Ok Pit talk time.
Since the game came out people have referred to the Pits as solid characters with all the tools to win. But if that is the case, why aren't they making a bigger splash? At first glance they seem to be more functional then say Ike another swordsman, but the results don't reflect that.
If you can name me more than 2 active notable Pit mains besides Earth I'll give you a cookie. The character can't get much results if nobody notable plays him. It's the same scenario for Ryu isn't it?
Pits D-tilt is frame 6 and -13 on SHIELD DROP?!? That is abysmal and it only does 6% on hit and leads to no guaranteed follow-ups. Contrast that to say Mewtwo who also has a 6 frame d-tilt but his is -3 on shield drop (crazy) and we get a clearer picture of how under tuned this move really is. Yes it has huge range for a tilt but it is not scary or threatening in anyway. The garbage data doesnt justify how small the reward is for the Pits.
When you compare his dtilt to one of the best in the game of course it's going to look terrible. Admittedly its not the best dtilt but it isn't as useless as you think. It works decently with Pit's moveset, it pops them up into the air where he wants them, and it's not hard to catch most character's landings between dash attack, fsmash, side b, etc (for obvious reasons).
-13 ain't that bad if you actually considered the huge range you said it has. Shield drop is 7 frames that means the opponent has 6 frames to try and punish. How many characters have a move that fast and covers the distance of a spaced dtilt? And then take into account how quick it is, how many people can react to punish it in time if possible in a real game? (insert beefysmashdude's video here).
What about f-tilt? Lots of people felt this was THE poke that all pokes should aspire too. It covers a good amount of space, decent damage, nice start-up time at 10 frames too. However it is also VERY unsafe at -15 on shield drop. It can kill decently well at the ledge. It kills Mario on FD, no DI around 110%. But then you have Ike and Marth. Ike's ftilt is slower at 13 frames but at also safer at -12 and does more shield pushback. Kills a bit earlier. About 5% sooner. Marth's ftilt....lolz. Frame 8. -10 on shield with tipper. Kills at 95% at the ledge of FD. Again Nintendo....I don't get it. Granted Pits ftilt has a ton of range, but that range doesnt do anything to mitigate how unsafe the button is. Its an ok punish, but Pits f-smash has the same start-up so any situation where you could ftilt you could f-smash instead for deadlier results.
It is safe like dtilt when spaced. Admittedly the disjoint itself isn't that big, but Pit leans out then back in when he uses the move, creating alot of space that few if any characters can punish and even then they have an extremely small window to react to it.. No you wouldn't use fsmash in any situation where you would use ftilt. Ftilt lasts 4 frames, longer than both marth and ike's ftilts. It's great for catching people on the ledge (whether it be the normal getup, jump, etc)
safely and is decent poke
. Ftilt can also be used to hipcheck as it pushes people in front of Pit. In Dark Pit's case ftilt sets up into a techchase scenario with the electroshock and guarantees a followup on quite a few characters.....god forbid they chose to roll to the ledge. Fsmash is better for catching landings and for punishes it only lasts 2 frames.
Burst options in neutral is another category they receive praise for. A good dash attack and dash grab keeps foes guessing at mid range. While its true these options are speedy, they are not what I would call scary. D-throw leads to real combos at low percents, but no death conversions. Dash attack is fast and beats alot of stuff, but again it doesnt lead to anything. And of course it isnt safe. If thats the game you want to play, then you could play MK or Captain Falcon. They do that part of the neutral better AND have safer ground buttons.
I wouldn't trade Pit's dash attack for MK's or his dash grab for Falcons. They all use their tools in their own way. Falcon's dash grab is great and all but it would totally screw me up trying to get a dash grab midrange because of how fast he slides/runs. In falcons case it's great because it lets him get in and get it done. He doesn't have disjoints to play it midrange as well as Pit. MK's dash attack is great but Pit would not get nearly as much out of it as MK. I'd rather keep my disjointed dash attack to deal with say....an opponent landing with an aerial.
Ok, well how about aerials? Overall they are solid actually, but Pit has the same problem Marth did before the buffs he got to his nair. Pit lacks flow from his SH air game to his ground game. He has nair and fair as auto cancels which definitely helps, but he cannot suddenly transition from an aerial based offense and go right into grounded mix-ups or pressure. This makes him more predictable. It makes him less threatening.
Fair, Nair, and Bair are all safe on shield when spaced. Bair being -5, Nair and Fair being -6 when perfectly autocancelled (you need to shff). All of these can be spaced outside of shield grab range. Unless you have a frame 5 disjointed OoS option like say, marth you're not punishing this. In nairs case since it doesn't have much range opponents can generally punish it with a jab or something from shield drop but this is where nair's ability to cross people over while still applying shield pressure until Pit lands is really good. I hope I don't have to explain to you the implications behind these stats.
Specials are pretty good. Giving him a well rounded neutral game. He has a projectile, a reflector, and a super armored attack that lets him punish predictability. His projectile however isn't scary. It doesnt set up for anything. It can gimp opponents that are far off stage or annoy opponents that are on stage. That is about it. He cannot keep up constant pressure. His reflector does its job and allows him to stay in the game vs other projectile users. Solid option. But not game changing. Mewtwos reflector doubles as a command grab that does 12%. Something to think about. His side b lets him blow through an option in order to do decent damage. However its not particularly fast, is very unsafe, and doesn't kill well. Though Dark Pit's does kill better then Pit's.
Pit's arrows don't setup into anything?!? This is just wrong, they work extremly well in forcing airdodges offstage and onstage so that Pit can get a followup, if they do hit an opponent the hitstun allows pit to get followups anyway, they are also extremelt helpful in setting up juggles. And then there are mixups with shooting arrows upwards (which have brawl endlag aka none). Transitioning between arrows and moves is exactly how he keeps up constant pressure. You need to fight some better Pits dude, and stop theorycrafting without a proper base. You know what else is something to think about? Pit's reflector blocks attacks allowing him to safely get back to the ground or ledge (there is more to this but I don't feel the need to explain) and when it shatters it cuts the endlag allowing it to act as a pseudo counter. lol "though Dark Pit's does kill better than Pit's" that is an understatement. the move is filthy.
So now onto recovery. Recovery is good as we all know. 3 jumps and a far reaching up b. If the Pit's aren't killed they should always make it back right? Yeah, but not without some broken limbs. See their up b has no hitbox. So its childs play to challenge. The Pit's are pretty easy prey to spike attempts, stage spikes if they mistime a tech and off stage harassment in general. Someone like Cloud can easily smack them with a dair through the stage.
Pit's multiple jumps and super armoured side b are often more than enough to get him back on stage safely. Are there any moves that will launch him from onstage at a low ennough angle such that he has to use his up B? Not many if any.
So when does Pit have to use his up b? Generally after an edgeguard attempt, successful or not you are in no position to harrass him here. I honestly can't think of any other scenarios.
It's not child play to edgeguard a Pit, you say they are good at edgeguarding and this is directly linked to their good offstage presence, with multiple jumps disjointed aerials a super armoured side b, they have quite a few options. It's only if you somehow manage limit them to their UpB are they vulnerable but how would you do that?
IMO the only thing they really excel at is edgeguarding, but they arent even the best at that. Everything else is mediocre. At first glance it seems like they have all these solid tools. But when you inspect the data and then make direct comparisons to other similar tools in other characters arsenals, the Pit's fall short and look weaker and weaker by comparison.
That's because your comparing Pit's tools seperately to the best tools of everyone else, that isn't a fair comparison at all. He's got a decent bit of everything and that's what makes him so solid. If you actually compared him 1 on 1 to certain characters you'll see that they do better than him some areas but worse in others, no character should have the best of everything.
They are the characters you pick to learn the game. Training wheels. They have no flaws that may cause you to lose a match, but they definitely don't have the juice that will help you win or allow you the creativity to develop your personal style. They are not dynamic enough or threatening enough. They have no niche. No trait they are dominant in. No incredible ability that is all their own. No Diddy banana control game, no Sheik godlike neutral and amazing bouncing fish, no ZSS zair and throw game, no Cloud limit system and limit cross slash and yeah.....no Ryu TSRK confirms that kill at ungodly low percents. Even if you think they are good, there are just too many characters that can do what they do, but better/safer/faster/easier. And for me, thats evidence to show they just aren't good enough.
Well you could look at it that way.....I guess.....
but I digress. Imo You don't pick a character to learn the game, You learn a character to play the game. But we are delving into abstract stuff here so I'll just leave it as opinions, not gonna say either is wrong or right. Dynamic is the exact word I'd use to describe them, that is their niche, they have no trait they are dominant in, no incredible ability all to themselves, yes I agree with all that but they have a little of everything which makes them versatile. They don't suck vs campy characters, they don't suck vs rush down characters, they don't suck vs spacies they can deal with everyone quite well because they are versatile.
Sure they aren't threatening but they are extremely solid, someone like DK would be threatening but he's not as solid as Pit and that is what makes them good. They don't need to have powerful tools like TSRK or ding dongs or bouncing fish to be good.
. Am I that crazy in thinking he'd still be pretty crazy? When Sheik is now struggling to kill you at 150%, and now you kill at 90% instead of 70% or something with True Shoryu, it seems that's one combo away from getting them into that percent anyways. Or just connect one Fair/Bair to get that damage lol. 
