. B-Reverse Pikmin Pluck allows him to switch his momentum and direction similar to what whistle did in Brawl. His up-b can be used as a third jump and immediately canceled into an aerial if need be. (It can also get out of combos and multihits often). He's hard to gimp since his recovery covers so much distance, and he can chuck purples towards you to put of some hitboxes while he recovers.
What I'm getting at is that he has strong tools to combat the opponent, and he can be the aggressor with the proper lineup. The biggest thing holding him back is how unforgiving he is to play. He requires more than just managing Pikmin, his spacings and timings have to be very precise most of the time. Unlike most characters, being off makes you just outright lose the transaction or have a Pikmin do a standard desync. (Most desyncs can be worked around with proper spacing and awareness) It's a work in progress from me and other top Olimars. I think once we start attending more it'll make him look better to most, but for the time people are seeing what is a work in progress. He doesn't have amazing confirms like ZSS, Ryu, or others. He has some, and they're strong, just not as over-centralizing as theirs. I'm one to look at Olimar's abilities when people can actually put his tools into proper use. I've had days where I felt I could take any character in the game no problems just by using his tools properly. So if people wanna tell me why they feel he's mid tier or worse I'd love to hear it. I don't think saying results really does it justice, because in the states where he's present he usually does well. He just doesn't get to attend nationals that often.
Much of Lucina's controversy came from the distance between her and Marth in the tier list, mainly from whether or not she and Marth should be grouped together. Ultimately, the 4BR decided that the differences between these characters are enough to not warrant a merge and so she was ranked differently from Marth. Even so, Lucina jumped up 13 spots due to her buffs alongside the Hero-King (who jumped up 23 spots).
One of the big issues behind the character is where exactly her shortcomings place her compared to Marth. She generally has a big lack of results, which often only adds to the question as well.
M@v , Fox and Lucina player from the 4BR, gave a good analysis on the big differences between Marth and Lucina, and how it affects the gap between the two characters:
The below quote was edited after release to rectify errors.
Lucina's placement compared to Marth is an issue that is brought up quite often, and it is again the case with the new tier list. Why is Lucina, a character that is almost identical to Marth, not right next to him/tied with him on the tier list? Before we dive into this with more detail, let's start off by pointing out in earlier patches, Marth and Lucina were indeed much closer to eachother. But overtime, the list of buffs they received helped Marth more in the longrun than Lucina. This is in addition to the inherent advantages the tipper mechanic has in many situations. Let's break it down:
Let me preface by briefly covering how their swords work.
Lucina does not have a tipper, but her sword does what is approximately inbetween a marth tipper and non tipper in terms of damage and knockback along the entire blade (I can hunt the exact stats later; pretty sure they are in the Marcina boards). This brings up the fact that Lucina gets more damage out any attack that is not tippered compared to Marth. For a good while, this was the cornerstone of the pro Lucina argument: Unless you were perfect, Lucina could potentially be more beneficial in the longrun since you will not be landing every single attack as a tipper, no matter how good you are as a player.
With that aside, lets dive in.
First, the patch changes that affected Marth and Lucina. There were multiple patch changes that affected them roughly the same (IE slight % increases in damage here and there), but there were two patch changes in particular that helped Marth especially.
The big one: The shield stun changes.
When the patch rolled around that introduced increased shield stun (I need to go back and double check which one), this had a massive impact on Marth. Tippers induce a lot more shield stun on an opponent. The result of this is that Marth can be much safer than Lucina when attacking a shielding opponent. With proper spacing, his tippers moves can be much harder for a shielding opponent to punish. Having this huge safety advantage over Lucina pays massive dividends, especially when having to face down top tier characters where a couple frames can mean the difference between being safe and being punished.
All of Marth and Lucina's A moves follow the same principle for the most part: Marth's will be better if spaced, Lucina's will be superior if not. Marth can gain some better combos though by hitting with untippered moves, which will lead into tippered follow ups easier.
Their grabs and throws are exactly identical. Both do the same things at the same %s
Their Special moves is where it has been argued Lucina has an advantage. But does she really? Depends.
(B) Shield breaker: Although Lucina's is still a powerful move, Marth's give the strongest chance to break shield while charging the least amount of time due to tippers. Both have stock ending potential though.
(Side B) Dancing blade: In general, Lucina's is much more reliable in terms of KO potential. The last hit of Lucina's side b is pretty strong and can end stocks at decent percents. That being said, Marth's can tipper more often than people realize. Following an opponents DI and ending it with a side direction or up direction attack pending their DI can net you a tipper quite often, as well as just bad DI from an opponent. As you can imagine, this can net super early kills.
(up B) Dolphin slash: are the same.
(down b) counter: are the same.
Lucina also has a fatal flaw in her design. In most matchups, despite having the ability to do consistent damage anywhere on the blade, she has to play the spacing game anyway to be the safest. So essentially, so has to play like marth and go for tippers to remain as safe as possible anyway. In these situations, you are being directly gimped by not being Marth in a matchup where you have to play like Marth. A straight downgrade.
Last but not least, results. This section speaks for itself. Marth has much better and consistent results in the current meta. Players my Mr.E and Pugwest have put up solid results with Marth, top 16ing major events. Meanwhile, Lucina is nowhere to be seen in those higher placings.
Lucas remained one of the more contested characters in terms of raw standard deviation results for v2.0. A handful of votes, notably Midwest opinions, seemed to think rather low of his abilities, generally considering him an inferior Ness who is overall overshadowed by him. Compared to the first tier list, more players have picked him up - however, his current placing is 33rd, just 3 places above his Tier List v1.0 placement.
4BR member @Luco, currently ranked #4 in Australia, gave his own take on Lucas and his current place on the Tier List:
Lucas has had a strange ride to where he's seen in the current meta today. His initital release saw muddied opinions of him as people still clung to him as the inferior Ness; gladly this trend fell off over time and people begun to realise Lucas was his own unique character with his own unique competitive playstyle. That playstyle wasn't immediately clear however - Lucas proved to be a difficult character to use, which may have contributed to his lack of results immediately post-release: People focused too much on playing him as either hyper aggressive or hyper defensive, both of which have some merit but ultimately Lucas fell into a counter-poking archetype, and this appears to be - for now - where his greatest strength lies, in forcing an opponent's approach (which he does in the vast majority of match-ups), then punishing that approach with a wide array of highly safe boxing moves (aerials, specials, Zair, jabs, tilts). This is an obvious contrast to the zone-breaking, grappler playstyle of Ness, and yet many use both PSI kids as secondaries or dual mains.
Lucas, it was predicted by many, would rise to join the ranks of the upper tiers, but no-one really knew where or when that shift would begin. For a long time Lucas' results were heavily carried by Taiheta in Japan with not much else to show for him but more recently we've seen notable wins or results from Kodystri (previously known as Xanos), Mekos, PK Blueberry, Jebb, Hakii, Cheezeballer and more, as well as a positively-trending usage of Lucas with bastions of high-level mains worldwide. Taiheta's performance at EVO rings as a notable stand-out and yet much of Lucas' recent work came at a time where many back-room members were inactive or had already submitted their votes. Additionally, it's still hard to place Lucas based off results alone, and while he appears to have strong MU niches vs high tiers such as Ryu, Bayonetta, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Mario and Ness (he doesn't necessarily win all of these of course), he also has questionable match-ups with characters such as Diddy Kong, Cloud and Greninja.
This I feel has contributed to his current placing at #33 on the current tier list. However with results continuing to trend positively for Lucas and a growing set of mains appearing globally, Lucas' option-rich playstyle is sure to yield more benefits and he is currently looking brightly towards the future.
Dark Pit's standard deviation isn't really what landed him here; it's moreso the fact that, unlike v1.0, he's not next to Pit. The primary reasoning behind this comes from regional differences; Japan believes him to be a much more inferior character to Pit because of poor arrow control, with many Japanese players ranking him multiple tiers lower than his light counterpart. While he was 2 spots next to Pit in the final tier list, Japan's votes placed him 12 spots below Pit.
When it was balanced out with the other votes, Dark Pit was a little over a point behind Pit in the ordered average, and Donkey Kong and Peach filled the gaps.
Perhaps the most intriguing position of all comes from Cloud, ranked #2 on the tier list. While Cloud is noted to have lacked the results during the Summer of Smash (with Mew2King often dropping out to focus on Melee, and Tweek, Komorikiri and more having some results that may not reflect the status of a #2 character), he has stayed relevant at many levels of play. Despite his underwhelming performance in the US, Japan ranked him as #1 with their voters. As of late, more counterplay has been developed to handle this character. While he might stay dominant in doubles, it's likely that he might fall a few places in the list come v3.0 unless a cloudy resurgence arrives.
Mewtwo made quite the impression in 6 months. After being outright blessed by multiple balance patches, Abadango went on to win Pound 2016, giving many players an impression that he was a top threat. And, as it's been seen, more and more players are picking him up, but he hasn't seen much in terms of massive wins beyond Pound as of yet. That didn't stop him from advancing 27 spots compared to v1.0, landing him in the bottom of Top Tier next to Bayonetta.
We hope these explanations have shed some light on to how the release of this list was conducted and some of the more controversial aspects of the list. With the meta of Smash 4 fleshing out and more characters having their true strengths being shown, there is still much to see from this game, patches or no patches. As always, we'll be looking forward to your thoughts in the comments below.
A special thank you to Shaya for providing data, and @Popi, @A10theHero and Diosdi for assisting with the release of this writeup. Translation provided by Diosdi.
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