Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Baby_Sneak]

Why would anybody think it to be a good a idea to give DHD a kill confirm? His zoning is already very good on top of him having decent mobility and a normal grab. If he had a kill confirm he would undoubtedly be oppressive in a various match-ups.

Apparently the hitboxes on his smashes are unreliable; that's the only thing i would fix/adjust.

Depends on how strong it is. I just want duck hunt to be properly rewarded for his efforts.

 

[outfoxd]

Rob has comparable zoning to DH with a grab game and higher functioning smashes.

Granted DH has an odd, mobile zoning playstyle instead of walling an area but his recovery makes it he to keep up.

DHes keep placing in top 5 though so maybe i should shut up.

 

[John12346]

This is something about the updates in regards to nerfs that I've been mentioning to people IRL, but I figure you guys might appreciate my thoughts, too.

Ever since we started receiving updates, I've been thinking about nerfs to 'problematic' characters with a specific dichotomy: 'Stuff that SHOULD be nerfed,' and 'Stuff that NEEDS to be nerfed.'

The former describes rather dumb things present in the game, such as Luma Uair KB, etc. that I'm sure no one but the mains of said character would object to if they suddenly went missing. It's basically all the regular stuff you see on people's wishlists when they're talking about nerfs.

The latter, however, describes tools of a character that serve as such an overwhelming advantage over the rest of the cast, that it heavily threatens the balance and health of the game. As of 1.1.4, the only thing that fell into that criteria for me was Sheik as a character, primarily for all 3 of her tools that got nerfed in 1.1.5. A character like Sheik, who possessed an overwhelming advantaged state, the ability to escape disadvantaged states with ease, and no clear weaknesses definitely fit the bill for something that NEEDED to be nerfed, at least in my eyes. A character like that could easily put a chokehold on the metagame. Why pick anyone else, right?

Anyway, my point is, with the 1.1.5 update, I firmly believe that there's nothing more in the game that actually requires a nerf in order to maintain the good health of the game. And I am VERY excited about this, because it means that we'll be able to push the metagame forward by a large degree, since there isn't a single character who threatens to hold it back, like Meta Knight did to Brawl, for example. I was expecting this update to be the last balance patch, but now that we're seeing news about 1.1.6, we finally have an update where I can look on with enthused amusement, rather than worrying about whether or not they're going to tone down the most prevalent threat to the game at the moment.
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I hate extreme characters

*has a picture of Gon as their sig*

This, I found to be very funny~

 

[Pancracio17]

some of these bayo nerfs are kinda extreme, if you make abk and wt not combo into each other you basically kill the char.
I do agree with damage output nerfs and divekick not launching so high to the point of 0-deathing everyone, maybe even more lag in her landing specials and less knockback on aerials.

 

[Ninety]

How big can we expect the changes to be? It's smaller than 1.1.5, right? I hope they thought the changes through.

Anyway, I believe that with the 1.1.5 meta, if no top tiers other than Bayonetta got nerfed, the meta would end in a very good place indeed. I just hope that they focus in bringing up the mid/low/bottom tiers.

 

[KamikazePotato]

Shulk's 'extreme' nature is being really overstated here. Corrin outranges him on everything except bair and Corrin has much better frame data. Shulk really only needs minor to moderate frame data buffs and he would be in a healthy spot.

1.1.5 is a good meta, but every patch has been better than the last so I have faith in the balance team. They know what they're doing.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Though Mewtwo whining isn't that loud, it's still there. (I see you on twitter KuroganeHammer )

Not gonna lie, it'd be pretty sad to see him nerfed after having this wave of success. It was a good run.

And no, Sakurai, I still haven't forgiven you for nerfing greninja! Please, continue giving me buffs to make up for your mistake. Once you give me a wave shine, I'll consider moving on

Nothing I said has been untrue tho, Mewtwo is disgusting atm.

He has so many unnecessarily good moves, like, why does fair combo into itself but also have more knockback than say Dedede's dsmash?

Abadango hit Mr R with a nair at 60% and he died for it extremely comfortablely, patch that **** yo.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Anyone else also getting the feeling this is possibly going to be the final patch as well? I believe it's safe to assume that it is being released almost definitely in part due to the controversy surrounding Bayonetta, and after that they'll have effectively "cleaned up" all the DLC characters, (not inclufing the minor nerfs Bayonetta got in 1.1.5, of course.) I'm also personally hoping that some of the more overlooked yet notably flawed characters, (namely , , , , , (well, mainly his grab,) , and of course ,) will finally receive some actual notably good tuning. There are other characters that I think deserve buffs too, but for this lot to either be left with only a few QOL changes or in Dedede's case, unwarranted nerfs, would leave me with a bad taste in my mouth by the end of this game's balance cycle.

...Holy ****, I'm actually starting to look toward patches for closure. The balance team has spoiled me, maybe I should go back and play some Brawl for perspective.



To be fair, can you name one character so far that they've truly gutted? The closest cases I can think of are Luigi, Meta Knight, and Greninja directly following 1.0.4, but I think this was more due to the fact that all these characters were relatively reliant one one or two very overtuned tools as opposed to being characters with a consistently powerful kit.

Link and his jab 1 cancels. It was only option in CQC (basically just a confirm into UTilt/kill moves) and then got gutted because of "infinites". They eventually gave us a kill mixup after Jab 2, but it really isn't the same at all (mostly because jump generally gets you out of harm's way).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Diddy item throw startup increased. Dtilt startup increased.
Luma Uair and Dair BKB decreased. Luma Jab 3 end lag increased.
Grounded Witch Twist KB angle decreased to 10 degrees. Fair 1/2 end lag increased and can only be canceled into the remaining Fair hits. ABK startup increased to match Heel Slide's.
Cloud Dair end lag increased. Nair startup increased. Limit Break duration mechanic edited to match Little Mac's KO Punch duration mechanic. Double jump and full hop height decreased.

We get something along those lines, and I think the high-tier meta would experience a huge shift. There would be other things I'd like, like Ryu's Bair not doing 15% and Fair not being the size of Sri Lanka, but those would be the big, immediately-effective changes, I would imagine.

So basically you want Ryu to be a non-threat in neutral.

Gotcha.

 

[KamikazePotato]

I'd more or less be okay with Ryu if they reduced the Shoryu knockback. Ryu is a strong character but he's a lot less frustrating to fight than the other DLC characters.

 

[SubconsciousRose]

Shulk's 'extreme' nature is being really overstated here. Corrin outranges him on everything except bair and Corrin has much better frame data. Shulk really only needs minor to moderate frame data buffs and he would be in a healthy spot.

1.1.5 is a good meta, but every patch has been better than the last so I have faith in the balance team. They know what they're doing.

Um
I may not be very familiar with Shulk but I am fairly certain that Shulk out ranges Corrin with fair/uair(vertically)/utilt/dtilt/ftilt and maybe other moves

A lot of moves definitely have comparable/close ranges I would say such as their smash attacks and bair.

But saying Corrin outranges Shulk on near every front is definitely not true.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Corrin outranges [Shulk] on everything except bair.

Do we have source on this? Their range is comparable, but I'm pretty sure Shulk still wins out overall, save FSmash.

If you just meant FSmash outranges Shulk's kit...that's oversimplifying things.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[ARISTOS]

Yeah I'm expecting changes from now to be more quality of life fixes than large shake-ups.
getting reworked wouldn't surprise me though tbh

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't see many buffs happening... They probably don't want to undo something again like with Bowser. Doubt anybody remotely mid tier is going to get anything bigger then a minor QoL buff. Remember this is possibly our last patch, and the previous one didn't buff much besides Zard and Dorf.

Nerfs to Bayo and Cloud are basically a given, with nerfs to Sonic, Rosalina, Diddy, Sheik, and ZSS looking likely. Mewtwo may also get nerfed, though because he has an infinite more then anything else IMO. Also heard the old Peach infinite was still possible to some capacity, and then MK's ladder still works on some characters so they could be getting tweaks as well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm expecting Corrin's Side B to get a nerf in some way. There's no way that move isn't causing problems in For Glory, and it just gets spammed constantly at tournaments. They seem to not like it when a character overly relies on one move. Either its start up or its safety afterwards when it hits a shield. And maybe mobility again just because.

Mewtwo will get nerfed in some way to remove the infinity. Dem be the breaks.

Bayo doesn't even need mentioning. Expecting a pretty heavy blow from the nerf bat. Cloud will get another minor tap.

Beyond that mostly QoL.

 

[Gunla]

Patch Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-6-patch-notes-placeholder.436806/
Discussion Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/roundabout-1-1-6-patch-discussion.436807/

Both are currently locked and are placeholders. When the update is live, discussion thread for the patch will open. I recommend watching both threads.

 

[Nekoo]

Balance Patch are like Christmas. You wait for it just to open the gift. Some are disapointed but you can always say that there will be another christmas. (Or at least for now for the balance patch. We don't know when they'll stop)

 

[Nemesis561]

It would be nice if could get a few buffs, just a few things off the top of my head would be

-Shave a few frames off of start up on his grab
-Make it so it isn't so easy to fall out of his rapid jab
-Make it so that jab 2 doesn't have so much cool down (seriously, you're like just frozen for 60~ frames or so afterwards, so it's unusable as a mix up)
--Shave a few frames off of the cool down on down B
-This is probably greedy but maybe fix down throw so you can get a guaranteed follow up at certain %s
-This is also probably greedy but maybe a kill throw?? Back throw is ok ish at killing I guess...

Honestly bowser Jr gets no reward off of grabs besides some damage and positional advantage.... If he got his grab game buffed he could be pretty dam good with the pressure he would create...

The last 2 buff ideas might be greedy but the first 3 I think would really be fair and help him out quite a bit

 

[Y2Kay]

You can get rid of the infinite without touching his Mewtwo's Neutral Air. All you have to do is make sure Disable has the same limitations as ZSS paralyzer. Problem Solved.

And lol that is literally the worst infinite I've ever seen. A single rep in the infinite does a measly 4%. Considering how tough it can be to pull of a single Nair foot stool disable. There is a reason the infinite is NEVER used in tournament lol.

Besides patching out the infinite (that no one even uses), Mewtwo nerds aren't really that justified, considering the 8 or so characters that deal just as much destruction as he does WITHOUT running as much risk.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I really do hope they drop the patch tonight. Now im just sitting here really wanting this patch to be thrown upon us.

Fingers crossed it comes out tonight considering how we had server maintenance yesterday.

 

[Mario766]

Peach infinite did 4 per rep too, and had the same style of difficulty.

Staling makes Peach infinite do 2 damage, so you'd literally have to do 50 of them to get anywhere near kill percent.

 

[LancerStaff]

You can get rid of the infinite without touching his Mewtwo's Neutral Air. All you have to do is make sure Disable has the same limitations as ZSS paralyzer. Problem Solved.

Not possible I'm afraid... That particular quirk is built into the stun effect. Disable just makes people dizzy and then you can hit them, while stun will eventually launch somebody. Actually if ZSS had Mewtwo's Nair and Disable's frame data on Paralyzer I'm pretty sure it'd still be an infinite because you're hitting them with Nair and reseting it.

 

[Blue Banana]

I hope that the patch fixes some problems Olimar has with some of his moves, mainly:

- His grabs having a dead zone. The initial frame for all of his grabs is frame 10, but from the looks of the linked video and my personal experience, the Pikmin moves out just a little before the grab hitbox becomes active. It's not necessarily a problem for pivot grabs, but I do remember a fair amount of times where I whiff a dash grab at point blank, and the linked video kind of shows why it turns grab OoS an okay option to a risky one for Olimar.

- Some weird glitch with his UpB. Basically what happens is that if Olimar starts an aerial out of UpB but gets hit out of it (like within the first 5 frames), the next time he does an aerial he'll immediately go into a free fall state. Unfortunately, I can't find a video showing this glitch.

Of course, some minor buffs would help him be a bit more competitive (making Pikmin stop clanking with nearly everything is out of the window at this point though), but given that he didn't get any changes for the last few patches and he's been making some results in recent tournaments (even as a secondary), I'd be okay if they just fix what I noted above.

EDIT: Do want to say that a minor buff that I'd appreciate would be knockback changes to purple Dsmash. Purple Pikmin always deal the most knockback with every Pikmin attack thanks to the 1.4 damage multiplier, but for some reason it doesn't apply to Dsmash, where despite dealing more damage than red Dsmash, its knockback is nearly the same as reds.

 

[ZSaberLink]

In terms of moves not working, for Link I'd just fix Grounded Up-B. (They've been pretty good about fixing his Aerial Up-B multihit and USmash multihit). If Link's near the ledge and you use the grounded up B and the opponent is shielding, Link just falls off the stage and dies. Also personally I'd make the later hitboxes more consistent. The initial one close to Link is nice and is the kill move, but the rest after a couple frames are like taps on the shoulder at best. In addition, you can just powershield/shield one of the hits and then the rest of the hits simply ignore the opponent, which is kind of weird.

 

[GeneralLedge]

RE: Mewtwo: idk if he really needs nerfing when I feel like a majority of his strengths come down to responsiveness, where a majority of other character weaknesses come down to the lack thereof. I'm not a particularly strong player, but I have a lot more fun using Mewtwo than I do using, say, D3 (which is odd because I used to like using D3), and a lot of it boils down to the character doing what I want when I want them to.

This might be partly to do with speed, lag, follow-ups, and comparing the two on those fronts is frivolous when they have different intended game plans, but where Mewtwo has a ton of build-your-own-string scenarios and methods to 'get in' in neutral, D3's better tools are double-edged, easy to mess up, and not as rewarding. And I see combo videos with really cool looking advanced techs with someone like D3, but I never actually find a situation to correctly utilize them. Perhaps I'm intended to engineer my own situations, but the tools given to do so render it difficult in my inexperience, where Mewtwo's do not.

And the irony is, in this example, I'm not sure what I'd "improve" about D3 that would "help" these scenarios be engineered more fluidly. Maybe I'm just really bad or doing it wrong.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I'd more or less be okay with Ryu if they reduced the Shoryu knockback. Ryu is a strong character but he's a lot less frustrating to fight than the other DLC characters.

Really? I personally think he's one of the more annoying characters with his 4000 confirms into TRSK. Maybe that's cause I play Fox and that MU isn't the best. It feels like so many of his moves have obscene amounts of % (bair 16%, fair 15%, bthrow 12%, FA1 12%, FA2 10%, FA3 17%) and because of this, a lot of his stuff is safe on shield (or damn close to it). With that said I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with him. A few damage nerfs would be nice but other than that he's fine. Though I would still play against just about any other DLC character over him (besides Bayo).

 

[Macedonian]

There was Ike discussion a few pages back and I actually feel like this is somthing I can chime in on.

Realistically Ike could very easily be left behind in the meta since cloud exist and Marths meta is advancing all the time. I mean we can already loon at the data from the last few weeks to see Ike was one of the 16 charachters not to place on the recent season of results. Ryuga basically dropped Ike for Corrin, Ryo plays a buch of Corrin and Ike as well. This leaves us with San being the only player to get solid results with two top eights recently, but man watching San vs Larry lur or ally is just painful.

I'm not as pessimistic as rango about Ike, but he is not solo viable, with that in mind I think it would be fair to say he could use a buff or two

If it were me I would buff his recovery, honestly every good player I play murders me offstage. Counter kills us brutally, we can be spiked from the top, no hitbox on the back side. Side b is rough to since projectiles can eat up as well as just charachters running into it. Buffing the charging time, allowing side b to up b, making Ike grab the ledge backwords would all be really nice.

Come to think of it having a quick side B and not going into free fall Would Make his susceptibility to cloud, fox, and the like juggles a have a little more counter play but I'm dreaming at this point.

Ok back to being realistic, all I really think needs is a little less startup on Uptilt and ftilt and Nair would be fantastic and maybe help us out to get or of being overshadowed by cloud.

 

[bc1910]

I'm expecting Cloud to get hit with the nerf bat, Rosalina to get a tap, and Bayo to get knocked out of the park.

It would be nice to see some of the characters that have fallen by the wayside to get buffs. Bowser Jr, Jigglypuff and Falco would be top of my list. I personally think Roy is okay as he is, if we're lining up a character that fast + strong to be one of the worst in the game then I'm pretty satisfied with the game balance overall.

I wouldn't say I'm hoping for Mewtwo nerfs, but I wouldn't be opposed to them. Like, if someone offered me some lettuce I'd turn it down, but if they threw it in with a burger + fries I'd be fine with it. I think his speed/power/safety ratio is out of kilter with the rest of the cast now, and his weakness (big frame + light weight) doesn't balance him as well as it did because he's so much more slippery and hard to hit.

I'll be hoping for more Greninja buffs, which is greedy since he doesn't need them (and besides useless QoL buffs there's not much more you could do without making him definitively top tier), but I'm not expecting them.

Ike doesn't need any buffs either, by the way.

 

[Blue Banana]

In terms of moves not working, for Link I'd just fix Grounded Up-B. (They've been pretty good about fixing his Aerial Up-B multihit and USmash multihit). If Link's near the ledge and you use the grounded up B and the opponent is shielding, Link just falls off the stage and dies.

I think they should do something about Little Mac going into free fall after touching the ground with sideB but getting pushed off by windboxes, like make him stick to the stage after landing on it. This issue with Link just reminded me about this problem with Mac.

 

[BunbUn129]

To think we would eventually be considering possible nerfs to Mewtwo of all characters. The game has come a long way. Just a thought.

~~~~

Right now the only characters who are problematic enough to deserve nerfs IMO are Bayonetta and Cloud. I honestly don't see a reason to nerf Sheik or Diddy; they are indeed amazing characters, but that can be attributed mostly to how well-knit their kits are and less so to being overtuned. A character being fantastic doesn't automatically warrant a nerf unless a problematic aspect of their design is causing it or is at least playing a role in their success (eg pre-nerf MK and Luigi).

Sheik and Diddy function as intended and have clear-cut weaknesses (Sheik's KOing issues and being somewhat vulnerable to rage, and Diddy's recovery, susceptibility to combos, and his Banana play being a potential threat to himself). It just so happens that the game engine favors the play styles of Sheik and Diddy.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

This patch is hyping me up, but the nerfs may happen. If this patch is as major as the last, this might be another turning point completely changing the meta. However, I feel like it won't do that much, so I don't know why we are getting so hype.

 

[sedrf]

Patches are fine and great, but the community's reliance on patches as a means to get over problems they are too lazy to solve is not.
-Esam
Reminder from esam

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike doesn't need any buffs either, by the way.

Straight up buffs? Probably not (though decent chance of getting them still because Japan still hates Ike). Ryo is still primarily using Ike (just a few weeks ago he had a major result recorded with solo Ike, Corrin seems to be getting shoved into the "random secondary" pile Ryo has), San does good work. Rango.... uhhhh.... well he's improving a bit at least. Ike is solo viable. Uphill battle yes, but its doable.

But Ike without a doubt has some QoL level issues that should be looked at. The sourspot on his Usmash is just... why? Why have it? Its the slowest Usmash in the game, underpowered for its speed, and then a random sourspot for the one hitbox that could be particularly useful. They fixed up Fsmash a bit before, lets fix that one now.

Aether as well, has this weird spot at the back where you can literally be inside of Ike and not taking damage as he's spinning with sword in hand. Expand the hitbox so it covers that part.

Make his Uthrow combos more consistent. Basically that means tinkering with the damage and knockback stuff so the range is roughly the same as it is now, but more, well consistent. Fair is consistent, Uair is kinda finicky with rage.

If anything should get a straight up buff its Quick Draw. Too weak for the amount of recovery it has, sometimes you can punish it on hit even. Either less recovery on swing or more damage and thus hitstun.

 

[Vycoul]

Patches are fine and great, but the community's reliance on patches as a means to get over problems they are too lazy to solve is not.
-Esam
Reminder from esam

Pikachu is fine and great, but thinking he is God is not.
-Everyone else

Seriously though, I don't see THAT many absurd nerf/buff wishlists. I don't think whining about whining is warranted very often. (Not saying ESAM is whining, just coming off as a little "holier than thou")
Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Nothing I said has been untrue tho, Mewtwo is disgusting atm.

He has so many unnecessarily good moves, like, why does fair combo into itself but also have more knockback than say Dedede's dsmash?

Abadango hit Mr R with a nair at 60% and he died for it extremely comfortablely, patch that **** yo.

I still find posts like this borderline surreal given Mewtwo was borderline comically craptastic in the canon for a solid 14 years until he magically got gud thanks to Sakurai's sometimes hedonistic approach to patches.

Onto the patch announcement, if it's like the others, they'll probably focus on 6-7 characters getting noteworthy buffs and nerfs with 2-3 getting minor buffs that insult everyone's intelligence and/or rub salt in the wound when it comes to certain character's weaknesses.

My predictions:
Noteworthy buffs:
Noteworthy nerfs:
Buffs that are virtually pointless:

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I hope they don't patch out the modding capabilities. I want a true brawl successor.

If it can't be broken in, it's not a true successor.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

I see why people have high on the Nerf list, however the nerfs don't match up to results shown. Dabuz did not make top 8 at Pound, and some of her only noteworthy results recently was Jaice and falln getting Top 8 at BAM and LVL Up Expo. Also, she has two grueling matchups vs and, one where people are on the fence about and the other is a noteworthy threat in the meta. The main issue of the duo is Luma, and rage. Yes Rage helps characters be good like , but many jank kills that people complain about come from that. I am by no means saying is a bad character, but I don't think she needs drastic nerfs(nerfs yet, but I have seen people copletely rework her playstyle with certain changes.) I know my last post said she will be nerfed, but I was thinking more of a minor nerf when I posted that. That is all for now

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

I still find posts like this borderline surreal given Mewtwo was borderline comically craptastic in the canon for a solid 14 years until he magically got gud thanks to Sakurai's sometimes hedonistic approach to patches.

Onto the patch announcement, if it's like the others, they'll probably focus on 6-7 characters getting noteworthy buffs and nerfs with 2-3 getting minor buffs that insult everyone's intelligence and/or rub salt in the wound when it comes to certain character's weaknesses.

My predictions:
Noteworthy buffs:
Noteworthy nerfs:
Buffs that are virtually pointless:

the most important buffs are the Kirby smash attack buffs
Seriously though, what the hell is up with them just randomly buffing Kirby's smashes every other patch? He already has a frame 13 fsmash that kills at 90%

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Diddy item throw startup increased. Dtilt startup increased.
Luma Uair and Dair BKB decreased. Luma Jab 3 end lag increased.
Grounded Witch Twist KB angle decreased to 10 degrees. Fair 1/2 end lag increased and can only be canceled into the remaining Fair hits. ABK startup increased to match Heel Slide's.
Cloud Dair end lag increased. Nair startup increased. Limit Break duration mechanic edited to match Little Mac's KO Punch duration mechanic. Double jump and full hop height decreased.

We get something along those lines, and I think the high-tier meta would experience a huge shift. There would be other things I'd like, like Ryu's Bair not doing 15% and Fair not being the size of Sri Lanka, but those would be the big, immediately-effective changes, I would imagine.

Does diddy really need to be nerfed again? Dtilt is pretty damn good, but keep in mind it is just a tilt and can only be used when stationary or walking, limiting your options to basically out of roll, spotdodge, or walk up. It's not like you can just approach and apply pressure with it like a dash attack or a rising aerial. Banana is equally ridiculous, but banana counterplay is so underdeveloped atm and high level play results in many banana steals in just one stock. If you're going to nerf those things, you might as well nerf any really good option in this game, like fox utilt, mario usmash, zss bair...

All of the things I just mentioned are good, but not game breaking like witch twist, 0TD ladder combos, etc.

 

[ZSaberLink]

@Das Koopa - I think your ranking chart is missing Northwest Majors VIII? I'm pretty sure there were over 100 competitors there.

Also personally this is what I would think to be reasonable for a patch.

Nerf Bayonetta's 0 to Death combos in some way. Probably reduce UAir knockback, and increase SDI multiplier. Could nerf startup of Witch Twist. Maybe also make Witch Time not work on projectiles (mainly for Olimar's sake lol).

Buff Jigglypuff... she just needs it.

Cloud - Reduce safety of Limit Cross-Slash. Either increase the ending lag and/or get rid of the weird invincibility at the beginning.

Ryu - Reduce the knockback on True Shoryu a bit. For an attack that has reasonable confirms into it, it shouldn't kill quite as early as it does. Probably should kill closer to 100-110% than like 60-70%. It seems overtuned since that's mostly what I see Ryus kill with.

Fix some of the jank hitboxes on Rosaluma. DAir's hitbox that hits characters to the side just seems weirdly powerful (I remember ESAM's Pika flying reasonably close to the blastzone at 27% from it). Maybe make some of them just a bit weaker, nothing too drastic.

Fix hitboxes that just don't connect or clearly fail to do what they're supposed to do and buffs to low tiers are always appreciated.

I think Diddy & Sheik are fine to be honest. They're really good, but they have weaknesses now, which is good.